Thank you, I very much appreciate learning the simple things that can be done on a lathe. I don't have a lathe yet and have never used one but the more I watch you the more of an itch I get
As the book that started me off said "Lathes are great". The lathe really is the fundamental machine tool and there are so many things you can do with one.
I really enjoy your narrative and the quality of your work. I am not a machinist, never used a metal lathe and as such I am in awe of the methematical prowess it takes. Unfortunately I am 73 so cannot now change careers. I have had my turn. Keep up the excellent videos.
73 is not all that bad of a point to start learning something new. That's the age I was when I bought my lathe. I also have a mill and tool grinder. Between the 3 of them they provide plenty of mental challenges to keep me active. I repair things and make stuff just to see if I can.
It's just one of those benefits of being a machinist for so long, you've got all sorts of tools that make certain jobs just a little but easier. As for people looking to get one of these for their own shop, it's probably an easy enough job to just make one.
When I use a split die I put the split under the middle setscrew tighten that to hold the die open, the secure with the two outside screws. After that operation I then back the centre screw out and retighten the outer screws to cut the true thread size
You are a machinist. Make it yourself! I made mine from 4" length of 1 1/2" round stock center bored to slide over a 1/2" rod chucked in the tailstock drill chuck. It has a different dia. on each end to hold 2 different die sizes. I made mine with a short handle so I can feel the pressure of the cut and let the tool spin when I finish the thread. I don't have to worry about stopping the lathe in just the right place. 3/8" would be the biggest size I would use this tool on.
If you want to thread to a shoulder the easiest way ist to remove that pin, on such small thread you can just hold it by hand, as far as I know they are designed to be used by hand most of the time
If the customer specified a half an inch why wouldn’t you bother to go exactly a half an inch? It’s just possible the customer knows what he’s talking about.
Even with this I'd add some thread relief, so you avoid having those half cut threads right next to the shoulder. That way you can screw anything right up to the shoulder without it jamming. Not sure if running the die backwards could damage it. Either way some relief would be recommended.
You're right, if you notice he still didn't get the practice nut up to the shoulder. That tool was very extensively used in the screw machine business when the machines were actuated by cams. I know because I'm of that age and older than necessary to have used them. My dad who was in that trade for many many years was totally very familiar.
@@milantrcka121 Yes, he was correct in using the die the way he did, but he still couldn't get the practice nut all the way up to the shoulder. He should have machined a small relief groove just before the shoulder to allow the nut to go clear to the shoulder.
Thanks Keith. I'm glad you went ahead and made this one. It answered several questions for me. One, I have long wondered about running a thread die backwards -- didn't know if there was some mysterious reason why you shouldn't.... Also, I want to shop for one of those devices, like you have. Always love new gadgets. Thanks for all your good videos. You always get an A+ in my book. Bob (Jacksonville, FL)
My shop teacher said if you're threading to a shoulder, you should take your thinnest parting tool and undercut a little thread relief. (And if you're not cutting with a die, he said to put the lathe in back gears and thread outward - less opportunity for drama). I'm sure you know more than my shop teacher, though. (And you surely know more than I do!) So where have I gone wrong?
Most tailstock die holders don't float or slide like this one. They just hold the die rigidly so you advance the tailstock manually or unlock the tailstock a bit so it can slide. If you made the floating kind that's pretty cool, I might give that a try.
@@c0mputer yep as you say a floating one, just my name for it i turned a Morse taper for the tailstock rest turned down to 10mm so the holder can slide on it, don't use it much as i prefer to single point threads. but its handy for little stuff
Oh that makes sense, I got a bunch of machinist tools from my Grandfather and there were 2 or 3 of these in there and I couldn't figure out what they were for lol (edit: mine are tap holders)
when do you use the metal saw and when would you use a band saw or a big one like abom79 with coolant. what are the plus and minus of each way . ps thanks ahead of time
Production tip: use single point threading method to get threads exactly where you want them, then use die to quickly cut last few thousandths to proper depth.
Hi Keith, nice job. It can be even easier by not moving the tail stock and just letting the die holder move back and forth. You may have a reason for not doing that so I will apologies in advance if I missed something.
I bought one of those a few months ago to do something similar. It worked quite well. If you are ordering one, be aware there are non-floating and floating types. Like Keith, I had bought the floating type.
I'd KILL to have that type threading attachment to my tailstock to my Unimat as the Unimat Lathe is belt driven NO half nut or thread cutting gears to make it single point thread! SO, I'm JEALOUS! I MAY make a tailstock attachment to do just what this bigger version does, seems pretty straight forward to make, to fit my mini machine!
Obviously off topic but I don't think the phrase "rpm's" is correct assuming you mean rotation(-s) per minute.. Everything above 1 rotation per minute (the "rpm) should be named rotations per minute or r'spm (to be pronounced as 'arspee-em).
Keith has made a mistake in his threading operation. To be fair, it is a mistake most people make. If you look in your favorite reference book you will see that the major diameter for a 3/8"-16 thread is NOT 0.375" . The major diameter of all 60 degree threads, metric or inch, is less than the nominal diameter. This matters because if you thread from the nominal diameter then your Go-NoGo gage won't go onto the work even if the pitch diameter is correct. The crest of the thread will be interfering with the root of the thread in the gage. Running a threading die over the work obscures this fault. But it does make the die noticeably more difficult to run onto the work because it has to cut the full thread profile. If single pointing a thread what happens is that if doing general purpose work and using the mating part for a gage instead of thread wires or Go-NoGo gage you end up with a sharp crest by the time the parts will fit up. Then when you de-burr the thread your nice fit suddenly is sloppy because you've cut the pitch diameter undersize.
Mine doesn't have the key; you hand hold it from spinning. You can go a bit faster and when you hit the shoulder you just let go, or if it grabs you can just let go. Probably better for 1/4" or below. It does have a Tommy bar if you can't hold the knurl by hand for larger sizes.
well it's a lathe ru-vid.comUgkxN9zrzkkhnjUF5PQbuA_B1gYdsfCu9k6z but it wasn't what i would have anticipated. Headstock, tailstock, carriage apron are manufactured from aluminum now not cast iron. The spindle diameter for the bearings is too small allowing for a few play in the spindle so I am using some blue Loctite to take out the play.
Interesting that he does work for other people while constantly apologizing for how long it takes for him to work on his own stuff (which is what the channel is about).
Oh dear, it looks like all the ol' grumpy's are out and about today,....you'll complain even more, when those who put their videos on youtube, decide that it's not worth the grief.... and there is always more than one way to skin a cat.
Somebody help me here. It appears to me he was not taking advantage of the pinned slot when he was manually feeding the die with the tailstock. It's very obvious he was doing this as the pin stayed in it original location the whole time and you can see the tailstock being hand wheeled in. What's the purpose of using a "floating" tailstock die holder if you are going to manually feed the die. Also I thought from Keith talking up the short distance and the shoulder that the die holder would free spin when it hit the shoulder. I didn't see that advantage when it hit the shoulder and spun the work piece. Couldn't see how it would do that either. Operator still had to be concerned with the die crashing into the shoulder.
I'm used to those holders, just without that locknut. U have to hold it by hand, yea a bit of force is needed, but u can't break sth when going right to the shoulder
Single point threading up to a shoulder is risky because if you allow the cutter to contact the shoulder by being late disengaging the half nut, disengaging the half nut is difficult and could damage the half nut.
The part that was supposed to be floating wasn't floating with the first side. It pulled the morse taper out instead and the tang was keeping it from rotating.
Big thumbs up to you Keith. But no need to go to eBay for one of those tools - I used 10 minutes to make my own years ago, and it does an excellent job. Being double sided, it uses both common sizes of dies, just like the one Blondiehacks made recently.
Easier to do with a regular die holder, then all you need to do is turn the die holder around to thread up against the shoulder. Notice your lathe motor has a really long wind down before you can reverse.
That stock was still 0.508 after you cleaned it up, wasn't it? What if the customer actually had a 0.500 or .503 hole? I know that, when I buy some tool steels (S1, for instance) that they make it about 10 thou oversize to allow for for decarb, but I wouldn't think you'd need that for this job.
Making one of those floating die holders will be on my short list for sure when I get my lathe set up again. I don't understand some people's fear of and/or distaste for single point threading though, honestly. It's one of my favorite operations on my lathe! Granted I was a USAF machinist so that was a huge part of our day-to-day routine, but still...the average home machinist can easily do it with very little practice. Grab a machinery's handbook and a chunk of scrap aluminum and give it a whirl. It's a really fun process.
I very rarely single point anything due to cba messing with change gears. my big lathe uses a quick change gearbox so when thats up and running Ill do a lot more thread cutting
@@samec88 I can totally understand that. My Logan lathe started out as an 1805 (change gear machine), and single point threading can be a royal PITA when you have to rip the whole gear train apart to set it up correctly for one single operation. I ended up adding a quick change gearbox (and changing out the lead screw, carriage assembly, support bushing, etc to make it all work - essentially converted it to a model 1815) and now threading is a much easier process, as is dialing in different feed rates. Wasn't a cheap or easy way to go because I spent nearly a year searching for all of the parts to do it poperly, but 100% worth it for the massive increase in usability.
pijnto, it would keep the die square and true to the pieces that you’re cutting threads on, wouldn’t it? How did it not cut right for you? Just interested in the subject.
Interesting video. Die threading the way the die is made for I know. Turning the die "backwards" to make some more threads I've seen a number of times. However some reputated Tuber, don't remember who, pointed out that the die usually/normally/???? doesn't have any edge for cutting that way. It obviously work..... Comments from people knowing more?
The Metal Devil is not just a bastard for metal; it cut's your ears too... Not exactly a machine for a (precision?) workshop... Imagine I'm trying to get my e.g. grinding set-up right within a micron (that's 0,001 mm or 3,93^10-5 inch for all the Imperial folks) and than Joe Blow started the Metal Devil; I'm meters off... (or +39 inches). That's no help, that is the Devil ruining your relation with your coworkers, the intended accuracy and the neighbourhood... If this is a promotional piece; I understand. If it's not; stop ruining your ears and use a bandsaw or an old skool humpty-dumpty powered hack saw. It's a miracle your microphone survived this.... Joking here but I still don't understand the use of this weapon. It's like shooting duck with a tank... One other tip; I use a floating a tap holder too when it's ok for the work. But one thing, major in my opinion, I have removed the stopping pin and hold it with my hand until it touches the shoulder and release it (or loose a limp). Your approach asks for a correct stop for your machine otherwise it ruins your thread or other damage happens... For me the wrong way of doing things. Looking for this kind of tool; look for the brand Akon. Not cheap but will last you a lifetime. OK, enough criticism, thank you Keith for all your fine content! Best, Job
Die drivers are a great tool! As long as you don't run the die into a shoulder. Ask me how I know. LOL Thing go sideways REALLY fast when you do and it tears things up bad. One plus about single pointing, you might break the insert and tear up the part a little but you'll be OK otherwise.
"Clickspring" made one of these a few years back. See ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MmGzzZEFSJU.html His design double ended (different sized dies in each end) but does require a bit of machining to make. Still, if you have a lathe......
Keith, I checked a number of the regular suppliers and did not find anyone who carried a similar device. However a somewhat similar version was listed on EBay. This might make a simple and interesting project for a future video!
A necking undercut would save the time needed to recut the bottom of threads with the die reversed. I use a spring loaded tension compression type in the CNC lathe to do longer small threads and not have to fight part deflection - like a #8-32 thread 1½ long.
I get a bit nervous about these die holders. Even if you can see exactly where the front edge of the die is, most machines don’t stop immediately. They don’t have that brake. If not, the die will pull in after you stop the machine, and it will crash. Unfortunately, it’s impossible to determine how much the rotation will continue. It depends on the speed, material, the diameter, the threads, etc. So turning the lathe by hand is still required. I like floating die holders that themselves turn so you can do it manually.
I once had to make a floating, adjustable and telescopic handled die holder(allowing both machine and manual control as sprungd handles extended to allow hand torque application) as an apprentice to get my first job in a machine shop as a novice!! I also had to design it too! Turned out well and the shop paid me the equivalent of an over the couter cheap die stock - Loved the job for 18months, and the experience/knowledge, but my bad back(ciatica) hated it, even with duck boards!!! Ps. Threads to a shoulder are best done in reverse screw threading, as you can get the form nice and tight, all the way to the shoulder(no die lead ins, etc). Keep on, keeping on.......
Problem today seems to be every time I buy a die it comes in a different shape and sized circumference. Some of the smaller sizes are ridiculously small outer diameters. I have to have a drawer full of adapters and even then it seems I often don't have the right one..
The Shed Dweller prototyped an automatic thread tool retracting device for single pointing at high rpm. Well worth looking at. So are his other tool builds. Big Mona(rch) is looking kind of lonely. Hope you can showcase her at work sometime soon.
7:05 Did you have the lathe jaws loose so it would slip when the die bottomed out? How did you get it tight enough so it would cut but loose enough so it wouldn't break the die?
This video was very timely for me, I am doing an almost exactly the same thing but on 8 short bars with a thread on each end. I rigged up a dodgy spring feed to get the die to start which worked most of the time (the spring had other ideas on one of them). I was also concerned that my threads did not reach the shoulder but seeing how you reversed the die allayed my fears that I would damage it, so now I am off to the shed to make my amateur job look like a professional one thanks to this video. Regards from Australia, Keith.
Notice how the whole unit spins in his tailstock slightly ? Likely scoring his tailstock taper.... seat it harder maybe ? Hope you have MT taper reamers
That’s because Keith machined the shank to dead size, instead of a little undersized - generally aim for 80 % of thread depth to reduce cutting torque to a more reasonable figure. Check tapping drill sizes for confirmation of what I’m saying !
