Eddy current driven motor concept

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lenz law doesn't explain this video..it applies to one stationary body and one moving body but not 2 moving bodies....in this case, the moving magnets actually assists to rotate the brass bushing by the eddy currents instead of slowing it down. This law clearly states that an equal and opposite force is applied to the initial force that created it. If that's the case then why does this work? the eddy currents in the brass should bring the rotor to almost a sudden stop but it doesn't. Also if the brass is spun at high speed, the magnets on the rotor should stop the spinning brass but it doesn't either....the rotor starts to spin as well.......also I can stop the bushing from turning and the rotor continues even though the eddy currents are being produced which should cause a fast braking action on the rotor but again it does not.....the same applies in reverse by stopping the rotor lined up with the bushing, the bushing should stop but it doesn't....both the rotor and bushing only slow down and stop by their own friction....but yet one will assist the other when spinning........lenz law says no but this video says yes.... comments are welcome.

Опубликовано:

12 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 9

@3rdandnowhere 8 лет назад

What might be an interesting addition to the demo, would be to monitor any voltage from the brass sleeve, interject a piece of sheet cellophane ( 2 - 3 mil ) between the magnet and sleeve so as to eliminate any possible vacuum or boundary layer effect from the compression of air between the surfaces. It occurred to me that it might be helped by forces unseen.

@silectronics 8 лет назад

Interesting concept . The bag was filled with activated carbon soaked with water so I believe it was due to charge separation forced apart by magnetic field The carbon just acted as a reservoir of charge carriers. Plastic is not solid. Microscopically it has perferations therefore allowing charge to flow

@adityasikdar 6 лет назад

Hey... there's nothing wrong about this experiment... Lenz's law applies perfectly over here... lemme try to clear your doubt... *"lenz law doesn't explain this video..it applies to one stationary body and one moving body but not 2 moving bodies"* No & yes... it does apply to 1 stationary & another moving body, which is why the brass rotor spins up & keeps spinning. You're probably assuming that both the rotors are spinning at the same speed, but that's not the case... they're spinning at different speeds, for which, there is a RELATIVE MOTION between the 2... this relative motion is resulting in the induction of eddy currents... the situation is exactly similar to that inside an induction motor... the brass rotor of this device is always running at a speed, lower than that of the bigger rotor... initially, as the bigger rotor starts spinning, it induces eddy currents in the brass rotor, spinning it up... the brass rotors keeps speeding up, until it attains the speed of the bigger rotor... but the moment the speed of the 2 become equal, there is no more relative motion between the 2, for which, no more eddy current gets induced & the brass rotor slows down MOMENTARILY... but the moment that happens, there is once again a relative motion between the 2, for which, eddy currents get generated once again, causing the brass rotor to speed up, until it reaches the speed of the bigger rotor, after which, the cycle repeats itself. A similar kind of thing happens inside an induction motor... it is known as slip *"in this case, the moving magnets actually assists to rotate the brass bushing by the eddy currents instead of slowing it down. This law clearly states that an equal and opposite force is applied to the initial force that created it. If that's the case then why does this work? the eddy currents in the brass should bring the rotor to almost a sudden stop but it doesn't"* Actually, there is an equal & opposite force acting on the bigger rotor, attempting to slow it down, but since the rotor is bigger & heavier than the brass bushing, & since the brass bushing is free to rotate, it starts spinning itself, due to Newton's 3rd law... the situation is similar to a magnet repelling another magnet... if a heavier, larger magnet approaches a smaller one, at a high velocity, with their like poles face to face, & if the smaller magnet isn't fixed to any kind of support, the smaller one is going to move away, isn't it? That is sort of what's happening over here... the eddy currents are creating a magnetic field, having the same polarity as that of the approaching magnetic pole *"Also if the brass is spun at high speed, the magnets on the rotor should stop the spinning brass but it doesn't either....the rotor starts to spin as well"* That is because, the rotor is free to rotate... the same thing that I explained in the above para, is happening in this case too, but just in reverse... if the smaller magnet approaches the bigger magnet with sufficient momentum, with the same poles facing each other, & if the bigger magnet isn't fixed to a support, it will be moving away from the approaching magnet *"also I can stop the bushing from turning and the rotor continues even though the eddy currents are being produced which should cause a fast braking action on the rotor but again it does not.....the same applies in reverse by stopping the rotor lined up with the bushing, the bushing should stop but it doesn't"* Actually, the brass bushing doesn't have enough surface area... the eddy current path is very small, for which, very small eddy currents are getting generated in it, generating very little braking force, for which, none of the rotors come "to almost a sudden stop"... that is why, in AC machines, like transformers, the machine core is made up of several smaller, thinner, laminated sheets, stacked together, to reduce eddy current losses... the thinner sheets have a very small surface area & thus, a very small eddy current path

@silectronics 6 лет назад

I agree with every word said here and thanks for your comment...im aware of all physical laws but here is the problem which I neglect to mention or show in this video......the brass bushing in this video has a steel shaft and the reaction you see in this video shows what you see....I have also tried at first a brass bushing with a brass shaft...the result of that experiment shows only the brass bushing pulsing back and forth but not spinning...I removed that one in favour of this one with a steel shaft because the brass one warped when attempting to spin at high speed.....lenz law very clearly states that there will be an equal and opposite reaction to the initial force which causes that reaction...in respect to that comment the eddy currents in the bushing should oppose the rotor and bring the rotor to a quicker stop than what is seen here....automobiles that weigh 2 tons and travelling at high speed can be brought to a very abrupt stop with magnetic brakes despite the mass because eddy currents developed in the copper discs produce massive amounts of reverse currents regardless of size with respect to the car and its mass and speed......although the discs are fixed and not movable, it is understandable that it would happen that way ...the same applies to very heavy trains with magnetic brakes....the train can be brought to a stop much sooner than with conventional brakes.....so lenz law is very correct but again applies to one stationary and one moving body....now with the steel shaft the reaction is what you see but with a brass shaft there is no reaction as you see, well there is but only pulsing....so explain why that is?..all metals can aquire or absorb some magnetism to a certain degree...some on nano scales....and also metals have degrees of current flow capability and so when exposed to magnetism can produce currents and eddys ...because the produce eddys, lenz law will apply and react according to the law....but then again with 2 moving bodys, and one element made completely of brass, the reaction does not follow the law....in my opinion lenz law is one law that can be altered by geometry or material chemistry....thanks again for your comment.......

@adityasikdar 6 лет назад

That's interesting... needs to be investigated. Tbh, I really can't say at the moment, what's exactly preventing the bushing from spinning, unless I'm able to take a look at your device personally. I'll definitely replicate your experiment & try to find out what's going on, if I get the chance... I'll get back to you after I've done it. Btw, are you absolutely certain, that it wasn't any kind of mechanical imperfection in the brass shaft, which was hampering the movement? And thanks for your detailed reply... regards

@silectronics 6 лет назад

Brass is a somewhat a soft metal, the possibility of eccentricity in the brass shaft is high. I cut the brass rotor was on n my lathe and mini milling machine..I do not recall locking the table on my mill when it was as cut. So That was always possible but I also cut the one you see in this video on the same machines except I inserted a steel shaft I instead of all brass. For myself the explanation is simple enough. The magnets attract the steel core through th brass . Since both rotor and brass are free to turn, they do so because of mutual attraction of magnet and steel by proximity until gap between the 2 is large enough to disassociate. The brass itself may or may not play a role magnetically or with induced currents. One thing is fact the brass does have some weight or mass which definitely assists rotation by inertia . This leaves room for much more investigation as you say. Unfortunately I have not continued with this . It was just a very quick thought I had to try and tried it.

@adityasikdar 6 лет назад

But there's a little problem with that... initially, when the rotor magnet will be approaching the bushing, the force of attraction on the steel core will have 2 components - a tangential component, acting opposite to the direction of rotation in which the bushing is rotating over here, the force being tangential to the curved surface of the bushing, & a perpendicular component, acting perpendicular to the curved surface. After further rotation, when the magnet is at a minimum distance from the bushing, wouldn't the force be entirely perpendicular to the curved surface? Wouldn't the magnet be trying to pull the steel core towards itself in this position? Then, after further rotation, when the magnet will be going away from the bushing, the force will again have 2 components - a tangential & a vertical... but this time, the tangential force will be acting in the direction of rotation, as seen in the video. In conclusion, over a complete rotation of the big rotor, the force will initially be acting tangentially, opposite to the direction of rotation observed here, after which, it will become perpendicular to the bushing surface & finally, it will be tangential once again, but acting in the direction of rotation... so, considering all these 3 forces, will they really start up the bushing from rest? Or will the 2 tangential forces nullify each other over the cycle?

@silectronics 6 лет назад

Inertia due to mass at high speed overcomes vertical forces with respect to size differential . If this system can be made with frictionless bearings , tangential and vertical forces will be at minimum . Keep in mind the size differential of the steel core to the rotor. At high speed, the vertical force will be practically nonexistent , bearing friction plays a much bigger role. And as you see in the video, the bushing does start from rest position. To prove this, I built a rotor with mass and different size bearings for the shaft. At first, the bearings were 20mm diameter, the rotor was spun at high speed, it continued to spin on its own for 3 minutes. I then reduced the bearing size to 9mm, the same rotor spins for 15 minutes. The bearing size alone contributes to less friction with respe ct to rotor size and weight. There were no magnets on this one, just a heavy rotor with bearings and gyroscopic forces. Magnetic systems all have tangential and vertical forces with respect to other magnetic bodies but geometry determines how much of those forces apply.