I much prefer the thumb catch on the Pilot compared to the Jul family of devices. The Pilot is easier to get your thumb in position, you just slide your hand up the rope until it makes contact, very easy to do without looking while lead belaying. With the Jul you have open your hand more and accurately slot your thumb in-between the wire and thumb catch. It's just more fiddly and easier to mess up when not looking or moving quickly.
I have a Jul2 and a Megajul and love them both. The pilot: I've tried it and it's very similar to use, but I like the feel of the Edelrid devices much more. Maybe if I used a pilot more I'd grow to like it more, but I'm very happy with the Edelrid family. 😁 In regards to the jumpy lowering: I've found that anchoring my elbow at my hip to be the easiest way to smoothly lower my climber. Once you get a good feel for it, it's easy!
I have quite similar portfolio of activities as Matt and I opted to try the hybrid GigaJul, which is basically a combination of the classic ATC and two rope assisted braking device, operated by a slider. I really like the autolocking mechanism, especially for belaying on thinner rope, belaying top rope, belaying someone who is projecting for longer time, whenever I don't need to give dynamic catches (I often belay from anchor, so jumping up is often not an option) or I need to hold for longer time. The thumb catch is unbelievably convenient and I highly recommend the device to anyone. With Jul^2 it is not the case, but with the two ropes devices from Jul family I have one complaint which I want to address - abseiling. With all the rope below it is even harder to find the biting spot and by the end of the 60m abseil you will have serious cramps in your thumb. So my advice is having some nice Jul for sport climbing and ATC for the rest.
I haven't tried the Jul as I got a BD pilot after the review last year. The tubular device is so easy to use for single pitch sport climbing. I'll always have an atc or gri gri with me but my BD pilot is definitely the most intuitive.
I've had the Jul2 for over a year, and have used it for belaying both top rope (basically identical to an ATC except with the assisted braking function) and for lead climbing indoors and outside. I got it because I preferred the ATC style of giving slack but wanted the assisted braking safety, and a gri-gri always felt tricky giving slack on lead belays. I use the first method of giving slack he mentioned (always keeping the thumb on the device) and I love that it intuitively keeps your brake hand on the rope, and it makes giving and taking slack easy, and the device naturally locks up in a fall. I would recommend getting a full round stock carabiner, as it will allow a smoother action with the device, I've found smaller and differently shaped carabiners tend to feel grabby. I'll have to try out that second method he mentioned when lowering people, as that's literally the only issue I've had with the device, it is sometimes hard to find that sweet spot and has been a bit grabby when lowering people or rappelling on a single rope. Otherwise it's a super solid device and I love it.
I use the second method to lower but with a slight difference, I put the index finger under the "nose", where the green cable is inserted. It works perfect for me. I also use the steel carabiner sold by edelrid
But one important note is missing, may you don't know better: Edelrid wants its OWN ORIGINAL HMS carabiner (Made of stainless steel) for this belaying device, its inadmissible to use others. They may not support the brake in the way they should. Aluminium could be too soft, some HMS carabiner shapes do not match into the brake system. Just read the Jul2 security advices.
I use the Jul 2 and I love it. To be honest I never had the chance to use the BD pilot but I learned belaying with the Mammut Smart and sometimes I got my fingers into the system. For me personal, the Smart was a little bit bulky, not as much as a Grigri but still not something I wanted to spend money on as a beginner. So I tried the Jul 2 and it was much better. The only problem I had at the beginning was that at the end of lowering the climber I burned my finger sometimes. But since I found out how this happend it is no problem anymore. The toprope stations in my gym use ropes with 10,8 to 11mm and it is still easy to belay even fast climbers. One of my climbing partners bought a 8,9mm rope and I was scared lead belaying at the very end of the range. It lockes as it always does and even lowering is no problem. You need a little bit more strengh in your breaking hand than with a 9,8mm rope but it is still comfortable.
100% agree with your preference on these two devices. After misplacing my BD pilot, I decided to get to the Jul2. Easier to pay out slack on the Jul2 but lowering off certainly feels better on the pilot. I used the thumb behind method as the hook the thumb under, whilst lowering, feels slightly uncontrollable. I would like Edelrid to provide a more comfortable area for the thumb behind the device though.
Don't want to be to "Internet-backseat-know it all", but since it's a video on belaying, I feel it is quite relevant. According to how I learned it, you do not quite use the Jul2 correct for belaying. Whenever you gave slack/pulled slack, you want to bring the Jul back into the break position. That means, tilting the break hand down towards your feet. It is a constant switch between: * break position * open position > give slack * back to break position That means, your breakhand will constantly do this 'dancing motion' of tilting between closed/break and open/give-slack position You never want to hold the Jul in the open position, the closed/break position should always be the default position. At least according to how I learned belaying with it.
Interesting comparison there. I have used the BD at a climbing wall a couple of years ago and was totally impressed, but I'm more inclined towards mountaineering days than single pitch sport climbing. I recently got a GigaJul but yet to use it. So far so good, it appears to do everything you want it to with the assist mode being just that, assisting rather than taking over. Hopefully I've found 'the one' ❤️❤️❤️😂
I use the Jul2, I never use the thumb method to give slack, it would be easier but I found a way to feed slack well according to the other method with some practice, by this way I all the time keep rope under the device and it will brake all the time in case of fall (I worry about keeping the device in up position at wrong timing with the thumb method so I keep my hand far from it)
I like the Jul2 but somewhat on par with the Smart2.0. The slinged nose of the Jul2 doesn't feel as intuitive as the Smart but the Jul2 runs a bit more fluent for me (probably the theoretical upper limit of 11mm). Really did not like the MegaJul though with any guidance (nose) absent. Do have a BD Pilot here but did not use it so far. Was on sale with the carabiner shown in the video, which is now not anymore available (there were some potential safety issue rumors) and bought it due to your review. Should try it soon. By the way, Edelrid offers the Jul2 as a very nice package with a triple lock Bulletproof FG which makes it a combo probably lasting forwever. You should offer that one!
Giga jul is a great device. It's smoother in giving rope to the climber and lowering. For rappeling i change the mode. It replaced my megajul. Only mental thing. In the beginning i don't like moving parts in a breaking device. But it's solid.
I gave it proper review in one of the other comments down here, generally the result is - get an ATC and some of the lighter JULs (either one or two ropes version) and you will be better off. For multipitch I don't like the autoblock because I like to give dynamic catches, it is useless for abseiling and for sport routes you don't need the other stuff.
I've got one and I think it's the best "all round" device. It does everything well. However, it doesn't specialize into any thing specific. So I take my Grigri when I'm single pitch sport climbing and the Gigajul when I'm doing just about anything else (it's especially nice on long multipitch days). I have found that the device does grab a little bit when I'm feeding rope out and can sometimes be a pain to clean (esp. if you've been in sandstone country). Overall, love the device and would recommend to just about anyone looking to buy a new braking device! It assists in braking, works exactly the same as an ATC style device in manual mode (beginner friendly), you can rappel, lightweight, HALF THE PRICE of a Grigri, etc, etc, etc. I could sing it's praises all day! And for all you left handers out there, it's a great option for an assisted device that doesn't force you to relearn how to belay with your right or do something really awkward/dangerous.
Did you use an Edelrid carabiner or another brand? I found it slips with other brands but not with the Edelrid bulletproof belay biner, even when my heavier friend climbs.
it's also useful for someone who is left handed and belays lefty style. with the gri gri which is made specifically for right handed use, something like these devices are a god send
I've only been climbing for about 6 months(gym only so far) and have only used the pilot. It's super easy to use. Sorry I can't compare to other devices. Definitely would like try and use the grigri and other devices as I get more experience. Thanks for your videos!
ATC pilot is very easy to easy and beginners catch on very quickly. More intuitive than a gri gri, and smoother all around. Can't compare to the jul as I haven't tried one yet.
I'm still using and enjoyng a lot the old MEGAJUL ... fits me perfectly, and Ii never carry it around attached to loop, always use the carabines in the top ring.
Me and my buddies all have Singing Rock Rama belay, since we all bought same set and its super easy to use, reliable and only issue I had with it was that one chunky old rope in my gym that is a little too thick, but there is no problem feeding my 10mm rope through it so for now I dont feel like changing :)
the BD device feels cheap plastic and aluminum. After 3 years of heavy gritty use the Jul started to get a bit sharp (although i don't think dangerously so) so on a road trip we got a Pilot at REI store. Finished the road trip and returned it. If you grab the LIVE rope to the climber in a fall it does not slide. Try that with a Grigri and he decks. If you like the Jul 2 then the Jul double rope version also works well. But you have to reverse that one to rappel otherwise very grabby.
As a climbing instructor I own most of the available devices and I prefer the Jul. Newbies get familiar with the handling very soon, independent from rope condition.
I have yet to find a reason why you should use a camming device over an auto-block for single pitch climbing. They're so much easier to use and in many ways actually safer e.g. Feeding the rope quickly doesn't require stopping the blocking action (unlike the grigri)
Just got Jul2 and have used it just one day. Paying out slack is smooth, lowering seemed fine (but my partners weigh less than me). One nit I will likely get used to - pulling in slack on a top rope has me running into the catch part of the device with my brake hand. The device isn’t sharp but it was still annoying as this doesn’t happen with prior non assist tubers. I wish I could have tried pilot and smart before choosing but I didn’t know anyone with any problems f these new devices. Note: a grigri is better and maybe one of the new grigri like devices too but my climbing gym doesn’t allow them and I wanted some assist for my lighter partners.
Been using the Jul for a while and really recommend a steel carabiner with it (sometimes it’s sold together with an aluminium one) as the Jul tends to eat a Little on the aluminium carabiners. Adds a little extra weight but feels a lot safer and otherwise a great device!
I've bought it together with an Edelrid "HMS Bulletproof Triple FG" carabiner and it's a great pair! This carabiner has a stainless steel insert where the rope has the most contact with it, and a very nice auto-locking system. It's slightly more expansive (but we're not talking crazy amounts) but it's supposed to be very durable. In the Netherlands I paid around 60 euros for the jul + carabiner together, which is quite a bargain here I'd say.
@epictv I miss some information about how those two devices work for dynamic belaying (e.g. heavy belayer belaying light weighted Climber) compared to a standard tube like ATC etc.
They doesn't actually work for dynamic belaying, they lock up same as a grigri. The nice thing by the way is when yoou hand it over to a complete beginner, as they tend to sometimes let go the braking hand, this 2 devices lock up perfectly every time in case of a fall.
A dynamic belay with the pilot is easier than a GriGri (due to my example below where you can easily pay out a little bit of rope with less compromise to your ability to brake), but it does lock up super fast & requires an attentive belay. In instances where you actually want to feed rope during a fall for a softer catch, it is easy to pop up your thumb to fast-feed a bit of rope just like when you pay out for leading, and it is a quick/easy transition back to braking. For example, I was belaying a much lighter partner on an overhung route in my gym, when she fell from a stance I didn't expect her to. I didn't have as much slack out as I'd have liked in that situation (she was high up where the route had started to be less overhung) and to avoid spiking her or giving a hard catch, I popped up the nose of the pilot with my thumb & fed just a little bit of rope out. That bought me enough freedom to reposition myself and give a small hop up so her momentum could carry me up. I know that seems like a lot of things to do in the split seconds a fall happens in, but most of that was unconscious reactions to the situation. This is someone that I have climbed with quite a bit, and (if I can hear it) her breathing tells me when she's unsure and possibly going to fall, so there are things that I may have subconsciously picked up on that aided in my ability to react faster than I consciously processed the event. I honestly didn't have a specific thought about feeding out the rope, but my instincts & experience kicked in, in the moment. You'll have to take my word for it, but I personally felt reinforced in my decision to react as I did because two people who happened to be standing by watching noted how soft the catch was as well as my climber thanking me for the softness. My $0.02... I've been using the pilot for nearly two years now, I own 30+ different devices (that number is slightly inflated due to acquiring different tuber variants), and the Pilot is my absolute go-to in the gym (the Jul² is one of the few I don't own. It handles fuzzy gym too ropes well, and I love how it handles for lead belaying. Outside, I use a camming device just for the slight added braking assistance it offers over the Pilot. And because you asked...my preferred camming device is the Vergo, but I also always have a GriGri on hand as well for those who are more comfortable with it.
Those are slide locks, which are low profile and two stage from Edelrid, as well these come in versions with a belay minder gate and a steel insert. Use one for the gym all the time, but will say usually would want a three stage or screw lock on the belay device because slide locks are particularly easy to unlock and open (during a lock check you can easily unlock this).
Does the Jul2 have any advantages over the double rope jul-series devices the megajoule and gigajoule from Edelrid? Also as a giant nerd all Edelrid's scientifi units names are so great!
Cheaper and simpler. That's it. I started climbing in a gym with Jul2 as default device and I love its simplicity. I even used it when I started off climbing outdoor for some single-pitch routes. And finally I got GigaJul for all climbing activities, single-pitch or multi-pitch, sport or trad, lead or top-rope, and of course rappelling.
I’ve got the Mega Jul which is the same as the Jul2 but handles 2 ropes like a standard ATC. Personally I like these much better than a GriGri as I find GriGri’s are much more difficult to give slack (in comparison) and frankly, it just lets people get lazy and complacent. In terms of the feeding slack for the MegaJul though, my preference is the feed slack just like I would with an ATC. The reason for this is that I don’t know how much force a fall has to take to ‘block’ the device and so I don’t like the idea of holding the device ‘open’ as I worry that if my climber takes a fall at that point, then the rope is just going to slip straight through and they will fall a lot further
I have actually gotten a JUL² based on an old review of epic from way back when, the device actually really scared me when I started using it as someone that's been using a normal belay device for years. If your running an older rope it's actually dangerous cause the added squish and width causes the device to jump and lurch, dropping the climber in a really unsettling way with potential to actually drop them when the rope binds. If you give too much slack while it's stuck to try and unjam it then the thing slips when ya aren't expecting it. The biting point is very thin and feels super unpredictable. It's really hard to manage the speed of the descent and it feels really scary to use, it is NOT for beginners. The metal also gets HOT when you do finally lower someone at the right speed. I disagree with this review and find it misleading for beginner climbers, but if you do get one then practice A LOT with a rock bag or something. At least it looks cool though, right?
I completely disagree with you. I'ts a perfect device for beginners.. I've used mine for over a year now and its perfectly fine and in no way dangerous to use.. IMO everything you have written is wrong and far from the truth...
Man, I'm tired of not finding any brake assist comparison tests. All you are talking about is your opinion. To really give a good comparison you need to put them from hard straight tests. Which one holds better, for example. You guys also need to read up. The jul series have a wire that tends to break, leaving the device useless. There is no mention of that.
I think it locks more reliably (rope depending). if you're rigging for filming or setting it's pretty nice to have. For regular sports belaying yeah there's no difference
Kinda funny you say they're all copies - since there's only like 3-4 other devices on the market that actually try to imitate the cam on a Grigri. The rest are all modifications to a standard tubular (ATC) system.
@@psicologiageneraleconalleg369 yes it’s expensive but worth it. I also use normal ATC guide (even more than GRI because I mostly do alpine climbing) but for sport climbing, Gri is definitely alpha and omega of belaying. Such a simple thing to use once you get used to it.
@@dinadijanovic7592 have you even tried the other devices? What I meant before is that it's easier to convince yourself that you bought something worth it when it's expensive than accepting that maybe there were better options. In fact, if it wasn't the case, you would highlight the fact that what works the best depends on personal preference and you'd have a more balanced opinion on the topic. You don't even argument why the grigri should be better than the others.
