EDH Split Incoming? Will cEDH Break Off of EDH? | Commander Bans Impact | MTG 

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My group mostly plays High-powered edh. Not nearly fast enough for CEDH, but stronger than your average casual. We're gonna keep playing Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus in the decks that have them. They enable the big cmc commanders we like.

If cedh makes their own banlist and break off completely I'm leavin edh behind for the most part I'll still have a fee but most of my decks are gonna be cedh

It would be awesome to be separated, they are worlds too different

CEDH neeeeeds their own ban list. It would truly benefit both formats

CEDH and EDH play nothin alike and I'm all for 2 separate ban lists cause of this

The RC basically overestimated their moral weight, pushing aside the CAG in this decision. Unfortunate. If cEDH wants to split off, as it is almost a separate format at this point, I would be fine with that.

I always thought that having one or more "subformats" under the EDH umbrella was a good idea at the end of the day!

They already announced the CCC (competitive commander collective) which isn’t its own RC per say but are moving forward with CEDH in mind

The idea that there is one game called Commander is just no longer true. There need to be at least three subgames.

cedh tourney guy here and mtg tourney player since urzas saga….its the dockside ban that is a problem for cedh. sure, folks will hate losing the speed of crypt and lotus, sure folks will hate the value lost, but those are either universally effective or non-game-impacting complaints. the dockside though was a very needed equalizer/enabler that kept the format from being a 1deck meta. blue farm and rog/si (VERY similar deck--breach/thoracle) has been statistically far ahead of the other decks for edh tourney wins or top placement. yes that deck type lost 3 cards here, but it relied on none of them. many other decks though were barely able to have a chance at winning over that deck because of dockside being a loop condition. while these decks can argueably still be played, the point is the top deck or two that were already far ahead statistically got a small hit, while tons of decks statistically already behind farm/rog/si took a major hit that will widen the gap between the decks. it will greatly narrow the format and fully eliminate the playability of some commanders

Something I’ve noticed about this casual vs. cEDH discussion is there seems to be increasingly little discussion and space for people who want to play ‘high powered non-cEDH’. If the format splits then the RC might decide to ban more powerful cards like the tutors, Rhystic study, underworld breach, jeska’s, the free spells, etc. But there are people who like to play with those strong cards, but say in their aggro, +1/+1 counters, tribal decks, etc. So a format split may land these ‘middle’ players in an awkward spot.

Wizards already uses regular Commander to sell packs with 'special guests' or makes 'Commander masters' packs that are $25 for a set booster. Do we really want the next commander masters to have $50 regular packs and $120 collector boosters becauee they reprint some Cedh staples in it? Or do we really want a 'Cedh' only cards that are made printed and automatically banned in Edh?

CEDH and the format need to do a bit of growing up, the CEDH format is made in the image of EDH. CEDH doesn’t have its own fundamental rules of differences. It will NEVER separate itself from edh, it wouldn’t make sense to any degree. CEDH will be just fine, y’all are gonna have to just do a bit more work than some high power tables.

A separate ban list is just justification for my current CEDH deck to then be called “casual” lol

I have been playing EDH from the beginning and we all know that cEDH spun off of EDH. cEDH just being just played competitively is still based on the normal EDH rules and people need to realize that cEDH needs to grow itself. Similar to modern ban lists, if it can't grow and everyone is playing the same decks with minimal to no variations then it will choke itself out and become painful to even play. However, if people want to split cEDH off into its' own format then go for it, and I can honestly say it would become a format ruled by money to such an extent that you might as well just go play Legacy and be done with it.

Mitch always gets it wrong when talking about Cedh. Cedh isn’t an anything goes type of game. It’s just a more powerful Edh. Win the game as quickly as possible. Upheaval wouldn’t be played in Cedh because it slows the game down unnecessarily and just wouldn’t be very good.

2 lists is best. Cards gain value back. Casuals can can play casual and cedh can play cedh? Whats the issue here?

It should! Why bring a casual deck to get stomped on and cry on a cedh table? Same goes for cedh, when you find no pleasure in crushing your opponents in turns 2 or 3 when you bring a cedh deck on a casual table, causing frowns from other players. Both brackets of players have different perspectives on the games. Cedh would go far and beyond in the quick and competitive space while casual players go for janky and fun stretched out games with haymakers. Also, it hurts the market value of the cards that some people saved up a lot for just to get one so they can keep up with the evolving meta. The ban on these cards devolves the competitive space instead of helping it evolve for players and the market alike.

Commander is big enough that it is due to have friction between different styles of play, they need a higher power edh and a low power edh if they want the community to stay together

if there was a split we would end up with cEDH, casual EDH, and competitive casual EDH, so cEDH, cEDH, and ccEDH

I think everyone really needs to convince RC to have CEDH have their own banlist. I don’t play that format but I believe the split between EDH and CEDH will not only benefit the CEDH community but this would be the only way that the RC can gain back to trust of the entire Commander community after these recent bans

Why would there be a need to split off? People who play cEDH most likely have come from a competitive format and are very much used to banlists. Even a banlist as bold as this may kill many commander viability and with any competitive format competitive players will always adapt and find the next broken thing.

Oracle absolutely needs to be banned in casual what are you smoking?!

CEDH being its own format might be healthy for more casual tables, especially if they have different ban lists. Because it means pub stompers couldn't just play any old CEDH deck at a casual table. If their decklist ran any of the cards that aren't banned in CEDH but is in casual EDH, they would need to alter their decks to fit within the non competitive ruleset. Sure nothing is stopping them from just sleeving in different cards before going to play, but it makes it a bit of a hassle for them, but it would need to be done at home. Unless players are going to simply hold their tongue when they watch someone that they probably know has the intention of pub stomping, when they start subbing in and out clearly competitive cards to be within compliance of the rules, right in front of the ppl they intend to pub stomp. Though even in the case that they do I hope it just makes it clear to the table who the big bad will most likely be.

We allowed this to happen. We are responsible. It is the PLAYERS that give cards value It is the PLAYERS that should foster sportsmanship and fair play It’s is the PLAYERS that should communicate their decks It is OUR responsibility to have Rule 0 conversations The PLAYERS have allowed WOTC and RC to run the show and dictate play World advice: stop waiting for the “governing” body to tell you what’s “healthy” or “right” - hold yourself and community accountable. It’s about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY - always has. Ban the Ban List - establish expectations and house/store rules.

The RC ban list is for competitive play like tournaments and such. Hence competitiveEDH is the format that adheres to it.

The only true commonality between edh and cedh is the deck construction restrictions every thing else is basically different they should be separate. I also think this could result in a shake up in the rules committee as far as members

I think we need to take a few steps back when looking at bannings. A lot of what we're seeing is "this card is too good in a deck that's built around this one card". That is NOT a good enough reason to ban a card if that strategy isn't a disproportionate percentage of the meta.

Comparing sol ring to mana crypt is wild lol 😂. Also I don't think they need to slow down commander that much, manacrypt and jeweled are fine enough.

I fins the juxtaposition of all these changes very weird... like, duskmourn commander just released a precon with a fairly consistent infinite combo... steve goes infinite... with like a handful of even 'lower powered' cards, and $20 and it gets even better... $60 in addition to removing some cards and putting in counters and interaction and id consider it pseudo cedh... but then they discuss breaking the format... the power level of the 'floor' for casual edh is creeping up, so i am confused what the actual problem is?

if by a split, make a format not dictated by absolute doorknobs? yes, a split ought to be done. though, if a split does happen, power 9 should be unbanned; except time walk. time walk is bad news either way. but shahrazad, nadu, and other cards currently banned for utterly wasting people's time, im on board for that. timesifter can be added to that list too. but the moxen & black lotus, ancest recall & library of alexandra are harmless in 2024

Each game begins with the ban question now because mana crypt belongs in the game😮‍💨. We don't have a uniform set of rules anymore, or any desire to get burned again chasing cards, or keep stuff like ancient tomb, mana vault, grim monolith. R U buying the real...anything that's more than a few bucks now? And the stores that got sold this crap last week! F@ck

I feel like folks who call themselves casual players have a certain idea what is considered cedh and what is casual. But the reality is that there is a massive difference between a cedh deck vs a competitive edh deck. For example, the argument that Thassa Oracle is not a problem in casual is simply not true. Tainted pact/ demonic consultation combo with Oracle is played very often in what folks consider "casual" edh and is an issue based on how un-interactive it is and how cheap the combo is. cedh isnt a format of "oh I pick random commander and build a strong deck with strong cards." It's I pick a series of combos and win cons that are present in multiple decks and pick a commander that helps with that game plan. cedh deck have more in common with a modern meta in a sense that there are tier lists and "net decks" that you play with than just building a random edh that is strong. This difference can be seen where you can easily beat a cedh with what's considered a "casual" deck because the cedh format isn't designed to answer or be answered by a majority of cards in edh. It's more like a subset of cards that can be used and the lists are designed to either promote that set of cards or answer that set of cards

WoTC just needs free counterspells. This is why FoW is so good. It stops shenanigans. These cards didn't need banned. I dont play in tournaments just with friends. We will allow the lotus, dockside, and the crypt. Nadu is just playing solitaire,so we dont play it. This doesn't affect my group whatsoever. Ty

I think the simplest, easiest solution would have been to change the title of the “ban list” to something less definitive. Separate your decks as “this deck includes cards on said list, these other decks don’t. Immediately you’ve shortcut the rule zero conversation, but you haven’t told people “those cards are banned/illegal”. Psychologically, it makes a difference. Yes you can rule zero them back in, but wouldn’t it have been a simple fix to add them to the list but change the list’s functionality? Use it as a way to identify which side of the line a deck is on. That’s all. I also wonder if this type of implementation could have prevented such a massive financial impact, I feel this whole decision was incredibly irresponsible for the health and wellbeing of LGS.. EDIT: with a change of bans to “recommended do-not-play”, you could literally allow tournament venues to cherry pick their own exclude list per event to shake up meta, I’m not super familiar with their play, but I’d think tweaking a deck you have for certain tournaments and reverting back to a “favourite build” would be better than disassembling a deck that’s no longer viable?

2:45 Sol ring won't be ban because everyone has one in their decks, there way to many copies of sol ring so that would be a big reason why adding onto the fact that it only legal in commander and restricted in vintage

As someone who invested in getting a copy of Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt specifically for my CEDH, I will admit that the bans really affected me. Thankfully, I purchased both pieces from a friend so at least my money went to him and will help his financial situation. That said, after mulling it over, I don't think separating CEDH is the solution. I do have a CEDH deck, but I'm still largely a Casual Player. If CEDH separates into a separate format, I think the Casual players will suffer more from people who brew up CEDH level decks that still adhere to the RC's Rules and Banlist. Budget CEDH decks still exist that don't use all the "good stuff", and these $150~$200 brews can easily outstrip a Casual deck worth twice (even thrice) that amount. But the Budget CEDH player can easily claim that they followed the RC Banlist (the "Casual Banlist") and not the Banlist for CEDH and is therefore, "not a CEDH deck". The RC's ruling was all about keeping high powered play out of Casual Tables. This problem literally does not go away with these bannings. All the bannings did was: • Make it harder for the older high CMC commanders to keep up with the newer, streamlined, power-crept commanders; • Hurt the stores who had these cards in stock since their prices significantly dropped; • Annoy the CEDH community. Sure the cards got banned, but the "Meta" will just readjust and move forward. This entire hullabaloo was a Rule Zero issue. Not a card issue.

It would be a good idea for CEDH to leave EDH due to this Corporate WOTC enforcement through RC and that is exactly why the CAG was not informed because big daddy corporate WOTC has plans to push product most likely next year that that they want commander players to buy so they pushed this ban and uses the whole RC for a cover story, more like a cover-up story🤷🏼‍♂️💯

Like i said before, this would not be a problem if they put both cards in precon decks everyone will have lile 10 to 50 of those making it worthless and brings balance to the format avoiding scalpers to profit from staples that work in any deck. If you want to limit commanders to legendary pulls? Sure, just give people an alternative to secure the card in the future.

Hey I still want Braids Cabal Minion unbanned in casual I could use her in my Tergrid commander deck🤷🏼‍♂️😈🖤👍🏼👍🏼💯

I don't see why it should not. They have been treated like two different formats all along. Kinda like Vintage and Legacy.

Man Mitch some of your takes on cedh are missing on the mark. As a Cedh player we look to win the game fast. Not play mass land destruction for a game to go to a draw 😂. The mind set is completely different from casual. Nobody is spending 8 mana to ask a sundering titan just to say “pass turn”😂😂. We spend 8 mana and push for a winning combo.

As a cedh player, the main issue for me is this didn't really affect the top decks of the format. Blue farm and Rogsi are still dominant. But this did absolutely neuter "tier 2" decks that could still compete. Korvold is basically dead. Niv-mizzet is on life-support and there are several other examples. The way this should have been done is ban one at a time, say dockside. see how it slows the format over a few months, move on to lotus if needed etc. This was the nuclear option when conventional options were still available and probably would have been welcomed. Now competitive tournaments are going to see much less diversity imo and the whole format is just going to get a lot more homogenized.

Even if bthey split… dockside should still be banned in cedh. It’s just to much when u have up to 4 people playing it, copying it, flickering etc. just to much

Prophet of Kruphix could be unbanned. Also, ambiguity is the problem. They could simply split commander into 3 formats: cEDH, powered commander, and casual commander. Casual would incorporate various fast mana bans, powered would focus on banning only broken combo, and cEDH could be opened up to less bans like vintage.

I'm in favor of this. I like calling this Format as "Blitz," due to the players loving fast games, and a seperate banlist would really help restore some value to the recently banned cards. Also would help Commander itself slow down a bit. Many casual players don't like fast games unlike cedh players. I personally LOVE these bans, but I can't help but wonder if Blitz Format can help people out.

I cedh players, honestly rules 0 If no one dose it or does it wrong cedh will always mix witch not good for edh because the games be faster and edh players can't really answer but cedh dose teach few things puzzle solving thinking outside the box finding answers and teaches faster games play and thinking on the spot cedh is more of a competitive frommat not for everyone but people do enjoy cedh I am one of them this needed to happen for a long time now

This crapping on Sol Ring is asinine. It’s a super cheap card that everyone can easily own. Boo hoo if someone gets theirs out early. PLAY REMOVAL SPELLS!!!

If 2-3 cards banned make every single cEDH no longer viable then I feel like you're bad deck builders not unable to remain competitive

I normally make decks not for cedh but they can still challenge cedh players just likes for xenagos god of reveals working on a few more but i likes playing cedh but i try not to use a lot of cedh commander recommend for cedh i like the fun and challenging cedh because cedh likes to win fast as possible but i found a lot of Commander that are hard to play and cedh plus it helps my learn others ways to win out of the box thinking theirs is no wrong way to play cedh because those who like cedh you are going to win your going to lose but id you know what you did wrong with or keeped a bad hand or anything that could makes the game into your favor cedh 100 persent needed to spit because i agree on some bans not all of them plus you going to run into stacks land destruction counter spells and mill and maybe lose the games btw turn 0 and 6 but that's why we play it we enjoy those games cedh not for everyone but why we need to split off from edh

As a casual player I do not agree with the mana crypt ban. In my CASUAL playgroup we are not going for a turn 2 or 3 win... Therefore mana crypt is in effect a WORSE Sol Ring How does the ban benefit CASUAL play? I can only see that the ban would be more specific for a competitive play as that's the only playstyle where these types of plays are used Am I just different? To me casual or competitive is a playstyle

I'm gonna take the side of JLK and Rachel in that splitting the two (while I've kinda desired it in the past) accomplishes little. It doesn't stop cEDH from 'bleeding into' EDH, it doesn't stop people from optimizing the hell out of their decks. All it serves to accomplish is electing another arbitrary group of people to the same position the current RC is now, having another ban and restricted list to deal with. cEDH players already catch enough hell when they bring their stuff to the table of casuals, a split would make it even more pronounced.

Not happening We learn when attempted last month: even within cedh there are multiple opinions: -some want to play competitively but prefer a balanced and diverse meta. -some want to play with the most busted cards possible. Is impossible to fulfill with a single ban list even within cedh.

I love to play both EDH and cEDH. I have decks in both styles. I never get to play my slower decks because events are usually cEDH and I'm forced to focus on my faster deck strategies. If you had a separate cEDH banned list, then you could ban a lot of powerful cards from EDH. I personally would love to be able to play that format. These bans don't do enough to create this slower EDH format. I recently asked a local game store that runs a casual commander event for their banned list and they didn't have one. Instead the event just says no wins allowed before turn 5 and if you bring a cEDH deck they "will make fun of you". This is messy and why there should be separate banned lists for the two different play styles. That way I can build a deck for the style I want to play and know I won't be made fun of, at least not for the deck I brought. The whole point of having a Rules Committee is to standardize the format so everyone knows what to expect and people can build with confidence. Even with my friend play group, we can say "this week we're playing slower decks", but there's no guideline for what that actually means. Sure we could come up with our own banned list, but then we'd be spending time building a deck that would only be playable in our private games. Rule Zero is for very specific local play group modifications, but the differences between the play styles of EDH and cEDH are much more broad and complicated. It's best to set the standard for both universally.

Cedh splitting will do basically nothing for casual because you will have people trying to break EDH. Cedh splitting off would be basically for tournament play only.

I find the idea of cedh splitting off hilarious. CEDH is just EDH played at a competitive level. It wouldn’t be “splitting off”. It would be a new format. And cEDH would remain a thing

I play commander at 3 different lgs and have 2 groups of friends I play with. I enjoy playing decks with different power levels. If someone plays a deck way stronger than they say it is, then I let them know, but I do not have to play with them again. I would much rather lose in 2 turns vs play against a solitaire deck that takes 25 minutes per turn. I enjoyed splashing crypt or lotus in giant silly commander decks to make them somewhat playable. It's not these four cards that are the problem, it's the commanders and over all deck constructions that are the problem. Maybe just don't play with those people.

I don't think cedh will split off. Why would it? At the center of cedh is simply playing to win. You could ban 200 cards out of commander, cedh as a mindset would be fine. People simply build the most competitive deck they can with that new card pool. The real question of a split comes down to who wants to use rule zero and who wants a highly curated experiance like standard. Curated commander vs commander zero.

I'm really turning towards the idea of unbanning everything and introducing an unsportsmanlike-conduct rule instead. You can have any cards you want, but if you do something degenerate with it, you lose half your life rounded up, and for the rest of the turn you can't gain life or win the game and your opponents can't lose the game. That would do it. Activate that Griselbrand once. Don't use that Karakas to bounce another player's commander. Don't cast Demonic Consultation and Thassa's Oracle in the same turn. No need to ban anything.

CEDH vs. EDH feels like Spike vs. Timmy... Both are legit ways to play MTG but with different mindsets. Have different lists for each makes sense

As a casual player with a 100 dollar deck cap, I’m all for taking out the power 9 from the casual format to limit the volatility and explosiveness of decks. If you need fast mana, you don’t deserve it

In my locals, it’s essentially been split at least for tournament cedh. Most tournaments post ban have just started running custom ban list (with dockside, mana crypt, JL unbanned)

I also think that rule 0 makes more sense as an opt-in vs opt-out. Using a banned card or commander requires you to get the table's explicit permission beforehand. That's opt-in. I ask people if I can run Nira, Hellkite Duelist, and people usually say yeah. Out-op means you have to be the guy to essentially tell someone you don't like yojr deck. In a playgroup with friends who play together frequently, this is fine. For playing with randos, game quality varies so much. Evidenced by the fact that a power level 7 coming from a magic player is the nebulous and useless statement of all time.

We've needed a split for at least 10 years. Reserved list cards need to be in a format of their own. It's such a bad feeling for casual players who know they will never, ever play the optimal version of their deck. Splitting the format makes obtaining the optimal version of decks much more attainable for the average Joe. Everything on one side of the split can be reprinted as much as need be. There's also no reason ppl who own reserved list cards/ high-powered cards can't/money cards can't use them. Splitting formats up will make it much easier to know what level your deck is on and to know what level your opponents decks are on. On that note, I've never understood why most cedh players domt tune a casual deck. That way you can play cedh with the homies but whenever there's a need to play with powered down decks, you're a le to. My groups been doing this since 2010. I really don't understand why more players don't make this format more accessible and friendly for their fellow players.

The Competitive/Casual Ban list should be split, I also think they need to bring back the banned From/As commander list, So certain cards banned as the commander but not from the 99.

Been playing CEDH for 2 years now. And yeah they should split imo. Whenever a ban does come through it seems to really only effect my decks. I carry a precon to accommodate causal players but damn I'm sick of my decks I spend stupid amounts of money on to get wrecked because random players in a bubble don't like a style of play. But who am I...

I can't speak for all cedh players, but I think for most of us, it wasn't the fact that the cards got banned, it was 1. The shady business decisions that wotc had around this ban and 2. The inconsistency of the ban. I would think plenty if cedh players would agree that crypt and dockside were stupidly strong, but so are a dozen other mana rocks that are essentially free and some that are arguably better (in cedh specifically). It's hard to say what a cedh banlist would look like, but I would think it would most likely be about a quarter of the size of the current edh banlist maximum.

Yes. A nimble very receptive to actual tournament players. Cedh players are a different breed. Tourney Organizers lgs's vested players content creators can make a rotating list. Perhaps for 6 months to iron out kinks. It'll be new and exciting

The whole appeal of edh is being able to use any card. Why is that being regulated? You can't fix the problems that come with the idea of edh, otherwise the banlist is just going to keep getting bigger. Why are 2 card infinites still allowed? Where do we draw the line? The RC needs to fck off at this point. A bunch of out of touch middle aged people shouldn't dictate how people should play the anything goes format.

People are gonna optimize a game. You literally can't hold back people from trying to play a game properly.

Y’all smoking too much copium, making a separate format NOW where these cards are legal would be pretty much like unbanning them. I think this would only add insult to injury to all the stores and individuals currently selling their pieces for 30 bucks hoping to get some cash back. This could only happen if they are planning on reprinting them as rares or something in like a “CEDH” masters set which I guess could help balance out the losses (there would still be outrage knowing this community lol)

I’m not a CEDH player but I think that Prophet of Kruphix would be ok in CEDH

I don’t understand why it hasn’t happened years ago. In its entirety the RC had one card balled for CEDH (until a few days ago…) I have no interest in cEDH but that’s pretty much the best outcome to resolve the fumbling of this situation.

New MTG players are in the honey moon stage with the game. I’ve been there too, but let this be a big red flag. Wotc will keep doing stuff like this, selling desirable reprints and banning them down the road. It’s predatory much like the increase of product launches. They want you to continually get out the wallet and shell out cash. Stop giving Wotc your money.

Should of been split from conception. I mean honestly I despised commander for awhile due to the fact that you play to win but not win too fast ext or just too spicy for commander. The 2 decks I have that I play are like borderline competitive. Due to trying to make em at a particular power level people get mad. Usually at power level 8 to appease. Honestly it should of been common sense to spit. First time I played cmd didn't know the difference. was confusing.. especially the winning without trying too hard to part. Lol

The issue that happened with the bans is that they targeted things that cull out most of the variety in the cEDH format. You might not realize this but the cEDH format runs under the following rules which makes it superior in a lot of ways to casual since it cuts straight through all of the whining and crap. RULES of cEDH: Play to win the game. Play within magic rules. Play cards that are legal only in the format. Build with whatever you want to be optimized at playing to win the game. That is all there is to cEDH and I've rarely ever had any issues with players. I've never experienced any issues with what other players play since they have to deal with what I'm playing that is really powerful.

Problem solved! cEDH is a faster, more expensive build with game ending combos. Make them two different formats with different ban lists, I love that idea.

They won’t split a part. Cedh is playing competitively with the banlist. It would be another format with different ban list.

CEDH doesn't need to be it's own format the RC simply needs to relabel the ban list "Banned for casual play" and then make it the full list of cards, card types or combos that are not ok for casual. Can just say 0 cost mana rocks, cards that say auto win, 2 card auto win combos power 9 etc. Then they have solved the problem because they finally defined casual and by creating that list you know if your deck has any card from that list in it your deck is not casual. Then from there casual players are protected and cedh players are not harmed by casual bans, card owners aren't hut by bans and nobody has reason to threaten anyone. Only rule 0 convo is "Are we playing casual?" and then you have casual decks or not casual decks and nobody gets pubstomped.

cEDH should split from EDH. There’s something really cool about taking 100 cards all singles and somehow still making it extremely fast. That’s part of deck building as part of magic. If it’s really about slowing it down and as well as making it a little bit more fair for the people that don’t have as much money and aren’t as fortunate or don’t have as good jobs to be able to spend so much money on certain cards then they should split.

Two formats might be ideal. Standard and brutal. Brutal has almost no banned cards basically power 9 minus time twister, ante conspiracy, silver boarders and the culturely insensitive cards. Standard edh rules committee boom done.

cEDH won't split. The moment a new cEDH card is banned like thassa's, then the cEDH players could just take the decks to high power EDH where they'll still be a problem. There is no real distinction in deckbuilding between cEDH and EDH, and because of that cEDH will never be seperate from EDH

Iona absolutely SHOULD be banned in "casual" EDH. One card that shuts down all monocolor decks is completely OP.

The reason the bans are so bad for cEDH: They are bad because any deck that could run the 3 cards does run those cards because they are that good. While most will say "hey, that cuts down on diversity of decks!" It actually allows for diversity of decks in the format and here is how. These 3 cards allow for shenanigans to happen in the format that really just goes away without these cards. They allow for a wide variety of decks to be played since you could play that 7 mana commander and expect to get it out on turn 2 while it did fundamentally broken things in terms of advantage by playing it. Any decks that need to get the commander out early now are likely not able to compete against decks that get things out turn 2 consistently with the bans. Because of this you lose the decks that are on the edge of playable in the format in terms of meeting the need to be competitive. If they now bring those commanders to the cEDH tournament they are basically only going to lose all of the games they play without a chance to win. What it will then do is push everyone into the 10 or so commanders that didn't lose a lot that are now just 10 times better than the rest of the decks. The sad part is most players don't realize that the people who are coming down and pub stomping the casuals are the high power players decks. They are the decks where they take bits and pieces of our cEDH decks and use those to beat your decks down. You are FAR and away from the bans you need to make casual play bearable and you probably poked a bear in that a lot of cEDH players don't have a place to play those strategies that aren't quite good enough to play cEDH anymore but they still want to play that deck. Those players are now going to take those decks minus the fast mana but with their over powered win cons into the casuals now since they have nowhere left to play the decks. That is where I see things going.

My play group already has been treating cEDH as a separate format. We decided that as part of our Rule Zero discussion. None of us are cEDH Players and we don't allow those power level of decks to be used in our events. So as far as we are concerned it's already a separate format.

I'd be okay with a split. CEDH is for the rich and EDH is for everyone else

Rule Zero is the only rule we need. The ban list is just a suggestion. My LGS has its own list and only nadu is on it from the recent bans. All EDH is cEDH. People want to win with their deck. Power level of cards you play determines how fast you win and how competitive the games are.

A competitive take on a forfun casual original proposition that came to be because of variation from competitive formats? Being it's own separate thing it's only logical, to me it would adress some table uneasiness with players that are not acquainted with eachother...it also could boil some more sectarism and "finger pointing" but hey, people do bad things despite good intentions so...

The mox would not be unbanned in any universe, as they disapportionally benefit high color decks. Two color decks get to play 2, where as 5 color decks get 5, that's a big issue, as higher colors is already better, and this would lead to some stagnation with what commanders get played.

Cedh isn't splitting. Do you know why? There has already been an attempt to launch a Cedh RC and it was shut down before it could even take off. More than likely by the same people who are complaining about these bans.

I call for a split I play casual , high power and cedh My mid decks do not include these banned cards. All the folks I play with will be disregarding these bans Trust has been beyond tarnished and will be liquidating everything currently not in a deck and further more continue to cash out and print a few of my long stay decks

It won't bring the value back, but if cedh players want it that's fine. My concern is what would happen is people would then use the cedh banlist to make decks, show up to casual pods and go "well it's not cedh banned, I don't agree with the main ban list. Also, it's not cedh, it's just a high powered casual" and then drop darkside and pubstomp.

How many people who actually play cEDH want a split? Seems like I'm hearing the idea mostly from casual-play voices

My one cedh deck is prossh but I recently bought a jeweled lotus for it. it runs well without the fast mana however the loss of value hurts a tad (win cons: food chain, yedora+life and limb+ sac outlet)

I think this is totally fair. Casual commander and competitive commander can be separate in their rules. Honestly for the casual, the ban list is more of a guideline anyways. For casual, groups can make their own rules

I think splitting cEDH and EDH and having separate ban lists would be a great Idea. It would help the casual players understand, as well as the cEDH players understand the power level of the decks in the pod.

I always thought cEDH was already split? My play group kind of defines these "fast mana" cards as one of the things that moves a deck to cEDH.

I would encourage players to have their own rules and ban lists, at least for home or friend play groups. It would also be nice to see the community take more power back, just ignore Wotc or the edh committee. Make your own committee, do your own thing.

I’m hoping the format doesn’t splinter. There are other options here, a data driven, WotC supported software for guiding rule 0 conversations allows for space for both communities. The format was a self regulating concept and has grown to a point where it needs help with those conversations but not in the way of bans. CEDH only feels like it needs to separate currently because instead of investing in that tool we are being told that our play style is not a consideration. This genuinely is not a healthy way to govern a diverse group of people and player interests, but there are truly other options than splintering.