EEVblog  

Service guarantees citizenship!

Giveth thy beans!

I'm in

@@EEVblog It is a performance enhancing drug. We will have the advantage... at least for a little while.

Does decaf count?

*snort*

That's one way to consume coffee, I guess.

Hats off! I was totally thinking that as Dave was going over the mains input section... oh here's a couple fuses, a few MOV's here and a PTC there...

The reason for that is it basically has a boiler in it. If there was a malfunction that led to runaway heating, it would result in an explosion.

@@EEVblog Did Weller send those "CAUTION: 120V only" stickers in the background near the end? Safety by stickers! Like those "dont put over your head" symbols on plastic bags.

I don't think that this is about any sort of "comfort zone" that big D might - or might not have ....* But I love the comment cause cavemam analogy ! :D *he often times operates out of his, let's say "field of comfortable expertise" and makes wild guesses quite easily. Here I feel he mostly really wants to hammer home the message that "he doesn't like coffee (even to the extent that he doesn't know how it's made).... That's one of those Dave things the he does, but doesn't need, well... I like him nevertheless - that craze Aussie Bloke ;)

Cavemam, lol.

Dave is a caveman. Sounds like it.

It's nearly as bad as when AvE tries to explain electronics..

@@ElectraFlarefire Yeah, and iirc, AvE even did a better job of explaining how a coffee machine works than Dave did here. At least AvE gives a shit when he tries to explain electronics.

I like the idea of counting beans better, so I'm running with that.

@@EEVblog yes ok 🤣😁

@@EEVblog Bean counter. Right

@@EEVblog Thats the trouble with Weller they've got to many bean counters.

@@viz_aviz9189 boom-tish

The way this things comes apart it would be hard to see in action with the panels off.

@@EEVblog dremel to the rescue!

Regarding plastic infernos: Thermostats can latently, undetectably fail short/open. It's not likely, but it is possible. That's a single failure that leaves the device in a latently unsafe condition. Putting a thermal fuse in series with the thermostat is simple, cheap insurance that the device will not become unsafe under single failure conditions. It is far easier to put the fuse is than it is to substantiate that the thermostat alone will keep the device safe. For domestic equipment whose function requires getting quite hot I think it would be very hard to justify not having both protection methods since a failure could lead to fire, property damage, injury, or death. The safety analysis should not consider how the device is meant to work or assume that any part of it will function properly under failure conditions. Safety analysis should only consider the consequences of possible failures and their mitigation. In this case the thermostat's single-failure modes are mitigated by the thermal fuse and vice-versa. Good design practice.

The heater blocks tend to clog up with any minerals in the water. If you don't clean the machine, the water channels will eventually clog completely. Without water running through the block, they can get hot spots fast.

You should of torn this down Clive.

Even David's knowledge was very rusty. No milk goes through the machine! And steam doesn't go through the grouphead.

Nice one SDG. At least someone here has a clue. I'm a bit of a coffee wanker, I have a big grinder and a Gaggia Espresso machine. I even used to buy my own green beans and roast em myself.

@@rationalmartian Same apart from the green beans. I buy them in from Hasbean roasted to order just to remove one variable. They are a very consistent supplier.

@@sdgelectronics Definitely. If that thing had milk go on the beans - that's why it got thrown away.

@@sdgelectronics Steam does go through the group head to clear/dry the portafilter in some automated machines. (To push excess water out and dry the puck.)

Can you imagine if someone put milk in the water hopper? It would ruin and clog that machine so fast and smell horrible.

@@twjonckheere exactly my thought when i kept hearing dave try to break it down lol

twjonckheere At my old workplace, I was surrounded by coffee addicts (I myself am like Dave and don’t care for it), and the coffee machine wore out from 15 coffee drinkers each getting 5 cups a day. So they decided to upgrade to a machine intended for heavier use (like, suitable for a small cafeteria), and someone suggested looking into the automatic dairy option (which would enable one-touch lattes, cappuccinos, etc). They quickly rejected that option when they looked into the maintenance it required: flushing the milk system with special cleaner ***twice daily***. (Only a handful of the drinkers took milk at all, so it just wasn’t worth it.) I guess that as an emulsion containing fats, sugars, and protein, milk sticks to everything.

@@tookitogo You can get a powdered milk version. Just make sure it's not very humid where the machine is. You still should clean it, but not as often.

That would be disgusting. Milk is full of proteins that would leave behind residue then cook into solid plastic. Have you ever warmed milk in a saucepan, the skin it leaves on the bottom of the pan? Imagine that only in the heater cores...

Thanks for the detail!

I think if Dave juiced up on coffee he may have been able to deduce that on his own.

Thanks. Saved me from typing the same thing. 😉

Hot water ejected from the frother would make a mess. If the water heater isn’t doing its job you get messed on. Only STEAM!

Rýán Túçk you obviously haven't used one of these. They pretty universally have a hot water option and it comes out of the steam wand /frother. And yes if you don't have a cup under it there'll be hot water all over. Same issue when you use them in steam mode, there's always some water at the start. They also do not always produce very dry steam. In short thermo lock units are usually inferior to boilers.

Chris Robinson ima guess it makes coffee 200x better than what I have

Most likely it has not actually failed, probably just needed to be properly cleaned, though with those heaters they do not like poor quality water, so they can corrode on the inside and leave a deposit in the water of sloughed off aluminium oxides. Just taking the unit and cleaning the grinder area, the press side and stripping and degreasing the brew end would have made it work well again, getting rid of the most likely fault, poor tasting bitter coffee. Sad though that these machines also have built into the menu system a self clean function, which simply runs through a brew cycle without sending any coffe beans through the grinder, ad also upping the temperature of the boiler slightly, so that the hot water and steam can clean the stainless steel filter mesh and the tubing of residue, though some also have an optional cleaning fluid ( basically a mild acid and detergent blend) that is placed in the water supply, and which then is run through in the clean cycle, before draining the tank and doing a half dozen rinse cycles to get it out. At my local bank they have some Azoyken machines, and I tend to run the unit through a cleaning cycle before getting a coffee out of it, it does make a difference to the machine. The semi automatic machine I often ask for the operator to wash the head before using it, and dry it under the steam nozzle, so as to get the oils out. They did not believe that you can dismantle those heads to clean inside, and now bleach them nightly (new catering group) and they are actually metal colour, not dark brown in the nozzle. Coffee machine service guy I talked to says the most common faults are not cleaning the heads properly, and poor water filters, along with adjusting the temperatures too high, plus not cleaning the grinder regularly. Grind then use, not grind till it stops because the output hopper is full.

@@zachburke8906 Probably not, now Dave has ripped the insides out LOL ;-)

cant be repaired now!

I would have plugged it in just to see what it did and attempted a repair, probably nothing more than a single component failure. At least part it out for fun and experimentation, and just use it as a grinder.

Thanks.

EEVblog - ladies and gentlemen, the most disinterested man on the internet...

The guy is finally showing he is not that smart after all.

He just shows he's uncomfortable talking about stuff he doesn't fully understand

@@EEVblog en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirator_(pump)

Actually NO that's not the reason been a professional coffee maker for 18 years Look as the coffee beans as resistance or a resistor if you will or a load yes the sensor sensors when there is no more coffee is in the plastic holder NOTICE HOWEVER, THAT THE SENSOR ALLOWS FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF COFFEE BEANS TO SIT IN THE GRINDING ELEMENT BENEATH IT Now. if you completely empty the grinding element and turned the grinder ON, you fuck the gears. look at like starting your car with no engine oil so the sensor in a fully auto coffee machine is as safety so that the grinders gears don't fuck up , WHICH ARE EXPENSIVE TO REPLACE, that's what it's for it's not to ensure that there is enough coffee to start making the next one coffee, although this is part of the reason, but certainly not the primary reason it is also possible that the sensor measures 1 shot of coffee, although there is no question that it would cut off so as to not damage the metal gears the reason for protecting the gears is that they have precise adjustments , down to a mm difference to adjust the fine or course setting of the ground coffee AND AS EXTRA CREDIT POINTS Just like Volts Amps and Ohms are directly proportional to each other in a coffee machine Amount of Coffee in the Basket Amount of water pressure Course or Fine grind are also proportional Example le'ts just say the shot of the coffee is the same amount of grams EACH TIME, let's make it a constant however, if the water pours for 35 seconds, and the coffee is ground FINE it should cause the coffee flow rate to pour a shot that takes exactly 22 seconds, which should pour 30ml of coffee now given this, if you keep the amount of coffee the same if you keep the water flow rate the same but you make the coffee more course, YOU'RE GOING TO GET A BIGGER SHOT but the main point is IT WOULDN'T EXTRACT AS WELL but, make it too fine AND IT BURNS THE COFFEE and you get nasty burnt tasting coffee so it's about Amount of coffee in the basket in grams course of fineness of the grind Temperature of the water Flow rate of the water itself the end resulting coffee shot should take 22 seconds to pour and produce a 30ml SINGLE SHOT, double shots are different however so as you can see, it's a very touchy feely kinda thing and if you ever work in coffee and on your first day you change the grinder setting just to see what it'll do , DON'T BE SUPRISED IF THE BOSS BITES YOUR FUCKING HEAD OFF

@myVash1984 i know it doesn't count every bean but if you notice... The sensor is located at the base of the plastic cone and BELOW THAT CONE there is still room for some coffee beans to stay in the grinder teeth itself. the point i was making was .... if the grinder teeth have no coffee to grind they get damaged so the sensor is essentially cutting off while leaving coffee in the grinder teeth when there is a minimal amount if it didn't do this , the grinder itself would not last too long

Martin Kuliza why would they get damaged

@Coronadraht yeah it could be that as well it could be sensing if the bean pot is correctly seated in 2 points... that's true

@Coronadraht yes, that's my understanding, too, and the reason why I questioned the previous "statement".

not "a fuse", multiple fuses, three separate ones _per heating element_ not to mention all that that input filtering

@Proscriptus No they move really really fast. Just not in one particular direction very fast.

His hatred of coffee is blinding him to the beautiful simplicity of the machine

Do they need a special module in Australia coffee makers to correct the flow of water? (Since toilets spin the wrong direction there and everything.) :-)

@@linagee no they just empty the bean packet from the bottom so it all adds up xD

Classic third wave engineer. absolutely obsessed with the things they like, incredulous when they need to pay attention to things they do not like. When they observe something and it doesn't immediately pass their initial smell test, it is discarded with disdain, and anyone who tries to be reasonable about it are beneath their mighty intellect. If you watch the video carefully, you can see the subjects he's discarded and disdains, and doesn't give more than a couple brain cells processing to them, but he will slow down and actually think a little if it's something that draws his eye.

@@SuperAWaC I can see quite a bit of that, for sure. But don't we all do that to some degree?

SuperAWaC - LOL, over-analysing much? Perhaps, just perhaps, people aren't interested in all the things they see.

EEVblog exactly. For new players, the old intro mentioned being ‘off the cuff’, and I for one still can appreciate not having to read your mind. Carry on, as you were.

Dave has finally showed his STUPID side. Electronics are basic, he is just destroying himself in this video. Keeps saying I DONT KNOW. We LEARN by doing these tear downs. COME ON DAVE!

That’s a bit mean, I like Dave and appreciate his hard work. He admits he doesn’t know much about how this particular machine works and he’s trying to figure it out. Because WE asked him to do it nonetheless! This is how we learn, all together as a community. Dave’s strong suits may not be the systems in this machine, but he knows his electronics solidly and I’m sure he’s a master of his professional crafts. Keep up all your hard work Dave!

Triggered was my intention :-P

@@EEVblog Don't listen to the haters Dave. The only thing a wise man can say he knows is the extent of his own ignorance.

BlackEpyon m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8eDYVtPwWiM.html

You're welcome.

His STUPID is finally showing...way to go Dave.

Isn’t the usual complaint around how clichè it has become to call out the device and manufacturer for excessive cheapening? None of that rubbish to complain of in this teardown!

I was shooting for disdain.

😄

@@EEVblog It came through into the quality of the teardown though. You should have had coffee dude do the teardown and just provided commentary.

I only saw avarice. I miss something? Is he really not going to salvage the parts or was the comment about it now being worth naught written in all honesty?

@@HighestRank That's all I got from it too. (And still getting from the looks of things down here.)

Why is it a shame that someone doesn't like what you like? It's a big world, and there are lot of people with a lot of experiences, perhaps, just perhaps, they simply just don't like it... or perhaps they actually like the fact that they don't like it... What's wrong with them not liking it? Someone could say the same to you about anything you don't like. Trying to convert people is starting to sound rather like religion...

Fellow third waver here! I have realized over the years that the perspective of the Chef's Table tv show and shows like it that take part in food snobbery, that is sometimes laughable, I realize that others think that of coffee. Relatives not letting go of the "Don't put milk in it!" mantra

Exact same model? No good?

Coffee-o-Matic, or the crappy coffee maker. Makes me glad I drink instant over the nasty stuff that can make, and I like my coffee. I walk through Starbucks to the place behind them, the coffee is better there, and they make it fresh while you wait. 2 cups, recycling the first cup for the second to go, while I wait for the freshly made chicken salad, or Strips n slaw, or the piri piri chicken livers.

@@NeuronalAxon Not the exact same model. Ours had a larger touch screen and the ability to pull in milk from a tiny fridge attachment. My guess would be newer model of this machine maybe?

Did you "office space" it when it said "PC Load Letter" on the display?

Did it only accept year old beans? [ERROR 365: BEANS TOO FRESH]

Timothy Giles that it was solicited was the disclaimer.

Yeah it is, specifically I was going to talk about the portafilter and that if I were to choose I'd pick machine with one.

An engineer that doesn't need a drug to keep their brain working.

Dave just has a sip of liquid flux every now and then to keep things flowing

EEVblog chocolate has caffeine

Slick Six - SHUT. UP.

I'm an engineer, I hate coffee too.

Last week I tried to repair a B70. 2 solenoids, 1 air pump, and a bunch of busted plastic clips later, I had to give up. I feel guilty about tweeting Dave he should do a repair video on the coffee machine.

for2utube, don’t feel bad: When I started working on 2-cycle engines I realized that it takes first sourcing every component you desire to remove because the stuff breaks if you’re careful, and many fasteners 🧷 are accompanied by hidden shims of critical measurements.

Pretty rusty lol :)

*coarse. *fine AKA “tight”

Bert1268 the water tank was spotless. Users might not have known the rest came apart so ‘easily’. Figure that the cord has to be tagged directly and you’ve got the indicator c. the general knowledge of machinery. If I didn’t do my own house mains, every place I’ve lived in would have caught fire and burnt down from pre-existing wiring faults, tagged devices or not.

Chill out dude.

Acquired taste. That he evidently couldn’t smell the dust in the machine, whereby we yanks claim the smell to be paramount, might say more about the product available than the drinker, not to mention the quoted price is believable yet outrageous.

EEVblog chill how? He hasn’t even had his first cup yet. At $~100 per bag probably saved enough for a timeshare trailer in crankBerry Land.

@MikrySoft An elegantly articulated and thoughtful comment. Who'd've expected that reaction?

It's literally a coffee machine teardown blog, what is your problem 😂

Thanks

I've been doing this for probably 40 years and it's how my boys learned which end of the screwdriver to use. We took apart hundreds of machines, of all types, kept all the parts, including the circuit boards as Dave suggests. Now I have a shed full... I actually tore into a broken keyless chuck today just to see how it worked.

@@AffordBindEquipment Nice

ELECTROHAXZ kinda wish I’d have kept half the things I’ve torn apart till I was able to fix them. First world remorse.

@@HighestRank Yeah depends what the stuff was though

Paweljazzz incorrigible * I think the disgust was only a sleight of character.

*secret handshake*

I hope everyone's happy, my lab smells like shit now.

EEVblog - I was on the fence about getting it, slightly interesting but YUCK the dirt in it!

The Defpom's Repair Channel I should post a picture of the guts on mine, I haven’t been keeping it clean and these newer ones spill a fair bit more ground coffee than the older ones. You’re supposed to remove and clean that brew group routinely. Which for me means taking the shop vac to it usually before running it through hot water and brushing it down then letting it dry.

@@EEVblog That is because it was SHIT stale coffee that was in it!

There was nothing wrong with it, was there?

If I bothered to sit down and think about it for a bit instead of doing an on the fly teardown I could have figured out how most of it worked I'm sure.

its a 'white van speaker scam' quality bean to cup coffee machine, you couldn't make it any cheaper.

The internals look remarkably similar to my Jura machine at home.

That reminds me of Chris Boden of the Geek Group saying that.

AvE :D

That’d be fixed in post when your app detected it and increased the playback bitrate and resolution, all without buffering nor sound hiccup.

Cockroach ootheca, their egg bundles are done in a casing.

get a bunch of people together (like in an office building), and the randomness factor multiples, so you're sure to always find something interesting.

One complete with aged coffee beans, but which attracts fair weather friends who want teardowns done live in front of them using 4K videoconferencing videography.

Jock Murphy I haven’t blamed Obama yet, thx for the reminder.

China gets a lot of flak in this area, some deserved of course. But remember they manufacture to spec. If the design calls for cheap shit, that's what they make. If it requires quality and was designed as such, the output will match.

The only thing worse than a RU-vid commenter complaining, is one complaining and getting their math wrong.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

Don’t mail him a bag of beans and expect gratitude. Some people can’t get that simple message through their skulls. Without 5MM fumms somebody’s figure he’s hired a barista and has a coffee grinder, so why not? Now we ALL *should know he had neither.

really? that's honestly pretty cool.

@@greenbanana311 Yeah. I make light of it, but it was a full manual machine, so knowing how to use it properly was pretty cool.

And who are Saeco on the multimeter brand level gauge, say from ANENG to Fluke.

EEVblog saeco is towards the top (keysight) some think Jura (fluke) is better but at least in USA Jura doesn’t sell parts and doesn’t allow anyone else service their machines, you have to ship them to New Jersey. Saeco was bought by Philips. I’m not familiar with this machine, but the coffee mechanism looks like a saeco.

Yep, I have and old (dumpster dive :-) + a day of cleaning) saeco and the internals look similar.

@@jakp8777 Actually Saeco is mid line consumer garbage at best.

wayne parris ok so who’s a better make of consumer superautomatic?

I, I, I LOVE you man! (Nohomo)

Nerd culture within a nerd culture. Personally though, I think this thing is vastly overpriced for how (not) well it's built. Nothing near as well built as the KitchenAid mixer, but also not nearly the kind of scam that is Jucero. AvE has tear-downs of both.

@@BlackEpyon LOL, yep, we each have our own "thing" :P This particular machine is consumer grade which is kind of code for lots of troubles, inconsistent results and never GREAT coffee.

@@wayneparris3439 I'll drink day old coffee cold and I'm not picky at all about the machine. The $25 drip maker suits me just fine. BTW, if you haven't seen AvE's tear-downs of those two, they're worth watching.

@@BlackEpyon Well there ya go. I can't drink that or even brewed coffee over an hour old in an air pot and never on a warmer. I have been inside every coffee machine I own and there are about a dozen at the moment. The same for the over a dozen grinders too. Enjoy what you drink, I know I do!

So do i. I don't drink coffee.

I about 99% of the time I drink tea and yes I'm English

I drink both without prejudice so I’m a Martian.

Martin _ you might just not let the *next ad play instead of impetuous prudence. I for one am not able to see those rankings until a video is finished, for reasons unknown to me.

You're welcome.

@@EEVblog i hope you got that i was messing around becaus i would hate for my joke be be understood as a insult

robot797, we would read “sir you are messing with us” as a realization, not a question.

@@HighestRank good my grammar isnt that good so i have to make sure people understand what i mean

You're welcome

Why?

@@user93237 To be a smartass

​@@user93237 A lot of errors and false assumptions. Plus, constanly bragging about how he do not like coffee.

@@user93237 well. Some parts seem like he is not noticing obvious things. For example you run a 20-50 watt motor to grind and dispense the beans so it would be obvious to stall the machine when it's empty but he went with... Counting the beans? I'm sorry but that was just not even funny

Jeff Becker Butthurt about people using the term snowflakes? Me thinks you don't like the term because you identify as such :)

@ Jeff Becker Considering that people drink 1.4 billion cups of coffee a day worldwide; and about 45 percent of it (400 million per day) is drunk in the United States where 54% of the adult population drink it daily: I'd say you're right about the snowflake thing.

Green Rabbid Rabbit I don’t see where the OP used “snowflake”, just the first responder. Yours seems to suffer from bit- rot.

@@HighestRank It's the fourth word in their comment.

Let'em, it'll be hilarious.

A hit piece? The mob throwing stool pigeons into a coffee machine? Sounds a little too DC Batman storyboard for TV 1964, not a 2019 comic.

@@EEVblog It would be, at least initially. But we really don't need that kind of crap.

I tastes like shit.

Coffee is almost like booze, if you don't drink it people think you are some sort of a mutant.

EEVblog LOL. Fair enough. Thanks for the video! :)

Sam Arb I’m not personally fussed one way or the other. The point I was driving at was one of ubiquity. It would have been harder to escape it as an Australian youth than as an American or English youth.

Dave’s some sort of Aussie mutant ;)

Learn to recognise sarcasm.

@@EEVblog Sorry, but you are calling people "idiot" and yelling them to "SHUT. UP." on the comments.. Why bother? I am not referring to your videos btw

Abdullah Kahraman he was joking.

@@AbdullahKahramanPhD Oh dear, "SHUT. UP." is SARCASM when taken in context, you should study it some more.

@@EEVblog Apparently the guy you've told this sarcasm to didn't understand it, neither..

Two comments up people are talking about how well it was built. Hahaha oh internet I love you.

actually this one is much more accessible than the one i repaired, the brewing unit can be removed easily and all major parts are serviceable without full disassembly. but still, 99% plastic and its designed to fail. theyre all designed to fail and they are way too expensive for whats actually in there.

Paying for Marketing Wank, innit?

Repair it and gift it to your locally disenfranchised American in Oz. They’ll give it more love.

Moka Pot!

Uh, French press, no thanks, don't like drinking grit. Moka pot, nope, burnt coffee as it uses steam to build pressure. A proper drip or Aeropress does deliver a nice cup without the FP sludge but as like most things in life, everyone is different and likes different things! Drink your coffee with any brew method you like but DO use fresh, less than 30 days from ROASTING and of a high quality to start with!

Always and only use fresh ground beans. It looses all it's taste within 15 minutes. Aeropress with metal filter is the way to go.

@@wayneparris3439 Drinking grit? Nothing else can be said other than you doing it wrong or you have a bad press. Ive been using a french press for almost two decades and can say with 100% certainty that I have never had any grit in my coffee. A french press uses a washable fine metal mesh that will filter out any grit and let all the coffees lipids through, unlike a paper filter. I used to hate coffee and never understood why people liked it. I thought it tasted like crap. That was until I had coffee from a french press and it changed my entire perspective. The lipids which paper filters dont let through, make the coffee taste so much better. As usual, people are lazy and dont want to spend and extra 4 minutes making coffee and automated it and used throwaway paper filters. This ruined coffee.

@@finkelmana I drink 99.999% espresso using commercial grinder and machine, at the rather pointy end of the equipment pile. I could buy a nice used car for the investment on my coffee bar. Yes I have had good FP, but fines still get through. The trick with FP is to not pour the bottom of the press into the cup and to not drink the last of the coffee in the cup while drinking slowly with the last half of the cup to prevent the sludge at the bottom from being consumed. On the occasions where I do drink other than espresso, a well rinsed paper filter, for me, results in a much better cup. By all means, drink it however you like, all I said is I don't like it! :P

Makes sense.