It's tine for the mid season finale! ZAMBIES! PEOPLE BEING MEAN! WALKING! TALKING! and just a little sprinkling of themes. With the arrival of episode 5, it seems the EFAP crew are becoming more and more impressed...
@@Kernwadi Definitely - what makes The Last of Us exceptional to me, is all of it's elements coming together so well. All while being limited by the amount of memory available on PlayStation 3 at the time.
@@Arcane_10_out_of_10 Unironically, David Cage is leagues better than Druckmann. His stories might be nonsensical in all regards and his fetish of short haired showering women is creepy, but the games are fun, and they don't make you feel miserable by the end. Like, you can play Heavy Rain and just laugh at the funny-bad while making a bunch of uncouth, out of character choices. The Last of Us 2 is just pure misery. Everyone is bad, hateful, vindictive, and the only positive message comes from the story contradicting itself to justify it.
That was probably one of the most intense zombie horde scenes I’ve seen in a while. They all swarmed out of there like a swarm ants from a disturbed hill collectively. Seeing a wall of creatures get mowed down while still pushing through gave me Starship Trooper vibes fr.
Not only did Joel turn over in his sleep he also didn’t get any sleep the prior night and also climbed a whole bunch of stairs. I’d bet he would be out like a rock.
If their drive to kansas city was a single day, then the last time Joel slept was...the night that Tess died? Before they made it Bill and Frank's house?
The only major critique I have of this episode is Joel not checking everyone for bites as soon as they made it safely to the hotel at the end. Everything I've been shown so far tells me he wouldn't risk skipping that, especially after seeing everyone grapple with zombies.
Anyone else loving Jon being here? I think he compliments the efap crew very well, and I'm glad that since efap 92 he's become a more and more regular guest. Thumbs up!
@@ithewho6603 I can respect that but good god I cannot stand him😂 maybe I just went to school with too many insufferable kids that spoke EXACTLY like him but he constantly makes me cringe when he’s on EFAP
@@proudsaiyanprince2651 I am just really really dreading when she-hulk comes storming into the story. Only thing I am looking forward if they still go in that direction are watching Abby’s friends dying again.
@@Bonesawisready926 Holy shit I haven’t even thought about live action Fat Geralt. Is there a man on earth powerful enough to do his character justice?
I'm a bit dissapointed the crew didn't talk about how Ellie fell asleep when Sam asked her to stay awake and has to live with that guild that she let Sam turn alone as implied by the "i'm sorry" at the end.
I think the 'I'm sorry' thing is actually in reference to the fact Ellie told Sam that her blood would cure him, Ellie feels like she lied to Sam or let him down.
@@thesmilinggun-knight9646 Could be both but the fact that she promised him she'd stay awake with him makes me think that's what the "I'm sorry" was for. Because Sam probably felt scared and alone as he was turning
It was a strong moment for sure. Though Ellie falling asleep in the same room as a highy hostile infected Sam is a bit tism. In this scenerio she should either be severly injured or dead.
That "I'm sorry" can mean many things and that's the beauty of it. It could also mean I'm sorry I couldn't save you, or simply I'm sorry I didn't get to you faster to save you from getting bit.
It's quite hard to fuck up, either have your avenger succeed and be miserable, realize it's pointless and come out the better OR as in this case have them fail at revenge because them being hyper focused on it bit them in the ass. TLOU 2 tried to do it all. Ellie was hyper focussed on revenge, had a change of heart and was miserable in the end.
@@lennynull-funf-zehn5416 Ellie also killed like a thousand people to get to her target and she never learned a single damn thing about the character of her target that would make her change her mind. With how pointless it all was, it wouldn't surprise me of Abby tries to get revenge on Ellie with a monster truck anyway after LOUS2 because why the hell not? Abby didn't learn anything about Ellie other than she's a mass murderer.
@@lennynull-funf-zehn5416 I want to see a story where the protagonist takes revenge and feels good about it, and lives a good life afterwards…except for Abby
Honestly that shocked scream / gasp Ellie's actress did during Henry's death was a legit 10/10 performance. Something about the audio and how good it was makes me wonder if it was done in post or something, because you don't really see her mouth move much when it happens. If that really was all done in scene that's actually very impressive.
I've been a Bella Ramsey "hater" this entire show, but yeah, I gotta give it up. That moment was incredible on her part and absolutely worthy of praise.
I'm definitely on the side of keep showing the game bits, it's super cool to have a direct comparison right there without me having to go set it up myself.
@@proudsaiyanprince2651 eh, they look not too far off where you could reasonably say they’re Italian Americans. Plus it’s not like they throw the change in your face or anything so while not preferable I have no problem with it.
I disagree that it wasnt just fan service. That guy was just... the recognisable soldier man. He looked cool, he spoke to our antagonist and followed instructions. Ultimately, not seeing much past Captain Phasma. To clarify, it was better in that he interacted a little more with his superior and the actor had a... face to act with, but it isnt far beyond Phasma-tier fan service
i bet. also, you should really play or watch the game online. maybe not now because ur watching the show but when it ends. the storytelling is just incredible. of course the tv show is great too, but i dont think it can even compare right now. goddamn dont experience tlou part 2 though, it ruins everything
@@IncredibleGoliath the gameplay is pretty standard yeah, and just because the game doesn’t have dialogue trees doesn’t mean it’s not special. The game doesn’t need dialogue trees nor would it fit. And yes of course there are other games with amazing stories, but I think the last of us really resonated with a lot of people including me
It is been really hard for me the last couple of days in Syria with the earthquake and all, watching the show than your video afterwards were the perfect escape to rest my mind and think of something else, thanks for the good content.
Wait... so, regarding the difference between the game and show with regard to Ellie saving Joel by killing someone, and the resulting character reactions to that... you're basically criticizing the game for doing more show and less tell, and crediting the show for doing more tell and less show. Lolwtf? You even acknowledge that the subtext is there to explain the emotional and character development taking place, but you prefer the show because they had a more explicit conversation to spoon feed you this in an expedited manner (that, btw may undermine the overall substance of the character bonds going forward). Since when did more tell less show become a good thing? My how standards have been entirely flipped on their head.
What standards? Since when did we all agree that "show don't tell" is automatically the better approach? I know a lot of video essayists love to dish out that writing advice like its a rule, when it should be used as a guideline instead. Real people aren't always so subtle when emotions are running high. Where as game Joel can't even bring himself to thank Ellie for saving his life. Joel here immediately recognizes Ellie is not in the best emotional state and that he ought to choose his words carefully if he wants to hammer in the message Game Ellie did not need a pep talk because mere seconds after that, the game just has Ellie get over her first kill so she can go snipe some guys for Joel. Its not until Ellie kills David that they try and acknowledge any residual trauma there
Giving Sam leukemia is ridiculously over the top and makes the fact that he’s still alive completely unrealistic. Not only is it preposterous that they could even diagnose his condition in this post apocalyptic world, but the idea that a simple chemotherapy is enough to keep him alive is ridiculous. Remember, the world fell apart in 2003. Back then there were much less effective chemotherapies and a much lower survival rate for acute lymphatic leukemia (the one Sam most likely has considering his young age). So unless the government continued research into cancer drug development, which is highly unlikely considering that everyone’s focus would be on Cordyceps, Sam’s chances of survival are slim to none. Why the show just didn’t say that he had a high fever or something is beyond me. Especially considering how much they’ve shown an interest in grounding the show in real science as seen with their understanding of Cordyceps.
Hey what are you doing giving very reasonable and well thought out criticisms to this at best mediocre show?! This is EFAP were we pretend that this show is increadibly great and that any criticisms thrown its way are not convincing enough to pull it down from the status of greatness! Anyways, soon a new season with Mando will begin in which EFAP will start watching it with bad faith and nitpick and criticize every minuscule thing that happens in that show no matter how good or bad it is!
@@unclepain10 Oh yeah, a small detail that doesn't affect the plot in any lasting or impactful way is the reason the show is not great. Amazing 70 iq level thinking you have going there
@@unclepain10 It really is sad to see that EFAP, critics who supposedly value objectivity more than anything, clearly being biased to things they personally enjoy. Like you said, the show isn't terrible. However, it does have quite a bit of contrivances that actively undermine the story they are trying to go for. Things that EFAP would normally tear to shreds, yet now are conveniently ignoring. For example, we learn that FEDRA drove all the infected underground. Excuse me, what?! How tf did they do that? And even if somehow they got them there (still unbelievable), why are they all collected under one single house just to pop out as a horde when our protagonists are about to be cornered. Also, mighty convenient that the truck blew up an entry point for them at all. There are countless others. The kinds of things Mauler would make an unbridled rage about, yet that are just not being acknowledged because the crew like the show and don't want to hold it to the same standard they hold things they dislike.
@@Chickawah This, I don’t even like this channel but remember them from some popular videos nitpicking about everything and when I come looking to enjoy some nitpicking of this mediocre series and shitty adaptation of this perfect game, they’re just praising everything.
20:16 you completely ignored the bit n the game where Joel's says "and just so we're clear about back there.. It was either him or me", that's his acknowledgement and thanks to Ellie that she was right. Ellie even says your welcome in response.
When it comes to acting, I agree with Meme's take in the Snyder Cut video, with the looking at eyes and seeing if there's an inner monologue there. As an actor, that's something I've struggled with in the past, because it's a damn hard thing to do
I love you guys but you're being hypocrites. Writing this show yourself to explain issues and just giving it way too much credit that it doesn't deserve. Why give this show such credit and leeway when you don't for anything else.. Normally you guys are strictly objective and I love how you guys review and analyse but you guys aren't looking at this show completely objective. Please remove your clear opinion and self-explaining that you always criticise others for doing.
I had the exact same thought when they made the point about Last of Us Part 2 done right with Kathleen trying to get revenge despite the infected pouring out. That is the attitude Ellie should've had by the end of the game and actually gone through with it but instead they backpedaled last second. Hopefully this show in season 2 does it properly but who knows.
I would put money on Cuckman wanting to keep Season 2 exactly the same as Last of us part 2, so he's massaging part 1 to fit with part 2 now. So far the show is good, but there is a timer in the back of my head to when it'll turn to shit.
the moment she had that terrified shudder when Henry, a friend, killed himself in front of her, while possibly looking at her... she has now definitely grown on me. that was better than the game, where she just says "oh my god" as if she's still shocked but has already seen it.
Honestly, I liked the whole scene better than the game. I'm willing to accept that it might just be mostly my preferences with the direction they take it in, but I found the whole dynamic of Ellie comforting and hugging Sam super endearing and heartbreaking. But yes, Bella Ramsey's acting in the last scene, especially that shuddering half-scream, trumps the game for me and I'm fully on board with her as Ellie now.
The game cuts away without a reaction from anyone, left to our imagination sort of thing. I love that the show takes every opportunity to get a solid reaction shot from Ellie
It's weird you guys compliment the network thing and how it's not random on a scene where it didn't involve the network and was completely random (a car happening to crash right about the zombie hole at just the right time) I feel like other times you guys would have at least made a note of something like it being convenient. Like as an audience member I at least have "oh I expected the sniper to be aware the guy running towards him he was shooting at was coming towards him" But maybe that's just me.
I was under the impression that the the truck crashing and exploding was what drew the infected and made them dig to that location, rather than it happening to crash near the hole. The second point might be a fair one, though. Can't currently think of any counters to it.
with the sniper it was his job just to keep them there, notice how he was purposely focusing on the majority instead to keep them from moving close themselves. He got the mission done, also all of those houses or most of them are connected to the underground tunnels, they 100% got lucky but the foundation was already built on that fact alone
@@leonhartdragomir8948 Im assuming it had to be conveniently linked underground because the vehicle fell down. The entire area under a city isn't really hollow so it's extremely convenient the part they crashed through (which I believe was just under a house) happened to be in a place it could fall through and was connected to where the zombies were. I mean the first hole we saw was like in the city this seems decently far away and obviously that doesn't mean they couldn't be out here it just seems like we have to make a couple logical leaps and admit it's a very lazy setup to get to a very convenient conclusion.
@@rasenganmaster101 "guess I'll die" could have just you know ... shot him. Could have closed the door, in fact that excuse sucks because he could have tried to stall for more time if that's all he cared about. That wasn't a very good excuse dude.
The entire underground is packed with infected -- we learn this in this episode. The infected are trying to dig up, being attracted by human activity -- we see this in the previous episode. Truck drives into a house and explodes, activating the infected (all of them because of the network), and they dig up through the weakened floor, causing a collapse. The truck didn't just happen to drive into a zombie hole, it created one when it exploded. As for the sniper, he was old and it was dark. Probably couldn't see shit, which is why he couldn't hit anything. He saw Joel move off to the side and disappear, but the remaining three people were still out on the road. You want the guy to be aware of the fact that Joel isn't abandoning them, but sniper guy didn't watch the previous four episodes. He doesn't know Joel.
In the game, Joel was at the point of starting to like Ellie, but he didn't like that, he didn't want that. I guess you can compare it to something when a person you don't like doing something good, or something that you like, but you can't stand that person's guts, and you just need to find a reason to yell at them or smth. That's exactly why he was so harsh when she saved his life. And that's why he eventually when he cooled down he gave her the gun and pretty much said his "thank you" by saying "it was either him or me". That's probably when he just started to warm up to her, talking to her normally, teacher her about safety of the gun, etc. In the show, it's almost like they are rushing to the point when he's going to like Ellie like a daughter. And I get it - it's a tv show, there are only 9 or 10 episodes in the first season, but that's exactly the point. You can even notice how they establish this supervillain who wants to catch Henry and Sam, and she is dead in the next episode. It's almost as if they are trying to replicate The Walking Dead in some aspects, but speedrunning straight to the emotions part, and it's just not exactly working.
The backstory for Henry REALLY made his scene with Sam and how they ended up hit HARD. Henry was a rat for a terribly heinous group and got what's her face's brother killed and basically ushered in a ton of extra suffering for the people around him to save his brother. And seeing him process that and then make that last decision is just fucking heavy. Good stuff.
Im not angry, Im just disappointed. So let me get this straight... a magic portal - if you please - opens up in a meeting spot of ALL RELEVANT PARTIES after a truck explodes inside a house that just so happens to crash there and ignite. That happens at peak drama between all the involved humans,conveniently interrupting all the deaths and executions, MILES AND MILES away from where the horde was established, which now seems to have tunnels to travel through and they even have tracking technology too (because lets be honest - this stupid change with connected vines and roots is just a super-excuse to spawn zombies at will). And in that attack, all the 'good' guys survive, while all the 'bad' guys die while one of the good guys has infinite ammo?! Im sorry... this is convenient writing 101. It ticks every single box and more. This is horrible in an otherwise good episode.
To be fair, they do establish that the infected are all underground and there are clickers among them. Kathleen, in her infinite wisdom, has brought out several vehicles and asks them to hit parked cars to get them out of the way, thus making a shit ton of noise as they move towards Joel and co. So, if the clickers heard them leaving the main camp and followed them, as a hive the rest of the infected would follow suit. I don't like it either (especially since those infected are supposed to be locked up and starved for more than 3 years) but it's consistent with the setup they have presented.
@@KGLordofhollows Sorry, bit I still cant agree. You want to tell me that the entire horde followed the convoy underground, through random tunnels and emerged right next to EVERYONE?! No... that is WAAAAAAAAYyyy too much for me top accept.
46:36 This scene is awful. Literally zero subtlety or nuance, characters spouting out exposition about their backstory and motivations past eachother to the audience. Kathleen's personality is revenge. Why are we prasing that? Are we really that starved of good writing that anything correctly done at most is fantastic?
@Bill Clinton Enjoyer Correctly done as in it does indeed explain Kathleen's motivations and why she acts irrationaly. Doesn't change the fact that the scene executes that awfully imo for the reasons I wrote.
After twenty years of FEDRA supposedly committing atrocities on a regular basis like some authoritarian regime, well… …I’d say it’s more like they _created_ a city full of monsters.
That's the point a lot of these stories are conveying: Perhaps the only thing distinguishing us (or at least many of us) from these monsters is circumstances and experiences. Live for 20 years in a world like this, have your friends killed and tortured throughout, it takes a singularly strong character and strength of will (and I guess the resources and skills still required to survive) to keep your morality intact.
@@adrenjones9301 I'm not so sure about that. Maybe FEDRA went too far, creating these monsters in the first place. Obviously we aren't told an unbiased view of things, but if it's true that FEDRA tortured, raped and killed the people for 20 years, in some sense they had the reckoning coming. And so did Kathleen later, as she continued the cycle of violence herself. You can't be ruthless, dangerous and tyrannical at the top without having to fear a people's revolt at some point. Kathleen's brother seemed to know that, so he chose a path of wisdom, probably with slower but safer progress.
Or...the city is full of monsters, because Fedra kept hanging people. The point is that; There is no right side. No one is justified for their action, yet everyone is.
I think that the biggest issue I had with the Kansas arc was that despite being only 10 days after being liberated, the Kansas citizens already set up the fake wounded person act whereas in the game, it was an undetermined timing of how long the Pittsburg HQ was gone and there's lots of evidence that shows that they were doing it for a while. Other than that, I think they did an excellent job
Agreed. The Hunters started doing that because of their shortage of supplies after they ran out of what was in the QZ, why is this group so quick to try a trick that should only work on naive survivors?
I'll just say episode 5 feels like it's weakest writing wise. Kathleen was a half baked villain and still was unconvincing as a villain/leader. Completely 1 dimensional and just felt too try hard. Henry and Sam segment was great. I think the game did it a lot better, but the show still did a lot of good by them and the actors did a great job
"There you go, it's addressed" he says, as if what just happened was any sort of rebuttal. The proper argument for why Joel didn't wake is that he slept on the wrong side and so he couldn't hear the glass getting stepped on (which has been brought up earlier, but that's neither here nor there in the context of what Mauler just said). Us seeing the glass getting stepped on is not a defense of Joel not waking up when the glass is stepped on... It's like someone going, "wow, Joel went to the trouble of setting up an alert system and yet these two got to them anyway," and you respond with, "Ah, but you see! These two guys stepped on the glass, triggering the alert, and got to them anyway!" It's like, yeah, that's the alleged issue... Earlier, it was brought up that it's too early to call bullshit on the issue when we didn't know how the two got to them, and we needed to see if we were shown that happening. It's like Mauler only remembered the last part, and so the mere fact that we were shown a scene where the two arrive, regardless of the fact that in the scene they trigger the bloody trap, is a rebuttal in Mauler's mind.
Yeah, it's weird how they step on the glass, and it didn't matter. Also, it makes Joel incompetent because he knows his own limitations and does nothing to make up for it. If he can't hear so good, why not fall asleep with his back against the wall, so his good isn't covered? Why not come up with a better alarm he will hear, even with his scuffed hearing? This just makes Joel stupid.
What I find annoying is that these same four guys could go back and rewatch "Black Widow", "Force Awakens", "Captain Marvel" or anything else they've criticized; and with this same level of unflinching positivity and a blind eye to ANY criticism, be able to make any one of those shit properties sound amazing. You can relentlessly defend that you like this show every 17 seconds, but it's telling that in an entire episode, four critical minds couldn't find a single thing to question, criticize, or even nitpick. These are not stupid guys. If they don't see anything wrong here, they're not looking for it.
I think after the event with the Synthetic Man, they're trying to distance themselves from any behavior that has anything to do with the kind of person he is.
Agreed. They're obviously biased toward this series and it shows. I recently rewatched Squid Game EFAP and compared to TLOU is like a night and day when it comes to talking about small details. What I love about EFAP is a critical analysis of media without bias, but with this show, it's like they turned the critical part of their brains off. The first bad sign was in episode 3 where they just went along with bad worldbuilding and the way too fast start of Bill's and Frank's romance (pointing a pistol at a stranger to human intercourse in a few hours). I feel like the usual EFAP would bring up the fuel degradation, lack of supply chain, or the house being left alone (except one tismy raid) for almost 20 years, but nah they glossed over that. I'm glad they're at least enjoying the show, but I expected a more critical take from the guys that pride themselves on objective media takes.
Regarding your response to the comments from previous episode, I think they have a pretty good point. Leadership isn't something you just decide is yours, there's a concept of legitimacy to it. You need the support of enough people that you can suppress those that oppose your rule, whether that's through militaristic or diplomatic means. Even now that we know why she's leader (related to the previous leader), it doesn't make sense she'd be in charge. It would make much more sense that people would support mister military man (he seems way more fit for it too). It reminds me of Cersei in Game of Thrones or Ramonda in the latest Black Panther. They had no legitimate claims to the throne and no reason for anyone to support them, but they were just made leader by the writers, just because they wanted them to be in charge. It's contrived
A big part of their response to the previous episode's comments was that they weren't waiting for the show to give context for her, when it had only introduced her in that episode. There's a certain lack of benefit of the doubt there. And she's not just leader because she was related to the previous leader. You heard Mister Military Man say it, '[Your brother] didn't change anything. You did.' That clearly implies that she was the one who took charge and led them to overthrow FEDRA after her brother died, no doubt driven by grief, vengeance and hatred. If she's the one who led them to freedom, like, no shit they'd keep following her. You don't have to be a military guy to be a leader.
@@leonhartdragomir8948 Gotta be honest, I forgot that line when I wrote my comment. I just think that between what we actually see her do in the show and that one line, I find it hard to believe she'd get a lot of support. It would've been nice to maybe get some more on the history of this little town, her brother and what she did. But I doubt we will.
@@Gyohdon I interpreted it as she was more inciting people to violence after he brother died (as it’s implied her brother was extremely peaceful and forgiving) and they just defacto went to her as leader after the rebellion. Plus, Henry says she’s only been in charge officially for 10 days so it’s plausible nobody has had the time to properly overthrow her yet. It’s believable she was leader for now but she woulda likely been overthrown in a few weeks
I agree. I think Marlene actually offers a good source of comparison. In general, it's hard to take women seriously as leaders in pre-modern social structures. But someone like Marlene makes it believable by both looking physically capable and by emoting a commanding presence in face of doubt. You can understand how people would flock to her when she's the only one keeping the resistance together. Kansas City lady has no legitimacy. Once Fedra falls, it's a free-for-all. None of her qualities instill respect, especially amongst hot-headed men who have survived an apocalypse for 20 years. Yes, it makes sense for her to kill the doctor. What doesn't make sense is that anyone would follow her after that
Kathleen was disappointing to me but not because I found the idea of her being this revenge obsessed uber ruthless person, but more because I think the performance of her didnt really portray it very well. The actress is talking in this small quite mouse like voice most of the time(almost monotone at points) and all her 'threatening' lines come off really hollow and weak, she did well in the childs bedroom scene talking about her brother but otherwise I think she just didnt do too good a job at being the big bad person this group would actually follow.
not all "big bad" people speak with a "big bad" voice, but rather some speak in a more hushed tone so that the person pays attention to every word; she already has all the power and can kill any person she's threatening at any moment, so whats the point of her screaming? To intimidate? No, I see her more as the cold and calculated type, but even then, when her power was nullified during the zombie horde you can see her begin to unravel, like the face she makes when the guy tells her to run. But then again I only watched it here, so I can't fully speak to it I guess lol
@@hellbind Women can't be written the same as guys. You can't have big bad women acting like roided up psychos and have it come across as serious or believable. I agree that she shouldn't have to be a "big bad", but you can't describe her performance as "cold and calculated" or "some speak in a more hushed tone so that the person pays attention to every word; she already has all the power and can kill any person she's threatening at any moment". She was emotional and shrill. Nothing about the way she spoke or her actions as a leader insinuated she had the intelligence, cunning, or calmness necessary to topple FEDRA, let alone hold power over her people. Now I think a shallow character like this could work if it follows stereotypes (scary unhinged dude, or sexy manipulative woman), but if you want your "dumpy mid west cat lady" to be taken remotely seriously, you have to give her character a little more depth. Show us how she made shit happen despite her great brother not being able to, show us that she can come up with competent plans to achieve her goals instead of telling a man to "check all the buildings in the entire city" or getting lucky that some random old dude happened to spot our group dumbly walking down the middle of a street.
@@hellbind I fully agree that not all 'big bads' have a 'big bad' voice, buts not what I meant. An immediate character that springs to mind who is a villain and women who acts in a more restrained but emotional at points manner would be Dolores Umbridge from the harry potter films, she does talk in small quite voice and isnt at all physically imposing but she still talks in subtle manner where you can still feel threat from her. This example is pretty random but its just popped into my head atm and I think it gets my point across as best I can. Characters 100% can be more subtle and less obviously intimidating while still being an effective villain/antagonist and commanding respect and authority, Dolores Umbridge fits that bill completely and I agree that general sort of character is what they were probably going for but for me the difference between these two is the performance. Both talk in a small timid almost voice most of the time but one sounds sinister/threatening the other sounds like a nurse telling people its near their bedtime. Could be poor direction, I have no problem with the actress as she does do well at other parts but being this ruthless leader role doesnt at all suit her performance.
@@CrossBreedTacoHD Yea, but at the same time she was only in it for one episode and in said episode all we got was the shell of a woman that lost part of herself in losing her brother and probably was seeing that she was also losing control of the group, which is possibly why she was so emotional by that point. If I'm not mistaken, she was only in charge for a week from the time her brother died til she was killed, so we only got the glimpse of who THAT person was, and not really a fleshed out depiction of who she was while her brother was alive etc, which is why we were told rather than shown. As far as the "check all building in the city", idk maybe better dialogue could be put there, or again she's in such an emotional state at this point that she knows their competence will fill in for whatever direct instruction she left out (although check all the buildings is pretty self explanatory). Maybe the character would've had more depth given more time to be fleshed out, but the only thing bad about it to me was her being killed by a kid as karma, but even that I didn't notice until seeing it again.
I haven't played or watched anyone play either of The Last of Us games, so I personally really like the side by sides. I can see some of the differences for myself, and if it makes it easier to edit for copyright purposes then I'm all for it. The Chungus zombie rising from the pit to Batwoman's theme gives me life!
I mean, considering she's the leader and absolutely ruthless, it wouldn't surprise me if she took more for herself than the average citizen because she's "more important."
Hmm... I'm having a hard time believing that either Joel or Henry would not be checking on the kids for bites or injuries after their ordeal. Especially with all of the close encounters and chaos they just had. This hyper-vigilant and borderline paranoid Joel we have seen would probably not let her out of his sight after that until he knew with 100% certainty that they would be safe.
The best defense I've heard for this is Joel wouldn't want to risk revealing Ellie's bite marks, though I think he could've offered to both check their own kids. If that played out though Henry probably would've lied about his brother's bite anyway, that doesn't negate Joel not even trying though. I think it's a semi-excusable issue and could've potentially led to the same outcome regardless, but still an issue.
yes rags, your response to her shooting the dr was the criticism of her. Now whats the defense? Did Organised chaos rot your brain? defending against the critique by repeating the critique
It was very considerate of the child clicker to ignore the rules of clickers in order to kill Kathleen. Right up there with the HEY YOU raptor from Jurrassic Park: Lost World and every ninja zombie from the Resident Evil films.
It’s terrifying how not only is Efap becoming what they hate, but there are so. many. fucking. comments here sounding creepily like TLJ shills, wtf is going on?
@Darth Dragonborn I don't know if I'm willing to go that far. Sometimes we just inexplicably enjoy something filled to the brim with tism, or don't enjoy something that had all the ingredients of something we should 😂
Why the constant need to compare the show to its source? Wasn't it Efap that refused to accept the cannon of spiderman as criticism for how marvel portrayed the character in their movies?
They literally explained this a million times. It's okay to compare something with its source, but that doesn't determine whether or not something is good or bad. You can compare Morbius to the Godfather and talk about how one fails whilst the other succeeds, but that doesn't mean the two have to be same.
This was kinda disgusting to watch. Them being so focused on the meta and how they can use what they are watching as counterarguments for "winning" against people in the middle of watching the episode... If anything that goes to show how little investment they really have in the show. Imagine actually watching a show, with that mentality . "HAH there's the plot point that directly contradicts that one argument I saw some guy having on the internet, I WIN!!!"
I had a lot of issues with 1x5, mostly with the action scene. Where do the zombies come from? They state earlier that they are underground in tunnels, and we see those tunnels that are man made later. Where are the zombies under this house that the truck crashes into? Have they dug their own tunnels? that shallow in the ground? I can believe a certain number of them running to the explosion of the truck (funny that this wasn't an issue in the rebellion it seems). But where did they come from in the first place? It doesnt seem like the tunnels they drove the infected to were sewers. I don't think they could even contain them in the sewers, there usually a bunch of exit points for sewer systems, and the impression I got at least from the last episode was that they were drove underground in those tunnels and kept there, until being "all killed" with what Henry says. The way its presented it comes across as they are all just there under that house. Which makes no sense. Then the zombies break out and the soldiers and people act a bit silly. Rose runs off not to a car, her guard dude doesn't escort her to safety, just tells her to run off to the side. Rose leaves on foot, and teleports to Ellie it seems and dies to the zombie. Joel goes from being very inaccurate shooting at the truck, allowing it to crash specifically into that spot, to then completely accurate to defend Ellie with perfect headshots (I liked the previous episodes mentioning that most people miss and arent very accurate.) . Ellie also stabs 2 zombies in the neck and they insta die and doesn't really make much sense given they take bullet shots to neck in ep 2 afaic and don't die. It's completely contrived. The guy shooting at Joel doesn't realize Joel is coming to him to kill him. Ive been somewhat liking the show up until this point, I liked most of the Henry and Sam stuff as well. But man that action scene was wonky
Another thing that doesn't make sense is the fact that Henry, Sam, and Ellie just sat behind the car when the zombies came instead of just immediately running to the house where Joel was while the zombie and soldiers were focused on one another.
@@user-xx6vy9ri8p All of the soldiers had turned their guns onto the infected. They were not paying attention to Henry. The infected were moving very fast and were on the soldier when Henry got behind the car. If they did have their guns on him, why was he able to run behind the car?
Noteworthy criticisms EFAP didn’t talk about. 1. Pretty dumb how we’re supposed to believe Kathleen really wants to kill Henry but then she has him at gunpoint TWICE and doesn’t shoot him lol. 2.Perry getting killed by the bloater was super dumb. He could of ran away with Kathleen but instead he chooses to stand there and shoot at it allowing himself to be easily disposed of. 3. The child clicker climbing into the car was unbelievable. Their is a massive battle going outside the car with gunshots and screaming but we’re supposed to believe the clicker which detects things with sound is somehow going to climb into the car after Ellie and not go after any of the other countless sounds going on around it. On another note, after Henry and Sam die Mauler says “yeah this hit just about as hard as it did during the game”, I completely disagree. In the game you spend so much more time with Sam and Henry and you do so much more with them as Joel and Ellie. Henry has to leave Joel behind to protect Sam and you see Joel’s reaction to that and he even says he’s glad they are still together despite the minor betrayal. Things like that make the loss hit soooooooo much harder in the game.
1: You don't understand, Kathleen is dumb so of course she'll do something dumb. She was blinded by rage over her brother dying, so therefore everything she does makes sense 2: That guy is also dumb 3: Ellie is connected to the mushroom network, and the clicker felt Ellie's presence through the Force. Oh, also themes.
1) She was savoring / enjoying the moment of power and righteousness. 2) I see your point, but perhaps Perry wanted to make sure Kathleen could escape, so he decided to stand his ground, perhaps take down the bloater, but at least make sure Kathleen manages to escape. 3) Perhaps the child clicker has not turned completely yet, and could still see somewhat. Whether the game hit harder or not is purely subjective. They did a lot of work in this episode that does make it hard hitting, you can contrast it to the game according to your preference.
@@NoskcajLlahsram And more importantly they just glossed over the line of “we drove them underground” when talking about the infected. How do you drive them underground lmao?
@@holysecret2 1. Is absurd and bad writing if that is your explanation. 2. Could be the case but still super dumb, they both could of easily escaped the bloater. 3. I don’t believe you her face was covered no way she was seeing anything. As for the other thing yes I’m aware it’s subjective but it’s just a wild opinion from Mauler IMO.
There was a lot less relationship building between Joel and Henry. It was already super short but in the game they at least relied on each other during the battles and the player felt a sense of relief if they were saved from a grapple. The final combat scene in the episode was ok but didn't even come close to all the cool game sections: 1. Night time infiltration 2. Getting separated and almost drowning 3. The initial sewers fight 4. Ellie going with Henry while Joel going with Sam and having to fight the stalkers 5. The final gauntlet run with Sam and Ellie trying to get the door open while Henry and Joel hold off the infected 6. The finally the sniper section. That's a lot of comradery and their deaths feel way more meaningful in the game.
I guess in this episode we have their first talk in the building, then the one in the sewer gets pretty personal, and makes them warm up to each other, and then towards the end where they are joking around a little about the "endure and survive" line. I would agree it is for sure less than in the game, but I'd say those are all the essential beats that would be required. I would have liked the episode to be 10 minutes longer and build a little more, but I guess you will always want more of a great episode ^^
@@holysecret2 It would be interesting to see people's reaction to the show if the video game didn't exist. I feel like a lot of criticisms are more about how the game did it "better" and less about how the show itself is actually bad which I think just shows how well the show is doing.
ngl those inital comments being picked seem like strawmen choices, really easy and obvious counters to them and their full inaccuracies. I feel like it wouldnt have been hard to pick some comments that raised better points than those, comes off like you picking easy targets for the sake of it.
@edgarallanpwned6666 How am I meant to substantiate 'claims' that I felt the comments picked were rather weak? The comments they picked seemed pretty poor surface level complaints, instead of picking comments that seemed much more reasonable to most people I'd say most people watching the video reading these comments themselves could see they were weak arguments with a bunch of holes in them. Like the initial complaints are pretty much along the lines 'this person is not acting in a perfectly rational utilitarian manner as a good leader should, therefore this is a flaw with the show.', this exact type of complaint I've seen covered on efap multiple times before and the guys have made the distinctions between character flaws and writing of characters being flawed multiple times before. This makes it seem like something unnecessary to respond to when it wasn't getting much support from the audience at all and when most of the audience will have heard the same arguments against this thing by the guys before this so addressing it again seems pointless. Hell I'd say most people outside of the efap audience coming blind would see that comment and think it was weak. Others contain big errors in what actually happened in the show and the last one seems more like a meme than an attempt to address a flaw with the show. The are some other things but ngl I only came back to finish rewatching the last half of the video before the new stream started, then saw the enlightened intellectual of 'These people never do, clearly too small minded to respond ho ho ho.' I didnt respond cus I dont have notifications enabled for youtube comments weirdly, honestly comments that make any claim stronger than 'lmao big chungus funny' are rather a waste of time and I consider it a bad habit of mine to respond to comments or make them to begin with. Their just a poor platform to 'debate' anything. I wasnt making some objective statement about what they did I just expressed that (for the reasoning given above) those comments seemed very weak so choosing them seemed pretty pointless. Would be like responding to comments in episode 3 that are just 'lmao gay people bad, show is bad and that time travel sub-plot made no sense.'(this is obviously me exaggerating for effect, I hope the general point still comes across.)
The whole leukemia thing took me out of the story and I couldn't pay attention to anything else. Leukemia is a cancer of the blood/bone marrow. That requires tests to confirm and chemo or radiation. I don't know what they do and don't have in their apocalypse world but it seems like electricity is scarce. I didn't like Kathleen in that I didn't understand why everyone would continue to follow her that long.
It only been a maybe two weeks since fedra got taken down. So it hasn't been that long that they've followed her. And having gained their freedom so recently under her, then then it makes sense she would have a least a couple months before they really started questioning her leadership after freedom.
@That One Panda they're definitely a fresh survivor group, if they weren't taken out so fast the second in command guy would probably make a play to take control
Leukemia, like a lot of cancers, doesn't kill you instantly. Your body deteriorates over time and then you die, sometimes even with treatment. This can take weeks, months, if not years. Who knows what kind of treatment he got, but either way the show didn't establish that he's cured. Even with treatment maybe he would have died anyway after a few years. The fact that he's okay and functioning now doesn't contradict any of that. Besides, many leukemias in children have high survivability. It depends on the type, but for some types of leukemia, in today's numbers, it can be 90%+ of survival. Obviously in this show the world went to shit in 2003 so they would have to use that time's treatments, but I don't think it's unlikely that Sam would have survived long enough to be alive now. He probably wouldn't have lived a long life anyway with it. But him surviving so far is fine.
@@EziooAuditore Oh yes, I get that... But Kathleen shouldn't be having such an insane urge for revenge about the MeDiCiNe if it would have been the same for her brother.
I wonder why the new faction did not stop Joel and Ellie when they entered their territory and only tried acting like bandits when they drove right by the front of the gate. Why did they act like bandits when they confronted them and why did it take so long for them to respond when they were so close when in this episode they respond quicker when our characters are much further away. I do not think these are major problems but I would appreciate clarification from the show, since this sets up the two episodes.
Because it was in the game, that's the answer. I guess they wanted Henry and Sam pov, they wanted to establish these "bandits" as characters, so the leader would say her message about vengeance and care in the end. So they did that and putted it in already existing scenario of what happened at tlou and that's why it doesn't make much sense. They simply overlooked it. Notice how there are no scenes when they gun down innocent people, just because they THOUGHT they had something good, but they didn't. That's how fucked this group was in the game. And because of it, some scenes feel weird and out of place, well because they are.
I quite like the scene for scene comparison. Find it helpful. I'm cautiously optimistic about this show. Here's the issue, I'm waiting for the hospital. Once we know how they're dealing with that, (probably not well) I'll have an opinion on the show as a whole.
21:46 I think some clarification is needed here. Throughout the game , Until the hotel, Joel doesn't tell Ellie to stay back because she's just cargo and a liability. Joel doesn't mind Ellie getting involved with the fighting because not only is he there to help her, but it's also necessary for her to fight to survive. However, during the hotel sequence, he tells her to stay back for a specific reason. He had just fallen down the elevator shaft and she was panicked and wanted to find a way to get to him. He told her to stay where she was because of the clear dangers of traversing the hotel on her own. And when Ellie shoots the man trying to kill Joel, it's revealed that she didn't listen to him. I don't believe he reacted the way he did because this made him angry. He was most likely scared by the danger she put herself in moving alone through the hotel and even entering the situation where the man was trying to kill him. He could have easily killed her if things had gone south. But that fear is an indication that he's growing close to her, and he's not willing to accept that, so he does what he usually does. He represses it. And when someone is repressing those kinds of emotions, it's often easier to replace them with easier emotions such as anger. I actually don't prefer one approach over the other. I think both the show's version and the game's version service the story in precisely the way it needs to for both iterations.
I didn't think i would ever see a day where Angryzoe will criticize a epsiode and EFAP will praise it. I don't know if EFAP is baised on this show cause this episode has some mejor problems. For example the convenient timing of those zombie showing up + Main antagonist not shooting despite getting multiple chance etc.
How is the infected showing up a convenience? It's set up that they were hearded into tunnels and dealt with, but dealing with them could mean anything. Inturn meaning they were hearded elsewhere.
Agreed. And I'm very surprised that the crew doesn't notice these things and talk only about good things, while in the tlou2 efap, or she-hulk, or whatever they don't like it's completely opposite and they're just nailing these things.
@@Mr.Emu.- How is the infected showing up a convenience? Are you retarded? They show up at exactly the right time for Henry and his gang to use the Zombie as a distraction to escape death. That is a what they call not only a convenience but contrivance, something that Mr Objectivity crew is suppose to be against but this was a perfect example of it and they seemed to have loved it instead. There's no defending this unless you want to be a retard and say ''UHH DUUR WAHT CONVENIENCE; THIS NO CONVENIENCE'' *drolls*.
@@unclepain10 Holy shit, calm down. I gave my reasons why it wasn't convenient and was set up, but you seem to ignore them and just go to petty name calling.
Honestly this is that episode where it's stepped into theme over substance. Like specifically how Kathlene is there for a theme and there's not much to her or anyone around her and then when she's done her part just gets killed off. And by not much to her I mean she's pretty simple. Everyone following her feels hollow and she doesn't feel like she has any effect on them and then she starts spouting cringe dialogue.
And this is my issue with how Kathleen is used. I don't see a character: I see a prop for a theme and that's distracting to me when trying to engage with a show
@@sonicsenryaku6205 there's also the fact that this is extremely similar to the Bill lesson and it comes right after so in universe the obviousness of the lessons and experiences is jarring. I've found parts of the game they cut more meaningful than her entire part. Also the part where Tommy's Voice actor sacrifices himself is really meaningless because there's just nothing there between them. I also thought her character often bordered on over the top evil in her dialogue at points. I don't think it added anything worthwhile besides being blatent about how this is going to be relevant in the story thematically which doesn't improve the story it makes it more clunky.
@@cameronroy2129 Right there with you on that one. My issues with this episode have nothing to do with how it's not like the game; I just don't think the storytelling is all the tight, period. For some people, it will just so happen that by them being disappointed by the clunkiness of the this ep's writing, it'll circle their thoughts right back to the game and the competence to which it told this portion of the story
@@sonicsenryaku6205 I'm trying to seperate things from the game where I can. There's things I notice like their car in episode one getting knocked over by a plane crash shooting a wheel a mile away to knock over their car. That's a change you can criticize just as a story compared to a story because its over the top and more contrived. I think there's moments where you can say the narrative of the game really only works when the journey is given more time to naturally progress and spiking it suddenly in other directions can cause issues. I have things in the game to criticize such as how some gameplay is a bit contrived itself like Joel being chased by a car with a gun on it that misses every shot or Ellie riding through cannibal summer camp. But the show makes a couple mistakes with action as well, and has multiple instances of drama contrivance, gun jamming and lighter not lighting that don't feel dramatic they feel eyerolling. Some things feel like good changes that add to the world without overly contriving the message such as Bill and Frank, they help Joel seem competent in the story in a new way and while it takes time it offers new looks at a story without being overly obvious and unnatural. I do ask myself, is this version of Sam and Henry equal to or less complete as a character. We still have the moral middle ground of Henry in what he would do to keep his brother alive with leukemia medicine instead of general survival harshness and attitude (can't keep a toy and leaves Joel behind) but with Kathleen tacked on the story I feel doesn't reach the same beat with how little time we get with him, in the same way with Kathlene not having much meat to her story it like they just hit key points and things that make people emotional. Also we don't get Ellie dropping down to be with Joel after Sam and Henry leave them. The worry is we won't flesh out their relationship as we continue to drop character moments tied with the path they don't choose to take. I miss that scene where Joel and Henry after they got out of it had a moment of normal, of fun of reminiscing about the pre apocalypse just riding motorcycles. And comparing directly to a game like that is unfair. However what I will put forth is many of the adapted characters seem to be done in a not as good way. Sam and Henry had to share their time with another character only for both their stories to be - Spout backstory - die And ultimately tell a story that still pulls heartstrings but is weaker in areas and smaller as a whole. Ultimately relying on the parts of its source not the new parts to add something meaningful Then there's Tess ... just less character and then there's the death scene that arguably makes her look dumb. I think I shouldn't criticize the show for not having parts I personally think make the story from the game better, however I think I can criticize the new stuff they add or story direction they choose and how that may create a passable but weaker narrative.
I am enjoying the show as well overall, but I think you guys are going far easier on it than others you have critiqued. Personally, I am getting tired of them just speeding their way through the source content to introduce and kill off well known supporting characters in a single episode, often while the support they are supposed to be bringing to Joel and Ellie through dialogue/experiences is being purposefully hamstrung.
Ya, the show is by no means objectively bad. EFAP liking it is not surprising. It's how much they are gushing over it that's.....strange. It's not thaaat good. It's fine.
Other than not checking anybody for bites, Joel's aim improving under more and more stress while he is visibly shaking lightly, and the Bloater acting like a Wrestling pro more than anything, that was an excellent episode. I keep being surprised about how good this is so far.
Odd question but why does everyone keep using Humvees? They would be horrible in the apocalypse with high maintenance and fuel consumption, not to mention they are very lightly armed. You think that they would use something like a guardian Afv which comes with a 40mm grenade and 50.kal to counter those hordes.
isn't ellie falling asleep next to someone who's she knows is infected dumb tho ? ..... like shouldn't she be dead? or do they not attack you when your sleeping lol. in the games they got around this by having them in separate rooms which makes more sense if you wanted to get around this problem.... i know they wanted to have ellie know that he was infected, but I think they could of done this better
Are you really not grasping why a deaf zombie mushroom thing wouldn't have complete awareness of its surroundings? It makes zero sense as to why Henry would purposefully isolate Sam away from the rest of the group in the game. It was set up like that for shock drama the next morning. Realisticaly, Joel would have shot the kid a new earhole long before he got anywhere close to Ellie if not for that contrivance I agree that it was irresponsible of Ellie to pretend it wasn;t a big deal. But again, Joel would have blown Sam away or just left immediately if he knew the truth and that's something Ellie would never be able to live down
@Jeggson Vohees Hahahaha, though if we are splitting the split hairs, the infected are still technically alive. They are not undead zombies like "The Walking Dead", they are infected human beings who still have a working respiratory and nervous system, with fully functioning hearts and brains. Though Sam's personality is gone and he's not in control of his actions, he is still fully alive (like people with rabies).
@@shanecunningham5802Yes he killed the body that was infected, but if we speak of sam as the person, he is already dead. only thing alive is the parasite and thats who he killed and in this case does it still count as a kill, since its not a human and if we go even further nothing is alive really. we are all just a bunch of lifeless atoms.
The way you guys creamed your pants over the bloter wasn't any different then peoples reaction to Luke in Mando and you understood then exactly why it was dumb, but now its brilliant. You guys really really want to like this show and it shows
What’s objectively wrong with the Bloater scene? The problem in Mando was that the writing was terrible so the Luke payoff was hollow, which made it frustrating that fans were "creaming their pants over it"
@@LiamKennedyYT an issue I noticed is that the Bloater is treated just as a boss fight. It’s just a killing machine when it should be acting similarly to the other infected in that it’s nature is to either infect or feed.
It’s all personal preference, I guess they really really love this show. But it goes against their brand. People are here for finding flaws - they expect this with the nasal sardonic voice of mauler dude, but they’re getting something opposite and it bothers them. Rightfully so imo.
It's almost like one is surrounded by good writing whilst the other is surrounded by bad writing. But sure, if you ignore context then their reaction isn't any different.
Personally I didn't see any reason to make Sam 8 instead of 13, it seems like we lost a lot of conversation between Ellie and Sam. It also caused the loss of a conversation I thought was hilarious in the game where Ellie and Sam ask each other their ages, Sam lies and says he is 14 like Ellie and Sam says "Oh you're fourteen, huh?" it is just such a big brother line. There also seemed to be less interaction between Joel and Henry like the Harley conversation they have. The only other gripe I have is why make Sam deaf if you aren't going to use it? It isn't like we ever get to see them use sign language around a clicker or some patrolling guards, really disappointing to see what could have been such a suspenseful and entertaining scene just not happen. I am still enjoying the show it is still definitely like a 7-8/10 and it is by far the best videogame adaptation. I have a lot of hope for it although as we get closer and closer to the ending my worry grows.
I had the same issue with this episode, I'm sure it was Neil's idea to put a deaf person just for his agenda and when it's done so on the nose it takes me out of the immersion. I was hoping for a scene where they shoot a gun close to him but they don't tell him so he doesn't get scared or an infected appears close to him and he doesn't realize it's there because of his disability. The interactions with Ellie would have felt more natural if they could have talked in my opinion.
@@ConnorJane He is thirteen in TLOU Part 1, it is in the wiki chief. "Sam is a supporting character in The Last of Us. He was a thirteen-year-old survivor from Hartford and the younger brother of Henry."
@@Kevin-uz5he actually they say it after the episode in the post episode behind the scene thing. The conversation basically was "what if we make the kid Deaf" "that's genius why didn't I think about that" I'm not really playing it up thats basically how they describe it.
Y'know, frankly, I'm glad you guys are able to enjoy it. Neil Druckmann is involved and that's where the buck stops for me. I don't want to like it. I want to stay far, far away.
Does this also apply to the first game? If not, you're just making excuses for not accepting the show, if so, weird but I guess I can sort of respect consistently hating him and all of his work because of TLOU2
I was very sceptical of Bella Ramsay's Ellie rendition in the first couple episodes, but she really shows a lot of depth in her acting. Her reaction to Henry killing himself is heartbreaking. She's doing a fantastic job !
I just feel like she wasn't given much before this to really emote, before it was awkward swearing like she was a knockoff ellie, now it's starting to feel like she is more naturally Ellie.
Joel said in episode 4. “You keep going for family.” Which perfectly reflects what Henry tells Joel about Sam being sick and what he had to do to help his brother. Just great little bread crumbs the show lays out that will lead us to Joels big choice.
That's a weird dialogue. "Did you notice something strange about this town? - No infected?" That's not strange, that's normal. Why would there be infected in closed town which only 10 days ago was ruled by Fedra, whos purpose is to keep quarantine?
there are infected all over boston as you saw in ep2 and that one was bombed, Fedra keeps the close proximity of the QZ free from infected, but it's not controlling the entire city
I can also imagine they occasionally go around looking for infected, cleaning out buildings, checking tunnels, ensuring that no stray infected gets lucky bite.
Wow, nice to be featured I guess. So let's go over the response. I think a lot of the following can be attributed to miscommunication on my part and misunderstanding simply due to the limits of comments vs speaking in person. Appeal to Meta: Yeah I was. I was referring to the set ups for interactions with characters to reinforce arcs/characterisation. In the game they have more time to interact than they do in this show because the show has removed sections that gave them time to get closer. Maybe it is just me but it feels weird how kind Joel is to her with what the show has presented. They met, walked through a building, Tess died, walked to Bill's town to get resupplied, now they are here and Ellie had disobeyed him (for good reason). I don't feel like they are as close as the show wants me to believe. But once again, it's hard to judge because small differences matter. The context for the game was that he almost drowned and he's still catching his breath. The scene in the show looks to be later on and everyone has calmed down and they are in a safe(ish) area. Too Fatherly: Yes. I think this is too early. Just because we are in Episode 4 that doesn't mean we are "close enough". It depends on the content of those episodes and as I said above I don't believe they have had enough suitable interaction for him to view her in that way. Couple this with specific interactions they have, namely the one after Tess's death, and I'm not convinced he would be that fatherly or even friendly towards her after that. Standing up for herself: Yes, she stood up for herself but once again small changes matter. In the game Ellie tries to apologise for what happens to Tess. Regardless of if it is her fault she feels like she's partially responsible and wants to try and make amends. This leads to Joel laying down ground rules. This reinforces both of their characters early on. It also gives Joel more of a reason to think Ellie isn't a total ass since she feels bad. In the show her response is "Not my fault, move on." and Joel says nothing to respond to that. I don't know for certain, but this might be why people think Joel in this is a pushover (I know I found it weird so maybe others did too). This is Joel's friend that he's known for a good while and he has no real response to someone saying that after she sacrificed herself for both of them. Yes, she stands up for herself here but it also makes her come off as pretty nasty. Whereas, her saving Joel and then being reprimanded doesn't while still giving her a chance to stand her ground. I also think it's stupid how he just gives her a gun after reprimanding her in the game. But that's the issue of it being a video game that requires combat sequences. Something a TV show doesn't need to abide by. I feel like they could have taken the game scene and improved on it by being able to avoid this issue of Joel giving her a gun immediately after reprimanding her for it. We could even get scenes of Joel teaching Ellie to shoot better (maybe a little later on) to act as another scene like the jokebook. Breaking down his walls while also being something practical. Maybe use some of that screen time dedicated to Bill's backstory. As much as I enjoyed it I am still confused as to why that exists considering it was a whole episode dedicated to that instead of anything that could improve upon the games skeleton. He's already this Fatherly: No he isn't. At least not in the same context. At this stage in the game additional scenes and sections have happened between them that the show chose not to feature which confuses me. That's my issue. These two characters feel like they are closer than they reasonably should be and I don't believe the show when it tells me they are. As much as I have enjoyed most of the new content that has been added to this show I have to ask was it worth it dedicating the resources to that (mainly the Bill thing) because it has meant less time is spent with Ellie and Joel to cement their relationship. Not taking into context the changes and how it affects the arc: I have thought about it and I still believe that it will be less impactful. Their relationship feels rushed and maybe it is just me and my cold dead heart. Joel kills an entire branch/faction of the resistance to prevent Ellie, the girl he originally wanted nothing to do with, from dying. That's a big pay off for his arc and if I already don't believe they would be as close now I find it very likely that I won't think the pay off is as impactful. Side note - We have a loss of innocence section in the game, it's Winter and everything that happens then. Not just the cannibals but the fact that Ellie now has to put on her big girl boots and be the person in charge. I really hope they make Winter good, it's my favourite section in the game. Ludo narrative Dissonance: Yes. In the game she is involved in combat. Once again, feels like a choice to avoid gameplay being painful for the player. Do I think this choice is good? No. I thought it was weird from the beginning that she's involved in combat when she's apparently important enough that it warrants a high paying smuggling job to deliver her somewhere. I agree with Fringy, it makes little sense in the game. Hardened Jaded Man: This is me choosing my words poorly when I was not in a good mood so that's my fault. I was not meaning to imply Joel does not care about people at all. I wanted to highlight that Joel is very cautious of people and doesn't become close with people easily. With how fast he has bonded with Ellie it doesn't feel like this is a man that struggles with wanting to enjoy the human experience of forging bonds with people while having to balance his own personal safety in a world that can kill you for a minor infraction with how quickly he's forged a bond with her. I will say, this episode did a good job of highlighting that, so I am happier with this one. Wait until it's over: No. You guys get this comment all the time from people when you respond to videos so I'll respond how you do. If it turns out I'm wrong I'll say I'm wrong or that I've changed my mind, which I have about a couple things after this episode. But based on what I had seen that is how I felt about it. Give it a try: I never said that I wouldn't give this show a try or that I dislike the show. Overall? I think the show is good. I don't think it's as good as people are saying it is but I don't think it's bad at all. The sets are incredible, the acting (after Ellie's actress start trying or she got better direction) is incredible, the writing is mostly strong with a couple of confusing moments. I've enjoyed a lot of things about it so far. Bill and Frank's entire backstory, while I don't understand the choice of its inclusion, I fucking loved. This is an easy 6-7/10 for me so far. I have enjoyed watching every single episode, and this was no different with it being my favourite episode so far because holy fuck it was amazing but that doesn't mean that I'm not going to talk about the issues I have with it. I can like something and still think that these things are issues. After this episode my complaints are the same I've had since the beginning. Overall, I really like the episode/show but the small details annoy me. Mainly, Joel telling strangers his name. Why?! And as our lovely guest pointed out, Ellie feeling certain enough about her blood being the cure to stay in the same room as him. Whether she is asleep or awake that's a big risk to take. It does add the POTENTIAL interesting point of her hiding something important from Joel as he may do from her at the end of the show but is that worth it? I don't think so. Keeping her in the dark about his bite avoids a lot of difficult questions. Other than the small things this episode was great. Kind of like all the others, even though the choice for episode 3 still really confuses me.
Yeah, since Az quoting and describing the show as "The Last of Us Part 2 Part 1" I really can't see the show any other way beyond that and i think its a perfect description of the show. I'm glad efap is liking this show as it helps break away from the stereotype of "everything is bad" they have. I'm just shocked this is the thing they like
Have you not seen them like a whole bunch stuff recently? They did an entire stream covering movies they liked, Dead Space remake, God of War Ragnarok, HoTD, and now this. It isn't uncommon that they like things.
Az’s content can be entertaining, however, on his individual coverage of this show compared to efaps, Az focuses quite a bit on the political side of things, where efap is focusing on the writing and show for what it is. Obviously modern day cinema seems to sacrifice quality for inclusion and political statements, I’d say that there hasn’t been any of that in this is.
@R3d 0rch3stra yes but that's really recent stuff fheyve been talking about. As far people who truly hate efap and just how efap is generally seen by people who don't watch their content, they're seen as the people who hate everything. This show is just another thing they can add to the list of stuff they like
What the episode attempts: show the loss of Ellie's innocence as a result of her blood not curing Sam. Consequences I see: - Ellie didn't try to cure Tess. - from Ellie's perspective, Joel was right to be skeptical about the cure, so being escorted to the University of Eastern Colorado later, needlessly endangers Tommy or Joel. - Ellie now has a reason to turn back when Joel offers her a choice to do so, later. - Ellie is more likely to believe Joel when he lies about Ellie not being unique and that the Fireflies are no longer looking for a cure.
@@rolandarriaga1295the horde has no way of knowing where anyone goes after triggering the fungus. They could have ran. Ellie could bring it up to Joel how he rippes her away from Tess despite her being able to cure her. She strangely... never implies she considered curing Tess.
@@NoPantsBaby it seems like they were just gonna swarm the area. It only takes one to spot you to bring the rest since they are more connected in this version. At that point still Ellie was just cargo to them.they weren't close yet, Ellie is opening up more with joel so I'm sure she would try now. Sam is the only other kid she's met recently and they became fast friends so of course she'd Wana try cause she wants to save her friend.
Just want to point out that Ellie doesn’t know exactly how the supposed cure works. The blood transfusion didn’t work, but that doesn’t mean that she will be less likely to think a cure could be made, just shows her that she was wrong about how it works. If she gets a bit more information about how a cure might be made, then she will likely still be fully on board with it.
You can't have it both ways; either she's wildly emotionally unstable and therefore capable of killing a doctor in the apocalypse to everyone's detriment...or she's a competent leader that could have come to power in this environment or is capable of staying there. Not both.
You literally can, because people are more than just binary robots who have one of two emotions. She was emotionally unstable when confronting the doctor because she blames him for a tragedy. That doesn't mean she'll be emotionally unstable around people who follow her orders.
You know not all leaders are perfect altruistic beings who have no flaws right? On the contrary most are heavily flawed. Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot anyone? There are countless leaders throughout history that had warped views of the world or were driven by hate.
@@CraigJS91 you know what the average life expectancy of a despotic leader is? Brutally short, despite the rare exception. The exceptions tend to be at the head of an extremely complex machine of suppression, not within gunshot range of the people they are oppressing, like an unhinged warlord. A leader behaving like her could expect a hot lead injection behind the ear in VERY short order.
16:45 It might just be me, but I always understood the scene in the game in a very similar way they did in the show. It feels wrong to him that a little girl had to use a gun and kill a person, he only conveys that feeling in a different way. He wants to protect her innocence, and out of a mix of embarrassment, worry/care and frustration he lashes out at first, but not because he is actually angry at her, but because he was angry at the entire situation that led to her having to use the gun. Might just be my head canon, but I seem to remember some scenes and interactions supporting this interpretation. I for sure know though that I had this interpretation long before the show's version of events.
The way you understood it is the correct interpretation; that's a false read on Mauler's part, and by extension, this video's EFAP crew. Just to put it out there, I think the show's version is a good telling of that event as well barring one particular detail, but the video game's take basically embodies a similar viewpoint. I thought the game made it very clear through its dialogue and character interplay why Joel initially reacted to Ellie in that way. Joel doesn't take the gun away from Ellie and yell at her because he thought she shouldn't be handling a gun; he does so because he doesn't want to rely on someone, let alone the young girl around his daughter's age he was supposed to be protecting, as needing to rely on someone means to trust them, and starting to trust someone means potentially opening up and becoming vulnerable to them. Joel laments having screwed up to such a degree that Ellie had to put herself THAT CLOSE to danger in order to save him, but his pride/closed-off demeanor initially holds him back from admitting it (despite him sounding relieved at first that she came through). After the few in-game interactions, we end up having the cutscene of Joel teaching Ellie how to fire the rifle, and through show-don't tell storytelling, we see Joel let his guard down significantly and trusts Ellie to have his back. Teaching her to fire the rifle was him coming to terms with the fact that he does indeed need to start trusting her if they're going to survive, which motivates his indirect thank you for her saving his life. The issue was never him being worried about her firing a gun, it was about him opening up enough to trust her, which he realizes he should so that it reduces the chances that both him and her fall into extreme danger.
@@holysecret2 Thanks; sorry for the typos but yea; while I think the show is a serviceable take on the game, it ultimately comes off as a more “on the nose” version of it. Case in point: In episode 4, Joel states that he cares deeply for those who are family, then Ellie says, “I’m not family,” to which Joel responds: “No, you’re just cargo.” Like, why would Ellie at this point be asking Joel whether she is or isn’t family to him? It’s almost as if the show’s writing wants to make it absolutely clear that Ellie is starting to see their relationship as something more than just clients but Joel is so adamant to keep up his defenses. Ok show, we get it: you want us to see how much Joel rejects the idea of getting closer to Ellie as she continues to chip away at his walls; but that kind of blatant writing isn’t necessarily. What made the game’s writing so good is that it put together meaningful interactions between characters that greatly emphasized the emotions and themes it was aiming to elicit without being so on-the-nose about it. I don’t mind too too much that the adaptation is a more digestible and decipher-friendly version of the games themes and relationships, but I find myself disagreeing with opinions that state that the show did something better than said game when it simply made certain aspects of it more obvious. There have been very few things I would say translate better in the show (mostly things that make sense pragmatically for a live action show), but it’s mostly not stuff the show has made “clearer” than the game
@@sonicsenryaku6205 Yeah I think the game was a bit more subtle in these character arcs - or at least in the depiction of some of the major steps, like this one. However, I agree that the show's interpretation works just as well "technically" speaking, the main thing that is lost is how compelling it is to follow as a viewer since it is much more spelled out in the show. I think that makes the character arcs in the game a little more intriguing and rewarding to witness as the player, because it feels like there is a bigger hurdle to overcome on Joel's way to letting his guard down around Ellie even just a little. But who knows, perhaps sticking to the script of the game 1:1 might have made show Joel too unlikable. In the game we do have the advantage of first of all BEING Joel, so we feel like maybe we can influence him in some way going forward and are biased towards him, because we can't exactly choose to inhabit another character. But we are also witnessing all kinds of minor interactions between Joel and Ellie whilst exploring, scripted scenes where Ellie talks about a movie, or something she shees in the city or in nature and Joel commenting on it, all of which we can contrast to the rough way he is treating her in this scene, and conclude that maybe there is more behind his visceral reaction.
I think the game handled Sam and Henry's death far better, even on repeated playthroughs this scene is still gut wrenching, the complete shock and terror of Sam's turning, Joel not caring and still going for the gun after Henry shot at him, his immediate personal care for Ellie, and his reaction, trying to defuse the situation by having Henry hand over the gun it's a perfect, powerful scene. Other than great acting by Bella, I think this scene is mishandled, and frankly can't compete or be translated from the game, I can't see it having the same impact even if it was played exactly the same way, I also thought that Henry's actor completely missed the emotions of the scene. This was supposed to be one of the most important scenes from the narrative and yet I can't say that it was.
This! To hear Joel yell screw it and try to save Ellie with the very real threat of being shot in the back and then the first thing he does when the threat is neutralized is care for Ellie shows just how fatherly Joel's character is.
I kinda don't agree about Katheleen's actor being good. The way she deliver lines like "He is not my 7th priority. Is he 7th priority to you?" reminds me of how an elementary school teacher talking to a kid. Or a karen who would call you 'sweety'. I dunno... may be she's a good actor, just not a good cast.
I feel College section will get merged with the "Left Behind" flashbacks. Pad it out with more Fireflies VS FEDRA that'll contextualize the Firefly research base they're looking for. They find out the base is abandoned right as Riley is in danger, and then by the end have Joel's injury echo with her and Riley deciding to "fight for every moment" rather than give up. Then, the Cannibal section can be it's own whole episode.
I just find it very hard to invest in these people. While you all talk about great setups etc, I simply don't believe some things and I have not played the game.
Nothing about this whole World makes any sense. Zombies don't work. The fungus is nonsense and the people manage not to actually enact any of the Million possible countermeasures after 20 years. Deadhead gamers reacting to key jangling and pretty colours. What happened to Mr Objectivity?
It was a bit funny the other episode when a car happens to go through their trap for people coming to town she thinks it has to do with Sam and Henry. It just a bit much for me, if they called in a car I doubt they would have let it get caught like that. It just feels like everything with Kathleen is underwhelming to me, I know what they are going for but it's just a bit over the top at getting it across.
She is competent and her story was good, but I can't take the actress seriously after realizing she is the crazy chick that was obsessed with Charlie Harper in Two and a half men
Kathleen isn't exactly a rational person. She sees something going wrong in the city, she will first think about how Henry could be involved in this , that's just how paranoid, vengeful characters act and think.
@@holysecret2 The problem is vengeful, paranoid, cruel people don't assume leadership in anarchy unless they are either (or both) technically competent, Kathleen was not, or charismatic, which she isn't. The moment her brother dies shoe would have been deposed in a succession crisis. As this is what happens literally every time in human history.
@@NoskcajLlahsram I just don't believe there wouldn't be doubt in her with how things are going. Tommy's Voice actor watches her just ignore the bigger issue of thr zombies for a personal vendetta. They pretend there's this weird middle ground where they're all psychopaths but extremely loyal. Even willing to die for her when her personal vendetta gets them all killed. I mean I just got tired of this story revolving around an incompetent leader who just goes around being hypocritical (her whole thing speech about people dying even though she's only here because she couldn't get over it), uncharasmatic and stupid. Like Abby had her crew because at least they were like her friends this plot where she's got like 50 people with her with no personality on her story just falls flat to me. I mean her brother wanted to take things over differently, and now they've been turned to raiders under her leadership, going after her personal whims.
PSA: When trying to talk someone down, _never say_ "Give me the gun." Every time you say that you're reminding them _what else_ they could be doing with that gun; stop bringing it up. Best thing to do is change them to another topic. "Look at me, breathe, you're OK. I'm gonna come toward you now, we're gonna take it slow, just focus on your breathing and we'll figure it all out. I gotcha. Just one step at a time." Henry has the realistic reaction to someone saying "Gimme the gun" repeatedly. IRL cases of a guy with a weapon getting talked down, it's them talking about everything else _except for the weapon_ like they forget the weapon's even there.
This show to me is like the store brand version of the story and to see efap coom over it is honestly kinda surreal to see given we all know how awful and distrustful Druckmann is
@@proudsaiyanprince2651 that's a very apt description, and I'm honestly baffled that they are acting like fanboys rather then critics since there is alot to criticize.
@@malzo1701I guess that just depends on if what warrants criticism is both substantial and noticeable enough to outshine all other positive aspects during the first-viewing.
@@purpleemerald5299 i think they just really want to like it and when you really want to like something you'll excuse the things you'd normally have issues with. Like Rags constantly saying "CARS AREN'T BULLET PROOF" when people take cover using them... but here not a word.
@@proudsaiyanprince2651 No matter who Druckmann is or what they are going to do with the story going forward, the whole point of the first section of this video is: You judge things too early. People being salty about Kathleen in episode 4 were proven wrong in this episode, why are you so certain that your conclusions won't be proven wrong as well? I'm not saying I am confident in season 2 or the end of season 1, but I am sure as hell going to give them a fair chance, given that every episode until now has been pretty good, if not great. Also not every good scene in the show is just lifted from the game. We had plenty of interactions between Henry and Sam this episode that were very well done and emotional. The entirety of episode 3 was pretty much original, and great story-telling and writing. Claiming most of the accomplishments of this series are just straight up taken from the game is more than a little disingenuous in my opinion.
I can best describe this show as "occasionally competent." They'll have a great character piece for 20 minutes with Sam and Henry being smart and methodical. Only to later have "smart" characters walk down the center of the street because the plot needs to happen
Sam esablished that the outskirts of the city were unoccupied and abandoned. So they had a good reason to let their guard down. But let me ask you this; would the sniper have seen Joel and others if they were on the sidewalk or crossing through the backyards? Given what we see of the close-quarters urban layout, the answer is probably yes so don't think this was an example of stupidity. I do concede that they could've at least tried to be more subtle though.
@@Missionjacob_181But they know that Kathleen is scouring the city for Henry. As soon as they were in the street, I'm thinking there's someone at a watch spot ready to hit them. You can't establish someone like Joel as being hyper capable and careful only to move the plot along with a completely unnecessary blunder. Stealth is a huge part of the game, but they've been so cavalier in the show about attracting attention
@@sivad1025 Idk man. It's an entire city at night. I'd actually label it as more of a potential contrivance that they were even seen at all considering the scope of things. Especially considering the sniper is just using a regular scope in the dark with very little light, as Joel points out.
I keep wondering... How are there still so many inflected around? Shouldn't they sort of die after a while? Turn into mushrooms and then into dust or rot away? Were we ever given any specific rules as for how long they can stay "alive"? What keeps them alive and functioning? Or is this the same situation as with The Walking Dead, they stay alive as long as plot requires it?
@@user-xx6vy9ri8p Are there enough people still alive to keep up the flow of new infected? I recall that the number of people dying across the world was a bit ridiculous. Vast majority of people died/became infected during the first months, not to mention the amount of both people and infected killed by the military.
@@Kernwadi Thats my issue with the show when they got rid of the spores. If you only have to worry about getting bitten, then how did humanity fall so quickly? Not to say their wouldn’t be chaos, but they’re wouldn’t be The Last Of Us, more like the The Some of Us instead.
@@r.e.z9428 Yop, the fact that they got rid of the spores will never cease to bother me. It changed both very little and a lot. Now that they work as basically any other zombie, all you'd need to counter them is some simple, homemade armour: padded clothes, rubber, scraps of metal, even wood, anything. Not saying it would solve all the problems but it's certainly easier to fight against them without spores.
@@r.e.z9428 If it's in the infection is in the food, that would be catastrophic to society. What is safe to eat? It could have taken weeks or months to find a way to identify what is safe to consume. Most of the government could have been infected before they knew what to avoid. That's how humanity can collapse rapidly.
There's no way they would've held their ground for as long as they did against the infected. They had no formation or strategy except running a few of them over which was an even dumber thing to do because that got in the way of their firing lines & having more shooters is better. Convenient how fast the rest emerge after Joel & co. escape. Their leader & bearded guy knew the infected were underground, didn't tell anyone & are taken completely off guard when they appear? Why did they commit all of their resources chasing after two ppl trying to get away from them, did they forget how dangerous infected are? They allowed her to kill their only doctor, their priorities are backwards. The insufferable woman leader still trying to get her revenge or whatever on Henry & Sam when there's a hoard slaughtering her men right behind her lmfao. The bearded guy pointlessly sacrificing himself for her & the bloater somehow having tunnel vision to ignore everyone else & go after him. I mean, it looks cool at first but if you actually look at the scene it's stupid. All of their guys would be dead in 5 seconds & the fight should be over in 10. Instead it's completely drawn out & we're suppose to believe Ellie had enough time to escape out of the car she climbed into when she could've just ran away immediately. And some of the guys were barely even shooting in the background. The whole scene is ludicrous.
@@KaNoMikoProductions Perhaps if the child zombie had been some kind of tracker used by Kathleen's team, shown on multiple occasions during this and the previous episode, then having it turn on her as part of the attack would have been sharper writing.
Hey gang, tossing out some gun knowledge in relation to the bolt action/semi auto discussion. I have heard some people use the idea that you can reload ammo for bolt actions as a reason to take them. Now I think it is important to point out that reloading ammo requires specific and cumbersome pieces of equipment that makes such a thing not viable for their situation (moving around with no set base). However, there is a reason why reloading is specifically brought up for bolt actions as a plus compared to semi autos. Now technically all bullets can be reloaded no matter what kind of gun is firing them but semi auto firearms need their reloads to be much more careful in construction since the round needs to be powerful enough to cycle the bolt and pick up a new round. If not, you end up with a jam or can even damage the gun. A bolt action is manually cycled (you operate the bolt with the little handle) so an underpowered round will not cause a jam. Just will effect accuracy.
I think having FEDRA been overthrown 10 days before in the timeline causes some issues in the sequence of events. At one point Joel says to Henry he had heard Kansas City guards were the worst. Since FEDRA was only overthrown 10 days ago Joel would have no way of knowing they weren't still in control and it doesn't make sense he would choose to drive through Kansas City where FEDRA was the worst. Also, how and why in 10 days if the people who overthrew FEDRA were so focused on revenge and catching Henry did they have time to set up an ambush for a car where one person is faking injury and another person is throwing a cinder block from the fire escape? How many cars pass through the streets of Kansas City? Did this happen increasingly in the last 10 days since FEDRA was overthrown? Or did they just need that awesome set piece from the game to play out? It's all very convenient.
>and it doesn't make sense he would choose to drive through Kansas City where FEDRA was the worst. Joel has the hesitation about going through Kansas City after finding the road blocked. Was that meant to be because of FEDRA?
For starters, really guys? The hosts of EFAP, who have said a billion times "We are judging what's been said so far" when criticized for stopping someone mid sentence and then changing your attitude if the complete sentence paints a different picture, judging the audience for criticizing the episodes as they come along, seems a bit hypocritical. The audience has the ability to change their mind with additional context when new episodes release. Next up, let's touch on the doctor criticism. There was a huge problem with what you said, countered by this episode. Unlike the people she has captured in this episode, that ratted people and I quote "for medicine, alcohol and apples (food)", the doctor only did it after being threatened at gunpoint as he said. The motivation is very different, he was, essentially, being used by FEDRA as well. You ignored that WHOLE part. Not only that, but she killed the doctor for a matter completely unrelated to her revenge, the people that died when she kills him did so because of a failed ambush SHE set up and went bad and after she learns that if a doctor was present sooner, one of them would have survived. Kathleen: Her being the leader is served through exposition and doesn't really add up. The Kansas rebels were united under a kind leader that favored forgiving. I get that she may have set up the success of the coup, thus giving her a leading role along with the ties to her brother, but all the atrocities happening after completely oppose the previous leader's wishes. Nobody challenges her about her barbaric decisions, despite people apparently "loving her brother". No acknowledgement that she turned them into the new FEDRA. They show some doubt from her right hand man, who appears to be second in command, but even when her quest for revenge (caused by her ignoring the underground threat in the previous episode despite being warned by him) leads to the death of his men around him, he doesn't say "screw her" and assume command to save his people ordering a retreat in their massive VEHICLES, instead he sacrifices himself for her...his doubt led nowhere. Joel and Ellie: It's fascinating to me how you use the game when it fits your defense but choose to ignore it when it doesn't. Joel and Ellie in the game get way longer characterization and their relationship builds up in more than just the cutscenes presented. The advantage I guess of being a game is that you can develop characters during gameplay as well. In the show, Joel is inconsistent. They've changed the order of certain events (nothing wrong with that btw) but they want to keep the payoffs of said events even if they don't fully fit in anymore. Joel will call Ellie cargo in one moment and then act like her father in the next one. The whole premise of the "water smoothening the rock" isn't as effective since we don't know how much time these two have spent together (the weakness of having so few episodes and limited screen time). And I said it before, since your brought it up Mauler, Bill's letter the way they have changed that storyline would only reinforce Joel's distaste towards Ellie. Bill asks him to take care of Tess and the reason he failed was because he was taking care of Ellie, despite what Ellie says. The line of "don't blame me for something that aint my fault" isn't that strong coming from someone he considers cargo, especially for someone as important to him as Tess. In any case, in the show it seems very rushed. To end this needless and pointless long comment, a few problems I had with the episode. 1) Having both Henry and Kathleen give us the background for why Kathleen hunts them down, while showing the same perspective from both sides, seems kind off reductant. Like, it's bloat. It adds nothing new to what Henry says. Not a bad scene in itself, but kind off pointless. 2) After that 1st sniper shot catches them by surprise, you can really feel the plot armor kicking in. "It's nighttime and he's a terrible shot" then why was he handed the lookout position? Changing the young sniper to an older one just to have that as an excuse was dumb. Joel not immediately shooting that old man when he gets the chance to also seems out of character. This is an enemy combatant trying to kill you. After that Joel nails every shot when he needs to to save Ellie, Henry and Sam. The horde arrives exactly when needed to save those three from the rebels. When two zombies are after Ellie and Joel can't save her, a truck happens to hit them. The clicker (again) arrives just in time to stop just Kathleen and not jump at them as well. And of course, Sam turning into a zombie overnight and not attacking Ellie who is fast asleep in the same room as he is. Why make that the case...I don't understand. 3) The clicker...why would the clicker, in all that gunfire, screaming and vehicle noise choose to go after Ellie inside the car? And why would it follow her after she got out of it? There is so much more noise happening around it it makes no sense, it's there just to save them from Kathleen. 4) If Ellie believes her blood is medicine, why didn't she try that with Tess? Or the infected she experimented on and killed in the basement? Again, seems like it was put there for the emotional impact, but it doesn't add up. Yeah that's it I guess. I would give the episode a solid 7/10, maybe even a soft 8. It's definitely the best of the season so far.
A couple of criticisms for this episode: When exiting the tunnels and trying to sneak out of the city, Joel and the group walk in the middle of the road rather then taking a better path to not be seen (go through the back yards like he does when flanking the sniper). When Joel goes to flank the sniper, the sniper does nothing to prepare for Joel, despite seeing Joel going around the side of the houses. If the sniper was aiming down the stairs and ready for Joel, then Joel would have died due to how badly Joel clears the stairs (he takes forever to even look at the top of the stairs). How does one drive all the zombies underground? Even if you could bait or trick most of them into the tunnels and then destroy/block the entrance, you would not be able to get all of them and more would pop up from zombies venturing into the city or people getting turned by the remaining ones. When the zombies come from out of the hole, Ellie, Sam, and Henry are the furthest from the zombies and would probabbly be fine if they just ran to Joel while the zombies were attacking the large group. Joel should have checked Henry and Sam for bites 100%. They were just surrounded by infected and Joel covered Ellie as she ran over to them being grabbed at by zombies. Joel is the only one with a loaded gun after they escape the infected and wouldnt take no for an answer. Joel leaves his gun inbetween himself and Henry so that when Sam starts attacking Ellie, Henry can grab it. If Joel would have had the gun on his side or on him like he probably would have, then Joel would kill Sam and possibly Henry too if he fought him.
The episode is pointing out at various points how careless Henry tends to be, he immediately thinks his plan has worked after 10 seconds in the tunnel, and the same after they exit the tunnel. However, I can agree that Joel should have done the same as he did in the tunnel, and insist that they continue to be cautious. The sniper was obviously not a trained marksman or soldier, for all we know he thought Joel was running away or looking for something else, perhaps he even thought that he did manage to shoot one of them behind the car and Joel ran to look for a first aid kit or something. I can't judge about Joel clearing the stairs, he might have done a better job. Maybe by funnelling them into the tunnels or some other underground areas and blocking off the exits? We don't know any context, so I wouldn't really count that towards any negatives or positives in terms of criticism. That's just character decisions, Henry was probably in shock and terror, he said himself that he has never been violent himself, so being surrounded by all this violence and shooting was surely terrifying to him. Who knows, perhaps if they decided to run then and there, Kathleen or Perry would have spotted them and shot them in the back. And for the last two, fair enough, and maybe. Joel could be more careful and controlled here
You guys went from being overly critical to sounding like paid reviews. I have to assume this is on purpose. Regardless your losing a fan from the Soma days.
