Effective Modern Layouts w/ Mo Pinel - Volume 1 

omg I didnt know it...He was a friend of mine back in the early 80's. I worked for Carter's Lane Service and he was quite involved with Mo, thus meeting him and having some great times. I even went to bowling lanes during the night with them to help with the refinishing of the lanes. Wow.....that's too bad...I will have to check out his obit then.

There are so many Bowling balls, I tried just about all of them.

​@javierhdez3962 you got any you want to donate. 😁

The Insane Shecklador why do u like the sym ball now ? I want a later hook and assumed the asym better at that but I guess I was wrong I like a hockey stick shape

I second this.

Yes! In the works!

@@RadicalBowling thank you!

Mo, thanks for all your very informative info. Could you talk about layouts for the full rollers. ?

I've been waiting on no-thumb videos

I buy 3" or 4" PVC pipe and cut off a 1" piece to make a ball cup. You can thank me later.

Ditto. I wonder who else is just as good. I need help

I legit quit the sport after 25+ years of bowling in leagues because of fact I've NOT been able to find a pro shop that can drill my ball properly. I've had over 25 balls drilled in the last 5 years leading up to me walking away from the sport for good and of those 25 balls I had 5 or 6 different PSO's layout my gear. None of them fit properly.. non stop sores on my thumb, issues with release, some balls have holes that are way too large, some way too small, it's just BAD! When I lived in Sacramento I used to get my gear drilled from the same guy for 15+ years and he got every single ball right! These days PSO's don't seem to give a rats ass about their customers unless you go in and spend thousands of dollars in their shop.. half of them won't even measure your hand or watch you throw a ball to get proper PSA.. it's pathetic.. the sport is dying.. It's so obvious! Just look at how every single bowling center (at least 95% of them) are all older than 30+ years and are falling apart! The 3 centers we have out here NEVER oil the lanes anymore outside of leagues! There are several days of the week where you can go bowl and your ball will legit just dump into the left gutter now matter how much you come up the back of the ball! You literally have to throw plastic house balls if you plan on keeping your ball on the lane because of how dry the conditions are! Ever since the pandemic bowling centers seem to be getting so much worse! @@StephRenee812

Yeah. Just flip the label upside down.

Me too.

Speed dominate players have a ball speed that out-weighs their rev rate. And rev dominant players have a high rev rate that tends to overpower the ball speed. I believe that's what it means.

The same way we would anyone else. A pro shop can get your PAP, tilt, rev rate and ball speed. From there, they can layout the ball accordingly.

The PSA moved back approximately 90% in a symmetrical ball when the balance hole was plugged. The difference in reaction was nominal and not worth voiding the manufacturer warranty by plugging a weight hole.

Tyler Stine you could probably drill the balance hole then only fill the top maby put some foam in the hole but that’ll only work for a little while cuz after a few years they’ll know u shouldn’t have a plugged ball anymore I think in 2 yrs only asymmetrical will b made

Did you determine your PAP prior to them drilling the ball? What you describe would only make sense for a ball with a simple pancake core.

Better to ask any one of the pro shop owners on that

Pastor JT Thornton Yes I think it was just at random since he said that the PSA (Preferred Spin Axis) on a symmetrical will be the thumb hole.

I'm no mo pinnel... but the way this has been explained to me in the past is: Shorter oil, you want a shorter pin to pap distance so the ball transitions quickly. Longer oil, you want longer pin to pap distances so the ball transitions slower.

It's a contributing factor to a quicker response reaction, but Pin to PAP must also be considered here.

- depends on how high above the midline you put the pin - but generally ball would total flare less & have a shorter interim period between it's total Skid Phase & total Roll Phase .. .. ''Slower'' & ''Smoother'' relates more to Differential & Friction characteristics .. [true of symmetrical also ]

Plantation Storage What ball are you throwing?

In a nutshell.... yes, the ball layout along with the ball surface is what determines how quickly the ball transition and how early or late the ball reads the pattern. Sounds like you have a relatively low surface ball (2000 or below) combined with a very high response layout (when it sees friction, it wants to scream left, or right if your a lefty). First thing I would do is have your ball surface adjusted a bit higher, especially if your bowling on standard house shots... something around 3 or even 4000 grit.

You are probably throwing way to slow and/or getting it to the dry too early

VAL-Vertical Axis Line, the vertical line parallel to your grip along your PAP-positive axis point, point where your ball spins around when you throw it. PSA-Preferred Spinning Axis, if the ball rolled forever, it would eventually spin around this point (or if you use a determinator). Hope that helps!

good question would love to know about this as well

Cg placement makes no difference

@@kylewagner6607 - No difference ??? .. My experience and basic deductive reasoning contradicts that assertion.. How much difference can be debated - but there is a difference & it's a worthwhile exploitable difference .. I've even met bowlers who say they can feel difference off their hand

Speed dominant means you throw the ball faster than it spins. In other words speed dominant players tend to have a little less reaction in the ball and should close the angles to keep it tight and in the pocket...

The cg means nothing on a sym ball as he said. He used pin to pap and degrees from pin to determine the val.

Duh...

Hey Mark, the only track that should matter is the initially one that's created when you lay the ball down. If the grip and release is the same for the plastic and reactive ball I would use the ball that flares the least because it will make it the easiest to get as accurate of a measurement as possible as long as the track lines are still defined.

They matter a great deal, but fine tuning your reaction with a PSA will become even more crucial after August 1st, 2020. You have to get it right the first time since you will not be able to put an extra hole in the ball.

You're spinning the ball instead of throwing it and letting it come off your hand

Here you go www.bowlersreference.com/Ball/Layout/Dual.htm

Harder to throw through the break point means that the ball will dig in and rev up without over skidding down the lane.

So this would be a good thing, right? Thank you for the great videos and tons of information you offer.

déjá bowler cranker

He probably just wanted to make this video as short as possible. PAS stands for "preferred spin axis' it the part of your ball that is the most dense essentially so it will want to align to that axis as it rolls down the lanes. PAP stands "positive axis point" but is also called just axis point a lot. It's one end of the line that creates the axis that your ball spins around(like how the earth spins around the line between the north and south poles) when you let go of it and changes from bowler to bowler. The positive one is the one to the right of the grips for a right handed and to the left for a lefty. VAL I'm not sure about the acronym but I would assume it stands for 'Vertical Axis Line' and its essentially just an imaginary vertical line through the PAP. Hope that helps, but essentially no matter how much you learn about layouts I've found you'll always run into more acronyms you have to look up if you want to keep up with what people are trying to say.

PSA is preferred spin axis. PAP is positive axis point. VAL is vertical axis line.

you can get a lot more information here: wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Proshop_Information . There is a wealth of info here. Read, re-read, rinse, repeat...

CG doesn't matter. Symmetrical balls do not have a PSA so Mo skips the step of drill angle on the symmetrical ball.

On a symmetrical ball, 6-3/4" from the pin through the center of the bridge.

@@RadicalBowling wonderful. Thank you for the reply. Lots of unanswered questions for us no-thumbers

I have all my balls drilled this and they crush the pins you shouldn't have a problem

So put in a very large IT when you throw it 2 handed so your thumb just swims in the hole and change it to one that fits your thumb when you need to go 1 handed.

Patrick Clark my thumb hole is drilled for my thumb. The USBC rules state that if you bowl 2 handed then you can’t have a thumb hole. That’s what everyone says but according to what I read it can either be a thumb hole OR a balance hole. You can’t have both. I must be reading it wrong then. Because that’s my understanding that I can’t hav any other hole besides my 2 finger holes. And I’ve never had a balance hole in any of my equipment. Out of the 13 years I’ve been bowling, not once.

@@Lucky_Logan I know many 2 handed bowlers that use their thumb, themes just don't use it to as the primary means to hold onto the ball like you do when bowling 1 handed. If you have a large IT that your thing will basically fall out of and you have your thumb in the hole when bowling 2 handed you are using the hole. When you need to change to a 1 handed release then change the IT to fit your thumb. This will eliminate the need for duplicate equipment. Every hole in a ball must have either a finger or thumb in it, no more unused holes. No more weight/balance holes.