Egyptian MiG-19s In Combat, Part 1 

Thanks for all the explanation about the details, however what it matters is the historical event.

Really nice to see the MiG-19 featured 👍 Another small correction would be that the MiG-19S only had cannon armament with no missiles. And for most of their relevant career the 19P didn't either, this being a 1967 modification of the Soviet PVO interceptors to try to keep them relevant at that point in time when the rest of the newer interceptor fleet used missiles as their primary armament. Pakistan did use PL-2s and even J/P model sidewinders in their Chinese J-6s however. I know it technically looks wrong, but if you have the rest of the scenes for part 2 recorded already it's not neccesary to remake them without missiles, it's not worth to repeat all the work 🙏

@@Lemard77 Thanks, that seems to be correct. Although, there's a color profile in Nicolle's and Cooper's book of an Egyptian MIG-19 with R-3S missiles but that is from 1969. There's also a testimony of a pilot who fought two Mirages that same year (you'll see that battle in part 2) and he was supposedly returning from a training mission in which he had launched his missiles. It could be that they were modified after the Six Day War. And yes, all the scenes are already done 😟

@@showtime112 That's really interesting, nice to learn about, there may have been own modifications by the Egyptians yeah, you can find a photo of an Egyptian MiG-21MF with four AIM-9J/P sidewinders loaded in it

Also, the pilot appears to be Vietnamese.

The missiles were very unreliable, especially on low level where much of the fighting was taking place. Mirages achieved almost all of their kills with cannons.

Early days in the age of air to air missiles and their performance did not live up to expectations hence back to the guns. Remember at this point America is involved in Vietnam and is learning that maybe the F4 Phantom could do with a gun while they get these new fangled missiles sorted out.

Thanks a lot! Dogfights were one of the main inspiration for the videos I make. But I don't use the same approach.

Thank you for watching and commenting!

Thanks! It seems like a few Egyptian MiG-19s were lost too early in their operational years.

Thanks for this feedback and for sharing experience. As a person who started playing flight sims on 8-bit computers, the progress they made is unbelievable.

I appreciate your confidence, thanks!

Yes, French design has always been something special 😁

I'm glad you liked it, thank you!

Glad you still like the videos, thanks!

Glad you liked it, thanks!

Thank you very much!

Thanks, I appreciate it!

Thank you for the feedback!

Thanks a lot!

Thank you for another donation!

Thanks a lot!

Grazie, I'm glad you enjoy the videos!

I'm very glad to hear it, thank you!

Thanla for the comment! They did a little better later but you'll see it on the sequel.

Muito obrigado! I make the kind of content that I'd like to watch myself.

@@showtime112 Por isto teus videos são ótimos. Agradeço sua atenção.

كم ايويهة النذل

Hoping that the IDF will follow through and publish an unfiltered list of their aircraft losses for the Yom Kippur's 50th anniversary (IIRC, the records could could be declassified after that mark), even Western experts have expressed ""some"" doubts about the claim that the IDF lost just a little over a 100 aircraft during the whole operation... Not holding my breath, though, not holding it at all.

​@@miquelescribanoivars5049both sides lost about 400 jets each

Thanks! The channel's name actually came from the callsign of an F-4J Phantom flown by Cunningham and Driscoll in Vietnam. MiG-19 was probably most important as a stepping stone for the MiG bureau where they gained experience with supersonic fighters.

That's cuz the NVA migs (at least the supersonic ones) weren't supposed to dogfight, they were supposed to intercept and disrupt the strike package. If they get a kill, that's great, but if the strike dumps its' bombs to get more speed and maneuverability, then even better. So for the "21" it was one fast pass to fire missiles then disengage fast. It worked well, because a Mig21 was a small plane that was hard to see, with a clean burning engine (no exhaust trails). It was said that by the time you COULD see a Mig 21, they were already in range to use their 'atoll' missiles-and often did. The Mig 19s were almost a 'spry' as a mig 17 and had the advantage of being supersonic as well as having those huge cannons. I think the planes that were lost to Mig19s during the 1972 'Linebacker' campaigns were all lost to guns. The F4 got fixated on an unlucky Mig21 then got bounced by a Mig19 (I think they -the Mig 19s- were 'hiding in the weeds' when they engaged).

@@showtime112 You’re correct of course. Olds was Wolf.

@@showtime112 Pity about Randy Cunningham doing time for bribery. He’s quoted as saying “If you’re not cheating you’re not trying.” As an instructor at Top Gun. I guess he took that philosophy a bit too far.

@@donparker1823 I'd say he was probably a much better pilot than a politician 😁

Thank you for watching!

Glad to hear it, thanks!

Glad to hear it!

Thanks! If you have an urge to play DCS, I don't see why you should hold back 😁 Here's the Mirage link www.lockonforum.de/community/thread/8294-mirage-iii-c-s/

Thank you for this positive feedback!

Yes, MiGs generally are known for short legs. Two engines probably made the problem even worse.

@@showtime112Migs tend to be light to medium fighters. Suhkoi is the one who makes the heavy bois

Thanks once again, always good to hear from you! As for the Mirage payload, I had some problems with the fuel tank for the 119 Squadron skin. they simply lacked the texture and I wasn't sure why so I didn't put them.

Thanks! As for that episode with Ronin, I'll probably cover that someday too.

Granted the Dogfights episodes are almost if not more than 10 years old at this point.

Thanks a lot!

Thank you very much for your positive comment!

Yes, there's a lot of discrepancy between the two sides.

Well, according to some theories, ancient Egyptians may have had flying machines 😁😁

@@showtime112 and take for sure Egyptian pharaos would get very disappointed after asking. Some questions to anyone for the Israeli ace fighters,.imagine the talk: One of the pharaos: Why your vimana (I ignore egyptian word for vimana) is slow, so smokey, and so unagile. -israeli fighter pilot: my vi,, what? Don't mind son, you wouldn't understand it

Thanks for providing info!

Many other spectacular angles throughout the video, some close up with the aircraft and some static from a distance. Very well done.

Yes, I was happy with that one too. It's mostly about the sun. It needs to be low to get the best results. All the Top Gun scenes were shot only in those 'golden hour' periods in the morning and evenings.

Thanks!

It was a very special airplane for sure!

Yes, it seems like in the 60s, Arab militaries were more about politics than about competence. That changed after the Six Day War and it looks like their level of training improved dramatically.

​@@showtime112 I agree - but after the 1973 Arab/Israeli (Yom Kippur) War, the Israelis ended up steaming ahead and ended up always being one step ahead. As you know, the Israeli Air Force was absolutely decimated by Egyptian SAMs which allowed the Egyptian army to retake the Suez. Where the Arabs f*cked up was Sadaat (Egypt) told Assad (Syria) that "we're going all the way to Israel", Assad believed him - but Sadaat only had the intention of taking back the SInai. So, the Syrian attack to retake the Golan went really well but then the Syrians realised the Egyptians weren't advancing. The Israelis also realised the Egyptians stopped so the IDF redeployed most of their forces to the North and beat back the Syrians. Assad cried for help - but against the wishes of General Sa'ad El Shazli, Sadaat ordered the Egyptians to leave their defensive SAM umbrella and head intot he Sinai. The Israeli air force decimated the Egyptians and then Ariel Sharon saw a gap in the Egyptian lines, broke through and cut off the Egyptian army from Cairo. So, Israeli victory wasn't really about Israeli superiority but more about Arab stupidity. But, from the late 1970s/early 1980s, the Israelis got F-15s and F-16s and now the F-35. The Egyptians and Jordanians only have F-16s but the former ordered Dassault Rafales. The Syrians wanted to buy the Su-35 and S-300s but I don't think that order went through.

I'm not so sure though, Tom Cooper who is one of the top researchers of military aviation history in the Middle East claims that the Egyptian Air Force had pretty high training standards with some fighter units having an impressive log book of flight hours and combat training. Instead Tom Cooper blames the poor showing on the quality of the Soviet built air-to-air armament, in the Six Days War the equippment was comparable but the IDF destroyed most of the combat planes on the ground while in the Yom Kippuer War Israel had a massive edge with the Shafrir-2's and AIM-9G's missiles being vastly superior to the R3S's as well as Western planes having general better cannons and fcs.

@abdulmismail yeah u are right about Jordanian pilots being better trained. I remember watching a documentary about Israel Air Force Mirage III pilots engaged in a dogfight RJAF Hawker Hunter pilots, and specific israeli pilot did manage to eventually shoot down the Jordanian Hawker Hunter, but he did say that it was one hell of a dogfight because the Jordanian pilot was extremely skilled and the Jordanian pilot led the Mirage III into a canyon nearly crashing in the process. Yes the RJAF did get decimated in the Six day war because the IAF’s successful air interdiction campaign operation focus, but the Jordanians had some success in shooting down some Mysteres in their hawker hunters and it was specifically done by PAF pilot Saiful Azm, hell even the Iraqi Air Force did also have some success against Vautours and Mirage IIIs in their hunters and they were lead by Saiful Azm as well. Am I right or is this correct info?

@@moalzaben5554 Yes, you're correct. You're referring to "Dogfights of the Middle East" or "Desert Aces" from The History Channel. I gave my copy to a former Bangladesh Air Force Air Chief Marshall. Group Captain (Retd.) Saiful Azam was a Bengali who flew for the Pakistan Air Force prior to partition. I used to communicate with him about 13 years ago.

There's more coming, thanks for the feedback!

I remember that Israelis did mock dogfights with that MiG-21 which defected from Iraq against Mirages. MiG supposedly won every time.

Thank you very much!

Thanks! Maybe I'll cover that story one day. I don't have detailed information on it but maybe I can dig something up.

@@showtime112 ok maybe I can provide some info if you need me to.

@@batelube3241 Sure, if you have any good sources, feel free to let me know.

You are definitely the first viewer to make such comment.

I can't argue with that.

I think they painted them in camo, or most of them, by the Yom Kippur War a little later. IIRC.

@@NefariousKoel Certainly. But the Israelis had them in natural metal in 1967. Thing is, though, that I thought the MiGs were in natural metal too in 1967.

@@BruceK10032 - Not sure exactly when but I recall a story of the Egyptian aircraft being hurriedly painted with whatever paint they could come up with on short notice, at some point. Think they said much of it was paint originally intended for cars.

Salut Jeanne, weekend terminé 😅. Vidéo excellente. Une partie des infos ont été fournis par moi surtout pour commentaires. D'ailleurs mon nom est a la fin de la vidéo pour me.remercier. les chevilles enflent. Et la comme d'habitude... tout au canon👍

@@dominiqueroudier9401 On prend de l'importance.

@@jeannezehner9450 surtout pour l'aider. J'ai beaucoup de docs sur ces conflits et bien d'autres. Ça peut toujours servir de mettre une photo d'époque dans la vidéo. Je lui ai envoyé la photo prise au sol du Mirage 3 CJ de Ran Ronen qui a bute les 2 Mig 19 ainsi que du pilote et les pistards autour du zinc. Je serai incapable de faire une vidéo comme ça. Vivement la 2e partie En plus le Mig 19 a eu un taux d attrition élève même en temps de paix

@@dominiqueroudier9401 Un véritable musée de la mémoire aérienne !! Par contre, j'ai un type qui vient de m'écrire sur une autre vidéo d Showtime et qui m'affirme que des IFF existaient pendant la deuxième guerre mondiale, comme sur Spitfire et sur Me-109 ? Peux tu éclairer ma lanterne à ce sujet please ?

@@jeannezehner9450 Oui , je revérifier sur des schémas éclatés de me 109 Donc il est basique couplée au poste radio FuG16ZY, s'appelle FuG25a. Le câble sort du fuselage verticalement pour se fixer au câble radio qui va du mat jusqu'à tête de dérive vertical. Pour Fw190 c'est pareil a part que c'est une petite antenne vertical pointant vers le bas. Se situe au niveau cocarde fuselage en arrière antenne circulaire. Pour le spit. C'est simple un câble (2) qui part du bout des ailerons de profondeur et terminer milieu du fuselage. Je connais pas les fréquences déterminees. Pour le Tempest , voir le grand cirque, il explique le système "canary". Ça agit sur les lampes des scope radar. La radio c'est pas mon truc

Thanks for another comment! I had to mention you sooner or later 😊

Hvala!

That is likely 😬

I wasn't much of a fan before DCS but now, I enjoy flying it. As for the Egyptians, their level of training in the 60s was inferior to Israeli. And their military was probably organized with strong political influence (never a good thing).

"yes inferior Level of Training ........" and soviet style Tactic/training Read Osprey Combat Aircraft No44 "Arab MiG-19 and MiG-21 units in combat", great source

On paper the mig19 and mig21 stand a very low chance against the marage and F4, and it is a miracle that both side had a similar loss ratio of jets

​@realseif4759 In Vietnam, MiG-19s enjoyed success against American F-4s because they were often able to drag the cannonless phantom into close dogfighting combat. The high number of losses on the part of Egypt was more due to training issues

@@mameyn9282 the f4s that belonged to the israelis had cannons, they were also capable of carrying 8 or 12 missiles while the migs only had 2

Yes, it was a combination of several factors but Israeli pilots were top notch, no doubt.

His story has been covered on the channel in a two-part video. Feel free to check it if you haven't.

They did a little better later. Not entirely better but a little 😁

Thanks! It seems to be their philosophy 😁

I kinda like MiG-19 because it's a bit overlooked. Its older and younger siblings get a lot more attention.

That was an episode of the "Dogfights" series. Excellent series. History channel has posted them all on a RU-vid playlist for free now!

@@NefariousKoel thanks for reminding me dude, I have to say that was one hell of a dogfight, the Jordanian might have been shot down, but he did pull off some crazy maneuvers

The Israeli pilot was Ran Ronen who claimed two MiG-19 kills over Hurghada

It is on my 'to do' list

I guess they had to be like that. Arab militaries were often more about politics, tribes etc.

It's not out yet

I thought that it was pretty obvious that this video is not based only on Israeli sources. And no matter how much Israeli sources might be skewed, it doesn't make much sense that losses were equal, especially not in the Six Day War. It was a clear victory, nobody even tries to challenge that. At best, you might prove that some of the downed Israeli aircraft were shot down by Arab aircraft and not by air defense.

Thank you very much! That show was one of the inspirations for the channel.

@@showtime112 you’re welcome! I actually worked at the company that made it, but I was on a different project called Battle 360 at the time so I never worked on DF directly.

😊

Što se tiče Šestodnevnog rata, ne bi bilo drastične razlike. Možda bi nešto više Miragea bilo oboreno ali rat je za Arape izgubljen na strateškoj razini. Nespremnost, nagomilani avioni u bazama, konfuzija u vodstvu.... Do rata 1973, Arapi su vrlo značajno digli razinu obuke pilota. Postigli su nešto više uspjeha ali ih je kočila tehnologija (R-3S rakete recimo) tako da im je uspjeh opet izmakao.

@@showtime112 Hvala 🙂

That story is covered in part 2

found it thx

Actually not that is an oversight. In my defense, I was coming down with a fever so my attention to detail was questionable 😁 It looks like they had missiles after tge Six Day War

Well, if you want to watch fantasy, find some fantasy chanel.

Something they probably should have done back in 1948 but I guess it wasn't possible for various reasons.

If you think it is a Syrian skin, it really isn't. Egypt kept calling itself 'The United Arab Republic' years after that union broke up and their Air Force kept using the same insignia until 1971 I think. This ia period correct.

Thank you very much!

Nice to hear from you, Pappa!

@@showtime112 Hey, I hope you have a great weekend! 🥳

DCS World

@@showtime112 thank you

You'll have to explain that.

@@showtime112 Chinese maker of certain migs used by counties such as egypt!🤔 Jman

Well, in this war it wasn't much different for other types.

You weren't looking very well. But if you are one of those viewers who just wants to see how awesome his compatriots are, then please watch something else!

Wrong!

And you expected to se a massive Arab victory? Seriously? Dude, you are not helping me control my ego. I will really start thinking that the only reason for disliking my videos must be sheer idiocy 🤣

It's DCS World. The basic core is free and you can download it here: www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/world/

Thankyou!

Hvala na komentaru!

That's not a flag, it's a fin flash. And it was correct for the 1985-1972 period.

Dude, you are wrong and one single comment would be more than enough. Let alone three.

Hvala i za ovo!