Elden Ring Lore | Lionel Deep Dive 

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays! Hope you enjoy our take on the story of Lionel. What are your thoughts on Lionel’s relationship with Fia - is it chivalrous… or odd?

"he preferred duels over other, less chivalrous forms of violence" shows mages casting their stupid glintstone pebbles from a balcony, absolutely correct

For being the ghostly reincarnation of our beloved onion brother, Lionel is such a mysterious character. Praise the black onion champion!

Wake up honey, hawkshaw uploaded a greatly researched video on a topic no one talks about in Elden Ring

You know it's really interesting the cape on his back having three rapiers when Rogier also wields a rapier. But who could the third be

*_Note to Self_* : Start Lionel cosplay playthrough and finally use all those death sorceries you literally haven't touched in a thousand hours.

I enjoyed this bit about Lionel, a charter that I didn't know too much about until after watching this video.

“Prefers duels to other less chivalrous forms of violence” - proceeds to spam auto target skulls with infinite mana

My own personal wild guess: The three rapier pointing the eclipse represents Lionel, Rogier and Prisoner. All three of them are using sorcery and are obsessed with death (which might be the reason prisoner is imprisoned?).

That background music is so great.

Pretty sure the Undead "choosing" to not return to Erdtree is either a misunderstanding by that ghost or a some specific case, because those who champion Those Who Live in Death say how they are persecuted due to "no fault of their own".

Lionel mirroring Catarina knight themes while barely being in the game. I dunno, it hits different. Still feels like we're missing our jolly beer man even if making him a three musketeers reference is a notable improvement.

Age of Mythology music in the back - an absolute gentleman and scholar.

The Age of Mythology music is a trip I didn't expect to take lol

I know it’s never comfirmed but one can asume that The Roundtable Hold might have some sort of ward over it that prevents people from killing each other(since Ensha had to transport us to an alt version of the Hold, to kill us) that why Fia is trapped since she’s unable to kill D. But then she somehow found a way to dispel the ward in that storage room and used us to bait D (since if she went to D, he might have not fall for it).

Of this quest specifically, I was hoping it would change the world upon new game plus. It's the one place From Soft hasn't gone...what's the world like if you chose "darkness ending"

Love the age of mythology music in the background

Damn, I just noticed Gothic 2 music playing at 8:38. Hawkshaw is truly a man of culture, not just for Fromsoftware games, but gaming in general.

This is an interesting assessment of what Lionel may have believed! For overall lore though, I feel many elements are missed here, and the truth might be much darker. For starters, we find what appears to be Lionel's corpse on a bed, but there's no body for the Deathbed Dress. This placement, and the notion that the other party left without their clothing, raises the disturbing implication that Lionel slept with his own daughter. Fia may have been adopted and, judging from the intro art, an adult upon becoming a Tarnished, but Lionel adopted her as his daughter nonetheless. This heinous deed implies a fall from honor for the supposedly virtuous man, and it's particularly abusive if the idea was all his own. The position of Lionel's corpse on the bed also indicates that he was last alive while sitting up, so his corpse wasn't being held in some pagan attempt to revive him. Additionally, Lionel's corpse bears flaming burns on his legs, as if some power was destroying him. There's nothing to imply that Lionel was ever touched by the Frenzied Flame, so perhaps a literal diseased burning ended his life, as if to mirror Rogier's slow end from the Death Blight. Something similar appears to be the case with the corpse found in the Fortified Manor's equivalent to Fia's chamber, perhaps related to another champion in the boss fight, if Fia was ever among the Manor's era of Tarnished. Some fragment of Lionel might fight for Fia's cause at the Deeproot Depths, but the very nature of the boss fight calls into question whether he's agreeing to this. We can infer from Rogier's actions and dialogue that he has been meeting with Fia before the player ever arrives in the Lands Between. Therefore, Fia has likely been taking Rogier's life force for some time. When Rogier begins dying at the Roundtable Hold, he'll make a peculiar comment that implies he has increasingly been losing his sense of self and freedom of choice: "Hmm. Maybe I should tell you. Lately, I feel I'm on the precipice... Of falling into a deep...fathomless slumber. And I have an inkling it could spell trouble for you, somehow. So I just wanted to get the apology out of the way, beforehand. Since you're so scary and all." Here Rogier feels that something of him, something separate from his own choices, decisions, and personal views, could become a danger for the player, and he's sorry that this might be the case. With the Fia's Champions boss fight, the worry has a clear answer -- Fia is manipulating people's souls to do her bidding. The whole, living person wouldn't do these things, but as a sliver and controlled by Fia, they'll become threats to people they normally see as friends. The coloration of these "champions" is also of particular importance here, as the only other time a blue spirit of that shade appears is when someone has been enslaved by Starlight Shards potions, when the person's free will is destroyed and their body becomes a "puppet." Thus, Fia's "Champions" may actually be enslaved portions of people she has touched. If the person ultimately dies later, even more of their soul might be funneled into slavery, possibly explaining Lionel's status as the strongest "champion" aside from him being a knight. While his sign might still appear at the Radahn Festival, perhaps that too is a sort of ghost. The concept of Spirit Ashes hardly dispels these worries, as the ashes themselves are just said to be carrying out old actions from life rather than entirely aware. Finlay carried Malenia to safety across the Lands Between, but Finlay's ashes can fight Malenia to the death. Tiche died to block a blow meant for her mother, showing how dearly she cared for Alecto. However, Tiche's ashes obey orders without hesitation despite the player killing Tiche's beloved mother to receive Tiche's remains. Tricia was a doctor to the downtrodden, the misbegotten, the omens, etc., even fighting alongside a Misbegotten Warrior when encountered in a catacomb. However, the moment Tricia is killed by the player, the perfumer's ashes can be made to kill the very people who were her patients, the people she tried to cure and risked her life to defend. Latenna alone seems to keep any shred of her will as a summon, but she'll still attack her fellow Albinaurics. Only the Stormhawk King can refuse this summon, keeping his full mind and will. Back to Lionel's actions, one of his spells is concerning: Rancorcall, an art that commands the ancient souls of those burned in Ghostflame then raked out by the Deathbirds. Nothing about the Deathbirds' conduct implies that they denied anyone evil a "proper" rest or death. Instead, the Sacrificial Axe and Branchsword talismans, carried by the Deathbirds themselves, note them to be malevolent and fixated on ways in which people suffer and die. There is thus no intention for Ghostflame to ever bring rest to the deceased, and the tool simply torments souls until they become mindless pawns that inflict torment in turn. With this proof of what befell people predating the Erdtree, the figurative predecessors to Those Who Live in Death, Lionel instead embraces exploiting the very souls Fia supposedly wants to save. The Ghostflame, the Death Blight, etc. making the dead mindless and violent is implied even for those with bodies. The player can encounter Darian in the overworld as he mourns the death of a random civilian at the hands of the undead. The culprit is the Tibia Mariner of the nearby Summonwater Village, a place destroyed by Those Who Live in Death, and this ghoulish figure hardly even shows kindness to his skeleton pawns, instead crushing them recklessly with his boat. The tragedy of Summonwater Village is evidently repeated near the Artist's Shack in Liurnia and the Wyndham Ruins at Altus Plateau, and the Deathroot growing there further emphasizes the connection to Those Who Live in Death. Speaking of D's presence at Summonwater, the Hunter of the Dead is hardly forcing Fia to seek shelter in the Roundtable Hold. Darian will leave to search for Deathroot to help Gurranq, implied to be a regular occurrence. Furthermore, Fia's actions betray no fear of D either. If players ignore Fia and go to the Deeproot Depths, Fia will nonetheless appear once her "champions" are defeated. This cuts the Roundtable Hold part of her quest entirely, letting players simply work for Ranni then hand Fia one cursemark even before killing Maliketh. Speaking of cursemarks, if players choose to kill D near Summonwater, he won't drop any such cursemark, so it's likely that he never had one after all. What this indicates, along with Fia having the Weathered Dagger, is that Fia already had Godwyn's cursemark and instead sought to kill D for hunting the undead. The Weathered Dagger was likely damaged and marred with Death Blight from the time when Devin, Beholder of Death carved it from Godwyn's corpse, and the rune probably adhered to the blight in the blade. Rather than staying true to a noble goal, Lionel and Fia seem to be straying from the honorable intentions they claim to fight for. The father and daughter also appear to turn blind eyes to the things implying that Those Who Live in Death are not merely people with a stigma. Fia's endeavors are even at odds with restoring the world, as "Destined Death" rejoining the Elden Ring would seemingly just fully kill the undead. The cursemarks of death are also the broken halves of a single cursemark designed to kill a person's body and soul. Instead, as observed in the Duskborn ending, Fia's rune preserves the plague, the Death Blight mist and the flies that dart around Godwyn's corpse. Even if she may have started with good intentions, Fia's actions could ultimately thwart a return of true death to the Golden Order and instead make the misery of Those Who Live in Death eternal. Therefore, if Lionel indeed willingly supported Fia's goals without wavering, then he too turned a blind eye to a fundamental flaw in the plan. Wow, that posted ended up way longer than I intended it to be. Thanks again for the insightful videos!

Finally got around to watching this from my Watch Later backlog. Glad I did, it's fantastic! I have notes: I wrote up a reddit piece where I explored Fia's movements and goals in the story, attempting to understand how her questline plays out since it's pretty murky. I pretty much had it, but I could never come up with a way in which she retrieves the dagger... How I never thought about Lionel (or even Rogier, frankly) being the ones to get it for her is beyond me. They're literally her 'champions,' goodness me it was so obvious. Great work on this. I also had no idea that Lionel being 'her' father or 'the' father was a change that was made. This has me twisting my perspective on Lionel, not as a dude who slept with his own daughter, but as a dude who wanted to be the father of Those Who Live in Death, or the very least, the Mending Rune that Fia gives birth to. Fia giving birth at the end of the questline literally would make Lionel 'the father' as opposed to her father. I much prefer this. Your mention of Lionel's participation in the Radahn fight was also an 'aha' moment for me. I kind of thought he was just there for kicks and gigs, but he has a motive. FromSoft really do think of everything. Lastly, I only wish the video spoke about his death. Does he sleep with Fia one last time as he's falling victim to deathblight? Maybe because he touched the dagger, too? Does Fia... betray him, absorbing all his vigor when she realized we are the champion she's needed, not Lionel?

Nothing in the game points to this but I like to think in the 5000 years since the shattering a warrior pot found Lionel's body and instead of just milling about in a corner somewhere the pot took his honourable nature and became Iron Fist Alexander.

Full list of music used in the video… You’re everything I’ve ever wanted in a content creator…

I found Fortissax to be too easy as well; I did Fia's questline much later than fighting her champions and the dragon simply didn't have the health or damage to pose much of a threat. Since the reward is a mending rune, I would have the fight be scaled for endgame players. (It was not obvious that having her hug you multiple times would give dialogue, so that's why I didn't progress the quest during my playthrough)

Baldachin’s Blessing contradicts this theory that she’s being “held captive” at the roundtable hold. “Favor bestowed by a deathbed companion. Protection of a hidden temple in the guise of a bedchamber.” The simplest and most sensible explanation is that no one knows she’s there. The interactions make no sense otherwise. The bedchamber is hidden. “Circumstances compel my presence” doesn’t mean she’s there against her will. It just means that she has to be there to achieve her goals.

Hawkshaw my favorite lore man gives me a video for Christmas!!! Thank you!! tis a wonderful Christmas indeed!!

I spent my entire last week thinking about the numerous things we haven't looked at. And here is my favourite guy uploading the Godly video we all need but don't deserve. Long may Hawkshaw shine !

I literally just got off of elden ring where I completed Fia's quest. Perfect timing to understand what I just did.

I hope they add a way to enter into a covenant for Fia in the future like the Wolf covenant or Spears of the Church in DS3.

So glad to see your content again!

Great as always Hawkshaw - one of my favorite questlines.

Thank you for this wonderful, wonderful video Hawkshaw!!! One interesting detail regarding Lionel's fate, though- We find his armor in Lower Leyndell next to the Deathbed Dress. But the Prince of Death Staff he uses as her Champion, ostensibly HIS staff, is found on a corpse in Nameless Eternal City. I'm not totally sure what this may signify given where we recover his armor, but it seems like the kind of detail you'd appreciate :) Food for thought: Nameless Eternal City is beneath the Lower Capital... at the bottom of an enormous chasm, which opened long ago during the Shattering War. Merry Christmas!

Thankyou for the upload! We appreciate every single one!

Very good video. The contemplative, thoughtful style continues to suffuse your content despite passing from the quietude of Souls to the more blatant narrative of Elden Ring. I am glad. Fia's line about being driven from her home because of awakening to Grace was one of the few times I felt engaged by a character in Elden Ring. Lionel is treated unfairly by people who don't understand the context of melancholy and sympathy around Fia's story. Too many people went the 'reddit route' on his character, preferring to think of Lionel more as a sexual sugar daddy than a properly chivalrous knight errant or symbolic father-protector. But I never doubted that those who go abed with Fia are chaste. It is a far deeper, more intimate, sad, yet hopeful relationship than lascivious or lustful. It's interesting that the rain overtakes the atmosphere if you take Fia's ending. It always rains, no matter what, when we defeat Morgott and return from trying to enter the Erdtree. I often have wondered what the significance of this is. As if the Erdtree is weeping.

Merry Christmas! And I really liked the zelda music in the backround

The age of mythology music 👌

I fucking love your channel hacksaw. Another sweet video

wow I'm so happy hawkshaw is releasing content semi-regularly again! Liked and commented before even watching, keep going you're one of the best out there.

Love the dark souls 2 music. It makes it feel like these characters could’ve belonged to that game 😇

I love hearing the variety of background musics you use in these. Anything by Darren Korb (Hades/Bastion) is always a big win for me.

Merry Christmas!

That Age of Mythology background music brings back so much nostalgia for me. Back when I used to play custom games on ESO servers before they went down.

So soon after the colour theory video? Well well, this is a nice suprise. A pity its not like 2 hours long though haha

What? A Hawkshaw video under 45 min? what kind of sorcery is this!?

I knew there was something up with lionels armor

Great Video man!

the age of mythology ost is bringing me back to my childhood lmaooo

The real souls lore champion 👊🏻❤️

Great vid. Ive trying to figure out how the stars show in the day and night cycles, but the stars are being held back or is just the 2 fingers that crash into Ranni's end area. And who killed Ranni when she dies at the same time as Godwyn but he loses his soul, and Ranni loses her body...

Why does the thumbnail look like the fella’s just goin’ “I’ll get you, bitch”, lol?

You guys should do a video regarding Melina's identity!

First time coming across your channel, and starting it off with Twilight princess music and following it with Age of Mythology music was brilliant.

great video as usual and merry chrisler!

Love this video of fia and Lionel! And I subscribed!

My man had swag. That's for sure.

My first vid made from you, i love the in text citations on the side, it makes it easier to piece together information especially countless texts heard throughout the game

Gothic soundtrack in elden ring video? A suprise to be sure, but a welcome one

I think Fia's Champions are easy because that's supposed to be an alternate route into Leyndell. Their difficulty is meant to be on par with the Draconic Tree Sentinel that guards the other access point.

Need to do a cosplay build for Lyonel would be super cool and effective as well high poise with epee (a good PvP weapon ) can’t wait to try just did a Iron Tragoth cosplay was very fun for PvP and helping ppl with bosses

Oh hell yea, its a scrumdis miracle

Great stuff. Quite enjoying this content.

Thanks for video

I don't think I get the idea about the dagger killing D in roundtable hold. If holding the dagger killed tarnished, why doesn't it affect Lionel, Fia, or us before we pass it to D? Why would D look at it and not be concerned about its appearance if the black gash made it cursed? Isn't it more likely Fia thought if we presented one D with the other's dagger it would concern him and get him to move, perhaps to leave the roundtable, so fia could kill him herself in a side room? He'd been sitting right under the roundtable grace, and I think that was more of her problem retrieving the hallowbrand half than anything else. The dagger being marred by a black gash could just tell us whom it had been used on, obviously Godwyn's body. Once he was out of the way, she was able to use her best and only weapon, Fia's Mist, which would not only attract attention if used where D is squatting right in the middle of everything but likely result in undesirable collateral damage. The room we find them in is both where we can enter and exit the real fortified manor discretely, and also appears to be an armory, perhaps where Hewg stores his work. Either of those could explain why D might head there before leaving.

the age of mythology soundtrack is so good, nice choice

Oh Shit Surprise Hawkshaw Vid.

spending time with family and friends soon as I can this is going on tv with the xbox gaming chair turned way up gotta have the perfect watching experience, that and trying to explain the games I play to family and friends is like well theres a ring and its shattered oh and colours mean things and did I mention theres cosmic space horror elements but it's a meadveal themed game ya.. best wait to watch this lmao.

If you don't do Fia's quest, Fia still kills D without you giving him the dagger. Could this be a design oversight? Another thing that just seems like a mistake is the Margit apparition outside of Leyndell. I was gathering some weapons that I missed and in my way he appeared on that old battlefield, even though I just killed Godfrey (the scene literally shows Morgott vanishing out of existence). How is it possible for this event to happen if I killed Morgott?

Just subbed

it's xmas time gather for the best stories

Lore before bed please

So Lionel is like lion-hearted, brave armored musketeer.

Hi vatti! When you take some of this lore for prepare to cry remember to name hawkshaw

Thank you for this insight! I only knew they knew each other and the dad thing but she prolly laid with him when he died? idk that was as far as I could gather without this input. In my unified world theory he's definitely proto-onion. Tragic chivalry indeed Ho ho ho ho!

Very based, thank you for the Christmas gift.

I never give D's brother the armor. I won't let anyone kill Lady Snuggles.

Hey, merry Christmas. The inset type needs to linger long enough for the editor to read it 2-3 times over at regular speed. The viewer, first time watcher will have enough time to absorb the unspoken dialogue

i like the fire emblem gba music ; good channel

Dude you're great

When I found Fia's dress next to his armour I was like "oh, another implication apart from Rogier that she sleeps with her champions." Then I read Lionel's armour description. Truly a certified 🤨 📷 moment

Voice ain't as silky as vaati, but definitely bearable for long periods of time. Thank god.

More bastion music

Fia's champions always have the dual rot axe pumpkin head guy, i thought they were based off of random players hugging fia.

when i fought him in the deep roots i was like “woah whos this guy!?” his attacks are really cool lol

Thumbs up for Gothic soundtrack in the backround :D

Can you do a video on all the endings of elden ring and all the npcs which align with and are working toward which endings

I keep hearing "Vati is doing the visually, emotionally beautiful vids, but Hawkshaw is now lore king"

best elden ring lore channel! ❤

Uses a great epee and also spams rancorcall endlessly. So honourable. So chivalrous.

Lionel could have been the artorius of ER

“Everyone who reaches this boss is shocked by the ease of its challenge” I literally barked out laughing at this preposterous statement. I’ve got 600+ hours in game and no matter what build my character is I take multiple tries to survive the gank squad of Lionel + two player builds. “Especially compared to the challenge of beating Fortissax straight after.” I continue to cackle, as every single playthrough in every build I defeat Fortissax first try. Is this what PvP does to someone? I feel like the only Souls fan who prefers PvE.

leonel was obviously an albenuric. thats why he has such a large helm.

This tone of blue indicates a doll. A different tone indicates spirit ashes.

6:21 i might be wrong but don't we summon spirits that have already went back to the erdtree?

One thing is that FIA doesn’t actually have to die at the end of her quest. You can just not give Devin the armor and the sword and he’ll just be sitting there being goofy.

I like how every other youtuber had no content to post week after elden ring release, and here is Hawkshaw team, still delivering quality videos with things they discovered themselves. All that without rushing, without the everpresent clickbait nonsense. With all respect to other RU-vidrs, may we agree to call Hawkshaw the truest lore explorers? I think we may.

Lionel would probably have a relevance in an ending that is not Death.

The Zelda music threw me off so hard!! 😂🤓

Is the background music age of mythology?!?!

It seems like Lionel may have shared compassion for the dead as well, given that you find his home where the undead can be found in Leyndell..

*deadly*

This video has more sense today.. All of these dead body and live spirit.. Some shadows