There is a meta answer. Zullie the witch has a video about them, they're internally called "buddies" and they were originally meant to be the dedicated spirit summon (along with the zamor knights) before it was decided to make the sprit ash system more robust. That's probably also why their summons are just called "archer ashes" or "greatshield ashes" instead of Fallen Hawk Archers or something more in line with every single other summon. IMO when their purpose was changed they probably just dropped them in this area and wrote a few sentences worth of lore without a second thought. The Zamor knights were given the same treatment by putting them in the mountaintops, renaming the ruins "Zamor Ruins" and calling it a day.
@@8-bitmonster624 there's enough lore to fill in the blanks that they were enlisted to aid in the War against the Giants. Possibly motivated out of revenge for the Giants melting their little icicles.
- Fallen hawks are in close proximity to Stormveil - Stormveil was formerly a kingdom full of, and maybe ruled by hawks - Godfrey/the Golden Order conquered the castle - Stormveil hawk knights are rebranded to Fallen Hawks - Fallen hawks were sent to the underground rivers to check out the ancient culture and/or the Eternal Cities - Fallen hawks are forgotten since the shattering and burn the bones of their fellows
@@BaalFridge Maybe the hawk-ruled-era of Stormveil followed Death Bird rituals before the Golden Order took over, and so these fallen hawks were possibly aware of ghostflame and resorted to creating it after running out of embers in their mysterious "long search". It is interesting how the ghostflame torch phrases it: "... acquiring the cold ghostflame, but sealing their fate as dwellers of the underground for all eternity" It does kinda imply that the creation of ghostflame somehow prevented/detracted them from ever going back to the surface.
@@atlantic_love well to me it's kinda 50/50 whether they discovered ghostflame on accident or if they knew about it and created it intentionally as a last resort source of fire. From/Miyazaki famously likes to keep things vague and he wants people to come up with their own interpretations and explanations, at least from what I remember in an interview
Hawks: We ran out of torch fuel. Quick, let's resort to condemning ourselves by burning eachother in ghostflame! My brother in Godfrey, it's not even that dark, just use the starlight!
I've always thought these were such underrated and cool enemies. I'm actually planing on a Elden Ring Sketchbook project at some point and I'll definitely include these guys
@@MadLuigi thanks man!! I’m DEFINITELY drawing the torch as well. I never noticed the skull until you pointed it out, I always assumed they were crushing up bones to burn, but the skull is so much cooler. Loving your spooky vids this month
"We have no choice but to use the bodies of our comrades-in-arms as kindling!" "Um, Sarge, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there plants around here?"
You habe to dry plant material to make it suitable, assuming there was any plant material large enough to be useful on the layer they are on. And given it seems they were trapped down there I suspect they were already finding alternative sources of food. So what is the problem with adding alternative light sources to that list?
You know something I always found funny? Why doesn't Blaidd just bring a big ladder down into Siofra? There's path from the Ancestor Woods down back to Siofra River that you can descend some ruins without taking a single point of fall damage, meaning all the drops are less than 16m tall. Iji by himself is like what, 5-6m tall? If they just brought a big ladder they'd be able to get into the Ancestor Woods from Siofra, and from there into Nokron.
Is a 'm' here an Elden Ring unit of measure/not a real meter right? Cause no way Blaidd is 5 meters tall? But yeah coulda used a rope or a big ladder lol. Maybe he never found that path lol
@@MadLuigi I think they're real meters, but it's all comparative anyway. We know 16m (regardless of what m is) is the threshold for fall damage. So I can still sorta guesstimate that Iji and the other trolls are like 5m tall.
Thanks for the shoutout, man. Cool analysis, I enjoyed the video. ❤ The idea of the Fallen Hawks becoming bound to the underworld because of lighting the Ghostflame is easily the most interesting part of their lore for me. Reminds me of the story of Persephone, in a way, with the Ghostflame taking the role of the forbidden fruit of Hades. The earthly connotation of Ghostflame, through how it binds the hawks to the underground, becomes more interesting to me when we look at the Deathbirds that stoke Ghostflame in their kilns. We have the Twinbird Kite Shield depicting what seems to be some death and rebirth imagery, and the Deathbird priests also perform rites of death for their distant resurrection. Like a kind of anchor for their earthly existence. The Mausoleum Knights guarding the soulless Demigods also imitate the Deathbirds appearance, and their curse involves binding themselves to the land according to their chestpiece. I'm pretty sure the curse-y stuff you break off the Mausoleum's feet also has a Ghostflame particle effect when you break it. All in all, I'm left to wonder about Ghostflame and its telluric associations.
Yeah happy to and thanks so much! The constricting of them to the underworld does really further emphasize the contrast of the Order and what stands against it. The Deathright Birds can, sometimes, exist above ground w the GF, but maybe thats due to their strength. Maybe the GF cant exist in the light/domain of Erdtree
I would say the Fallen Hawks are most likely a group originating from Stormveil Castle. Godrick has already proven himself one to indulge in forbidden lore, showed in grafting, hosting the face of The Prince of Death, the Godskin prayer book, and his desperation to graft with a Dragon since they were Elden Lords well before Godfrey. I say this shows his willingness to gain power no matter the consequences or the origin. To me the Fallen Hawks are another story of his desperation. Since Ranni and her followers are still looking for the entrance to Nokron while the Fallen Hawks currently there tell me that they don't belong to Ranni's side. If Ranni was so desperate to find the entrance to Nokron for her fate then it would make the most sense that the slaves would try to please her and respond to her as soon as they could. The fact the very first entrance to the subterranean realms we find is in Limgrave, and the fact the entrance to Nokron is also found in Limgrave are all signs to me that the Fallen Hawks were originally sent by Godrick. He's obviously been looking for power for quite some time, whether approved by the Golden Order or not, in order to advance his own hopes of becoming Elden Lord. If Ranni had sent the Fallen Hawks to reclaim her destiny then they would have sent word to her as soon as they discovered Nokron. What slave would want to continue to do such a task long after they found what they were sent to find? The fact she had to send Blaidd to locate it, and even after we have to raid the entirety of Nokron just to find what she's looking for, all point to me as the Fallen Hawks being soldiers/slaves of Godrick.
One thing I'd like to add: Godrick may not be particularly looking to become Elden Lord. In his death monologue, he talks says "one day, we will return, to our home bathed in rays of gold". Since all of his soldiers are EXILE soldiers and BANISHED knights, and because of that ghost looking at the Tower of Return, we can infer that he wants to bring himself and all of his soldiers to Leyndell, from where they had been banished.
Ish - you are missing the fact that the hawk medium shield is the same shape & stats as the eclipse medium shield. You are also missing the implication of the Berserk connection, the way the hawks became slaves was through being sacrificed by their lord.
Do you think that ties them in to being related by the Eclipse? If so we could make more of the Berserk connection, but I thought the whole point of the Eclipse was that it hasnt happened
@@MadLuigi in Berserk, the eclipse is like a seasonal or cyclical thing which marks the transition of an age. I only noticed it because the same thing is true for the eclipse greatshield, except that one is a repainted cookoo knights shield.
@@MadLuigi imo, the eclipse dates back to the first set of political orders & irresolvable political difference (the fancy word is 'structural antagonism'); Night vs Day. Those on team Sun which released its full spectrum light into the world vs those on team Moon which reflects or 'guides' the light which hits it's surface throughout the rest of the galaxy. Eventually that order gets supplanted & absorbed by an order organized around the four seasons. There's some other ones I have a harder time placing. There appears to be a time period where most people are dead and those who survive are dedicated to planting. There's also what appears to be a 10 part order of two hands (likely alloyed), a 12 part order that was much shorter than the other ones or only really hypothetical and a 7 part order (likely sus & 3 finger related).
(from the two underground timeline statues which are all over the place, one is taller than the other, one shows basically the same thing for 20 cycles or something)
An idea I had is that they were prisoners of war of the army of Godefroy who besieged the Royal Capital (which would still be soldiers of Stormveil), as outside Leyndell we can see banners with a strange bird crest on them. Furthermore, one of the Hawks was a giant, and we can see in the Stroy Trailer how giants were part of Godefroys forces. Then after their capture they are turned into slaves and thrown into the depths alongside a few Crucible Knights to search for... something. And what is that something? A forbidden knoife of dubious origin? No! Instead I think they were sent to look for silver tears and their husks, allowing for the Perfumers of ther Capital to concoct more of those sweet uplifting aromatics, which they really needed to maintain their positions as commanders and to hopefully allow the armies of Leyndell to last and win the Shattering (Spoiler Alert, they didnt). Another point in favour of this could be that while they are most prominent at Nokron, there are ashes of Hawks all the way at Nokstella, as well as silver tears who mimic team. Final bit of information could be that it is said that they "once explored the Eternal City", but what Eternal City exactly? This seems to be a problem for a lot of Eternal City descriptions, which mention a singular city even though we know of at least three. I think this is because in the past there used to be a single city, one that was so unique and singular it didnt even need to have a name... but I'll allow you to follow that thread to its logical conclusion yourself. But if thats the case, I do need to mention that from the Nameless Eternal city you can access both the Siofra and Ainsel Rivers, explaining why they would end up in the twinned Eternal Cities and why one of their more prominent locations is the Siofra Aqueduct. Or maybe im just insane. Whatever it is, great video mate, cant wait for more! :DD
Thanks for the kind words and the thought out theory! I always appreciate people's takes on the lore in the comments. With a lot of the lore, it can be hard to say anything concrete, so wildly differing ideas can come from the same evidence/lore descriptions.
Given the new representation of the Outer Gods as japanese kamis, maybe the band of hawks was chosen as a vassals of the Deathbirds Outer God? They "discovered" the ghost flame after all. Furthermore, the mother of the Deathbirds seems to favor the ones that (quoting the blue and red feathered branchswords talismans) "cling so tenaciously to life". And the band of hawks did so, they even burn their comrades to survive the deepths of Nokron. And just in that moment, coincidentally, the ghost flame appears to them. Also, and this is clearly a stretch, the skull of the Deathbirds recalls the skull of the band of the hawks. And the hole, the scar on the deathbirds's skull may be a scorch, a burn caused by a flame, that later become the ghost flame. Pure speculation obviously :D A very inspiring video, great job :)
Thanks so much! And thats definitely a dope note, yeah a lot of this is speculation, but when you base it in real game reference it feels a lot more tangible! They could have such a connection, and it would make their story even more interesting
Wait does this mean Ranni is Griffith in ER she sacrifice her human body for a new form with more power and to seek her goal she sacrifice blidd, iji, etc to reach that goal.
Got comments with Ranni as Griffith, with Miquella as Griffith, eryones Griffith. Tho fr itd be crazy to have the Griffith character be who Blaidd serves throughout the whole game. I think she's too much like Shierke to be the G standin
You know I dont think they were banished to the underground by the Greater Will. In lots of real world mythologies there are people who travel into the Underworld (the Underground)but are told not to do certain things or they will be unable to leave. For example, the goddess Persephone ate pomegranate seeds and became (partially) stuck in the Underworld. Maybe they killed their comrades and burned the body for fuel and that blasphemous act got them stuck in the Underworld.
Ghost Flame torches reminds me of the Dark Souls bonfires and the supposed origin of the word in the Middle English term of bone fire, which were fires fueled with bones and used as a preventative measure against parasites on livestock.
I think it’s worth noting that the only place in the game that has spiritflame arrows besides Nokron is Elphael. Considering Miquella’s numerous parallels with Griffith, I think the answer of who led the Fallen Hawks becomes obvious
He could be. While Millenia takes after their father I suspect Miquella takes after the mother. And I think we all have surmised what a back stabbing betch she is.
They could be slaves of the Stormlord, instead of the Golden Order. Since the Stormlord was defeated by Godfrey, this tells us they were enemies of the Golden Order, and thus, they could be searching for the Fingerslayer's Blade as a weapon against the Golden Order. "Fallen Hawks" could be a way to distinguish them as slaves from "True" Hawks serving the Stormlord as vassals. Specifically I'm thinking they could be criminals enslaved as punishment for their crimes, but this is really just speculation.
Smoughtown had a video on deathbirds that describes a twin bird. Half is the deathbirds, a black half. The other a red bird with flames maybe a Phoenix. Maybe they are the other half
I could see the Fallen Hawks being sent to locate the Blade by Godrick. Paranoid as he is, he wouldn't want a God-slaying weapon like that out of his grasp. Further still, being one of the rune bearers, he could take his place as the true heir of Godfrey by using said blade, unaware of the sad fate that befalls those who use it. Godrick, perhaps then after losing the company, took on the ploy of his ancestor, Godefroy, first of the Grafted, in order to overcome his shortcomings. A Freightened child, he was, vying for the throne and for a power not his to attain. The lord of all that is golden, sought the blackened blade to coerce all under his rule. But hey, that's just a theory.
@@MadLuigi "Do not return without the blade that felled the great Godwyn! Lest you join the grafted as well." Later on "They've yet to return. Either they have all been felled by the guardians of Nokron, or they fear to return empty handed. Perhaps the blade is but a myth."
It'd make more sense for the Golden Order to send slaves down to find and capture the Fingerslayer blade. I mean, If I found out some group of people deep underground found a way to harm my control or impact on the world. I'd definitely have that looked into and taken under my control. Let's get rid of the only chance anyone has at overruling me.
Thats along my train of thought too. Maybe with the failing order, they didnt have enough resources to put much more together for the search party, or didnt want to lose anyone more valuable than slaves
Healing magic plus torn off flesh would mean that you'd potentially have an infinite light source and food in this world. Surely it would be painful but also probably a real possibility.
It's my beleif that Marika was the one who sent the fallen hawks and it was her looking for the fingerslaying blade. Remember that Stormveil was also Godfrey's seat of power as evidenced by Nepheli being his heir. I beleive Marika sent a group of essentially PoW's down to look for "A weapon to slay a God." When they never returned she came up with the idea for the Night of Black Knives to fashion her own from Godwin's corpse (The fingerslaying blade itself says it was made from a corpse). I also beleive that it is through Marika in a roundabout way, probably through the Black Knife Assassins she provided Ranni, that Ranni found out about the fingerslaying blade in the first place. For some reason Marika failed to create one from Godwin's corpse, though (potentially because she still had the rune of death sealed?) and it is because of that she shatters the Elden Ring in desperation to be free of The Greater Will/The Elden Beast/w.e.
I’ll be really surprised if a form of these guys in their former glory doesn’t show up in the DLC. They were obviously coerced by Miquella to search for something. They remind me of the exiles and the banished knights, but they don’t use storm ashes of war? Even Godrick uses them. Maybe there’s two birds? One who utilizes ghost flame and the other that uses the storm.
I just went thru nokron. Seeing these guys made me search your channel for a lore vid and I was happy to see you had one. I immediately thought before I got any of their drops they had been experimented on because of the head bolt wound things (I stealthed up behind a searching one and moved the camera to get a good look at their model because I thought they were so creepy). After watching this video Im imagining Godrick sent them down there. What they were searching for - whatever the Nox had that allowed them to craft life with the silver tears. Godrick would want that for his fucked up grafting experiments. After all, if he knew that the ancient people there could actually make life - he would want to get his (many) hands on it. And they had armor bolted on their bodies by godrick. Hence the weird head wounds.
I support the theory that they are sent by Miquella in search of Dewkissed Herba, to investigate its properties in search of a definitive cure for malenia; Well, this material is one of the ingredients of the neutralizing boluses, they can only be found along the Siofra River and the Eternal Cities and precisely the members of the Alcon Caoido are the only mob that drops that plant when killed. And following Miyazaki's patterns with his inspiration from Miura's work, a lot has been said about how the Fallen Hawks are a reference to the Berzerk Hawk Gang and that Miquella is based on Griffiths, so it fits with the idea of one. condemning others. And even if the Herb was not the reason, the idea of replicating what happens in the Black Swordsman manga can still be very good.
Another thing I would like to comment on is that based on where the inverted hawk shield ends up being obtained, which is at the bottom of the siofra river near a small abandoned campaign, and contrasting with the location of the hawk band; It seems to me that they came from below and when they saw the eternal cities, they went up. But where ?
Maybe the fallen hawk has to do with the twin bird? Like these guys worshiped it and after Godfrey killed it, Marika put them to work sort of like what she did with the fire giant.
I wonder if after Marika defeated the lord of storm that the moniker fallen hawks was given to the soldiers of storm hill castle likely to make fun of them, so they might’ve been the golden order slaves and Marika knew of the finger slayer blade and wanted it. Would that explain why they were abandoned so easily?
i was actually planning on a series, with each video titled "elden ring's creepiest enemies - lore of the X," so first one was these guys, next could be fingercreeper or RR. and ive already done cemetery shades! i was actually unsure of who to do the next vid on. Might be RR!
I’m betting they served Commander Nial/O Neil/Miquella for the Haligtree, or they served Godrick the Grafted. Godwyn is possible too due to death connection. Why was Godwyn hunted down in the eternal city after all? I’m betting they originally served Stormveil for money when it was wealthy until the change of hands. By this point the eternal cities were banished by Marika and their master sent them down to find the cities and their secret knowledge to fight the greater will, they found the ghost flame. I favor Haligtree as the senders. O’Neil/Nial serve the Haligtree and left storm veil with their mercenaries to the frontier near Haligtree. I recommend reading item descriptions for Winged Scythe, Eclipse Shotel, Finger Slayer Blade, Golden Epitaph, ancestral horn axe, and listen to ghost at Castle Sol. One last thing: there’s a massive death root thing going on under Stormveil, don’t think that’s a coincidence and I’m betting exiled soldiers made up the company of the hawk. There’s a connection there.
Maybe it's a bit of both? Maybe the fallen hawks were conscripted by the Golden Order after the storm ruler's defeat, and were then used by Radagon to search for the rumored fingerslayer blade (the carians may have seen the trolls as equals, but radagon was not a carian). That would also explain how ranni learned about the blade's existence, and why iji says "we" in reference to who sent the expeditions
Maybe Godfrey sent the Fallen Hawks there to find the Finger Slayer Blade to aid Marika's plot to betray the Golden Order. Or perhaps they were sent as last ditch effort of the Storm Lord to defeat Godfrey and the forces of the Golden Order before the castle fell.
I think it's worth mentioning that there are more fallen hawks inside the actual Aqueduct before the Gargoyle Duo and theyre all very close to two Crucible Knights and also they even fight along them. I don't know what this implies in the big picture but it seems like the crucible knights have some connection to them. Maybe they were really slaves of Stormveil after Godfrey took over it, despite not having even a single line that states this explicitly. Now, besides that I have absolutely no idea what the fuck the Aqueduct was really used for and who built it as well as what the fuck happened with it, cause, clearly something very big destroyed a large part of it. Under the aqueduct there is a Dragonkin Soldier boss so that may be the cause but. What did they fall off from? Why were them above the aqueduct? Maybe they were created inside the Aqueduct and it couldnt hold its weight but that's very unlikely cause the whole (insanely large) structure is like top tier architecture design and engineering. Anyway there are still so many mysteries and I'm glad someone went that deep in the fallen hawks cause they really offer a very interesting perspective for understanding the lore and the reasons for the enemy placement and the world where they stand now.
I think the holes on their head are remnants of briars. The inverted hawk heater shield says they were slaves, so maybe the briars of sin were laid upon them just like the briar sorcerers in the fire monk sect. At least, that's how I see it. In fact, maybe the inverted hawk is more symbolic than I originally thought. Since shields featuring birds in this game are representative of life or freedom(mostly) maybe the inverted hawk is representative of their damnation to the underground. Maybe one day I will complete Nepheli's questline. But for now, Gostoc will continue to be put under the blade.
I'm not sure I buy the Golden Order sending them to find the Fingerslayer Blade. If there's a super-powerful artifact capable of killing you, the last thing you would want is for one of your own slaves to acquire it. You send your MOST LOYAL servants for that mission, not somebody who hates you.
my biggest problem with the idea the golden order sent the fallen hawks is why the golden order, with all resources they had at their disposal, would send nothing but a single slave company after such a massive threat to their hegemony and not follow up at all when they do not return. marika would surely prioritize acquiring the fingerslayer blade more than that. ranni, similarly, wouldn't need to find nokron if she'd already sent the hawks there. i think their master needs to a. have acquiring the fingerslayer blade as a noncritical goal and/or b. no longer be active to direct expeditions. the most fitting candidates i think would be rykard or godefroy. rykard has the strongest motive and would be busy afterwards being eaten by a snake but godefroy would make the most sense with the hawks' stormveil connection and his failed coup on leyndell & imprisonment fit the criteria decently well. i personally lean a bit towards rykard but that's mostly because i think the cooperation between rykard & ranni (e.g. the blasphemous claw) is very interesting so i enjoy the idea of rykard sending the hawks to acquire the blade for his sister before he was devoured. but there's not much hard evidence either way
a potential hybrid of these ideas i suppose could be that the fallen hawks were formerly soldiers of godefroy that made their way into rykard's hands after the coup failed. somewhat believable given his role as praetor.
I agree you have to get pretty speculative-y especially when going out to people beyond Stormveil and Caria directly. Maybe even the Storm Lord simply had some slaves and sent them down their just to search other territories?
@@MadLuigi those small lighting balls in siofra river and consacrated snow fields. The one that shoot lighting at you if you get close. This is probably the most misterious enemy. Edit Oh sorry I only now noticed the typo on my part
Damn bro i thought your pfp was a fallout 4 character or something but now I realise there's a chef hat in Elden Ring. I think i have it in my first characters inventory now that I think about it. (Yes im fairly new to the channel, feel free to mock me for it)
Elden Ring better have multiple dlcs, 1 of them could follow these poor lads. Who wants dlcs that also follow the Godskins and Crucible Knights as well?
@@MadLuigi Crazy, I was just wondering yesterday if they could drop their hat, now today I see your video. Which is also a really neat video btw, I was just enthralled by the hat
@@blizzardgaming7070 Astute response. I remember him mentioning he was in league with unsavory, boorish deserters or soldiers who were now masterless. Could actually very well be the Hawks. If not, it might be the random bandits in the cave with him.
@@ThommyofThenn the bandits are specifically named as deserters by the armour they drop, either ex cuckoo or Godrick from the grey/white cloth or possibly Rykard’s as that uniform is never seen in game.
To me it seems the shattering of the elden ring is symbolic to the whole universe splitting in two light and dark. Almost as the cycle of death and life split into two segments each seeking the other one to become complete. The dead seek to live and the living seek to ascend into the heavens.
