The Primeval Sorcerers utterly destroyed their minds and bodies just so you could spam Comet Azur against Malenia. Song used: Cavern - The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess OST
Another detail that draws a fairly direct connection between Azur and Lusat, and the Karolos and Olivinus crowns are the actual glintstones seen on both crowns. While, for some reason, the glintstones on the Karolos crown are white for the NPCs, they're the same deep green as Azur's on the player version, and the same shape as well. Similarly, there are round, blue glintstones on the Olivinus crown, much like the giant blue glintstone that has overtaken Lusat's head. I've seen some people speculate that they were the Twinsages, but it seems much less likely, all things considered.
Also the only other one with green is sellens and I can't tell if her crown is based on her or if that female founder was some unknown sorcerer and sellen is just the only who matched her ability
Also seems notable that in Sellen's Graven School transformation, you see coloured gemstones of both Azul and Lusat's flavours accross the ball.. I don't remember offhandedly if this is the same for normal Graven Schools, but it could further imply the two are in there
In the Tribunal in Raya Lucaria, paintings of Lusat, Azur, the Twinsages and of Rennala can be seen on the walls. So the Twinsages weren't Lusat and Azur.
Azur and Lusat: turn into a barely living thing with crystals replacing their brains. Sellen: "This primeval current sounds like a great thing to study."
Brainrocks are when your grey matter condenses, shortening the distance between your neurons and therefore allowing them to fire faster - a lot faster. This typically happens when you smoke a ton of weed. Brainrocks can manifest in many ways. Someone who's rocked up wont necessarily feel the same effects every time. Their cognitive abilities may be boosted one time, and their strength and physical prowess the next. Brainrocks have also been known to have adverse effects on weaker beings. Such is the nature of getting smoked and getting brainrocks.
Alberich, whose head was replaced with red glintstone, seemed to be in a better state when he invades us. You have to alter his helm, which removes the hat, to see his skull from the top
I love their animations when they give you the spell. The way Lusat and Azur's hands just sort of creak to hand you the sorcery. Like they've been petrified.
I honestly like the idea that they’re so crystallized in the head, that it prevents them from properly utilizing their sorcery. It’s kinda like something out of HP Lovecraft where they reach a new plain of existence but their bodies are nothing more but a empty husk.😺
I bet these two are so far up the skill tree, they are existing in a different plane of being. Considering that Selena projected herself to a different location, while being tortured, i think these two probably live a decent life someplace else and only come back for a brief moment, when you inconvenience them.
I concur. Since Sellen is capable of transposing her soul into a glintstone, it can be assumed that these old masters have gone a step further, and become one with the current itself.
It follows the color out of space theme, if you look into that which is not meant to be seen... It takes you. Or, think of it like a type of radiation. Magic exists in a primeval, incredibly powerful source. This is on a scope and breadth far beyond mortal comprehension to boot. So the mortal mages looked into the unseeable and unknowable, making it seen and known, and it corrupted them from the *inside out*. They got irradiated by reaching their grubby consciousnesses far beyond their mortal ken. And just like this radiation can spread Flintstone from Flintstone, astel's from a comet, it converts them for their hubris. This is why Sellen is determined- her master's pioneered the school, and paved the way for what NOT to do. Though I do believe it is possible they had had primal glintstone hearts as well and we're the catalyst for Sellen's transformation. Sort of the sacrifice for the next step/generation.
@@TreyWreckz primeval current is probably the souce of "Cosmic life" while the ancient Erdtree/Crucible is the source of all "terrestial life". Even Sellen hints at that.
Brainrocks are when your grey matter condenses, shortening the distance between your neurons and therefore allowing them to fire faster - a lot faster. This typically happens when you smoke a ton of weed. Brainrocks can manifest in many ways. Someone who's rocked up wont necessarily feel the same effects every time. Their cognitive abilities may be boosted one time, and their strength and physical prowess the next. Brainrocks have also been known to have adverse effects on weaker beings. Such is the nature of getting smoked and getting brainrocks.
Look into alberich, because his altered hat shows red crystals on it, could he have also been becoming a primeval sorcerer? but instead of gazing at the primeval current he gazed at the blood star because he had red glintstones on him. His set does describe him as an aloof yet heretical sorcerer
Ooooh shit good catch dude! I never made the connection from alberich to the primeval sorcerers, but I think you're right that something very similar was going on with Alberich.
Yeah, I noticed that as well, it seems like he too has the same sort of crystals seemingly eating away at his head like with Azur and Lusat, although they’re not nearly as advanced in their size and appear to only be in the early stages of growth. My theory is that the end fate of any sorcerer is to become infatuated and eventually consumed by crystals no matter what school of sorcery they study, which seems to be a running trend throughout both souls games and fantasy in general, where the brilliant scholar is eventually driven to insanity and death due to their own desire to continue the study of magic past their own human limitations
It's a different kind of power. That's separate I believe from the torrential current of magic the other two sorcerer's and Selen were practicing. I'm sure of it! Except that it's Elden Ring and anything's possible
i dont think he was studying the primeval current but since it’s both sorcery they do have some things in common. i think it’s like the stone heads the academy sorcerers wear, they all have glintstone on their head (probably to expand your mind somehow). he was also blindfolded like the thorn sorcerers you often see with the fire monks who also saw the blood star. i think it may be connected to hexes wich no longer exist where you use your own blood as a replacement for glintstone
@@matheuscruz8574 idk how to feel ab it because that was her goal in the end and im pretty sure graven masses are premature stars or something like that so i think its what she wanted to occur
What a harrowing experience when you first come upon these lads. The slightest animation when you gain their spell, character design off the charts. Elden ring provides so many memorable subtle moments
I didn't really think too much about Azur when I first met him. There's so much stuff in the game, that some details are bound to go unnoticed. But in my sorcerer playthrough I took another deep look at him.
Azur, Lusat, Goldmask: I'm literally a motionless mute fucking inanimate object Fromsoft shaft strokers: omg 20/10 design deep lore implications you just don't get it it's hidden you gotta read the fine print
I like how Sellen is still able to teach spells after her transformation, she even asks for runes for it, welp I guess people still have to pay taxes in the abyss
I love how Selene's questline has so many red flags and ominous foreshadowing. Between her telling you why she was expelled and seeing the state of the two sorcerers you get a clear picture that even if she succeeds her quest wont end well.
@@rustyjones7908 The Queen of Chainhurst given she not only outlasted the church, but part of her questline involves resurrecting her after Alfred crushes her. Bogart if you kill Dung Eater. Zoraya if you don't kill her or give her the memory loss potion, since after Rykards death she finds new meaning because you spared her. Siegward inDS3 since his goal was to give Yhorm a mercy killing in order to fulfill the promise and he does that. Nepheli, Ranni and few others in Elden end up surprisingly well if not getting everything they wanted without a catch.
@@Tokumastu1 I mean the catch for Ranni was plunging the world in absolute chaos leading up to her ending. The knight of the black knives was her doing and the direct catalyst for the lands between going to shit
I interpreted that Karolos and Olivinus were the first "students" of Azur and Lusat respectively, as the Karolos crown states "The Karolos Conspectus is the oldest of the academy's lineages of study, begat by the sorcerer Azur. Scholars who follow in his footsteps pursue the mysteries of comets", and Olivinus's crown says the same thing. Also, I find it intriguing that Rennala can cast Comet Azur, as that would mean Azur imparted the sorcery to her somehow.
Don't you technically fight ranni in phase 2, meaning ranni is the one who knows how to use comet azur, especially considering she's all about space and stars and the moon
@@abnon-tha3088 ...They then proceeded to befriend some local demi-humans with a promise of teaching them some basic sorceries (to become "strong like Maggie"). The first communication attempts came at the cost of poor Philippe, but nobody mourned for long -- he was a Hierodas anyway.
The description of the two sorcery-boosting talismans state: "The primeval current is a forbidden tradition of glintstone sorcery. To those who cleave to its teachings, the act of collecting sorcerers to fashion them into the seeds of stars is but another path of scientific inquiry." That phrase at the end, "collecting sorcerers to fashion them into the seeds of stars" implies that it was a technique that literally fuses sorcerers together in an attempt to ascend to some kind of higher being. Sellen wants to reach the Primeval Current and they have a technique designed to do so already developed, all she needs is bodies for material and what better materials than the two most powerful sorcerers who already reached the current? As for all the other faces that make up the ball, let's just say there's a reason Sellen also wanted to take over as headmaster at the academy. Plenty of access to any amount of...bodily materials she might need.
@@reperfan4 Hubris. Thats the word. Sellen thought she was smart/powerful enough to use the supposed two most powerful sorcerers in the game for her daisy-chain crystal computer. She found out, apparently, she had a lot more to learn.
Part of why I find Lusat and Azur fascinating is that, given the connections between sorcery, stars, and glintstone, both of them can truly be said to have achieved Galaxy Brain status.
So I’m not sure if you’ve covered this already but in caelid, There are massive skeletons jutting out of the scarlet rot. One can be seen when beside the massive warrior far and the other in sellia
The part of this game that is so interesting to me is how most of the NPCs we see in the game were normal looking humans at some point. It's so bizarre how normal looking humans (tarnished) and all these crazy looking half human/ half whatever the heck else creatures exist simultaneously.
Well, the people remaining in the Lands Between are what's left after about a century of war that really only slowed down to a simmer because nobody has any reserves left and in which all parties involved were slinging around eldritch magics, alien plagues and the literal essence of madness...
@@GaldirEonai for sure but what is confusing/ fascinating to me is that some of the creatures are obviously so next level crazy looking that it's close to nonsensical for them to ever possibly be "human looking." Like I get radahn is a god but he's the only one that's anything close to 20 feet tall like he is. How the hell does radagon and renalla make that? We know the scarlet rot didn't warp him stature wise because of the cinematic. I just wish the details of how creatures came to be was a little bit more in depth but that's basically lore problem one of fifty lol
@@erich1380 from soft typically uses size in relation to how powerful a character is. Its just a design choice but you could probably, lore wise, argue that it was the physical effects his rune had on him over time that caused him to grow to that stature
@@chiaotzu2361 do they though? I can think of dozens of fromsoft bosses that are one of the smallest in the game yet are one of the most powerful. Now if you mean to say imposing and aiming to show you the significance of the character then yes I totally agree
Tarnished people look normal because they are not original live in The Land Between. Their ancestors left the land following Godfrey when they lost the grace. They therefore do not affected by whatever happen in during the Shattering. I think the Shattering altered/mutated/corrupted living things TLB, especially the bears. Even normal soldiers/people of TLB look ghoulish.
I think it's worth mentioning that Sellen is a crystal herself. As part of her questline you transplant her from her original imprisoned body(or maybe she snatched that one as well) into one of Seluvis' s mindless puppets. Perhaps Azure and Lusat are just what happens if that core crystal is allowed to grow long enough to overtake the meat. In fact, Crystalians are described as "close to the ideals of the primeval current". It feeds into my theory that glintstone is a form of crystallized soul, or something like soul amber. All mined glintstone seems to have come to The Lands Between with meteors, perhaps remnants of dead worlds. Maybe even worlds untainted by Outer God influence. Which is part of my fringe belief that runes are souls and that's why originally the Golden Order perceived sorcerers as a threat, seemingly sidestepping the god harvest. And maybe the Carian-Golden alliance was predicated on making Primeval Current research illegal.
i think the graven-mass/star-seed is like the pot people but instead of bodies its filled with glint-stones, its like grafting but for brain power, i think they hope that with enough brain power the star seed will evolve into a full grown star like the elden beast
@@RikyRoxas That seems unnecessarily complex. I don't think there are any indications that Sellia isn't just the name of the region, although Sellen may be from there. But more importantly, Jerren's dialogue refers to her as Sellen and indicates that she committed her crimes under that name and her body swapping abilities(and probably the ability to project her image) were not a known concern to witch-hunters when she was imprisoned.
Maybe considering they studied the early sorcery that came from the stars, they attempted to evolve in a way similar to the Onix Lords of the Fallen Star Beasts Obviously it wasn't successful, but they were able to become "pure" glintstone beings, even Lusat's helm looks a bit like the Astel's eye
The weird thing is, none of the meteors we see contain Glintstone. None of the enemies which come from stars, Falling Star Beasts and Astels, use Glintstone attacks, they use gravity magic. So is Glintstone really the study of the stars? Or is this just a story the sorcerer's have been telling themselves?
Smoughtown made a very good lore video on the primeval current and Sellen. Basically primeval sorcerers are obsessed with becoming star beings. That’s why Sellen turns into one of those things at the end of her questline, they are failed experiments by her and other primeval sorcerers, attempts to access the primeval current and create a star.
I can't help but wonder if harnessing the more "primal" magics always has a profound effect on the body. Primevil Current magic, Dragon spells, Madness, always transform the user in some way as an end result. The only seeming exception is Erdtree incantations, but that's how you get Elden Lords, so?
You think they all lead to some sort of adverse effects? Taking it even further and using bloodborne as a precident, maybe eventually they become what they study? Dragon spells eventually create dragons, primal spells eventually turn them into glintstone, which we could potentially see as being THE true form of sorcery right?
It seems to me that this is more a failed, or maybe incomplete, transformation, like the Magma Wyrms. They are transforming into glintstone, but rather than transforming into the likes of the Crystalians, they're just petrifying. Maybe it's because the Golden Order is still active that the Erdtree incantations don't have such an effect on the body, tough I'd bet that Crucible incantations do, and I doubt Goldmask was like that originally. The Frenzied Flame incantations are like that for everyone, though. There isn't any transformation for the Frenzied, just madness and death.
@@watchfulwanderer6443 One could argue that the madness IS the transformation, though. We already know from Yura that consuming dragon hearts, the only way to learn Dragon spells, eventually turns you into one. Madness draws you to the Three Fingers, permanently scarring your body, or giving yourself unto Shabriri. Destined Death, another primordial force, can cause these transformations too - look at Godwyn. He was fundamentally transformed by it as well.
@@metuos.3651 First off, Destined Death wasn't the sole cause of Godwyn's transformation, since the other soulless demigods aren't growing deathroot. He's buried at the base of the Erdtree, near both the roots of the Erdtree and the Crucible. Destined Death doesn't normally transform beings, Godwyn is an anomaly, and more Crucible than Destined Death anyways. The madness of the Frenzied Flame is different. The Primeval Sorcerers, the dragon-hearted, the Dragonkin Soldiers, etc, all tried transforming to reach greater heights of power/knowledge/whatever, and the Crucible's transformations are blessings from it. The madness caused by using a lot of Frenzyflame spells isn't an attempt at ascension or a blessing, they are the Frenzied Flame trying to destroy everything it can touch. It isn't a transformation because you aren't really transforming, just going insane. The Lordship of Frenzied Flame is a separate thing, just like Elden Lordship is a separate process from using Erdtree magic.
I would love a video explaining the Graven-Schools. I was shocked when I came across the one in the hidden area of that tower in Caelid. Definitely one of the most unique enemy designs in the game.
its dragon communion for sorcerers, basically the face ball is a star seed the cocoon version of the malformed stars that will eventually hatch into one
I would love to see them as DLC bosses like the Godskin duo. The sorcerer bosses have been my favorite since it makes counterspelling with Eternal Darkness so fucking cool on full int builds.
Or maybe finding them battling each other in a big legacy dungeon-like arena, where you need to survive the tidal wave of spells, having to choose which one to kill first, then the boss fight with the other one starts
You could probably find equally notable details in other fictional worlds in video games, but the worlds are lot more generic and predictable so it's not nearly as interesting
FromSoft games are an interesting mix of "Stuff that doesn't make sense until you assemble and analyze the scraps of information available to you" and "Stuff that doesn't make sense because the final stage of development was obviously rushed". Both of those make interesting content for someone able to dive deep into the inner workings of the games.
Sellen is one of the most well written characters in the game imo and I really wish she had a mending rune attached to her quest. Restoring the primeval current would have probably made for an interesting ending.
And the weirdest part: It just ends. So abruptly, too. I think there has to be an expansion or an update to her story. It's linked to Ranni's but is just as important, if not more. The Primeval Current is so powerful, giving you the most powerful spell in the entire game is just part of its power. It must have an ending attached to it one day. Becoming a glintstone god, with the bitterness of your crown and your own magic eating you alive; now that, would be a good ending.
@@AB-jt4rs Are they not related? Surely the rotations of the stars and the primeval current have some relation. Sellen said herself glintstone sorcery is the study of the stars. I thought sellens goal was just restoring the academy to studying the stars and the current.
Personally, I don't think they lost their minds necessarily but more had their wills broken by what they saw and that they couldn't share it with anyone in their current state. "When Azur glimpsed into the primeval current, he saw darkness. He was left both bewitched and fearful of the abyss." - Comet Azur "When Lusat glimpsed into the primeval current, he beheld the final moments of a great star cluster, and upon seeing it, he too was broken." - Stars of Ruin I believe that Azur and Lusat didn't lose their minds by the time we found them, rather I believe they had lost all hope because they couldn't share their discoveries. We don't know how much they actually saw outside of their signature spells but they both were deeply changed by what they saw then - perhaps the astrologer who discovered the first sorcery had a similar reaction but was able to share those findings with others. I say this mostly because of what they both do when we go up to them: they give us their primeval spell. I don't imagine they just wrote it down and we happened to see it on their lap or in their hands - but Azur actually turns his hand to give it to us (can't remember with Lusat, I was staring at that head). They probably were either dying or turning into a Crystallian (I refuse to check the spelling on that, I hate those things) so I wouldn't be surprised if they thought there was no chance to pass on what they saw to others so the study could continue. That's the end of my weird theory, maybe next time I'll have something else to mention
I don't think that both Lusat and Azur didn't share the information to anyone. Radahn later learned the threat of the stars against Sellia so he stopped the stars' movement himself. I think they lost the will to live is because they realize they were so insignificant in the grand scale of the cosmos, that even the stars that they studied all of their lives dies just like everyone else.
@@silenthero2795 Reminds me of that device from the hitch hikers guide to the galaxy series. It was seen as a sort of defacto-execution device as it made you able to comprehend had large the universe truly was and then showed you exactly how actually small and unimportant you were in the grand scheme of things. Everyone except one exception would be left basically comatose from depression over the realization.
@@silenthero2795 I don't think Radahn had any contact with them after they were kicked out. Sorcerers are descended from astrologers so that knowledge was probably passed down from then - and considering the Seluvis' set description, it probably was still studied to a degree. Radahn probably learned from the academy about the stars and whatever the threat specifically was (I just don't know it off top my head). I don't doubt they lost their will to live though, either because of a sort of lovecraftian realization about their world or that they were also being turned into glintstone - neither sounds good for your mental health but they still had their minds, enough to show us their primeval spell before either dying or just going dormant
@@rwberger6 That would be pretty great, to be perfectly honest. I revel in how... *tiny* I am. It's truly beautiful! I can be at peace knowing that the world goes on beyond me. I imagine that would be downright dangerous for more egotistical people, however.
Side note, I love the petty " I refuse to see if I spelled Crystalarian right because I hate them" attitude. Reminds me of how I refuse to call Margaritta the Fel by his actual name and just keep using vaguely similar words.
It's interesting that Hex sorcery turns sacrificial blood into Red Glintstone, while other paths of sorcery are the green & blue that transform the sorcerer's own life essence and essentially their soul into Glintstone. Rarer still is the amber colour of stars like the shard Seluvis has you obtain and the egg Rennala is holding. I've always found it interesting that, like the Mass Graven-School, Astel is formed of shards of other stars with even a few of the rare amber shards being present on his body. Given that he looks so unlike the Fallingstar Beasts, and the eye that replaced Astel's brain and peers out through his cracked skull looks like the Primal Glintstone in Azur's head, I wonder if, back when they could be fought, if there were more plans to detail the Graven-Schools and artificial stars, as they seem to be a key element of Astel. Lastly, their unused attack animations look like the Sorcery of the Crozier weapon skill from the Watchdog's Staff. Of all the weapon skills, it's the one I've found most unexpected as the links to Erdtree burial guardians and sorcery aren't very significantly emphasized. It would make sense if some elements of that were initially meant to be explored with Lusat & Azur, and how the crystals are used to control the Imps, Watchdogs, & Golems, and why the Crystal Darts are able to short circuit them.
in the early trailer primeval current sorceries has a dark theme similar to the gravity/void that star fallen beasts use, gravity seems like a type of monster for the purpose of damage and certain weapons so i think the malformed stars found deep on the nameless eternal city are what a hatched star seed looks like
Azur's subtle hand motion before going utterly still gave me CHILLS. It was like watching the last breath of a dying man being used to whisper his final secret, and secure his legacy.
The theme of staring into the abyss and the abyss stares back at you has always peaked my interest, ever since Bloodborne's Insight and frenzy. Shows the fragile foundation humanity has been built upon. No matter how much you pack, how big of a breakthrough you create, there's always this lingering Abyss that will put you back in check and make you understand that there are higher things that cannot and must not be fathomed. Just best to be left well alone. "In much Wisdom, is much Grief. And He that increaseth Knowledge, increaseth Sorrow."
Meh, just shows a lack of ambition and wisdom. Everything can be understood and everything should. This doesn't mean we should jump in with our dick first of course, but if it can be studied it should be.
It might actually be “peaked”, if he attempted to perform said action. It’s actually possible to do such a thing but to do so makes it like the quote states, and your mind is undoubtedly going to take permanent damage
I don't think that's what Nietzche was saying when he was talking about the abyss. There have been so many misinterpretations of his works in the modern day. Nietzche did not believe in anything "higher" at all or that there was anything to put us into check. He very specifically stated that he distrusted all systems of heirarchy and that nihilism/will to power should be pursued vehemently. You also put a bible quote at the end there. Pick a lane lol. The art world has taken all of this philosophy and religion, mashed it together in a big bowl and now we have so many contradictory ideas in conjunction that end up meaning nothing because they have been moved into the realm of subjective interpretation.
I think it feels a bit poorly put together and kind of lost along the way in development. Sellen becoming a graven mass that's just pushed to the side seems like some major parts are missing. I think it's bordering on cut content. I still love what they're going for, but it feels a bit like some of dark souls 2 quests that have huge chunks missing and end up just as strange fetch quests.
Sellen's questline seems to me like a play on transhumanism. The replacement of their bodies with anorganic material, as well as the merging of mind into one entity, may seem like a tragic fate to some, though it is probably exactly what Azur, Lusat and Sellen wanted to achieve.
I'm not sure about Sellen, her state seems more like a failure state to me. She seems like she's in pain and she's no longer able to lead the Academy. Also, there are other enemies in the game that look like what she turns into, the Schools of Graven Mages, and you'd expect this state to be rare if it was an example of a success. The Graven-School Talisman's wording even seems to imply this is something typically done to OTHER mages, basically using them as test subjects, not to oneself. Azur and Lusat may be happy with what they turned into, given that they don't seem like they're in pain and more like they've transcended mortality, but I doubt Sellen is. It feels like she overreached, probably by trying to merge with Azur and Lusat. I could be wrong though, maybe this is what she wanted to become, and maybe she isn't even in pain.
@@platinumdragon3007 I think it was mentioned somewhere that being turned into the spheres of heads was a form of punishment that was enacted onto a mage. If that's true, Renalla probably did it to her when she tried to oust her lol
@@SuppositionalBox this is objectively wrong since she only turns if you tell her where lusat is, this was a intentional, deliberate and possibly successful attempt at becoming a star seed, the only question is whether it will hatch into a star
Another great video! The sorcery stuff in this game remains so thematically incredible even if the various spells in execution can get a bit outclassed by the variety of faith options at times.
Given this information, I can imagine a questline that was cut in development where another NPC who followed the two would ask us to kill them since that's no way to live, or maybe their physical forms were the last thing keeping them from merging with the Primeval Current. Something along those lines
two things of note with these guys, the first is that both there crowns state "removed from his body, it is all but dead" implying there crystal brains are somehow still alive(if only barely), the second is that the concept of there skull bursting open with glintstone inside replacing the brain resembles Astel who has a very human looking skull for a face, which is cracked open revealing what appears to be a crystaline eye inside, which Lusats crown also resembles a giant crystal eye, perhaps at one point they were connected but the idea was abandoned? or perhaps even that they were intended to be one in the same, with the moveset we see here being phase 1(almost certainly a deacons of the deep scenario where the swarm of ads are more threatening then the main boss) and Astel originally being phase 2
It's an interesting idea for sure, when I encountered Astel I was like "damn that looks like the great ones wisdom item from BB" so it would've been cool if Astel is the result of forbidden research. I was actually running with this as my head canon for a minute, then I realized his name is "natural born of the void" lol. With that in mind I like the implication that the inhabitants of the void are connected to bloodborne
@@jaydee3392 its still possible notably the description refers to the head piece as an "it" rather then "he" meaning whatever it is despite being there crystalized brains it is NOT the primeval sorcerers, perhaps they are parasites and thus astel is simply the mature version?
@@seelcudoom1 the sorcerer's is in a primal glintstone and these stones have veins almost like a fetus so its possible that is what happens when it eventually outgrows the body
Would be nice if the 2 of the very specialized spells each of them gives, are designed to end their miserable torment one may call life. and those where the only things in game to be able damage them. Thus the fact they give you their spell away so easily would be cry for help.
This is an example of a questline that seems fully fleshed-out from a lore perspective, without any huge chunks of important content missing from it. The player is given enough information to form coherent theories on their own. There's some criticism for how obscure some of the steps are, in a way that nobody would guess without a guide. And Sellen herself does somewhat fall victim to the same "offscreen death" problem that plagues most other questlines. But at least in her case, we can reasonably guess that her transformation was the result of meddling with the Primeval Current.
I'm constantly in awe of the implications of sorcery in this world, with the threat of the Graven Schools, Azur, Lusat, and people slowly turning into rocks, glintstones, as if the study of sorcery itself is a process of glintstoneification, it's truly fascinating
Funny part is when Sellen thanks you for helping her out and says Rennala is gone for good, but the moment you rest at the Grace Rennala is there again and so is the giant ball thing.
@@nightscout9979 Sellen: "My apprentice, rest assured the false queen is gone for good, pay no mind to the conspicuously queen sized book shelf behind me!"
Dunno if the general sentiment has changed since, but I remember people getting PISSED at Sellen's ending, because they wanted a happy ending for her. They were saying things like, "C'mon From Soft, just give us one happy quest line!" I recall thinking it was an odd reaction to specifically Sellen. She is not a good person, even if she is genuine with her intentions. Her studies were heretical largely because she sacrificed many. I like her, because she just wants to understand things. But she also deserved her fate 🤷 (Plus, we do get a few happy endings in From Soft games. Solaire gets past his depression and helps the player out for the final boss fight, possibly linking the flame himself in his own world 🙂)
Absolutely love the designs on these dudes. The academy sorcerers can fuck right off with their bs attacks, but these dudes, they're cool. I use their armor in a battlemage build.
Well, that was beautiful. Honestly, I think I've come to enjoy your videos more than the actual game; you find a sort of majesty and elegance in the story/lore that I just can't find on my own anymore. Thanks for that.
when you realize the soul of the sorcerer is on the primal glintstone so they can just change bodies if they wanted to, its intentional they are trying to learn how to mimic stars like the elden beast, its the dragon communion but for sorcerers and I guess it has similar levels of success, i prefer the magma wyrm over the star seed graven mass but its implied they will hatch so who knows? maybe it will turn out better in the end
Another amazing video thank you zullie! I almost thought you used the song Saku by Susumu Yokota for a hot minute!!! Keep up the brilliant videos we all love you
Yeah coming across the body of Lusat in that cave is certainly creepy. It does make me wonder about the implications of all the Glintstone stuff could be. Those Graven-school things creep my out too, and I had no idea Sellen could become a part of one. Is that where she goes if you complete her questline and side with her? I feel like I must go find her now if that is the case...
Glintstone reminds me heavily of Red Lyrium from the *Dragon Age* game series. The short explanation is that a magical blue crystal called Lyrium can enhance magical abilities and mages (and certain warriors using supernatural powers) utilize it in various forms. It is dangerous to use and long term consumption can have hazardous effects. There is an evil/corrupted version of this called Red Lyrium that is similar to normal Lyrium yet it is incredibly more powerful and easier to use. However it literally consumes its users, growing throughout their bodies and eventually turning them into rampaging crystal monsters. This Red Lyrium It similarly grows across the land, causing massive crystal formations and infecting wildlife as well as people. Sound familiar? Glintstone is said by Sellen to be “amber of the stars”. Considering creatures like Astel and the Falling Star Beasts are called “stars” I imagine that meaning that glintstone is a byproduct of beings outside the Lands Between. Lyrium in Dragon Age also was a byproduct produced by superior beings, which adds yet another link in the chain.
I used to find the stone heads a bit laughable and of goofy design, but digging into the lore of the academy it's just astoundingly interesting and I love it.
There seems to be a recurring theme in FromSoft's works about the dangers of power and not to get greedy with it. But specifically in Elden Ring - Many incantations derive power from outer gods who can and will take you over for their own ends. (Think Fell God, Frenzied Flame, Formless Mother.) Finding the primeval current does awful things like what happened to Sellen, Azur and Lusat. Apparently consuming even one dragon heart will doom you to becoming a Wyrm. Rykard basically got taken over by the God Devouring Serpent. Radahn wound up fighting the greatest warrior in the Lands Between and getting consumed by Scarlet Rot as a consequence. Marika lost her kingdom via her male essence. Ranni has to undertake a 1000 year journey to achieve her goals.
Imagine standing in that tiny prison cell and the last thing you witness, is a Comet Azur out of nowhere, absolutely blasting the living shit out of your char. Sounds fun.
That is why these guys are great. Because they provide so much story and so much detail into their characters and more. Fans don't only like a great game. But they like it when it gets so heavily detailed. Series such as this always keeps the fans around and awaiting new arrivals from these producers. You have to get their interests.
the animations likely were to show that this is what happens when you go too far in your pursuit of the beyond. you become part of the beyond , no longer yourself. they are still all powerful , but they are not themselves. theyve taken on a singular look , similar to the crystalians slim face. not feature related just more how thin they are , how very thin and covered in crystal they are. this is why when they move , it is but a slow flinch of their arms. i think it shows how little of themselves are left after their research. they ward off those who would share their fate , a fate theyd never wish on any of their beloved students. Raya Lucaria is almost like a family , we see so much art of faces like family photos all over the castle and carian manor. magic , was like the love a family shares. but these two saw something so tempting they had to meet it. Selfish maybe to keep such wisdom to themselves , only passing down bits and pieces to their students. But in the end I think they were not banished , I think they left on their own after rennala had a talking to them about the forbidden magic only she was allowed to endure. (her talisman says the moon is in direct contact with her , so something very powerful is keeping rennala safe from the physical corruption that comes with her studies) But because they used forbidden magic , and rennala was very clear about that, they have to be "banished" or removed from the school to show the students that even the masters are to follow the rules set by the Full Moon Witch
but wait ones in jail the other is up on a montain hiding.... maybe rennala really did lock them up. but fucking how did azure get out of prison ? or was he even locked up at all ? see now my whole comments falling apart before my eyes lmao
Methinks the original plan was for you to encounter them in their sorry states and you're expected to.. put them out of their misery. Would explain why their gear drops upon death.
I felt so bad for what happened to Selen , i remember going back to the school a while after finishing her quest, and there she was moaning and deformed, it was sad...
She absolutely did it to herself. Sellen wants power, no matter what. Gathering Lusat and Azur was her way to make herself into a ball of pure intelligence. What I truly think is that, in a possible future DLC, expansion, or update to this story, Sellen needs you to create or gather a new body for her and do a glintstone transfer again. Then, she would be able to cast and be able-bodied but yet have the power of both Lusat and Azur. Really, Sellen's knowledge of soul-transfer is so weird. She can become anything, but if one day she gets another apprentice, she can become anybody else, again. Also, this slots in to the theory that Sellen is Nokron's Night Maiden, namesake of Sellia and centuries old: Once a body gets too old to cast, she uses projection to try and find an apprentice who will find or create a new body for her to live on. It's possible that Sellen has turned herself into a School many times before, getting the knowledge of many just to get a new body to be able to practice her sorcery in. I don't know, and to me it seems like I am wayyy too interested into Sellen's story but it has so many implications for the Lands Between. Is the Primeval Current able to unlock a new slice of the magic world entirely? Is it named blasphemous for its power or something else? And if it is the latter, what is it? So interesting this wing of magic, so undocumented and mysterious that it seems of infinite power yet is named blasphemous. There must be an expansion to this storyline to clear things up.
@@wellnotme9354 Even though she might have done that to herself, it is still sad haha, the way she talks to you after you go back there... Interesting theory though, at first i thought it was Queen Rennala who had put Sellen in her place...
I think they’ve achieved a level of intelligence that surpasses the human experience, and live on a different plane similar to bloodbornes dreams and nightmares
This game has so much mystery and amazing secrets in it, it blows my mind. I’m so excited for DLC for ER. Usually the dlc of souls games are where it gets crazy, but the base game was absolutely bonkers so the dlc is going to be mind boggling.
I hope we can touch on the Graven Schools. It's an interesting concept, and I don't know if there are many clues as to how it happens and why. Also, while it's distinctly possible Sellen was deserving of some kind of retribution, as she no doubt had no small part in creating Graven Schools, I feel like there was hope for her. She wanted to open up the Academy. She wanted to allow knowledge to be more readily available to all who wished to learn. And in the end, whether you were a blunstone or a genius, she appreciated what you did for her and swore her loyalty to you. :( She would've loved Thops.
you are mistaking what happened, its not a accident its on purpose, the graven mass talisman describes the balls as star seeds, its like a cocoon for malformed stars, its the dragon communion for sorcerers
@@colorpg152 Ah. Well it seems like a...GRAVE MISTAKE. Well, it always seemed to be something akin to magical blowback in a way. Like she messed with something she shouldn't have, or looked too far into the primeval current. It's like she's in agonizing pain, barely coherent to the things around her except her precious apprentice.
@@Grabnok its hard to speak when you have no vocal cords, remember she is fully inorganic with no mouth at this point, but she can speak and teach spells so clearly she isn't a vegetable and we know those balls are capable of teleportation, flight and casting so who knows its ambiguous at best
@@colorpg152 The wouldn't she be unable go speak at all being a giant rock? Unless there's a physical remnant of Sellen buried in there are there's some kind of movement. Oh God...what if her head is still left over in one of those masks? Also, I still don't think she intended to become THAT. She might've tried to do SOMETHING, but she seemed determined to lead the Academy and side with the new Elden Lord. I doubt she could do that as a big rock. Even if they believed them to be star seeds, it still feels like a grand mistake.
With their attack and death animations I could see it being a thing where you're sent to kill these infamous heretical sorcerers, but when you get to them you see they're these near immobile husks who are so far gone that they can't even use their powerful sorceries to defend themselves, all they can do is spurt out these feeble little pebbles. Cue you questioning whether or not you're the real monster etc. etc. It feels like a very Fromsoft twist for a quest.
Considering the state they are in, it would be cool if using the Law of Regression spell would actually kill them or otherwise revert them to a state where they are more mobile. It'll be great to see a more in-depth look at the Primeval Current in future DLCs for Elden Ring.
I always wonder what was going on in the location we find Azur in. First there's the Craftsman's Shack which presumably refers to some off-screen genius who constructed the pulley (cross)bow and likely the abductor virgins as well. This also may have been the hermit of the Hermit Village (which is a pretty contradictory name in itself, as a hermit is someone who lives alone and a village are people living together); other options would be errant sorcerer Wilhelm, whose set is found here, or Azur himself. Then there are a bunch of dead windmill celebrants lying around, a family of demi-humans somehow allied with sorcerers, and finally Azur just sitting there out in the open. It makes absolutely no sense to me.
ugh... im aggravated... i watched a video recently that made some interesting points about the creation of abductor virgins... ... but i dont remember the points or the video
The sorcerers die if you kill the demi-human queen, so I wonder if they’re actually still alive. They obviously used to be, since we find sorcerers guarding the other teacher, but I suspect the Demi-human queen wanted Azur’s magic for herself and massacred the place. As for the village being a “hermit village” it’s likely because Raya Lucaria’s hermits make pilgrimage to Azur and used to stop there for a time, hence why we find the errant sorcerer set there.
The game gave me the "You're beautiful" prattling pate before I found azur. I used it on him since he looked like a disaster, and I thought that's what gave me comet azur when the notification came onscreen.
"The primeval current is a forbidden tradition of glintstone sorcery. To those who cleave to its teachings, the act of collecting sorcerers to fashion them into the seeds of stars is but another path of scientific inquiry." So... wait... was this Sellen's goal?... did she... succeed??? I made the assumption that this was a surprise punishment
That wording, to me, implies that making Schools of Graven Mages is something typically done to others, using other mages as test subjects essentially. I doubt Sellen's fate is something she wanted, given how powerless and even in pain she seems to be. Azur and Lusat at least seem tranquil, potentially "ascended", even though I'm not sure they were specifically looking to become immobile half-crystal men either.
@@platinumdragon3007 I watched a long video on the Primeval Current... pretty cool lore. Anyway you're right, Sellen didn't want this. Now she's like the other failures she probably created. I liked her, but then turns out she's a heartless bitch. But now I can wear Lusat's and Azur's actual former brains as a hat, lmao, this game!
@@Thepher6 yeah, she's a very charming and interesting character, which is why I think a lot of players (including myself) like her and sympathize with her. But it definitely seems like there's a darker side to her, and she's probably behind at least some of the Schools of Graven Mages.
@@platinumdragon3007 Thops’ dialogue strongly implies Sellen created many of the graven schools: “But Sellen was expelled from the academy. Accused of unthinkable treatment of certain sorcerers, under the name of the Graven Witch.”
I think it's very possible that not only Glintstone itself is sentient, but also parasitic and it spread much like a fungus or slime mold. I think it might also explain why glintstone deposits respawn when smithing stone doesn't. It came from outer space, too, so it makes it even more likely, like how the Fallingstar monsters seem to be mineral-based, and use similar "magic-based" powers. It "infects" things in a similar way the Scarlet Rot does, physically changing their attributes, like the Miralda flowers, and the dragons you find in the area.
Albriech was also starting to grow his own primeval crystals if you removed his hat, he's growing blood star glintstones growths under the wraps. Lusat is growing into a voidborne and wonder if the eye is some how parasitic like the greater will. I don't think it was an accident that envoys look like they're growing bulbous heads too at the haligtree cocoons and use holy version of claymen magic that they also look like astelbubbles/glintstoneorbs (w/e the orbs the marionette play with before dropping) growth has taken place. I wonder how much involvement crystallians have with voidborne beings like alabaster lords also comprised of sediment, and they might be from space too and can be affected by outergod influences like the rot crystals. I also think starcaller followers are growing meteorites through their hoods in similar fashion or maybe everyone is inserting rocks like sellens glintstone core and do not grow them normally.
I don't think writing comments like this is very useful to your cause. From what I've seen, it just makes people want to do it less and less. At the very least, formulate it a bit differently. This "day X of asking for Y" is a bit passive aggressive. Just address them directly, show them a bit of respect as a fellow human.
I love this kind of "inorganic life" idea they're going for here. It makes them seem truly alien and something genuinely not ken to life on earth, the opposite of Bloodborne's "You're actually related to this horrifying alien thing" idea.
I always thought Azur was the future of evolution for Glint stone sorcery and Lusat was how far back and old it goes back. Like what the future could hold and what forgotten ancient secrets we could remember.
I like how sorcery always has a very sinister underlying story to it in the series. With Dark Souls, it was created by one of the most evil characters imaginable as a means to corrupt innocent people, driving them down his path. In Elden Ring, sorcery causes one of the most horrid fates in the game, a catatonic state of gradual crystallization.
In Demon's Souls it's one of the Soul Arts, practices that draw from the Old One's powers and which kicked off all the events of the game (though miracles are implied to also be a soul art as well).
Bloodborne’s Arcane also focuses on that topic. Using the echoes of people past in all their suffering and pain and manifest it as a miracle of the gods.
You kind of need eyes(that is looking at the material world) to aim those signature spells, and all of the showcased spells in the duo's arsenal seem to be undirected or self-guiding. Ranni may have *helped* Sellen a bit, given she watches over the grand library and Rennala, and she seems to have a thing for karmic end for villains(as seen in case of Pidia).
I really wish they gave Sellen a unique crystal look like azur and lusat if you side with her, it'd still have the same impact and it'd be cooler than a ball on the ground
I was so sad when I saw Sellen end up that way at the end of her quest line. I genuinely liked her as a character and thought that Sellen was going to use the egg to rebirth herself once more out of her puppet body into a new Rennala. Nope, that didn't happen at all. When I heard her speak in that literally disembodied voice, my heart broke. Thanks FromSoftware...
I always just progress her quest to the point she’s taken over Raya Lucaria and then just never give her the final crystal from Lusat lol, secret best ending
Btw, for a "perfect rebirth" you need the great rune you get after defeating Rennala. Basicly, you are the only one who could use her rebirth without hurting yourself. That's why another lovely npc has a sad fate if you don't know that
