Many problems: First, during discharge, your anode product is soluble in your electrolyte. That is to say, the iron chloride being formed at the (-) plate during discharge is itself soluble in the iron chloride electrolyte. This introduces many problems. For one, you therefore don't have a reversible reaction at the (-) plate.... i.e. you can't recharge the battery. In other words, you can't 'force' the iron chloride swimming around "way out" in the electrolyte to reduce again to elemental iron and re-join the anode substrate material. That would be trying to plate iron onto more iron from an FeCl2 plating bath using a non-iron sacrificial electrode (graphite), and that doesn't work. Iron plating onto more iron can be done, but is extremely difficult with complicated plating chemistry needed. In an Fe-Ni battery, as an example, the iron oxide stays on the (-) plate. It never leaves, because it's not soluble in the KOH e-lyte. It just oxidizes in-situ and doesn't migrate out into the e-lyte. Therefore during recharge, it can reduce back to elemental iron right on the (-) plate. Thus, you can go back and forth. Same thing over at the (+). The various Ni oxides never leave the (+). They oxidize and reduce in-situ, because they are not soluble in the e-lyte. Secondly, during the charge cycle of the cell in this video, depending on the voltage used, all you're probably doing is getting a little Fe to 'plate' onto your carbon in sort of a spongy mass, and generating chlorine gas over at the steel plate, and/or electrolyzing water and oxidizing your nicely prepared carbon. You said you charged up your battery for 5 minutes before running the car? What is powering the car then is most likely oxygen and hydrogen that was formed via electrolysis of water during the charge cycle. You have made a simple fuel cell in essence, which is a nice demonstration in itself, but not really a Fe-C couple. Suggest: Choose an electrolyte such that the anode product-of-discharge (iron chloride) isn't soluble in it. That's why we use KOH or NaOH with batteries having a steel (-) plate. KOH is more conductive than NaOH, and a little less nasty to work with, that's why it is used. Since you want to utilize carbon at the (+), why not make an Fe-Air cell? You're almost there already. US patent 3,649,361 (General Electric) lays out a simple method for the Air-side which doesn't require a noble metal catalyst. Or... paint your (+) with Ni(OH)2. Utilize a Tyvek separator. Use KOH e-lyte. Thanks for posting your work. Very interesting commentary.
Hello William, I've replicated the cell you demonstrated and you have inspired me to make a video showing the cell. I've added a few minor changes and I'm quite happy with the result. I would appreciate any feedback or comments you might have. Many Thanks
I'm glad to have inspired some others to look at Iron/carbon cells. Not as impressive as some other battery chemistries but it's hard to beat in terms of low cost and availability of materials.
Nicely made cell :-) How is the cell performing after several months, also have you stripped one down to examine the components for signs of wear. - Martin.
Natural do avanço ao domínio tecnológico através das pesquisas , sendo segundarista e vendo ampla evolução da forma de produção e armazenamento de energia, caminha para mesmo Processo de armazenamento de dados:como o carbono está na maioria das ligações quimicas ;creio a utilização de mineral rico neste haverá de ser descoberta fórmula de produzir reações ultra rápidas na produção e compactação de energia;temos belo futuro, abraço.
Hello William, really great job. 😉 I don't know if you're still present to comment. A question I have is about the kind of battery it is "really" , because often the iron based anode batteries presents lower volatges (it's not exactly the case here, kind of mysterious) : - Is it more a kind of supercapacitor on the positive active material? (acting like iron phosphate pseudo capacity in lithium cells) - Or some kind of internal oxygène breading (the oxygène is some how regenerated at ech cycle ) - Or just the carbon that makes the differential potential (theoritically in "average potential" of the table) and maybe the highest energy links between chloric and ferrous ions that help incrising the oxydo reduction difference (during ionic spliting) Sorry if my technical engligh is not perfect, I'm nether English (an awful French)... nor chemist ☺
Thank you! I believe the overall chemistry of my cell is probably this redox reaction: Fe + 2 FeCl3 -> 3FeCl2 , Eo = 0.77V Eo = -0.44V Eocell = 1.21V. So 1.21 volts is the the theoretical voltage and it looks like my cell is getting close to that output. I guess it's possible that it could be partially acting as a super capacitor but I don't know of any way to prove that. I don't think that it is an iron/air battery because the cell is sealed , completely closed off to the atmosphere, and doesn't have an air breathing cathode which air batteries require.
@@William_Hada super fast answer after more than 4 years ;) Thanks a lot ; Well I think you're probably near the point of cracking the most abondant iron based open source chemistery. Let me just proposed some points / ideas of improvement or just verifications If it's not acting as a supercapacitor you could probably withdraw the carbon ink or at least the active carbon material (with porous reactants) and see if the voltage is more stable and non- breathing during discharge (with wet impregnate iron chloride cotton for exemple or simple graphite powder). Maybe also try some more common stainless steel cathode electrode, supposed to be oxydo resistant and cheaper (I don't know for the catalist reaction - to be tested). Nevertheless, good improvement and continuation in your experiments and life. (From a simple methods engineer)
@@mathiaspinto4197 Thanks for the suggestions. I found out that stainless steel does not work in this cell especially for the anode. Lately I have been working on a Zinc/Iodine battery cell and all my time gets taken up in that exploration. So not much time left for the Iron cell work.
Nice little battery. Have you run any tests on it such as capacity, charge/discharge times, or cycle life? Do you have any info on the chemical reactions taking place at the anode and cathode? A suggestion: why not use a food vacuum sealer to seal one side? That way, you remove all air pockets and increase the contact between the active materials of the cell.
If you don't mind can you send links 2 where you got your material, I understand you said the names of the material but some of them I'm not familiar with and need to make sure I get the right stuff thank you
If your battery weighed about 3.714g, I'm getting a specific energy of ~2.69 mWh/g, or 2.69 Wh/kg. What is the model and brand of battery analyzer you used, and how much did you pay for it? I'm currently using ZKE's EBC series and finding them excellent cycle testers for anyone getting started on a budget!
Yes, that is about the total weight of each of the cells that I built. I use the same ZKE battery load tester that you have for initial cell testing and I am very happy with it. For repeated charge/discharge testing over many cycles, I bought a Battery Metric MK-201 module. I bought it quite a while ago and don't remember the exact price at the time but it was about the same price that they list it for now, $175. I really like this MK-201. It has proven to be very reliable, accurate, and versatile. Here is the link to purchase one: www.batterymetric.com/mk-modules/. It is a great value for what it can do at that price. You can easily pay ten times that price for one with similar capabilities.
@@William_Hada the ZKE EBC-A01, A05, and A10H all support cycle testing up to 1000 cycles per session as well and are all less than $175 with enclosures. I thought I heard you say BA500WIN?
@@kennethanderson7642 BA500WIN is the Windows software program that I use to control that tester. I wasn't aware that ZKE had load testers that ran multiple charge/discharge cycles.
It's been a couple of years so maybe you've tried something similar with a zinc anode...for higher Voltage? Ant dendritic issues with an iron cell...downside of zinc.
Thanks for taking an interest in this battery and watching the video. I have not done anything with zinc because the main purpose of the work was to explore and demonstrate the specific use of iron and carbon as battery materials.
Any suggestions on other materials I could use as a current collector? Getting graphoil here in South Africa is not cheap nor easy. Would I be able to use copper shim stock and then paint it all over with the carbon ink to seal it off?
Instead of using Grafoil sheets you could try painting a sheet of paper first with a conductive paint/ink. Then coat it with the active carbon ink. Refer to Robert Murray-Smith's videos on RU-vid on how to make your own conductive inks. He also sells inks on his website ( secure.workingink.co.uk/working-ink-shop/page/2/ ) . Initially, I would stay away from any metals, like copper on the carbon cathode because in my experience its hard to seal off any metal collector completely enough to stop copper or other metal interfering with the cell chemistry. I've tried using/reusing thin Graphite blocks as electode collectors but they are surprisingly porous and absorb/retain electrolyte salts which contaminate the electrodes if you reuse them in other cell Chemistries. Grafoil is preferred to graphite slabs because of the weight reduction. A good conductive ink on a non-metallic inert sheet material should work OK and worth a try.
@@William_Hada oooh, I like that idea. I actually have some graphite powder, wonder if I could just make some graphite ink and use that instead of the graphoil. Will give it a go!
@@StefanWiswedel Definitely check out Robert Murray-Smith's videos on making conductive ink. You will need some sort of binder in it to hold it together like they use in paints. A simple one like adding white Elmer's Acrylic glue should work. Adding 5 to 10 % by weight to the graphite powder. Adding too much binder can kill the conductivity. You will have to experiment with binder amount, adding just enough to hold it together but not sacrifice conductivity. You will also need to add a little water to make it into a paintable fluid.
@@William_Hada thank you! I have watched many of his videos but haven't come across good ones on his inks yet. I have tried to make a few but conductivity has always been terrible. I am probably adding too much binder! Thanks for the hint. I recently tried to make one with some varnish (polyurethane). I must try with adding as little binder as possible and then just thinning with turpentine
@@StefanWiswedel Here is a link to a good simple conductive ink to try: rosieresearch.com/diy-conductive-paint-recipe/ It is important to add as little glue/binder as you can but still hold itself together. 5% to 10% by weight is a good starting point. (The percentage is based on the solid plastic acrylic resin in the glue. The glue has some water in it so the actual resin content is going into be less then what you weigh out).
Yes, in theory, I think it is possible to power an electric bike with this battery system. But scaling up would require a lot more investigation and effort. It would not be a trivial pursuit but I think it is possible and could be done.
Is that pyrolytic carbon graphite? Cool video!! Are you from New York? Why would the anode be the iron? I thought that the cathode was the more noble material.
No, it is grafoil, that can purchased from eBay or Amazon. The anode has to be iron because it plays an important part in the chemistry of the cell which is oxidation/reduction of iron. The cathode is essentially activated carbon which you could say that it is more noble than iron, carbon is less reactive than iron.
Grind together a mixture of 80% Activated Carbon and 20% conductive Carbon Black. Add 10% by weight CMC/SBR binder plus enough water to make a viscous paintable ink. Elmer's white glue ( PVA glue) can be used for a binder instead of CMC/SBR.
@@chrisroyce8252 Any activated carbon can be used. The higher the surface activation area and the more electrically conductive it is, the better it will perform. I used activated sugar carbon in my battery cell.
Ferric Chloride can be easily purchased at many places. One can buy the dry powder or solution from Amazon and eBay. The solution is used to etch the copper off printed circuit boards. I just bought 500 grams of dry powder on Amazon for $17.60.
@@royaltybadboy5465 I've tried lot's of other electrolyte salts and Ferric Chloride is the only one that worked well for me. At this point I know of no other salt that works as well in this particular battery cell.
I am having a problem .. I have tried to make battery 3 times and two with activated carbon and one with manganese dioxide .. Used potassium hydroxide as well as sodium sulphate electrolytes and charged on 2.6v (at 3 volt electrolyte start burning) but all the time after charging voltage suddenly start dropping and battery don't have power to test on EBDtester ... Can anyone rectify what I am missing 😔0
I already tried those electrolytes and found that they do not work for this cell. You must use a Ferric Chloride, FeCl3, solution for the electrolyte as I did in the video. I used 2M FeCl3 for the concentration. Also, keep the charging voltage between 1.4 and 1.6 volts or you will get too much hydrogen evolution and destroy the cell.
@@asifalikhan8677 No, only the (+) cathode is activated carbon. The (-) anode must be iron or carbon steel. Do not use stainless steel for the anode. The chromium in stainless steel will cause the battery to not work.
Zinc based batteries are excellent and have a long history but I got interested in Iron based batteries because they are less utilized and explored. I am not trying to find the best battery here but just trying to demonstrate the possible potential for iron based batteries.
