Electrical Work: Wiring for my American Rotary Phase Converter 

Very helpful. I installed a used 3hp phase converter to power jointers and a grinder in my garage. It was a fun and relatively project, and really good to get those tools running. It also opened up a lot of possibilities as far as other tools go, so naturally I acquired some more and larger 3-phase tools. Now I have a 10hp converter that I need to install for my barn later this spring. That installation has gone nowhere for a while, but your work is inspiring me!

Keith, for me, and I'm sure a lot others, there is no need to apologize for no machining content. This is all part of it, and some VERY GOOD information!

Keith - you are making progress. Each video has something new. Can't wait to see the completed shop!

I learned something new today.. I always thought it was simply a (rotary phase converter) single phase motor driving a 3 phase generator motor to produce the power. looking at the science behind this, it makes alot of sense that a single 3 phase motor with the correct switching components, would generate the 3rd leg, and maintain 120* phase sync, like a transformer. damn.. like a smack on the head

RPCs are vital to running 3-phase equipment and this video is VERY much on-topic! Many areas charge commercial rates to run three phase which can be very expensive even for commercial shops. OTOH a freestanding RPC can be run from any appropriate receptacle or can be wired in. The Practical Machinist forums have many professionals running RPCs. Many otherwise skilled people are intimidated by electricity despite the level of knowledge required to interact usefully with professionals being modest. Many home services are maxed out so running a new shop service can be a good way to go (and if either needs work you still have power to one). I choose free standing (my American Rotary is on a wheeled skid I fabbed, it's easy work) to match all my machinery which is set of for easy rearrangement as I acquire equipment. There's no downside to making everything mobile including my lathe and mill for which I fabbed simple stable bolt-on outrigger arms with scaffolding casters. The same gear that lets me easily move my equipment is what got it home safely without paying a rigger.

Loved the tour Keith and really enjoy your channel!

Thanks for another great video Mr. Keith!

I think it is just amazing how infrastructure differs from one country to another. Greetings from Switzerland

I always enjoy the shop-build videos. Can't wait to visit in person. See you 3 weeks from tomorrow!

Going to get an AM Rotary and was so happy to see you had a video

Thanks for the update its coming on a treat

A million dollar shed when you get done Keith. =)

Nice work Keith getting there, good content.

I enjoyed the little electrical tour.

Its really been something watching your new shop come along from scratch, you've gotten so much done and im know its been a ton of work and expense -, but wow what a shop you have already, really gonna be something when its done.

Just to clarify that with single phase, they only run one of the phases to your house, not two. The two legs you get are split 180 degrees through a transformer. Each phase of a 3 phase supply is 120 degrees from the other (208 volts line-line vs 240)

nice work Keith. pretty satisfying to look at a cleanly done and well executed electrical job.

Thanks Keith; one of my ham radio friends sent me a diagram of a do it yourself "rotary converter" system. Of course it won't run near as many devices as your system. Hope it works out well for you in the new shop. Greg

35+ licensed master electrician. Good job man. i might have done it a bit different, but this is OK.

It is better to have a service with 100 amp too much than 1 amp too little. I thought that you would be upgrading the service at some point. It happened sooner than I expected and I'm sure that you won't regret spending the money now. Thanks for the update and the information.

I am in Virginia , in Wise County! Here when ODP disconnects my power for anything , we can Not get power restored until we have an inspection. Old Dominion Power requires that when they cut power you MUST pay an inspection fee and get inspection. And after you take inspection report to their office and then ODP will come out and reconnect !! Be safe and God bless you!!!!

AWESOME , You need the 3 pole power to make big chips ..LOL!! Looking like a big step to the shop build , Thumbs up Keith ..

As you run machines off of your converter they add power to your grid after they start. I have a similar system with a 15hp converter, never had a problem.

My back hurts thinking about digging that trench

Great! Answered all the questions I had from the previous episode.

Great to see your progress. Just a thought, around here when the power goes out it can be a good while before it comes back. Maybe when you build the doghouse for the converter and compressor leave room for a generator too. A manual transfer switch would be easy to put on the wall. Having one saved my butt a few years back .

looks good Keith

Here in Sacramento, Calif.....Single phase to 3 phase....100 amps.....where the prices start at.... Minimum of 75 horse power usage at 40 hours a week....that doesn't include any poles or wiring/meter panel....But you're correct....sometimes you're just too far away from 3 phase that power company will not install the extra service.... Like the rural property I just bought....1/2 mile from nearest 3 phase....but I have 240 V single phase at 200 amps....and an old ARCO 10 horse rotary converter.....

Great Job! Highly praised, who ever decided to make 3-Phase standard in germany.

You know when that outside panel will be really useful? When you build the shed for the compressor and the hvac/dust collection equipment next to the meters to get the noise out of that echo filled shop.

Great explanation Keith Thanks for sharing!

That is the best way to use the rotary phase converter by wiring into a 3phase breaker panel. Here is a cheat! Wire into the 3 phase breaker panel with the two incoming single phase power legs/ LINE IN, they should be wired into the two outer Runs in the 3 phase breaker Panel, then from a breaker of sufficient size wire the two live single phase legs into the static starter, from there you will have three legs coming out to the 3 Phase Rotary Motor, use a small gang box and mount it near the static starter and run all three legs into it, in the gang box, tie in a fourth wire to the high leg coming through and take that extra high leg back to the 3 phase breaker panel and wire into the center row in the panel, between the two 110 volt low legs that you wired previously. Back to the gang box, run the original high leg and the two low legs directly to the rotary converter. I do it this way for a reason: Once I start up my largest 3 phase machine and have it up and running, I then turn off my rotary converter and the 3 phase machine stays running and is now feeding 3 phase power back to my 3 phase breaker panel. I can run smaller 3 phase equipment off of my larger equipment's motor that is now became a rotary converter and is back feeding the 3phase breaker panel, use the 2 to 1 ratio for horse power when doing this, my larger machine has a 15hp motor it can start up a 7.5 hp easily and once I start that 7.5hp machine up I now have 22.5hp feeding back into the breaker panel. I save on electricity and wear and tear on my rotary converter by operating my shop this way. I also wired 3phase to a 50KVA transformer and doubled my 3phase 230volts to 460volts and run a 460volts machine that way. I also have a hack for hard starting air compressors. The small copper line leading to the pop off valve, take it off and add a small 1 gallon air tank run that copper line into it on a T and continue to the pop off valve. What this does is gives the electric motor a few more revolutions/ a running start with no load hitting the head of the pump. When the motor turns on to pump air it will have to fill the small 1 gallon tank first before the one way valve kicks in with the higher pressure of the main tank. This hack saves on electricity by not spiking the power meter and helps the electric motor last much longer. GOD BLESS.

Keith, you probably already know this, but your rotary convertor (from the mfgr's literature) still passes through the single-phase power (voltage from L1 to L2) even when the convertor is off. Shutting down the convertor only kills L3. If you try to start a machine before starting the convertor it will single-phase and could damage the motor. Not an issue if you make sure the convertor is running prior to starting any equipment. Also, as you probably know, the convertor will only properly feed delta-connected equipment (stuff that doesn't need a neutral). If you try to feed wye-connected equipment, the voltages will be wrong. Plain 'ol motors should be fine. Oh, and great job! Keep 'em coming!

Always good Keith

Thanks Keith I'm lovin it....

keith looking good.

More angey pixies!

I've comment on this before. Here's the deal on 3 phase in the US. You can't even get it unless you a near a major main road. Where I used to live you could not even get it up there. I MIGHT be able to get it where I live now because I'm 400 feet off a main read. But even if they will run it I would pay a bill that STARTS at $10,000 a month

The American Rotary discount code appears to only apply to the higher end line of converters (AD and ADX) not the standard AR series units. You also need to purchase a complete turnkey unit to get the discount. If you already have a motor like I do and just wanted the converter panel you're out of luck there as well.

I have a friend who is an electrician and has been doing some work in the US (We're both Danes), and he still has nightmares about it. Apparently, in the eyes of most people in the trade over here, American * electrical code is mostly a joke. He says he is geniunely perplexed that more houses don't burn down regurlarly because of bad installations. I showed him this and he wasn't triggered. He said it looks very good! * I realize (or I believe, at least) electrical code is state by state governed and some might be fine but some is definitely not quite *

amazing you can get a 400a amp service, my house and workshop has to share a 50a total service...im one of the rare garage workshops that has proper wiring and a 40a circuit, compared to a couple neighbours who are at the end of a 13a circuit and blow fuses all the time with normal equipment use, i can at least run a heater and a drill at the same time! be good to get that doghouse up soon, hiding the compressor outside will save your sanity too!

The crazy thing is even a Cabin or Cottage can get 3 phase here in the EU :D Makes life cheaper and easier for the ones who wanto have a shop.

Back in my sparky days, we called this a "class 320 service" I think the meter base is actually called a class 320 meter base.

Nice job

THANK YOU...for sharing.

nice wiring work!

Wow, that's a lot of power. I've got 100A @ 240V into my shop and I think that's a lot, you've got double that! In the UK at least you will struggle to get 3-phase power supplied to a residential address. I've got 3-phase but when I spoke to the electric company about getting the meter moved they were pushing hard to downgrade the service to single phase.

The green wire going to panel looks like it is parallel with white wire which makes it a current carrying conductor not to code .

Hello Keith, Looks like you have a well thought out electrical system and its coming together very nice! I'll be hitting up Stan as well once I get to that point in my new shop build, unfortunately I will only have a 100 amp service in the shop, It was about 10K more to get a 200 amp service, way outside of my budget! Looking forward to seeing you at the Bash! Best Regards, Ray

In a few weeks I will be making ,in batch mode , a few hundred feet of pine door casing. Wish I could find free transport from Maryland . I would send you 4-5 13 feet pices.

Hi, you try run three-phase sensible electronics on your rotary phase converter as sample 3phase tig welder

I would definitely have a remote starting of the convertor. Do not use the feeding breakers for routinely turning it on and off... it is hard on the breakers to be used as a switch. Hopefully the convertor has a motor starter that you can run it when you need it and avoid the wasted energy. You can rig up three way switches at each machine that use 3 phase so you can start the convertor from any of the machines.

Looking good. Only thing I would have done differently would be to have the input breaker on the rotary phase converter on the inside wall next to your three phase panel. As wired it requires you to go outside to turn on phase converter. Also to turn it off. I can just see forgetting to turn it off... Ouch power bill!

Nice one!

I always thought a 3 phase converter was just a single phase motor connected to a 3 phase alternator. Thanks for the education.

Nice work Keith, install looks clean. Maybe consider for the future a 3 phase monitor on the inside of the shop so you know everything is good with the system before you power up equipment? It may be part of or an option on your RPC?

How do you use pass though lugs as a disconnect you would have to unwire it to disconnect that won't work in my state you have to have a switch ,lever,pullout,or a plug to be used as one.

Keith, In Australia we have in country areas what is called a SWER Line, "Single Wire Earth Return". It is a single wire on the power pole that has a transformer attached to it at the customers address that can convert it to single or Three Phase power depending on the customers requirements. Also does a phase converter require more power to run it than is actually put out to the customers needs. Eg: if a machine requires 20 amps 3 phase power to run a machine does it also require a few more amps to do the conversion from single to 3 phase?

why didn't you plan and wire where your 3 phase would go instead of running conduit over that beautiful wood? just asking

Dang I hate three phase isn't available close to you that's great though your able to have a converter to make up for it.

Grate video

Keith, I realize it's been years since doing the APC 40hp upgrade but I have some questions. You said the power brought in more power to get you to 400amp 1ph. Approximately what did they charge you to do this back then? You said they also provided the load center or panel to give you 2 x 200amps per side. Did they charge you for that as well and approximately how much $? I'm assuming they upgraded meter as well? I'm in the middle of changes to my electrical here in SoCal at my home since closing down my machine and metal fab shop. I'm building my shop on my back lot just over am acre and until it's ready I'm using my garage which is fairly large but lacks the power. My home is now 43 years, it's a R1 property and only has 100 Amp 1ph 240 so I'm working with my electrical provider as we speak. 3ph is to far off from me up in the hills here so 1ph will have to be via a converter. I'm good with the Phase converters and transformer equipment but just wondering if you were charged a fee and Approximately how much. Thx Keith. RickO

Might want to check on the local and NEC codes. You need to be able to kill ALL power to the building from one single spot. No more than six throws of the hand is the rule. As I understand on this video, you can kill power to the outdoor load center my its main breaker. Then you have to go inside and kill the main breaker on that load center. Typically that is not allowed. If you have an emergency, such as a fire, the fire fighters need to kill all power from the outside at one location and NOT have to enter the structure to locate another breaker to turn off to make the location electrically safe for them to enter. The inspector might give you a red tag on this installation.

Onya Miles.

How is the noise level? I'm thinking about installing one of these, but don't want to disturb my neighbors who are about 500 feet away.

rolling rolling keep them dogies rolling / hurry we are waiting

I nearly fell out when I went to buy a length of wire to install a night street light on my property. I couldn't believe the cost.

Volts times amps is VAR's, not Watts unless you have a purely resistive load.

How much current does your phase converter consume while it's running with no 3 phase load?

Hi Keith, In Australia we have different supply voltages, but the question I would like to ask is when you run your supplies to your machines do you need to have them plug in or can they be wired with a c/breaker in the switchboard and a local isolator at each machine where they are hardwired connected. Of course this would stop a plug and play from the outlet but it may be cheaper than a plug for each machine and 3 phase switched wall outlet at each machine group. I am. It sure whether you need switched wall outlets on your 3 phase. Very interesting watching how you do electrics in the states, and seeing a phase convert or in action, regards Michael.

Did your inspector catch the error in the first outside panel? The grounds are not supposed to be tied to the neutral buss in that panel, but rather on the ground buss, in the upper left hand corner. Same goes for all other panels. The meter section is correctly connected.

I think you can buy something similar to a single phase VFD that outputs 3 phase . If so , you would buy one rated for the appropriate hp , for each 3 phase machine . As far as cost , I do not know how this compares to the phase converter you have ? I guess it would partly depend on how many 3 phase machines you have or intend to have ? For the record , there is ( or once was ) such a thing as a 2 phase power . I say a small electric motor , as a kid , that was labeled 2 phase . Not again since . I do not know if it still exists in the USA . Foe all PRACTICAL purposes , it is either single phase or 3 phase . God bless Wyr

Ahh yes. The 3 phase breakers and assorted goodies are a whole different money level.

Weird, this service would not pass inspection in my area. (Oklahoma) The inspector would probably drag you out to his car and start reading off code violations! But every area seems to have their own codes even though they all supposedly follow the NEC. 🤔

I bought a MEP803 a. generator

grounding should be to the cans , not to the neutral bus, Neutralds should be isolated from the cans

cool !!! 240 v 3ph.

I'm sure you did your homework, but using a rotary vs. a solid-state converter seems like choosing "old technology" over new. Efficiency is much better with solid-state as well. Care to share your reasoning?

Good luck in the US to get 3phase ANYWHERE in you aren't in an industrial zone. My uncle had 3 phase 300 Feet from his 60 x 80 pole barn...Edison said "NOPE"...Not even if he paid 100% of the costs associated. The ONLY way to get 3 Phase would have been to create a company AND prove he was producing a product that required 3 phase power. They were pretty much not going to budge. :(

Would have been nice to have had a look inside the unit, two videos and I just saw the outside nothing on the inside

Keith, I have 3 phase lines 200 ft in front of my shop. I 'm zoned light ag. Both my neighbors have 3 phase. How much hassle and $$$ expense wise you think for me to get 3 phase? what you have is my plan B. How much you think the power company will charge me for those 2 extra transformers? So far I don't even know what # to call to ask for the service.

Is the unit loud? How much does it weigh?

gday why dont u have gutters? put it in rainwater tanks and then u got water for the shop and to use with a pressure washer and stuff? cheers

Hi Keith, just another question about your voltages, your 3phase is 220v across phases or 440 volts..3 phase in Australia is 415volts across phases however with 240v variable speed motors they run on 220v 3 phase. Regards Michael

Wish I had known you needed 3 phase panels.

Was the separate 3-phase panel a change during condition u? I'm just wondering why you said, "... I'll run conduits to drops for each machine around the shop." Why are you running conduit now, which I assume you're going to surface mount it, rather than having done it during construction with it inside the wall cavity? Just curious.

That'll be a nice, powerful setup when all hooked up. How long will the discount be offered from American Rotary ? I need to get a converter but need a 220 volt line run to my garage first, and possibly a service upgrade. I'm afraid to see that estimate. Regards -

We're gettin there!!! Thanks Keith!!!! SPECIAL THANKS to Miles for the trenching and all the Patreon supporters!!! Like Keith said, all you viewers who "toss a buck in the hat" are enabling these RU-vid creators to take their channels to the next level and we ALL will reap the benefits from that. So, thank you!!!

how much current will it supply realistically? does it vary under load at all?

Don't they have disconnects at the pole? At my country side house (in europe) they have a remote disconnect. I can call them and have them cut it out without them showing up.

So did it pass inspection on the first go round?

Keith, the horsepower rating of your system will increase with the number of machines you have running at any one time.

Where will you turn the converter on and off? Nice work Jim

Keith, so that breaker in the mini panel next to your meter base actually feeds nothing right now?

hello keith

oh, are you going to put a remote switch for the converter inside?

Have you considered solar Power as you might have some free space on the roof?

How much it cost to installed this phase converter ?

Love your videos, but i wounder, when do you sleep? ( Sorry for the spelling ) .... greatings from Sweden.

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