When trying to find the compression stroke on number one cylinder, rather than removing the valve cover to look at the movement of the valve mechanism, I remove all the plugs apart from number one. When you rotate the crankshaft and feel compression, it has to be number one cylinder. Saves making a mess and the possibility of damaging the gasket.
Thank you for your excellent video. I think the best way to test the ignition is to measure the length of the spark, using an adjustable spark tester. Amperage draw is a good test, but it only measures the current in the primary winding. If the transistor in the module doesn’t make a clean break or the secondary coil winding has a problem, the spark output will be weak or erratic.
LOVE your trick of wrapping a wire coil around an ignition wire so one can measure secondary voltages with a non-automotive O'scope. i wonder if one can get an accurate secondary voltage measurement using the wire coil's turns ratio and some other calculations...
Great diagnosis. I also have a 1950cc engine fitted with Lumination ignition I’m not sure about changing it, but in an earlier video you had priced to buy a 123 unit is this still your plan for the future?
I haven't tried my cleand up webers yet (waiting for misab parts to remount them), but now I'm already questioning if I should take a closer look at my old MSD 6AL box too haha Another great vid. Did you ever finish up the DCOE rebuild series? I can't find anything after mounting them to the manifold.
that is hard to tell without more info. Are you sure that distributor is fitted in the correct direction so that the rotor points to cylinder 1 when that one is at the top of the cylinder and both valves are closed ( compression stroke),,, when you say nothing works what do you mean ?
Good work, it even sounds less pinging. Thanks again for taking the time to instruct and go through a step by step process of bench testing individual systems
Steve, why not just fit standard distributor breaker points? They work fine and have done so for 100 years. Even is you choose to replace them every 2 years that's a lot less dicking around that this science project and replacement expense that you just went thru.
Hi Hugh, the reason is simple, this is a race car and at high rev's7000 RPM those mechanical points are to slow to react when closing.... besides the fact that I want a much stronger spark. More current through the primary of the HT coil is giving more output , brakerpoints are not all that good for high currents... I hope that this answered the question
Brilliant video. I didn’t have the really expensive type of electronic ignition I had the cheaper type but on two of my cars I’ve gone back to points because of them just braking down with no warning! At least with points you can fixed/ change them at the road side. When you raped the wires round the HT leads did you fix one end of the prob to one end of the wire and the earth lead of the prob to the other end of the winding wire? Just to make it clear to me? Thanks ☺️
I m thinking of losing my pts and condenser on my TR6 for electric ignit. I watched Steve Denton's install of a lumenition elect. ignition on his tr6. He didn't utilize a amplifier. Any idea why your system uses it? Great explanations. thx
I'm not a big fan of Lumenition and optical detection ... I used several times Pertronix, with no issue, but now they are far more expensive than before ! then, for Lucas distributors, I used twice Accuspark (UK company), that use hall effect detection, and that's cheap and fine ! no CDI though, but it allows to get rid of points...
My lumenition kit has a slight play on the cutter once installed beneath the rotor. Around 5mm play. Could you confirm this could be an issue at some point?
Ignition trouble with a MGB? Really? I remember multiple episodes of total loss of ignition while driving at 70 mph. That's right, driving along with no problem and then... nothing. I got to know the wrecker driver and heard all about his kids in my multiple tows to the dealer.
@@stephenalexander6721 Yep... Stupidest system so far invented... I have never seen another ignition system with a relay in the running circuit... perhaps in the starting circuit. Finally I bought several little can relays so when it quit I could pop the hood and replace the relay... then I was good for another 1000 miles, or 100 miles, or 10 miles.
Steve please explain why you run your race engine without air filters ? Dave Vizard ( source his book on A series modification ) found that air filtration , properly sized and designed for the carb of choice , did not effect the maximum power and kept dirt , of which a race track has plenty due to soft tyres , out allowing less engine damage . DV tested Webers with filter boxes with rams which I bet you know about . The only advantage of running with no filter is the sound of the air rushing through the carbs , which is nice , but .....
Great video! Now I'm going to test my Lumenition set I have laying around and which I couldn't get to operate... Where did you find the affordable new Lumenition set?
I'd be interested to know the answer to this question, too. Wouldn't mind getting hold of an optical sensor and chopper disc to test with a Bosch high power inductive ignitor and coil on my '66 Alfa. The prices I see online for these Lumenition items aren't attractive, however.
This is very intresting on how to check them components. Although I personally am not a fan of lumenition (I had and also some friends retired from rallies because of issues with them ) On the Avenger/Sunbeam 1600 uses the same distributer as Mini D4. My preferred system is the 123ignition .NL Electronic Distributer which fits straight in and 2 wires to the coil. It has no centrifugal advance weights but a solid shaft instead. You can select your preffered advance curve by Dip switch or USB depending on model. Also I found if my plugs are too cold they can foul up (black) and the strobe light dont flash properly. My favourite plug for my engine is the NGK Iridium BP6 heat range I never had problems since i used both them. Thank you looking forward to more great viewing.
I would have put one channel of the oscilloscope on the optic sensor output, and the other channel on the ignition coil primary side (hundreds of volts, set probes correctly and make sure the scope can handle the voltage!). This would show much of what you say you don't test, the dynamics of the "box" - you see exactly what input the box gets from the sensor, as well as what the box sends out to the coil. You also see all the sparks in the primary side voltage, so you can compare their peak voltage and duration - if all cylinders are working under the same conditions they should be reasonably close to the same, while a faulty plug, lead or cylinder running way rich, lean or different compression should stick out like a sore thumb.
Indee, there are many more possibilities to test and trace, I could even head-up the box and so on... If I was to fix the amp modue then I would do that indeed. But not directly on the HT as that is 20KV
Great video. You could see it on the scope at the beginning compared to the end, the pulses were all over the place, short, long, etc. With the new they were much more even and strong. You could have spun it up on the bench and put the scope on it with your coils-of-wire pickup and seen if it broke down at higher frequency or something. Perhaps I missed cleaning and gapping the plugs, probably in previous video, I forget.
Great video. I'm struggling to see why a fault with the amplifier would affect 2 cylinders and not the other two though - surely it should be getting exactly the same trigger signal for all 4 (the shutter disk is symmetrical), and then it's driving the same single coil. Is it just that the output was weak for all 4, and two of the plugs happened to have different gaps, soot, lead resistance or whatever, and the low output was just enough to make 2 spark, and just not enough to make the other two spark?
Maybe the coil was not getting enough time or current from the timing amplifier module to create enough magnetic field to then create a decent spark plug voltage . Possibly the 'dwell' , in old points terms , was somehow insufficient . Would this indicate a capacitor problem within the amplifier ?
Check your rotor button, replaced entire electronic system, nought wrong with it!!! Twas the rotor button,would run fine but stop for no reason,restart fine but stop a short time later. New button all fixed,albeit I had now had two electronic systems both worked perfectly!!! Mal in au.
Thankyou Steve, another great tutorial we have. I have a question for you. My mini is running 1275 twin hs2 carb with Lucas 65D electronic distributor. When i set the base timing on 10 degree, the engine start pining when it goes high rpm with loading. Is it because i hv too much vacuum advance? Can i adjust the vacuum advance on 65D to avoid pining and at the same te keep running 10 degree base timing? I've been struggle in this problem for a while. Right now just run with 6 degree base timing but the engine temperatrue is a bit high. Thankyou.
Thank you for the great video that taught me some things. I have a small block Chevy in my pro street car with a Mallory dual point distributor which has nothing wrong with it but think electronic ignition would make it run bit better and cleaner burn. But seeing all the reviews on people having problems with dual point electronic conversion kits from the various brands like Mallory, MSD and Pertronix which all make conversion kits and ignition boxes but I don’t want to get stuck on the side of the road with a module or box that goes out. I did buy a old black Mallory HyFire IV ignition box and matching coil I think if I remember correctly was meant to run with my Mallory dual point dizzy. Car has a dual tunnel ram with two Edelbrock 1405’s and my Mallory dual point is in there tight so can’t throw in a HEI since cap is to big. But Pertronix makes one with an outside module that would fit but then again I have zero confidence in all the electronic brands. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
"As you can see there's always something that can go wrong (...) If you think it's only in your case that things go wrong, sometimes well I can assure you it happens with me as well." Im just waiting 'till something goes right.
Hi thank you for your video, it baffles me how the optocoupler knows that that it is firing on cylinders 2 and 3 ? the scope sowed no difference between cylinders . I have had a similar problem that the timing light would not flash on some cylinders , i changed the spark plugs and querd the problem. It turns out that the engine was too rich and socking in the plug incinerators and not letting the ht voltage to get high enough the set off the strobe light.
Master! Thank you very much for sharing this knowledge. I'm restoring a MK2 Escort with Crossflow and now fitting an electronic kit from Lucas (AB13) together with the Lumenition Optronic eye in a standard motrocraft distributor. I'm having issues with starting the engine and was looking for some static timing tips...and here I found some useful ones! Thank you very much again. Best Regards
to confirm that the module is the real culprit, I'd replace, at first, the module, Something say to me that a defective module will repeat randomly the trouble on all the cylinders not only on #2 and #3
too funny, I just returned from picking up a 34mm to find tdc on mine. guess I need to try one of those amp boxes... and as usual you showed us how the pros do it, thank you!
@@D3Sshooter how could I test plug wires to see if they are resistor type? I cannot find any info to see if the Accuspark red wires are. And I have some ngk r6ey in and hear that resistor wires AND plugs is a poor combo?
Very interesting. I too have a mgb 1979 with electronic ignition. It has no pickup on no1 and an erratic pick up on no3 the main difference is I have an accuspark ignition which is not optical. I do not have an oscilloscope so I can only view the spark “optically”. Yours is the first case I have come across where there is no obvious fault. This gives me hope and maybe I am not loosing my mind! Thanks for the video
Mooie video, verrassende uitkomst... Had ik niet verwacht. Ik dacht eerder aan de bougiekabels en verdeelkap. Ik zou denken dat een defecte amplifier module effect op alle cilinders zou hebben, positief of negatief.
Hello, Sir! Just as unbreakable rule: If I'm not working in my garage shop and I have some free time, I watching Your videos! I aprecciate all of the efforts You spent to make me feel excelent ;)
Hi Steve, first of all i want to sincerely thank You for another awesome video! If You happen to have one of those modules that are completely broken and can't be rescued, would it be possible to take it apart in order to see the inside of it?
The New parts boxes were labeled Lumenition brand. I have had good luck with a Pertronix system which uses a Halle effect timing sensor rather than this optic control. The Pertronix installation instructions do stress the importance of a very clean electrical supply for optimum system functioning and life - no voltage spikes, proper solid ground paths, and the use of a specific coil and plug wires. I suspect all or some of these rules would apply to the Lumenition, but that’s just electronic common sense. An additional Pertronix caution states - Do not leave the ignition switched on if the engine is not running.
Indeed, and that is why the infra red is far less sensitive and as such IMO more reliable. As for the last note in your text, you can see what happens if the chopper happens to block the IR light when the engine is stopped... permanent 7Amps through the Coil.... Battery will run empty and the coil and amp will burn up
@@myrlstone8904 if you use the Pertronix 2 it allows you to leave the key on, with no harm to coil. But it runs a coil of under 1 ohm. I ran it on my former MG.
