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Elixir's Molded Carbon Aircraft 

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At Aero in Friedrichshafen, Germany, a French company called Elixir was showing a unique two-seat airplane build of molded carbon fiber using technology to build racing boats. The idea is the airplane is both cheaper to manufacture and much cheaper to maintain because it has vastly fewer parts. AVweb's Paul Bertorelli shot this video summary of the project.

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12 апр 2019

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Комментарии : 246   
@Zalaniar
@Zalaniar 5 лет назад
Wow, that's some impressive numbers for such an inexpensive aircraft. Getting that low of a fuel burn with that much payload and that much speed is insanely good. I'm definitely intrigued and will be keeping an eye on this company. Thanks for bringing us this info, Paul and AVweb!
@DrewLSsix
@DrewLSsix 5 лет назад
Beware of dodgy advertising claims, at the very least I doubt that all those numbers actually would occur simultaneously.
@Walterwaltraud
@Walterwaltraud 5 лет назад
@@DrewLSsix Keep in mind that they got some pretty good subsidies and it's gonna be certified, not microlight regime applicable.
@Walterwaltraud
@Walterwaltraud 5 лет назад
@@DrewLSsix True in the microlight world, not the certified. There only the costs skyrocket lol. But with those circumstances I would consider this quite achievable. For aforestated reasons.
@adamt7090
@adamt7090 5 лет назад
So cool to see so much innovation and new ideas
@JimHausch
@JimHausch 5 лет назад
Hope you can arrange a tour/video of their production method.
@ik04
@ik04 5 лет назад
I've been waiting a long time for someone to build an airplane using this monolithic design. Most modern designs are still too complex and require excessive construction time...
@JimPearsall
@JimPearsall 5 лет назад
This is the next step, see from Pipistrel, Flight Design. Personally not ready to lose spars tho.
@captarmour
@captarmour 5 лет назад
@@JimPearsall are you saying spars should still be used in this type of construction?
@JimPearsall
@JimPearsall 5 лет назад
@@captarmour not should, open to rhe idea but will need more proof a stressed skin composite structure has resilience I am comfortable with.
@CrossWindsPat
@CrossWindsPat 5 лет назад
@@JimPearsall Carbon fiber is pretty ridiculously strong and robust. I have confidence in its ability to act as a wing. IMO this is a huge step forward.
@user-oj4xh8cg2l
@user-oj4xh8cg2l 3 года назад
@@JimPearsall there's a spar in the wing, it's just all built at once, check out the cut-out sketch elixir-aircraft.com/4eme-generation
@MrPagnu
@MrPagnu 5 лет назад
This technology is profusely used in automotive. Here in UK lots of companies do that. It was actually time someone applied it to light aviation. Well done.
@kevinmoore4887
@kevinmoore4887 5 лет назад
Can you name examples. I see it in race cars and sailboats.
@andymckee53
@andymckee53 5 лет назад
Kevin Moore McLaren use this pre preg one shot autoclave technique for their chassis construction. Very fast build time with minimal labour cost.
@timduncan8450
@timduncan8450 5 лет назад
Top Reviewer This is great I love innovation and value engineering, but. ... Race car frames aren’t expected to function for decades. They don’t suffer dramatic temperature and atmospheric pressure cycles experienced by high flying (turbo) aircraft. I am just thinking about the wing so far for; Fuel storage? Control rods/cable spaces, control surfaces and all of their mounting points? Wiring harness placement and service access? I am not a composites design engineer but these seem like a few (of probably many more) challenges that must be dealt with. If anyone has experience/insights please share! I do believe aircraft engineering/manufacturing could gain a lot of economy’s when and where they can borrow from other industries.
@kevinmoore4887
@kevinmoore4887 5 лет назад
@@andymckee53 OK, I was curious if any production street cars might be using the technology. Making a simpler, lighter car. I'm not knowable of what is offered in Europe.
@kevinmoore4887
@kevinmoore4887 5 лет назад
@@timduncan8450 Lots of good points. Burt Rutan designed a lot of fiberglass over foam aircraft. The Long EZ being very popular. The biggest issue is did the builder do the composite work correctly.
@dh-flies
@dh-flies 5 лет назад
Glad to see you are no longer detained Paul...
@brandonb417
@brandonb417 5 лет назад
Imagine getting a 6 place plane built like this, the pricing could be amazing with killer performance.
@mrbizi5652
@mrbizi5652 4 года назад
That’s what I want to build
@CCitis
@CCitis 5 лет назад
Sweet Airplane... Looks good
@happyduckling
@happyduckling 5 лет назад
Wow it's seems very innovative ! I am impressed ! And cheap as well !
@publicmail2
@publicmail2 5 лет назад
Cheap I won't go that far @180k
@SidestickPilot
@SidestickPilot 5 лет назад
There’s plenty of experimental aircraft much more affordable with better performance.
@PistonAvatarGuy
@PistonAvatarGuy 5 лет назад
@@SidestickPilot Yeah, you just need to spend 10 years of your life building them.
@fdtank81
@fdtank81 5 лет назад
Very nice design
@ABC-rh7zc
@ABC-rh7zc 3 года назад
Very interesting!
@lidders
@lidders 2 года назад
I saw it at Friedrichshafen 2022 & it’s impressive. They basically looked at all the accident data over the last few years & attempted to design out the major causes. Its got a parachute recovery system; It’s un-spinnable - ailerons are fully effective in the stall; it’s an extremely strong structure & offers a lot of protection for the occupants if you did crash; a single explosion-proof fuel tank running through both wings to eliminate fuel starvation by not switching tanks & help prevent fatalities from post-crash fires. It comes with the option of trailing link undercarriage for rough field operation. Corrosion free structure. Lots of experience out there now with repairing structural carbon fibre - think 787. Only problem is the price seems to have gone up & it’s not yet certified in the UK. Hopefully it will be because someone has actually applied some original thinking here.
@mysock351C
@mysock351C 5 лет назад
200k USD. Affordable, but not cheap. Still pretty cool to see them using composites the way they're used in other vehicles. I remember working with the carbon fiber pre-preg back in college. Hard to mold and cure, but strong stuff.
@UncleKennysPlace
@UncleKennysPlace 5 лет назад
Reduction in price requires economy of scale.
@rkan2
@rkan2 4 года назад
In college when? doing molds these days is almost childs play with 3d-printing.. Still the most difficult part of the process of course.
@rkan2
@rkan2 4 года назад
What other planes for that money have operating cost of 45$?
@benthurber5363
@benthurber5363 3 года назад
@@rkan2 A Sonex can have comparable performance for at least 1/4 the up-front cost (or less) and lower opperating costs... also, the wings are removable, which means you can trailer it home or have more hangarage options if money gets tight. That thick wing to make up for the lack of a spar is murder on effeciency. The Sonex isn't going to win any awards for looks, but you're flying it from inside the cockpit. ...Also, the Sonex has aerobatics capability.😁
@rigilchrist
@rigilchrist 5 лет назад
Wow! I'm disappointed not to fly myself to Friedrichshafen this year, so I appreciate your coverage, Paul! Sorry you had to suffer in a BA747 to get there...
@allanradcliffe6204
@allanradcliffe6204 5 лет назад
J'avais pas beaucoup d'argent, mais j'aime cet avion! Very good job of doing stress testing and designing products according to need and function. 914Turbo data should be very exciting. Merci beaucoup! Now going to buy lotto ticket, hoping....
@Mauleflyer100rv
@Mauleflyer100rv 5 лет назад
Amazing
@hugos6444
@hugos6444 5 лет назад
I like the less parts and carbon fiber concept; simplicity is safety from the manufacturing and maintenance standpoint. In the future I would like to see a larger aircraft with retractable wheels, each plane 2 to 4 passengers, more cargo space when seats are folded closed. Also, a more enclosed interior, perhaps even with an optional extended front that has a small turbo prop engine (yeah crazy). Small planes tend to be slow and have a short range; this is plane a big improvement, but the price is will stall most shoppers.
@TurkishKB
@TurkishKB 5 лет назад
This is awesome. Less complexity is the way to go.
@BareSphereMass
@BareSphereMass 5 лет назад
Perfect, now the only thing left is for the price to come down to about $70,000 and im in!
@rkan2
@rkan2 4 года назад
The engine is like 30k alone + install etc.. avionics maybe 10k..
@azcoyote007
@azcoyote007 2 года назад
Sold. I’ll take it.
@bjs2022
@bjs2022 5 лет назад
Good report, thanks (and thank you for the good body mike sound). Production tips: Some viewers may not be aware that RU-vid has an auto-generated English caption option and that might be a better way to view and understand this speaker’s presentation with the sound off. Put that in the notes. Another method: Record two presentations, one in the speaker’s native language and one in English. Post both with the note that the viewer can select auto generated captions or, if you have the budget and time, create open captions translated to English in both of his versions. This is a common practice in news reporting where the speaker has a heavy accent.
@AVweb
@AVweb 5 лет назад
Well, good suggestions. But here's my reality. When we cover a show like this with one person, we are spread so thin as to have no margin. In the course of four days, I shot seven videos, recorded six podcasts and wrote 12 news stories and two blogs. The problem with the auto captioning is that you have to manually correct it because it makes a lot of mistakes. I don't have a fix for this yes. I thought about doing the captioning after the show and may yet.
@ghislaindebusbecq8864
@ghislaindebusbecq8864 2 года назад
Or English speaking people thank non-English speaking people for speaking in their langage and make a little bit of effort to listen to what's being said ? Or English speaking people learn other langages to the point of fluent understanding ?
@skybum.com.au1
@skybum.com.au1 5 лет назад
This looks like a Dynaero MCR with a fat wing and a dumpy lower cowl
@AllenMichaelsVlogs
@AllenMichaelsVlogs 5 лет назад
I wonder why nobody has done it before?
@keepyourbilsteins
@keepyourbilsteins 3 года назад
I wonder if it was originally designed as a T tail. Interesting choice. Mitigating high AOA elevator stall?
@MAGApepe
@MAGApepe Год назад
T tails are so much better,,, out of the prop wash,,, out of ground effect when landing ,, less stone chips on the roll etc
@mehmetvural8095
@mehmetvural8095 2 года назад
first of all good day. Your potion plane is beautiful. I like it. I want information about technical technique and price. thanks.
@PelicanIslandLabs
@PelicanIslandLabs 5 лет назад
Cheaper to manufacture but wonder if it's possible to repair the wings or fuselage if either are damaged. This type of construction is like an egg............... very strong until it cracks. ;-)
@turboromy
@turboromy 5 лет назад
I bet insurance will be crazy high
@arthurleomcr
@arthurleomcr 5 лет назад
The guys from Grob made a good video showing how easy it is to repair carbon fiber ! player.vimeo.com/video/18019742
@surebrah
@surebrah 5 лет назад
l like this guy
@iheart707
@iheart707 5 лет назад
My main concern would be hangar rash - if its all one piece, would that total the aircraft?
@hahahano2796
@hahahano2796 5 лет назад
It could very likely total that part of the aircraft. Monolithic composite structures, unless designed properly, are incredibly weakened by even light damage (say a localize puncture). With proper procedures and materials the part that's damaged can be repaired to near-new strength with some weight penalty but it isn't as simple as replacing rivets. What sort of damage tolerance, repair procedures, and the legacy of both are a few of the first things I would be asking.
@arthurleomcr
@arthurleomcr 5 лет назад
The guys from Grob made a good video showing how easy it is to repair carbon fiber ! player.vimeo.com/video/18019742
@sailsailsailsailsail
@sailsailsailsailsail 5 лет назад
That’s my big concern! What happens when you take a bird to the wing. On most airplanes the structure forward of the spar is secondary and acts as an aero fairing. On this that is load bearing structure!
@CrossWindsPat
@CrossWindsPat 5 лет назад
@@hahahano2796 But it is pre preg carbon fiber. Gonna be tough to damage that.
@everbetter8590
@everbetter8590 4 года назад
headphones warning: video starts with a loud hammer impact at 0:16
@sailsailsailsailsail
@sailsailsailsailsail 5 лет назад
What’s the damage tolerance when the wing takes a bird or some careless owners dents the wing?
@CrossWindsPat
@CrossWindsPat 5 лет назад
Its pre preg carbon fiber so it wouldn't even notice a bird.
@Andym8910
@Andym8910 5 лет назад
Great idea to reduce cost, definitely a market there. Always questioned why you would spend all that money on a new (boring) aircraft when you can buy an old, interesting plane with money to spare.
@allanradcliffe6204
@allanradcliffe6204 5 лет назад
Eye of the beholder! To each their own.
@eatmyjetfuel4998
@eatmyjetfuel4998 5 лет назад
How do you repair the wing to the same it was before if it is just one piece??
@arthurleomcr
@arthurleomcr 5 лет назад
The guys from Grob made a good video showing how easy it is to repair carbon fiber ! player.vimeo.com/video/18019742
@ivanwain
@ivanwain 3 года назад
What about the roll-over protection for the pilots?
@MAGApepe
@MAGApepe Год назад
if anyone lands inverted in any plane they are dead
@NicholasLittlejohn
@NicholasLittlejohn 5 лет назад
Great to see more modern electric and lead free planes! 🤓
@ChuloGordo82
@ChuloGordo82 5 лет назад
6 figures for a aircraft just bigger than a fiat 500?
@47EZ_DRIVER
@47EZ_DRIVER 5 лет назад
size =/= cost
@UncleKennysPlace
@UncleKennysPlace 5 лет назад
@@47EZ_DRIVER Yep. Or that silly diamonds and rubies would be pennies.
@tlj3399
@tlj3399 4 года назад
The motor and avionics alone are about 100 grand. For a factory built plane to cost less than 200 grand at this level is a huge leap forward. A Van’s kit will set you back this much plus you have about 1600 hours of work to do just to get a plane that’s at this level of quality. It gets worse when you have to have it worked on because most pilots aren’t allowed to even change their own oil in a plane so they have no choice but to shell out about 1600 bucks for 100 bucks worth of work.
@lemonator8813
@lemonator8813 4 года назад
@@tlj3399 "Of the 33 or so listed preventative maintenance tasks, items 6 and 23 permit aircraft owners who possess at least a private pilots certificate or higher to change the oil and the filter (or to service the oil screen) in a certificated aircraft of which they are the owner" AVWeb.com
@fazole
@fazole 5 лет назад
How easy is it to fix damage to the wing?
@BLAMBERRY
@BLAMBERRY 5 лет назад
fazole just 3D print a new one
@arthurleomcr
@arthurleomcr 5 лет назад
The guys from Grob made a good video showing how easy it is to repair carbon fiber ! player.vimeo.com/video/18019742
@CrossWindsPat
@CrossWindsPat 5 лет назад
Keep in mind that a pre preg carbon fiber wing should be a lot tougher than a metal wing.
@aC-ex6kz
@aC-ex6kz 3 года назад
very easy : 150000 + vat and you will get a spare rotax 912is !
@kazansky22
@kazansky22 2 года назад
150,000..... Is it "certified" for use in the US?
@maxwellspeedwell2585
@maxwellspeedwell2585 3 года назад
Are there subtitles in English?
@MAGApepe
@MAGApepe Год назад
nice,,,, too bad the price has doubled to 400k for the ifr model
@benjwgarner
@benjwgarner 3 года назад
The high price of airplanes is not an issue of manufacturing technology so much as it is an issue of low volume, frivolous lawsuits, and insurance against those lawsuits.
@DanFrederiksen
@DanFrederiksen 3 года назад
They claim it's certified in Europe now. Only the 912 version is available so far. But one would imagine the 915 version should be easy then. Of course they will price it too high because they are douches (french word for shower :) but otherwise it could be a significant killer in certified GA. Hopefully well under Diamond, Cirrus and Cessna. Only Diamond has a 2 seater and that's under 200k$. So the price actually has to be low. Diamond DA20 is surprisingly a decent plane. High speed with only 120horses. They should really make a version with the 915.
@terryboyer1342
@terryboyer1342 5 лет назад
The canopy looks great for visibility but wouldn't it bake you on a hot sunny day?
@DrewLSsix
@DrewLSsix 5 лет назад
Do what everyone does, get some screens from Amazon and fly the plane.
@zmanmd1641
@zmanmd1641 5 лет назад
G limits and gust tolerance at max gross? A Carbon fiber tube is very stiff, but bend it slightly under load it fails catastrophically. A parachute may be a good option for this plane.
@Walterwaltraud
@Walterwaltraud 5 лет назад
It has BRS and loads are asspecified in CS 23.
@yodaiam1000
@yodaiam1000 5 лет назад
Looks like very similar pricing to other LSAs. The savings from the innovation don't appear to be reflected in the price.
@adamt7667
@adamt7667 5 лет назад
It's CS23 certified, which I assume means they'll have IFR certification as well, all for an LSA price,.
@yodaiam1000
@yodaiam1000 5 лет назад
@@adamt7667 I was unfamiliar with the CS23 certification. I just looked it up, so I am no expert. But it looks like a series of listed design requirement documents/standards for everything related to small plane design. It could be that there are IFR requirements in there as well. Some of the LSAs are IFR capable (such as the RV 12) but not permitted into IMC (or at least that is my understanding). It looks like from the specifications, they could be aiming for the LSA market. In any case, it is a nice looking AC and I would be interested in seeing the manufacturer's intent with the North American market. Even the cruise number is 130kts. Less slippery looking planes with a Rotax 912is have a cruise of 130kts which I understand is the LSA limit. The weight is interesting as well. It could be an LSA with a higher than average payload capacity.
@adamt7667
@adamt7667 5 лет назад
@@yodaiam1000 Yeah, I think CS23 is our European standard, maybe equivalent to Part 23 in the US? In any case, it puts it in the same category as legacy trainers like Cessnas or Pipers. I suppose in many respects it's a faster, heavier LSA, but I think it would be an impressive aircraft if they meet the target price.
@maximepawlak95
@maximepawlak95 5 лет назад
Adam Taylor you’re right. The CS-23 in Europe is the equivalent of FAR-23 in the US. Payload increase, IFR, acceptance around the world... There are many advantages of going for CS-23.
@occasionalenthusiastrobjon5066
I built many model aircraft on this principle... The light aircraft industry has been dominated by out of date American metal designs for too long... The europa was the turning point in design long may it live with electric propulsion
@quinnjim
@quinnjim 5 лет назад
Subtitles, please.
@captarmour
@captarmour 5 лет назад
Where is the fuel tank?
@maximepawlak95
@maximepawlak95 5 лет назад
captarmour the 110L fuel tank is in the central section of the wing, under the cockpit.
@captarmour
@captarmour 5 лет назад
@@maximepawlak95 thanks. Is it built into the wing as a permanent part of the wing or can it be removed?
@maximepawlak95
@maximepawlak95 5 лет назад
captarmour It can be removed. Look at 2:40, you’ll see a sample of the fuel tank. The foam is here to limit tossing and to protect from explosion in case of crash.
@NicholasLittlejohn
@NicholasLittlejohn 5 лет назад
Electric is much more exciting!
@Herr_Jehmineh
@Herr_Jehmineh 5 лет назад
The wing is one single piss
@lometatron357
@lometatron357 4 года назад
5 ounce
@TheDetroitSlayer
@TheDetroitSlayer 5 лет назад
Cheaper to manufacture. Still a rich mans plane.
@brandonb417
@brandonb417 5 лет назад
True, but what it does is drive down the market costs of other comparable airplanes. While it sucks for sellers to lose value in their planes, its good for the buyers. After a while, everyone will be better off.
@TheDetroitSlayer
@TheDetroitSlayer 5 лет назад
@@brandonb417 That's if these planes make it big enough to become competition. GA is so expensive and I don't see a whole lot of new blood walking through the door to keep it going. I see a bunch of old, wealthy men that are holding a whole industry back from allowing progress.
@myotherusername9224
@myotherusername9224 5 лет назад
@@TheDetroitSlayer " old, wealthy men that are holding a whole industry back " specifically who, and how are they doing that ?
@CrossWindsPat
@CrossWindsPat 5 лет назад
@@myotherusername9224 Its simple. Since all the money is held by a few up top, the markets cater to their needs. So they spend time innovating super high end tech instead of innovating mid range tech for the masses. Look at the super car industry, its on fire with multi million dollar cars that sell out instantly.
@AndyRRR0791
@AndyRRR0791 5 лет назад
A single fuel tank? Is that one with or without a hole in in...?
@TristanMorrow
@TristanMorrow 5 лет назад
"First time that this has been done in aviation," not. Are these guys not aware of Scaled Composites? -or am I just imagining that Rutan's company has done stressed-skin, foam-filled composite planes?
@PaulAnthonyDuttonUk
@PaulAnthonyDuttonUk 5 лет назад
Interesting, yet is their target market a volume orientated space? Don't think so therefore I am not sure they can sell enough units to maintain their price point and will quickly end up becoming a boutique manufacturer of luxury goods as are most of their competitors. There in lays their Achilles heel because their up front manufacturing model can not lend itself to the production approach of "engineer to order" such that we see with Bristell. Elixir's profit return will be 100 units sold and not 5 if you get my drift and unless the marketing is spot on they will find it very hard to adapt if forecasts are not met because their eggs are all in one basket called an expensive mould which can not be refashioned . Icon A5 thought they could produce a model T for the light sport market as well yet it become morphed from a peoples plane to a rich peoples plane simply to satisfy investors expectations of getting a return this side of the next millennium. Low price points require high volumes and to my eyes their simply is not enough people to sell to before the company would have to refinance the dream.
@PaulAnthonyDuttonUk
@PaulAnthonyDuttonUk 5 лет назад
@@NANA-cy7hd : That would be the plug yet a laid up mould is a substantial investment. This is an injection mould made from multi layered carbon. www.c3technologies.fr/first-moulds-for-elixir-aircraft/
@billr8667
@billr8667 5 лет назад
So why not simplify the engine choice while simplifying the airframe? UL (and probably others) offer engines that are a LOT less complex than the air and liquid cooled Rotax. I uderstand that Rotax is powering many small aircraft these days, but the complexity of speed reduction, liquid cooling with all of the extra tubes, hoses, etc, would favor choosing a simpler direct drive, fuel injected engine.
@PistonAvatarGuy
@PistonAvatarGuy 5 лет назад
The ULPower engines aren't certified, they can only be sold for use in experimental aircraft. Certification adds a huge amount of cost to an engine. Air-cooled engines are actually more expensive to build than fully liquid-cooled engines, because liquid-cooled engines have fewer parts and because the parts for liquid-cooled engines are simpler to make. Direct-drive engines are usually heavier than geared engines and the reduction in propeller RPM that comes with a geared engine significantly reduces propeller noise. Note that the ULPower engines drive their props at a very high RPM.
@aesma2522
@aesma2522 5 лет назад
If you don't need certified engines you can buy the same Rotax engines for much cheaper. Rotax sells lots of engines, personally that inspires confidence, compared to flying with an unknown engine.
@PistonAvatarGuy
@PistonAvatarGuy 5 лет назад
I don't understand why so many people are obsessing over price in the comments of these videos, you can't just magically reduce the price of something that's as inherently complex to design and build as an aircraft. The only way to make flying popular again is to start paying people well, just like they were for a couple of decades following WW2. The only way to make that possible is to start taxing the ever-living s-t out of the wealthy, like we did following WW2.
@iamaerix
@iamaerix 5 лет назад
These aircraft aren't about flying for money. They are about flying for recreation and personal use. People in general aviation are looking for newer aircraft that aren't based on 40+ year old designs that cost $300,000 because that excludes a huge potential market of aircraft buyers. Not everyone is ok about buying a potentially dodgy Cherokee or 172 for $40,000 that's VFR only and a half broken King radio.
@PistonAvatarGuy
@PistonAvatarGuy 5 лет назад
@@iamaerix But they're not going to be ok with buying some POS that's built so cheaply that it's unsafe. My point is that the problem isn't the cost of the aircraft, it's that people aren't being paid enough to be able to buy them. During the heyday of GA, working class people were being paid much better than they are today.
@timduncan8450
@timduncan8450 5 лет назад
idontcare80 Welcome to the global community. I don’t like it altogether either, but I don’t think going back to post WWII is the way. Meaning Pre-industrial & war torn Asia on one side, then bombarded out Europe on the other. It was not tax policy, read some history, we had the only industrial economy left. Bloated union contracts and then Globalization is what killed US working class affluence and yes it sucks to complete with third world wages. We need better trade deals, more private investment and lower regulations to improve wages again.... oh wait That’s what’s happening....
@PistonAvatarGuy
@PistonAvatarGuy 5 лет назад
@@timduncan8450 A) I never said that we should start some kind of war and destroy other countries in order to produce prosperity in the US. B) What made the US capable of the great things that it accomplished in the decades following WW2 was extremely high tax rates on the rich. At no point in human history has extreme wealth inequality produced a prosperous nation, and it certainly isn't happening now.
@PistonAvatarGuy
@PistonAvatarGuy 5 лет назад
@@timduncan8450 And to be a little more specific: When the working class is being paid well, they're able to buy the products that other American workers produce and that's what drives a healthy economy, even Henry Ford understood that.
@roycampbell3433
@roycampbell3433 2 года назад
Electric motor would be cool.
@iflystuff1
@iflystuff1 5 лет назад
Now when the fuel truck driver dents your wing your airplane is totaled
@MrLunithy
@MrLunithy 5 лет назад
nah.....
@DrewLSsix
@DrewLSsix 5 лет назад
You are pretty clueless.
@saratogapilot6100
@saratogapilot6100 5 лет назад
That would be my worry as well. I have had aluminum panels replaced on two different aircraft due to hangar accidents. It was reasonably cheap. My mechanic was even able to get a near-perfect match to the paint (by using an automotive paint specialist). I would need to completely understand how repairs are made, if they can be made.
@arthurleomcr
@arthurleomcr 5 лет назад
The guys from Grob made a good video showing how easy it is to repair carbon fiber ! player.vimeo.com/video/18019742
@jonthepilot6924
@jonthepilot6924 5 лет назад
Yeah, that one piece wing might mean some hangar rash could equal having to replace that whole wing. I would really like to know if damage to the airplane is reparable.
@nonfam4594
@nonfam4594 5 лет назад
Now make it electric !! :)
@rkan2
@rkan2 4 года назад
100kg batteries doesn't go too far.
@dirtcop11
@dirtcop11 Год назад
I am not sure that this will have a long life. A foam core gives me pause. No spar also makes me suspicious.
@MAGApepe
@MAGApepe Год назад
think the wings where tested to hold 15 tons on top of them
@Secretlyanothername
@Secretlyanothername 5 лет назад
They should do an electric modification.
@BLAMBERRY
@BLAMBERRY 5 лет назад
Still way too expensive for a two seater.
@arthurleomcr
@arthurleomcr 5 лет назад
FAR 23
@alphajet2145
@alphajet2145 5 лет назад
Tecnam P2002 is 110,000€, has not that payload to range capacity and is not IFR certified. So, not really.
@saneblane
@saneblane 5 лет назад
Ellipse spirit is about 90K, and it looks better too. This price is way too high
@alphajet2145
@alphajet2145 5 лет назад
@@saneblane Ellipse Spirit is an EASA UL/FAA LSA (non-certified) aircraft. Which means it's only Day VFR compliant and in the US it's limited to 120kts. Compare it to any 2-seater CS-23 compliant aircraft like the Pipistrel Virus SW 121 which is 150,000€ VAT Free & can't be IFR-certified ...
@NicholasLittlejohn
@NicholasLittlejohn 5 лет назад
I'd go LSA
@DanFrederiksen
@DanFrederiksen Год назад
I was googling a little for past states of the Elixir, now 2022 and I note that the prices have doubled since this 2019 video. So much for cost reduction as their core premise. It became what can we get away with in the context of the other overpriced poor selection of fully certified planes. 300 and 400k$ for an LSA/UL. Difficult to justify as cost reduced.
@realitycheck3363
@realitycheck3363 4 года назад
Yea, I don't speak french. What did he say about my grandmother?
@tlj3399
@tlj3399 4 года назад
Adding a spar would be extremely easy and still not interfere with their monocoque design. Remove the leading edge after cutting the airfoil, lay up a 6 ply prepeg carbon fiber spar, cut it then put the airfoil back into a mold and do everything they already do. Carbon fiber is extremely rigid and pretty strong but S glass is stronger and only flexes a bit more. Not sure if I want to trust this design under heavy load in just carbon fiber with no spar. Those formula 1 planes he talks about all use a combination of both carbon fiber and S glass as well as all having a spare.
@DanFrederiksen
@DanFrederiksen 5 лет назад
Very nice to optimize but I remark that the price they land on is like all the others. So what good is it.... A VL3 Evolution is a fast long range bird that starts around 140k euro iirc. And getting rid of Rotax is another needed optimization. Particularly the 915 is bizarrely priced at 39k$? A Nissan Versa sedan starts at 12k for the entire car including a 1.6L 16valve 109 horse engine that of course has computer mapped fuel injection because it's not from 1950.
@maximepawlak95
@maximepawlak95 5 лет назад
A VL3 is not CS-23 or FAR-23 certified. The use is not the same. VL3’s are targeting private pilots for travel, the Elixir is here to help flight schools face the need for pilot training. Similar cost, different use.
@andymckee53
@andymckee53 5 лет назад
search for accident reports of the VL3. It seems to kill an awful lot of pilots. It has some nasty spin characteristics. No good as a trainer and questionable safety.
@alphajet2145
@alphajet2145 5 лет назад
Moreover the Elixir will be IFR certified (which the VL3 isn't due to its UL certification) & it only has hundreds components.
@DanFrederiksen
@DanFrederiksen 5 лет назад
@@andymckee53 Your petty characterization aside, I looked at around 10 and the last one summed them up pretty well: "Contributing factor(s): 1 Exceeding the design envelope of the aircraft. 2 Poor airmanship. " The plane can also have a chute which they failed to apply after high bank stall spins. A lean fast plane can temp pilots beyond ability. If you fly a plane briskly you better know how to fly and the plane. None of the reports that I skimmed attributed aircraft failure. Which makes me unconcerned about the aircraft.
@yodez3
@yodez3 5 лет назад
Dan Frederiksen I’ve tried to explain to my non-aviator friends why engine rebuilds cost so much. I have to admit that I come up short of a good explanation.
@spiro5327
@spiro5327 5 лет назад
The cheapest model is 274k in my country's money. Lets face it, their will never be an affordable aircraft it just isn't possible no matter how cheaply it can be produced
@maximepawlak95
@maximepawlak95 5 лет назад
It’s not only about the price tag. The TCO are way lower than other CS-23 or FAR-23 aircraft, like the “new” PA-28 😊
@DrewLSsix
@DrewLSsix 5 лет назад
Spiro First of all, you need to stop thinking that any suitable aircraft must be a top tier flying hot rod. That’s like saying you can’t afford to drive because you only ever look at loaded Lamborghinis. But a used Chevy and get to driving, buy or build a plane that’s something less than the very best and get to flying. If the idea of cruising at 60 knots behind less than a hundred HP seems implausible to you I would suggest that you are less interested in flying than you are in complaining.
@sugershakify
@sugershakify 5 лет назад
Um, Burt Rutan was doing this 40+ years ago with solid foam core wings with a glass skin.
@cluelessbeekeeping1322
@cluelessbeekeeping1322 5 лет назад
Uhm, this is not a homebuilt, uhm.
@DrewLSsix
@DrewLSsix 5 лет назад
Shows what you know, Rutan pioneered MOLDLESS construction, this is MOLDED construction. Fundamentally different.
@sugershakify
@sugershakify 5 лет назад
@@DrewLSsix Molded or moldless the structural idea of a sparless /ribless solid foam core structure is the exact same. This isn't some ground breaking idea. Shows you're just a ego-jack hole
@sugershakify
@sugershakify 5 лет назад
@@cluelessbeekeeping1322 , Um, never said it was ...
@evangatehouse5650
@evangatehouse5650 4 года назад
Does the wing have a foam core? Sounds like a 2 piece mold with internal pressure to VAC bag the skins into the mold.
@mnulfateh
@mnulfateh 5 лет назад
A lot more can be done for five to sex people and it they takes up to 10 people, it will make wonders.
@jimmiller5600
@jimmiller5600 4 года назад
"should us Automotive Industry practices to build $30,000 planes". Sigh. Anybody who buys that argument needs to return to high school and apologize to their math teacher. Auto volumes are in the 100,000's. Per Year.
@MAGApepe
@MAGApepe Год назад
add a couple of 00 :))
@Rehanansari-ty3bz
@Rehanansari-ty3bz 5 лет назад
sir I want air line job
@experimental_av
@experimental_av 5 лет назад
Not a fan of the car like instrument panel. Looks cheap
@experimental_av
@experimental_av 5 лет назад
Count Spatula yeah would think so. Same with the Icon, sexy plane outside and then this contraption of a 70s car dashboard.
@DrewLSsix
@DrewLSsix 5 лет назад
Jan Detlefsen And here is the single biggest issue with trying to bring the cost of aviation down, people don’t want to fly cheap no matter what they claim. When they buy they option out the plane, they demand high performance in every field, they want the best avionics etc. Someone proposes an affordable machine and it’s instantly torn apart for every feature that makes it relatively affordable.
@experimental_av
@experimental_av 5 лет назад
@@DrewLSsix i don't see how that panel with the storage space is any cheeper than a flat one. The rest of the plane looks great and some awesome ideas for cost saving.
@BrianOgilvie79
@BrianOgilvie79 5 лет назад
All good until delamination occurs or damage to a leading edge. The whole structure would require a specialized composite shop to do the work. Not sure i like french cars, not sure i like french frys.....this plane is slick looking and that's about it
@arthurleomcr
@arthurleomcr 5 лет назад
The guys from Grob made a good video showing how easy it is to repair carbon fiber ! player.vimeo.com/video/18019742
@klixtrio7760
@klixtrio7760 5 лет назад
Good point, old cessnas always get beat up by fod...Wonder how that will hold up against carbon fiber. Also theres no way to see the structural integrity of the wing?
@DrewLSsix
@DrewLSsix 5 лет назад
KlixTrio you could look it up and teach your self, but why not make assumptions and poor judgements 🤷‍♂️
@Walterwaltraud
@Walterwaltraud 5 лет назад
Not claiming to be the total expert, but how do you repair a C350 Corvalis? And how much beating do racing yachts endure in their lifetime?
@DarrylZubot
@DarrylZubot 5 лет назад
This is not revolutionary in pricing. I bought a pipistrel for cheaper then this
@vdubs1112
@vdubs1112 5 лет назад
A pipistrel doesn't cruise at 170 kts...
@maximepawlak95
@maximepawlak95 5 лет назад
Pipistrels are designed and built in Eastern Europe. This is where their low prices are coming from. The Elixir is 100% from France, so considering labour cost here it's a pretty good pricing for a CS-23/FAR-23 aircraft.
@Markozmajar
@Markozmajar 2 года назад
Hah. Slovenians and Franchies, we probably all use fibers and resins from China. Nothing is 100% theese days.
@maxwellspeedwell2585
@maxwellspeedwell2585 3 года назад
They do use automotive technology. They do only cost $30,000. Do the math: airframe, engine, avionics, assembly cost: $ 30,000.00 Profit: $ 0.00 Lawyers & other legal expenses: $270,000.00 total cost to the end user: $300,000.00 Sheesh.... What was so hard about that? Simple math.
@DavidReese2ndA
@DavidReese2ndA 5 лет назад
Ugly airship...
@evrik78
@evrik78 5 лет назад
I think that French shall be banned from speaking English.
@frenchie9103
@frenchie9103 5 лет назад
It would be interesting to hear you speaking French
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