Key points: Just make tech nicer to be in for everyone. Stop forcing an artificial gender ratio, a lot of girls like tech too, it'll happen on its own when the field is actually nice to work in. Pay people a living wage, it should be fine to work in all sorts of fields. Being a nurse or teacher are amazing respectable jobs.
The problem is more or less that the market sets the game... If it's less productive to be nicer, the company needs other incentives or leadership that are willing to take the hit... But this is either unlikely or then you run into the issue of if they can maintain it... Eventually they might retire or something... Or maybe the stockholders might pressure them to make more profit until they break... Who knows?... And a lot comes down to what she means as making it nicer... An industry that's competitive likely thrives in competition... If it's just a case of making people in the industry less rude, that can probably be done relatively easily, but you know? The maternity issue disrupting a career is tough... But it's also generally the cost of choosing to have kids too... More could probably be done, but it's likely not an issue that can be done away with completely... In terms of stop forcing artificial gender ratios, I very much agree... I highly doubt that making the fields nicer to work in will necessarily have a huge effect on the ratio though... I think there are still some disparities of interests between males and females, generally speaking... Not to say a woman couldn't be top in a field particularly favoured by males, there will always be potential exceptions, and maybe the ratio could still get more even, but yeah... While there is probably some effect based on how society is, it seems that usually the easier life is, the more freedom is given, men and women still often naturally go for more traditional gender related roles... Given that being an engineer or similar is going to take a fair amount of schooling, it's got to be something that the person is relatively committed to in order to get a job in that field too... It's not something you likely get into on a whim (although it's technically possible)... You'd have a better chance at evening the ratio by excluding men, but you'd have to exclude a lot of men and that might cause more issues than it does improve things... ... And yeah... Wages are determined by availability of workers and competition for them from other companies... How profitable they are is a big factor... How much you can pay nurses will depend on how much money a hospital can make, whether through fees or subsidies or whatever, not on how hard they work... Tech often pays more because it is in demand and they can charge more for their products/services... Supply and demand... Not that there aren't ways to tackle these issues, to varying degrees... But I don't know... It would be nice if we could even things out, but I'm not sure it's realistic... It may require major trade-offs... It may put unwanted pressures on people to push them into fields they aren't that interested in... Ah well...
@@MyNameIsBucket The idea that bad people are caused by culture is a joke. It's a factor but it's not close to the most important one. Men don't just become molesters when they're around other men. There is 50 different things going on
My sister and I work in similar jobs, both software developers, just she is in ML, and I am in garden variety web backend. She said something similar, how she hates the "Women in tech" thing, because it makes it seem like she is there because she is a woman, and not because she is good. She is way smarter than me, no doubt about that, so that's not true at all, but it's what the "Women in tech" movement makes women feel like.
Is it an improvement over the old fashioned "women in the kitchen" movement? Where straight white men only hire straight white men because they're straight white men? Because it's easy to forget how recently it used to be that way.
In other words, while equality initiatives are helpful, we need to solve the underlying material conditionsif we want to truly increase representation in these fields. Things like paid maternity leave, better healthcare (or ideally universal healthcare), and better wages would probably do a lot to reduce the gender gap in these, and many other professions. Welcome home, Comrade Ellie! 🫡
A.I. ain't replacing programming. Automation has historically been very efficient at replacing repetitive, physical, manual labor, but thus far has not proven to be nearly as competent at any task that requires any sort of imagination or ingenuity. Which is unsurprising given that what we call A.I. right now is not actually "A.I." by the truest sense of the word. It cannot think on its own nor create new things, as it is based on pre-existing data and rules.
Ellie's description of capitalism is accurate, but what she seems to not understand is that you can increase productivity with automation *and* significantly downsize your workforce simultaneously. These two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Hire based on talent, integrity, potential and that's it. When I was a welder, there were many women who thought they could do it but ended up quitting and I don't blame them. I often worked 12 hr days in either scorching heat or frigid cold and would spend 8 months living out of motels. When I did IT during the pandemic, I worked around 14 hrs a day, 4 days a week out of my apartment. I didn't work for a company, I just did IT and sourced part/laptops/PCs for the nearly 700 people that lived in our complex. Sure I made nearly 60k for 2 years out of my apartment but it was incredibly stressful and draining. Some jobs are easier for men and others for women. Some people just aren't meant for a certain profession and we need to be able to say as such.
@@MyNameIsBucket Women are generally better at interpersonal-type jobs which don't pay as well because they don't scale as well. If I write a program that I can sell to 10 million people vs. a female nurse caring for a much smaller number of people, I bring a [probably] smaller benefit to a much larger amount of people. I'm going to assume that your opinion is that jobs that are more suited to women are just paid less. My counter would be that companies that are tasked with jobs that men are better at, tend to be able to generate more money, which means there's more money to go around and the employees are seen as more valuable. This conversation is absurdly complicated and can't be broken down to people just being paid less
@@SuperHagrids Programming is not a field that men are better at Might I add that the first programmer was a woman - Ada lovelace , she was the first person to see that computers had a greater purpose than just calculations Its just a field where women are pushed out of .
@@mk_gamíng0609 My claim shouldn’t have been that men are better at it, I apologise for the wording there. My claim would be that women aren’t as interested in it. I don’t believe that women have been pushed out of it. Did you know that on average, women in high school score slightly higher than men in STEM subjects but are less likely to go into a STEM career? Did you also know that the majority of the highest performing accountants and lawyers are men? We believe that the reason for this is also preference. On average, men are more competitive than women [Likely due to increased testosterone] and this makes them do things that don’t necessarily benefit them, just so they can be better than everyone. Women are more likely to prioritise other things, particularly raising a family as they age. None of this is bad or is used to claim that either men or women are superior. We’re just different and we can make things better for everyone once we truly acknowledge it
Correct most efforts like education and diversity is just as a means to provide a cheap labor pool for corpos to draw from. They are cheap because taxes are spent to create this labour pool.
Well this is where knowing the word "Intersectionality" is useful as the same reasons tech sucks to work in, as in the lack of worker protections and assumptions of privileges make it harder for women to participate in. Not only is there gendered discrimination but also classism, racism, and ableism which cause problems, as pregnancy is a temporary disability.
No, I completely disagree. Programming should be a meritocracy. I do not deserve to be in programming because I did not work as much as someone else. I have my degree in IT. I shouldnt get in there just because I have a degree. You do not need a degree to work in IT. You do not need to go to Uni to be a programmer. I absolutely hate and disagree with catering to a group just to have that type of people in your group. The workplace feels best only when you work with the best.
Where I'm from you're only entitled to a certain wage class if you have a degree. The better the degree the higher your entry pay is. Also, why do you hate "catering to a specific group of people"? Where's the harm in making an IT workplace more attractive to women? most IT firms are probably pure sausage fests, and data has shown time and time again that diversity in the workplace increases productivity and creative output. Basically what you're saying is, you're an old stinker who is allergic to change and you miss the old days.
@@gralha_ What she is saying, basically, is that she belived girls do not choose to program because the work place is hostile, being dominated heavily by men and the work itself presents as intimidating. She tried to alleviate and encourage. As time gone by she finally understood that the issue is not guys, not the workplace but what woman simply prefer something else and she is sad that she is in the minority among girls that likes tech stuff. She resents but likes the field at the same time. She does not have an issue with guys but prefers to be surrounded by girls. What I completely disagree with is pursuing an activist persona in encouraging woman into IT, or tech, generally. She does not realize that the only way to achieve that is to have girls spend more time with guys from childhood to adulthood. Girls that spend time with guys turn tomboy and prefer what guys prefer. However, in the current climate that is not possible because of feminism and whoever irresponsable dumb idiots that wants men and women divided. You will have a very low chance to get women to like tech stuff if you tell them that men opressed them or that we are their enemy. She does not see that. She went full character development within a few minutes realizing that what she said at the start happens because of what she said at the end. My sister spent time with me. Spent time alot with my father. She prefers the company of guys and she likes tech stuff and what you would see guys like because she adopted and found our hobbies fun. You cannot tell someone through a campaign to do this or that. Finally, what I disagree with is that all this promoting nonsense and DEI is harming the industry as a whole, gals and guys because the hiring practices based on those standards create a stigma where if a woman is hired it is assumed that she will be deadweight. So, I repeat, the only way to get more women into typically male jobs is to encourage women to fraternize with guys, spend time with them through their childhood. It is the most effective and efficient way. Also, yes, USA should take example from Europe on how to treat employees because husband and wife have paid paternal/maternal leave and it is illegal to fire either of them because of it. You would solve aloooot of things that way.
@@Joromonni If you want context, it is simple. The tech industry, programming specifically, is plagued by DEI hiring practices. Corporate hiring woman and other races more just to have them and say they are diverse. I know personally and from first hand that these hires are deadweight. They do not know much, far less than me, and I come from a highschool that is for civil engineers, and somehow they have the same degree as me but know far far less. Dont know basic things but they are paid and I and others like me have to babysit them. Most of them end up quitting because there is too much information to memorize and learn. Yes, most of them are woman but the 1 or 2 guys we get, too are worse because they did not learn programming themselves they simply graduated Uni for IT and got in. I learned for my IT diploma for more money, I taught myself programming before that, long before.
