Elo World REDUX: Scientifically Ranking the Pokémon Red Trainers AGAIN - Level 50 AI Tournament

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In this video, I fix some of the issues with my original "Ranking the Pokémon Red Trainers" video, and run a brand new tournament with those changes. Most notably, I flatten all the Pokémon to level 50, the way competitive Pokémon tournaments are run.
Some links that might be of interest:
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The original video: • Pokémon Red/Blue AI To...
The instructions on how to run battles from Hash IDs: (this was broken before, should be working now, grab the latest) github.com/jsettlem/elo_world...
Nic Dobson's blog post: nicidob.github.io/nba_elo/
It would be rude to steal @tom7's title again without linking his excellent video: • 30 Weird Chess Algorit...
My Twitter: / pimanrules
Music credits:
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Pokémon remixes by @DJMykah. I commissioned the "Hall of Fame" remix from them, and as you can hear, it turned out great. Check out their channel here: / djmykah
"Heartbeat" from "The Music of 3Blue1Brown" by Vincent Rubinetti. Licensed with permission. Check out the album here: vincerubinetti.bandcamp.com/a...
Convenient timestamps:
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0:00 Intro
2:11 The plan
2:52 Bug squashing
8:02 WONTFIX
11:03 Tournament enhancements
16:05 Elo system enhancements
18:33 How Elo works
24:11 Changes to orchestrating battles
26:13 Ranking of trainers
38:32 "Before we get to the top 16..."
39:30 Sweet 16
48:33 Grand finals
50:01 Trainers in game order
50:39 Frequently asked questions
52:12 Outro
Corrections:
15:27 - This process of fixing the moves went wrong for some trainers, specifically when they're in the enemy position, resulting in them actually having the moves they would have at level 50. This is what some people wanted anyway so I'm gonna try not to beat myself up over it (but uuuuugggghhhhh)
16:50 - That is so obviously not the sound ə makes. That's like the one IPA symbol everyone learns in elementary school. My excuse was that my brain was on total autopilot--I just copied the phonetic transcription of "hello," not realizing that "hello" is really pronounced more like "hullo" in most cases
33:17 - I say Wrap does "basically no damage." Of course, it's actually doing no damage because Gastly is Ghost type, but the effect still triggers because Gen I.
50:51 - Obviously I meant EVs instead of IVs

Игры

Опубликовано:

6 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 2,3 тыс.

@pimanrules 2 года назад

Since there's no way I'm making a follow-up to the follow-up, I'll use this pinned comment for mistakes and/or addendums: 15:27 - The biggest mistake in this video... this process of fixing the moves went wrong for some trainers, specifically when they're in the enemy position, resulting in them actually having the moves they would have at level 50. This is what some people wanted anyway so I'm gonna try not to beat myself up over it (but uuuuugggghhhhh) 16:50 - That is so obviously not the sound ə makes. That's like the one IPA symbol everyone learns in elementary school. My excuse was that my brain was on total autopilot--I just copied the phonetic transcription of "hello," not realizing that "hello" is really pronounced more like "hullo" in most cases 33:17 - I say Wrap does "basically no damage." Of course, it's actually doing no damage because Gastly is Ghost type, but the effect still triggers because Gen I. 50:51 - Obviously I meant EVs instead of IVs

@researchinbreeder 2 года назад

And by EVs I assume you mean stat exp, bc gen 1 :p (This comment is a joke, I love both videos)

@lykillcorreli6740 2 года назад

Clearly, Wrap is dealing emotional damage, hence why the opponent can't act during it~

@androsp9105 2 года назад

@@lykillcorreli6740 after playing blue kaizo, wrap, fire spin and clamp have left me emotionally scarred.

@BMeiome13 2 года назад

Repin this m8

@HalianTheProtogen 2 года назад

What about a Linux-native emulator such as SameBoy?

@YarnLalms711 2 года назад

“Hiker Number 3 partook in the 4th longest battle, his opponent was himself” that’s deep

@aprinnyonbreak1290 2 года назад

If I'm ever counting Hikers when I'm playing in the future, I'll remember to tell him to have a good day.

@clarktheavali3959 2 года назад

The Charizard Champion's Greatest win was against himself

@YarnLalms711 2 года назад

@@clarktheavali3959 he’s achieved enlightenment

@marvthebass 2 года назад

(Rocking back and forth in the corner, staring out into the void) yup, understandable

@snufkin8940 2 года назад

He took a hike of self-reflection and discovery

@Mikman360 2 года назад

Dang, Oak was slapping Blue in every round in the top 16. "You gonna learn today son." Until they hit Grand Finals, then Blue had his anime clarity moment and took it all. "Smell ya later pops." The mark of a true champion.

@danielsurvivor1372 2 года назад

Blue avenged his younger self and defeated Pops once and for all

@runalongnowm8 2 года назад

I imagined this in my head before even reading this comment

@ItsMeVolatility 2 года назад

This comment made me laugh, thank you

@El8MAGNATE Год назад

And still won't remember his name...

@susmongus3246 Год назад

and the best part is oak's Win in the first tournament was rigged because the rival won the most of all trainers and the venusaur champion being the best of all of them in the first tournament losing only 2 times and oak was still declared number one when the rival with the venusaur deserved the most and this hits even harder because the venusaur champion is the one who defeated oak

@tylerclark3872 2 года назад

Got to give a shoutout to Rocket #22 who managed to perfectly slot in at exactly #215 again. A true legend in sheer mediocrity.

@askoldir4538 2 года назад

You know it's a good video when the video about something scientifically accurate actually spends most of the time talking about methodology rather than results.

@jostafro4967 Год назад

I love this comment

@frownyclowny6955 Год назад

I love scientific video-papers. Normally it’s so boring to read scientific studies but when it’s read for me with fun visuals it becomes a more pleasant experiences

@hyhyd6135 Год назад

It's nice that it appeals to both audiences in that way

@WindsorMason 11 месяцев назад

This, very much this. It's important!

@JohnYoo39 7 месяцев назад

@@frownyclowny6955we need more papers in the form of videos

@sebasfabila7639 2 года назад

I’ve seen the code for this and totally understand if none of the other generations never get done.

@Selicre 2 года назад

There are disassemblies for almost all pokemon games. Doing this would be a matter of emulating the games partially (only the AI subroutines), which would also be orders of magnitude faster.

@profchaos91 2 года назад

i mean, i totally understand the reason why it could be REALLY time consuming, but tbf i'm still rooting for the GSC tournament. I just want more of this xD

@Sealed_Chamber 2 года назад

Maybe aliens could do it for us. It could be their gift to humanity.

@profchaos91 2 года назад

@@Sealed_Chamber i'd take that over aids cure tbh

@covereye5731 2 года назад

Well GEN2 can run on the same emulator, so it should only require modifications to the same code. As opposed to starting from scratch again. Still, I'm not surprised these changes took a year.

@cameronfreeman5592 2 года назад

"Smell ya later, pops," Blue says as he takes out his grandfather's last Pokémon with tears in his eyes.

@cellP8 2 года назад

@runalongnowm8 2 года назад

Well considering how OP his Alakazam was, I doubt he had tears

@RonTHEepic 2 года назад

Yeah "gramps"

@kazemizu 11 месяцев назад

Because he knew, he knew that if Oak lost a pokemon battle, that his heart would stop. It was the reason Oak stopped battle all those years ago and became a researcher.

@johnblankenhorn9730 2 года назад

It's so insane to me that SABRINA, mid-tier gym leader, is in the top 16 alongside a bunch of champs, elite 4s, and a victory road trainer. Psychic was so OP

@tesladrew2608 Год назад

Well Blaine and Giovanni were just really bad in red/blue

@Wynneception Год назад

It’s definitely reflective of the experience of playing against her and yes realising that she had no weakness since bug was effectively non existent as a counter

@theoutlander1411 Год назад

And the Juggler who also had a bunch of psychic pokemon

@vulapa Год назад

It's a combination of the Psychic-types being generally stronger in Gen 1 (see how the Psychic-type Jugglers do in the round Robin?), her AI being a bit smarter than the rest AND having options for a stall. No wonder she's often touted the real difficulty spike in the original game.

@CreamyPesto505 Год назад

@Elbow Drop Gaming No. Your team was Mewtwo, and a couple backup stab psychic users Incase anything went way too wrong.

@purplesam2609 2 года назад

I love how the rival changes clothes and poses throughout the game. I wish that level of detail carried on into the games after it

@Alb410 9 месяцев назад

They do? Hau and Hop do that.

@Justapikachu577 6 месяцев назад

Lillie and Hop do! Hop has so many unique battle animations depending on which it is, it's actually very charming. His league battles mimic Leon's animations but his non league ones have unique poses and throws

@jannik-x 2 года назад

Conclusion: - The second strongest gen 1 Pokémon is Venusaur because it won the most - The strongest gen 1 Pokémon is Bulbasaur, because it beat Venusaur

@plushytv5295 2 года назад

LMAO BULBASAUR SUPREMACY

@Saxton_Hoovy 2 года назад

Nah Charizard is #1

@Saxton_Hoovy 2 года назад

@@bigballoftape5343 Please look at the number 1 elo score team and its champion blue charizard team.

@xxscrublordxxx5652 2 года назад

@@Saxton_Hoovy Rock Throw go brr

@alejandro_rodriguez_99 2 года назад

@@Saxton_Hoovy that is because A) It is the only one without that awful Arcanine. B) Rhydon doesn't have a rock attack. C) Venusaur moveset sucks with 3 grass attacks and growth (not leech seed, toxic or sleep powder) , unlike blastoise that has blizzard and charizard that has fire spin and slash.

@raddgaming1052 2 года назад

I cried when Juggler lost he literally was seeded against the second worst matchup for him

@loulou3676 2 года назад

Some might say he... ... ... Dropped his balls.

@xmgaming2444 2 года назад

Truly the people's champ

@mastrorick 2 года назад

I liked when he disabled recover as a true stragtegist

@crowmaster9652 2 года назад

@@loulou3676 YES!!! YESS!!!! YESSS!!!

@doctorrussia 2 года назад

Seed rigging

@harley2938 2 года назад

By jumping into the tournament bracket, we missed out on hearing how their battles in the main tournament went. I'm especially curious about that juggler who made it in despite wasting half of their turns.

@drthvrdr 2 года назад

When he said what "seed" they were, that's their placement. So the juggler was #15 in the main tourney, and Charizard Champ was #1.

@harley2938 2 года назад

@@drthvrdr But I want to know why the Juggler did so well in the first place.

@RipperJack77 2 года назад

@@harley2938 Well he has 4 Psychic types which are all OP in Gen 1

@mayolicious69 2 года назад

@@RipperJack77 Also there are absolutely tons of poison trainers

@dankstank110 2 года назад

@@harley2938 most team rocket grunts have poison types nearly all bug catchers have poison types nearly every single grass type trainer is stuck with with odish line bellsprout line and bulbasaur which are part poison half the swimmers have tentacruel as their ace and most hikers only have 2-3 pokemons 1 of which is a fighting type also there are a lot of channelers with a single ghastly and the fisherman only carry magikarps with a single garidos bird catchers are fast but lack the moveset bikers only have poison types there aren't as many bulky water type users and nearly no electric type users aside from surge and there's about seven trainers that only use fighting types so it makes sense he made it to top 15 with only psychic types

@Quroe_ 2 года назад

The 3B1B segment had me laughing because of how much fidelity there is to his style. Well done on that joke.

@danielleanderson6371 Год назад

@@LF-cm5wm Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive.

@bengineer8 Год назад

It also had me highly amused.

@Erhannis 9 месяцев назад

That segment started and my parody senses started tingling, despite not recognizing the style

@martinus_mars 2 года назад

36:50 She lost against the first rival battle, but won against Lance....oh gen 1 AI, oh you...

@paulnewton2284 2 года назад

She basically just needed to beat Gyarados and Aerodactyl, since the Dragonair and Dragonite just spammed Agility and Barrier because _Psychic is good against Poison, right?_

@MrJonathanoscar 2 года назад

she is the ultimate i can defeat anyone and lose to anyone

@59hawks 2 года назад

Would have been funnier if it was champion with venusuar she won against

@AndrewBlechinger 2 года назад

@@paulnewton2284 The All Terrain Venomoth strikes again.

@TheBlueWizzrobe 2 года назад

Hilariously, she won through the exact same cheese tactics that she lost by. She is truly the most chaotic trainer in this whole list.

@albevanhanoy 2 года назад

"The All Magikarp strategy proves ineffective." I just love the way you say that so seriously.

@christopherfleetwood5252 2 года назад

It does make me wonder how an All Gyarados team would place.

@casoul993 2 года назад

me encountering sinnoh fisherman andrew with 6 magikarps all with dragon rage:😂

@N12015 2 года назад

@@casoul993 Or with a Budew with growth, that works as well.

@9Kualalumpur 2 года назад

I was really rooting for Juggler #2, he believed in himself and almost pulled it off

@17Domy97 2 года назад

You're definitely enter that category of RU-vidrs I define as: "I don't expect them to upload, but when a video is up its always a must watch" Great Job, you're making the nerd and Pokémon fan in me happy

@Vanessa_exe 2 года назад

Kinda proud that the 4 team Juggler in S Tier got so far, what an actual chad

@dayandere2669 2 года назад

psychic type is just strong in gen 1

@Forever_Rayne 2 года назад

The true underdog!

@cd7677 Год назад

Is like switching pokemon is an actual good idea huh

@frownyclowny6955 Год назад

@@cd7677jugglers tend to switch at random, but I imagine it helps in most cases, especially with a team full of psychic types

@kazemizu 11 месяцев назад

Bad tactics, but smart team building

@KoenvMeijel 2 года назад

a fun side effect is that this would *sort of* make a comprehensive list of how difficult a trainer is to battle for the player at that point in game, considering the player's level would generally be around the same as the opponent. very cool

@cinderkick2525 2 года назад

The only thing I would say is that the trainer can use better strategy though so some fights would be completely different for players rather than a limited AI. That and the fact that most teams focus on one type while a player would hopefully have variety so quite a bit of these rankings would just be type vs type while a trainer would sweep both types with a super-effective.

@Zackattackplayspokemon 2 года назад

Yeah. It obviously couldnt be all encompassing (there being a bunch of rock type and normal type teams would mean that the types good against those are able to get extra elo score due to having more beneficial matchups) but the data is interesting to look at. If this was gen 4 for instance, the rarity of fire types would help grass types out and might give water types less advantage

@caldw615 2 года назад

Some would probably still be easier or harder based on which Pokémon you have available. Brock and Misty are much harder for players who started with Charmander for example as there aren't many other Pokémon you can catch and train up to counter them to make up for Charmander being countered (Mankey and Pikachu are a bit rarer to catch and the Nido's don't learn double kick till a point you'd be a bit overleveled anyway)

@ShadTheSham 2 года назад

No definitely not, because you can have any evolution, stats, and anything else that could complicate the number of possibilities

@jackmahoney3783 2 года назад

Rest In Peace Juggler #2 you were so close to being the Champion.

@AgentBlizzaga 2 года назад

it is so cathartic seeing Vensaur rival as the strongest trainer. he was my final boss for my first ever pokemon game and it took way more tries than i wanna admit to beat him. all i'm gonna say is I'm glad a caught that Venomoth

@jordanandrews216 Год назад

Dang a venomoth killed him that must be a great memory did u nickname it

@LuwiigiMaster Год назад

My personal memory is that I beat Venusaur Champion with a Fissure.

@paulnewton2284 2 года назад

If anyone else was curious about the infamous Self-Destructing Rock Tunnel Hiker, he is Hiker #9, ranked at number 213 with a 1485 Elo score. You can see him at around 31:30.

@Toast_94 2 года назад

Nice find!

@mayolicious69 2 года назад

Presumably he just won most of the matchups with non-channeler, 2 pokemon or less trainers

@danielsurvivor1372 2 года назад

How the flip did that dude got such a good score with basically s*icide tactics?

@darkness74185 2 года назад

@@danielsurvivor1372 bigger party size and the fact that any pokemon not rock or ghost type pretty much eat shit when self destruct happens

@dayandere2669 2 года назад

@@darkness74185 Didn't that move also half defense when used until gen 5?

@henrymars6626 2 года назад

"I've got more ideas than motivation" is such a fucking mood widjuebfbg

@icarusmarioFAN 2 года назад

The motto of any and every artist

@QuesoCookies 2 года назад

Honestly, the fact that each trainer's team composition's difficulty level corresponds so well with the order you encounter them is really huge props to the design skill of the original creators of the game. It's nice to see videos that highlight their achievements other than just the financial success of the franchise in a game that is running on such constrained hardware and is so often panned for its abundant glitches and exploits. Making a game that is this good and that is still so beloved on Gameboy hardware before Pokemon was ever a "thing" with no existing fanbase to reassure its success despite its technical or design failures is a wonder that goes unappreciated.

@warj.3577 2 года назад

38:00 I love how the mention of Giovanni and Lorelai is enough to make the Bellsprout in the bottom-right corner finally faint.

@zacherytaylor 2 года назад

Real talk the like scrolling display of all the trainers when discussing the rankings is just phenomenal. It is so aesthetically pleasing and feels like I could just reach out and navigate it myself

@hyhyd6135 Год назад

Agreed

@NinjaLobsterStudios 11 месяцев назад

Honestly, with the music and the rankings going up it's definitely a transcendent experience

@anoyd1817 2 года назад

Half-baked idea for a (maybe) shorter video to make: Which AI can beat the Elite Four? Just match up trainers against the Elite 4 in order, if they lose they don't move on. Just do trainers that make sense, like the stronger Gym Leaders, Rivals, maybe a handful of randoms from Victory Road.

@ledlebrgr5380 2 года назад

What, you don't think Fisher#9 could beat the Elite 4?

@profchaos91 2 года назад

I love the idea/concept of using the stuff he already programmed to try different scenarios/challenges. I think we already have an answer tbh, since the data is all there. It's just a matter of cross referencing every loss of the E4 members and see which ai beat all 4 of them

@skibot9974 2 года назад

Cool idea! I hope he sees it

@MrJonathanoscar 2 года назад

The challenge for the AI is any trainer that abuses lances agility spamming dragons is going to also have to be strong enough to kill Lorelei's resting Dewgong

@parkerbradley2354 2 года назад

This. Any way he can find to recycle this for more content will be worth it because God damn he clearly put a shitload of effort into making this video

@xxxxxxxxPROxxxxxxxx 2 года назад

I like how even hyper genisues like this guy devotes a significant chunk of their lives to Pokemon just like the rest of us. You'd think with his brainpower and understanding of coding and advanced mathematics he wouldn't be entertained by a game meant for children, but nope he's just another dude smashing that A button.

@xRockLobster75x 2 года назад

We are all just another person smashing that A button on this blessed day

@raphaelcardoso7927 2 года назад

And I'm just another dude smashing the like button on the video

@GigaChadJecht 2 года назад

The last sentence made me die irl

@ryjelsum 2 года назад

doing stupid bullshit with smart bullshit is a good way to keep your skills sharp

@affegpus4195 Год назад

Is not much a matter of what he did was that hard or he is intelligent. I could have done this... But i would be bored of it midway and it would join my pile of unfinished stuff. Persistence is his real superpower. And it is more op than psychic in in gen 1

@masterchaoss 2 года назад

I love that you basically made a home and away system for the tournament

@Pesthuf 2 года назад

Wait, what? Wrap still HITS and stuns ghost Pokemon, it just doesn't deal damage? Gen 1, you did it again...

@gengarzilla1685 2 года назад

Yep, the trapping effect does still happen.

@ultimaterecoil1136 2 года назад

So hypothetically speaking if a ghost was leech seeded or burned you could still use wrap to stall them out

@E4439Qv5 2 года назад

Kanto, you've done it again.

@thomaswawrzyniak118 2 года назад

@@ultimaterecoil1136 considering it's only the gastly line in gen 1 they'll probably outspeed and put to to sleep between wrap traps

@QuokkaWaka 2 года назад

@@thomaswawrzyniak118 That would still be a good few turns of leech seed/burn damage, so not a bad trade depending on the situation

@confusedcephalopod3496 2 года назад

So last year’s video is more like the characters from the games fighting eachother, while this video is more tournament official Pokémon fights, where it’s more like set Pokémon teams are battling it out. I honestly like both videos and the insights you give to the code in Pokémon and changes that happen based on the battle scenario constantly changing in real time, gives me a better appreciation for the Pokémon franchise in its complex coding.

@ich3730 2 года назад

this makes me absolutely horrified of how the code of a modern AAA game looks like. Like, pokemon red is a really REALLY simple thing compared to any game from the last 5 years

@ArtisChronicles 2 года назад

I actually really liked this as the events leading up to the top 16 were essentially qualifier matches

@seyproductions 2 года назад

The amount of work that goes into this project is amazing.

@tuiteyfruity5010 Год назад

I absolutely ADORE Both ranking videos. I’ve watched both multiple times. Insanely entertaining and incredibly informative. The videos are sort of a comfort! Thank you for making these.

@LunaAlphaKretin 2 года назад

laughed out loud when the 3b1b music kicked in, the presentational touches here are fantastic

@KnTenshi2 2 года назад

So, would this be "3 Blue 1 Red"?

@magnamon88 2 года назад

@@KnTenshi2 "3Blue1Brown" is a famous divulgation youtube Channel about Math. It is known for its amazing visualizations of theoretical concept. In the "Hardcore Math" section, the screen changed to black as usual in 3B1B videos, the velocity and tone of the voice imitates 3B1B and the music is the one always used.

@KnTenshi2 2 года назад

@@magnamon88 I know - I was making a pun on the name.

@StephenJones-il9ok 2 года назад

I did too. It was great. Really good emulation of 3b1b visual style as well

@frozenfeet4534 2 года назад

so anyway, when you solve for when two trainers exactly tie, you get these beautiful fractals...

@Rex-ik9hf 2 года назад

Wow Kadabra is insane, clearly we knew its line was strong, but it carrying the worst AI in the game so hard was really impressive

@justinmadrid8712 2 года назад

Well in Gen 1, Psychic type was broken. Psychic had no weaknesses. (It was weak to bug-type moves, but there were no bug-type moves in gen 1. Psychic was also weak to ghost, but a glitch in the game made Psychic types immune to ghost!) Also virtually every bug and ghost type happened to also be poison type, which is weak to Psychic. (So it's only 2 'weaknesses' actually ending up being advantages, which explains why a trainer with 1 single Hypno could rank so high).

@carl4889 2 года назад

Twineedle and Pin Missile were both in Gen 1. Beedrill was sufficiently weak that even Executtor with its 4X bug weakness could still win a 1v1.

@justinmadrid8712 2 года назад

@@carl4889 Oh yeah. I forgot about those moves because they were insanely bad.

@carl4889 2 года назад

Pinsir doesn't get any bug stabs in Gen 1. It does get hyper beam, slash and bind and swords dance though, so could be pretty good in the right hands

@caldw615 2 года назад

@@justinmadrid8712 Weaknesses weren't really a problem since it's very frail and could be one shot without a weakness anyway. It's sheer speed and special stat was just able to shine since pokemon that would normally outspeed via level were wittled down so only certain exceptionally fast Pokémon could attack and stop it. Plus Alakazam having Recover meant there was a good chance it could waste a turn instead of attacking by Recovering at full health while Kadabra didn't have this so just attacked first time it could more often.

@myvh773 2 года назад

The 3D animations are so beautiful, especially with the font style from the original games. It looks so neat, well done!

@cellem6216 Год назад

This was wonderfully thorough and I just want to say how much I appreciate the time it took to make this video. My friends and I can't wait for another.

@NotTheWheel 2 года назад

Could we get a google doc file of all the trainers by rank... I liked when you cycled through them all in the video with all there stats but I sort of ... just want to look at them at my own pace.

@erisbarker2386 2 года назад

I agree, or getting to see the excel spreadsheet mentioned would also be good

@user-mp9pn9bz3z Год назад

@pimanrules Pretty please? 🥺

@kevinhefner4466 2 года назад

I actually screamed when he starting going into the math of Elo and we crossed into a 3blue1brown video, especially with the music

@xXJ4FARGAMERXx 2 года назад

The only things left are the diagrams, the little thinking bubbles and characters and it'd be 110% a 3blue1brown video!

@scraps7624 2 года назад

My guy even used Manim lmao, the amount of effort in this video is honestly mindblowing

@user-zc3qo7sm8j 2 года назад

I genuinely did too, and started laughing way too hard

@floramew 2 года назад

Oooh! I wonder if comments like this are why this video was recommended to me 😂 I'm not any good at math, but "3 blue 1 brown, but about pokemon" would instantly get my attention as a video log line, lmao

@Red-yt2dk 2 года назад

I love how the tournament at the end doesn't actually have to be a real one. piman had the footage of all the matchups anyway, and could just cast and present them as though they were sequential. brilliant

@QuokkaWaka 2 года назад

Wow, this deserves _way_ more attention. Fantastic premise and execution, and the guy himself is pretty entertaining too. 10/10 video

@YumiSparkles 2 года назад

Considering in the end, the Venusaur and Charizard Champions and Oaks tended to do better than the Blastoise ones, you may think Blastoise is just the worst of the three, but I think it's something else I think Gyarados is simply the strongest of the other trio of Grass-Fire-Water Pokémon the rival and Oak have, and since they don't have Gyarados when they have Blastoise then that means they have the disadvantage of not having Gyarados, rather than it being from not having one of the other two starters You can even see how well Gyarados tends to do in the battles described in the top 16 tournament, especially Lance's Gyarados in his first battle So basically my take away is Gyarados and Alakazam are the star players in this whole thing and probably some of the best Pokémon to use as a player too (but we absolutely knew that for Alakazam anyway)

@hunter00143 2 года назад

Nah Gyarados is absolutely an S tier pokemon, hits hard, bulky, good type resistances, etc

@owenaspinall2046 2 года назад

At 47:40 you can see the Blastoise Oak has Gyarados and Blastoise. This doesn't apply to the Blastoise champ though, so you're right about that.

@thaguy2196 2 года назад

The biggest reason is actually pretty simple: Venusaur has Razor Leaf. One of the fun Generation 1 bugs is that the global rate for moves to be critical hits is four times higher than it's meant to be, as if all Pokemon are boosted by Focus Energy (which in Gen 1 hilariously reverts the Pokemon that uses it back to the intended critical hit rate). Combine that with a move that has an increased critical hit chance (and Venusaur's respectable speed at base 80. Critical hit chances in Gen 1 were also modified by the base speed of a Pokemon) and you have a Pokemon that is doing 2x damage almost every attack.

@robertharris6092 Месяц назад

So basicly all the non-blastoise teams just get a better blastoise to replace him.

@porgeporgeporge 2 года назад

I like how perfectly suited Gen 1 is for this kind of analysis. The AI is (relatively) simple, Pokemon are always sent out in a specific order, every trainer has the same DVs, and switching out is based on a flat probability for select trainer types rather than a reaction to the battle-state. I'd understand if the subsequent gens never got their own videos, because the AI just gets more complex and inscrutable the further along you go into the main series' timeline. There are lots of fairly obvious general rules you pick up just from playing casually (e.g. good AI prioritises status moves when the player's Pokemon is at full HP, but will always go for the KO when in range, selecting randomly between the moves that are capable of KOing you), but there's some fuzziness around the edges and it's very common for the AI to behave unexpectedly. Even more interesting, however, are all the fun quirks in later gens, like how Gen 4 AI will continue to use Status moves against a Substitute and Water-type moves against a Pokemon with Dry Skin, but not Water Absorb. Tbh the easiest one to tackle would be DP (not Platinum) because DP's AI is random for every trainer, at least after discounting moves that would have no effect. Obviously that's not a very interesting premise for a ranking video though haha.

@skibot9974 2 года назад

How much more complex is Gen 2?

@porgeporgeporge 2 года назад

@@skibot9974 I don’t know all the details, but here are a few examples of the added complexity as I understand it: -move selection is more intentional but fuzzier, like trainers with ‘good’ AI will usually but not always select the most powerful move (if they elect to deal damage rather than inflict status/set up/etc) -starting in gen 2 trainers have a chance of switching out their active Pokémon if it just took damage from an attack and they have a Pokémon in reserve that both resists that attack and has a move that hits your Pokémon super-effectively -trainers don’t replace fainted Pokémon in a set order, instead having some kind of process for determining what to send in next (which doesn’t always seem to make logical sense) -there are also just a whole lot of new move mechanics (e.g. weather, Spikes, Protect/Detect/Endure, Snore/Sleep Talk) which all seem to have specific AI behaviours associated with them and require specific code EDIT: the biggest practical difference in Gen 2 compared with Gen 1 isn't an AI thing, but rather the fact that enemy Pokemon consume PP. This has two major implications, as I see it: 1) Obviously it makes it impossible for battles to last as long. Struggle damage and recoil will eventually force a result. 2) A Level 50 tournament would make less sense with Gen 2, because a lot of battles would be reduced down to which Pokemon can most effectively spam and withstand Struggle (not an especially interesting factor in an AI ranking project)

@aprinnyonbreak1290 2 года назад

My memory is old, but I still feel like the gen 4 AI has some pretty complex decicions it makes when it comes time to go for KOs. Like, it seems to favor perfect accuracy or priority moves if those will kill, and favors non-stab, non-SE attacks if available. It seems to run by something like simulated eyeballing, rather than hard numbers, so the AI will *try* to KO with a priority move, but fail, instead of using another move.

@porgeporgeporge 2 года назад

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Plat/HGSS has some interesting ways of approaching KOs, but I don’t think it ‘favours’ less powerful moves in general. You’re right about the priority/eyeballing stuff though! In more recent games the AI looks for KOs in a weird way: it ‘rolls’ each of its moves for damage, including the random 0.85-1x multiplier at the end, then if any of those moves are rolled to KO it picks randomly between any increased-priority attacks or, if it has none, picks randomly between regular-priority attacks that are rolled to KO. However, the actual damage roll is done after move selection, so it’s possible for the AI to pick a move with, say, a 6.25% chance of KOing (there are 16 damage rolls for every damage calculation) because it got ‘lucky’ with its initial roll, only to fail to KO when it actually executes the move.

@coreybate3951 2 года назад

So happy the algorithm gave me this video, this (and the previous video) have been really interesting insights into the Generation 1 games I never considered too much. Thanks for the awesome content and look forward to the next one some day 😄

@QuickGameBuilds Год назад

I watched your trainer ranking the other day,that's a crazy idea for a video I loved watching it so much effort. Great work

@kitsterling8665 2 года назад

Viewers: "When is Gen II coming?" pimanrules: "Look! Over there! A distraction!"

@mrperfectcell1350 2 года назад

You didn't mention the third type of comment in the comments section: Comments acknowledging your god-like editing and presenting skills.

@uselessDM 2 года назад

Gen II would be pretty interesting considering it's basically two games in one and if you level the levels the Kanto Gym leaders should be a lot more powerful than they are at the point of the game were you fight them. Great video by the way.

@jeffreystone8974 11 месяцев назад

Can I just say that you take over analyzing mildly interesting concepts and add such a level of comedy that this truly becomes a masterpiece, this is my first video of yours and I hope to find many more!

@GyroCannon 2 года назад

The amount of effort to: Write code to simulate battles Run a round robin Have an ELO system Be able to play back battles deterministically This deserves a lot of views.

@B3Band 2 года назад

And people still call HIM stupid for calling a round-robin tournament a "tournament." Insane.

@NoryLevi 2 года назад

@@B3Band probably something to do with language barrier, since round robin are usually called a league in sport, which in other languages has a different word for it compares to knock-out type tournament

@Agent719 2 года назад

"Where is Youngster Joey?" "...In Johto. Youngster Joey is in Johto." Honestly, this is my favorite part of the video. And I'm honestly kinda surprised about the Charizard Champion and Oak losing in the semi-finals. As much as I love Charizard, I assumed the #1 Elo was because the Exeggutor+Gyrados combo was stronger than the Arcanine+Exeggutor/Gyrados combo, as their teams were otherwise the same outside of that(And their starter obviously). But since those won...maybe it's the other way around, and Charizard itself WAS the reason for the higher ranking. Interesting regardless. I wish you the best of luck with getting future later gen tournaments up quickly. Both from experience and for your sanity.

@EsoiTheGrumpyMawile 2 года назад

that Charizard is a double edged sword in red and blue, it has strong stab in flamethrower and good speed... but it also has rage where once selected, it's stuck using it and that move is genuinely horrible in gen 1. Venasaur has razor leaf which is a bit broken in gen 1 and solar beam which is a turn waster to be honest. Just to put things into perspective.

@caldw615 2 года назад

That and Gen 1 AI being kinda dumb and trying to use weird moves against Charizard because of the Fire/Flying type (trying to Earthquake it because fire is weak to ground and having it fail because the game doesn't realise it's also flying too)

@lPhoenixGloryl 2 года назад

I would personally refrain from labeling one team better than another because of a single tournament game result. The #1 elo rating, I think, is a better rating of consistancy. It's not unheard of that a weaker player beats a stronger player in a game. It's just that if they played many games in a row, the skill of the stronger player will shine through via law of large numbers. Pokemon especially has extra RNG involved that can disrupt the outcome of a single game. That said, tournaments are really exciting - partially for this reason. This was no exception for me.

@imaginaryboy2000 2 года назад

Charizard is much better than Arcanine, while Venusaur isn't better than Exeggutor and Blastoise is way worse than Gyarados. Plus, Exeggutor doesn't have the same type priority glitchiness as Venusaur, giving it a huge edge there.

@imaginaryboy2000 2 года назад

@@darkphoenix2745 Charizard is also faster and does more damage with its fire moves. Plus, in this specific bracket, the more threatening foes rarely use rock-types, and when they do, they usually die easy to flamethrower anyway, AND the best rock move any foes's gonna have is Rock Throw, hurts Charizard a lot sure but it's as powerful as EQ is against Arcanine

@lerdog 10 месяцев назад

You're insanely talented, man, so much hard work goes into this vids.

@SailorSocko 2 года назад

Really enjoyed this video. Much respect to the work you put in on this. Loved the tournament

@Pyrois 2 года назад

This is one of the most unbelievable RU-vid videos I've ever seen in terms of consistent quality and attention to detail. No wonder it's been a year since the last one! This is such a silly and - let's be real - inconsequential topic, but thank you for giving it so much effort and polish. I had a ton of fun watching it! P.S. gen 2 when ??? 😏

@hollowknightenjoyer2320 2 года назад

in the end he said one day so lets wait for the next tournament and a possibility of the 16 best trainers being our final battle against youngster Joey and maybe win the final battle on the tournament style battle of the 16 or 15 since normal types are op in gen 1 and 2

@NicholasOsella 2 года назад

Agreed

@itsbmeGaming 2 года назад

A gen 2 would be interesting to see. Probably wouldn't be a shocker to see Red and Blue at the top of the list, even if levels were set to 50. Both of their teams compared to everyone else are head over heels much better.

@doggo7078 2 года назад

"Your video is incredible, also useless, when's part 2?" XDXDXD

@ryanprjgamingchannel9437 2 года назад

"I'm the strongest trainer in the world!" - Blue, champion battle. He is not entirely wrong, he's just uhh, one of the strongest trainers from Kanto. All three parallel versions of his peak, er, champion himself, hogged the top 3 ranks, the S+ tier spots.

@near5148 2 года назад

Red: are you sure about that

@DarthAnimal 2 года назад

Of fuck he's going to to need to do one giant video when its all said and done comparing all the champions, isnt he

@waterierStone 2 года назад

@@DarthAnimal wait why did you have to fight Lance if he was just dethroned as the champion by blue. That's why I like gen 5.

@tonyhakston536 2 года назад

@@waterierStone because he still had his elite four position to fall back on.

@natenatenate10 2 года назад

@@tonyhakston536 but who was the prior champion? before Gary reached there and beat him?

@krislynn5965 2 года назад

Holy shit.... This is truly a labor of love. Gotta thank youtube for having me stumble on your channel. This was fantastic! Appreciate all your hard work!

@MSDoL 2 года назад

But we all know that the real champion is the one, who brought us this educational content.

@ergomate9092 2 года назад

So what you're saying is that Bulbasaur is best starter. Ah, victory.

@USELESSDCK 2 года назад

A bit of a fact since from what I recall, the game is balanced around the player choosing Charmander

@chavaspada 2 года назад

It always have been... Bulbasaur is the "easy" mode because it's the strongest.

@chavaspada 2 года назад

@@USELESSDCK Nope, more like Bulbasaur -> Easy mode, Squirtle -> Regular, Charmander -> Hard mode. Bulbasaur has advantage against the first 2 gym leaders and resistance to the first 4, Squirtle has advantage against Brock and resistance against Misty, Charmander gets walled by the initial gym leaders.

@snakeorbreak6258 2 года назад

heck yeah bulbasaur

@aprinnyonbreak1290 2 года назад

Maybe. It could also be that Exeggutor is holding the team back, except on teams that don't have exeggutor. In all the champion matches with it, it seems to be a really dead pick.

@fntthesmth423 Год назад

You know the captions on this video are particularly excellent! Thanks for that :)

@Aimlesswaves. 2 года назад

I loved the first video and I loved this video too. Excellent work, I whole-heartedly commend you on your dedication and willpower.

@NickCharles 2 года назад

I don't know what to say other than "thank you". Thank you for putting all the time and effort into creating this beautiful masterpiece of data. I never thought we'd see a revisit, and I couldn't be happier to stumble across this once again.

@leonardovalente9772 2 года назад

46:45 "Agatha didnt really stand a chance" One could even say she didn't stand a *ghost* of a chance *wink wink*

@pikapuffin368 2 года назад

“Yugi”

@newaccount3743 2 года назад

How do I delete someone else's comment?

@pikapuffin368 2 года назад

@@newaccount3743 Delete your eyes

@mioj0000000 2 года назад

- 4kids

@christopherfleetwood5252 2 года назад

Uggggghhhhh

@josephrion3514 Год назад

This is your first video for me, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you for your time and effort.

@brutalbjorn7524 Год назад

the quality of research, implementation of everything, animation, storytellingyand the explanations on the technical side are all top notch, and you deserve to get a bigger following off this, just hoping you don't set your standards too high and get in a cycle of never bringing out any content because it's not good enough, that would be a shame, because we need more of this :)

@marsella527 2 года назад

50% of the vid was me nodding along pretending I have any clue what is being said. While the other 50% is me loving a good Anime Tournament arc

@chainswordcs 2 года назад

actually, trying to reimplement the trainer AI in later generations would be a tall task, even considering the source code decompilation projects of DP, RS, etc...

@Shoreknight 2 года назад

I feel it could work for Gen 2 maybe Gen 3(?), but I understand if it can’t be done.

@linhero797 2 года назад

Actually the AI for Gen 2 is just a build off of the AI of Gen 1 really. Mostly dealing with bug fixes with Gen 1. Such as trainers picking Super Effective moves even if they do no damage. As well as adding things. Such as certain Trainers now getting specific moves to each dedicated Pokemon. And adding that trainers have PP as well. It would not be EASY. But it wouldn't be very difficult. At least as difficult as doing this with other Generations.

@skibot9974 2 года назад

Plus how would you handle instances of forced double battles like Tate & Liza? As such I feel Gen 2 is the only other one still possible

@linhero797 2 года назад

@@skibot9974 You don't make it forced. You just run it like a Double Battle without the script of Tate and Liza forcing you to double battle. There are other Double battles in the game that don't force you to use more then 1 Pokemon.

@skibot9974 2 года назад

@@linhero797 what I meant more is what about trainers that are always pairs? Also double battle trainers tend to have movesets tailor made for doubles so making them singles wouldn’t give accurate results

@RetroGamingSweden 2 года назад

Absolutely mesmerizing! I was in a trance of pure concentration during this and the former video. Loved it!

@jayzell3687 Год назад

Just gotta say? I really do appreciate the fact you decided do do a redux even thought the original idea was still so solid to begin with. The changes and implementations are fascinating g to hear about in how you address them in code/methodology, and while I totally understand you deserve a break after all that? Even if it takes a while, I'd watch a similar video on another generation hands down. Earned my sub 9x over mate

@shinobix4925 2 года назад

Honestly the fact this sequel took over a year but the video it was a sequel to was immediately recognisable really speaks to the quality and originality of this series. Good on you for taking the time you need to make it memorable

@SwagnerCountsThings 2 года назад

I appreciate your thoroughness. It's always something that I've wanted to do. While I do possess the mathematical wherewithal to run elo based systems, I severely lack the programming that makes such an undertaking feasible. I anxiously await more Pokemon related content

@AndreSantos-kr3yu 2 года назад

Great work, as before! I envy you for your hard work and for having the idea in the first place. Very clever approach to the many obstacles.

@Nellak2011 2 года назад

I laughed so hard at the 3blue1brown music, I thought it was going to be some parody of it but it was actually a great explaination. This video quality is insanely good, I wish I had the same skillset.

@xXJ4FARGAMERXx 2 года назад

Man I wish i could understand the mumbo jumbo he's saying in the math zone.

@JaharNarishma 2 года назад

I appreciate the transparency and the details of this video. The comments scouring, the mathematics, the programming, the trouble shooting, the presentation... Well done!

@AlexanderTernstrom 2 года назад

Awesome work. Really loved the video and look forward to what you will make next.

@erik19borgnia 2 года назад

I definitely LOVED this video. It's AWESOME. Congratulations, this was really a hard work and you deserve some cake. And cookies. And a lot of subscribers.

@andrewsheiman8574 2 года назад

This is one of the most insanely high-effort videos I've ever seen.

@BossCampers1656 2 года назад

Omg this is so hyped

@pielovervi 2 года назад

Same!

@xXJ4FARGAMERXx 2 года назад

More hype than a Hyper Potion

@Unknownsoldier740 2 года назад

amazing content man. Great work! Can't wait till your next video!

@Forever_Rayne 2 года назад

The Rival may have won the tournament and the championship, but the Juggler won our hearts! Outstanding job! ☺️

@nasus5769 2 года назад

You are definitely hitting that "I don't care what their videos are about, I just like how they're doing it" level of quality. Also code review would be very interesting.

@JulianBliss 2 года назад

The production value on this video is insane.

@shippernessity 2 года назад

Daaayum, Blue so strong, he really deserves it. I really felt the tournament! Kudos to you, sir for making this awesome video.

@samevans4834 2 года назад

Loved the 3blue1brown reference in the Elo explanation! Great video!

@aztecemperor1536 2 года назад

With Gen 2 coming.... eventually, I can't wait for how the AI fairs against each other. With Psychic being nerfed, Dark and Steel being created, 100 new pokemon, 8 new gym leaders, and Whitney's miltank it's going to be a wild ride. I'm really hoping MandJTV is right with Karen as the champion because now looking at her "Dark" team in G/S/C she has some good type coverage.

@jeltevl8868 2 года назад

I think whitney will rank lower as expected since she is pretty relying on that miltank lol. She will still rank high but not as high as people expect her to be since she effectivly only really has 1-1,5 pokemon.

@davidharshman7645 2 года назад

@@jeltevl8868 Kinda depends on the methodology chosen, too...

@ultimaterecoil1136 2 года назад

@@jeltevl8868 she will get some wins via metronome luck too. Heck she might get some wins against far stronger teams with bad ai off some status moves from metronome

@5qu3l 2 года назад

@@ultimaterecoil1136 oh god how the hell is metronome gonna work in such a format

@javaguru7141 2 года назад

Fares* 🙂

@Alex-uu4kn 2 года назад

I think the most intriguing aspect of this sort of tournament is the possibility of a result that *doesn't* match the order in which each trainer is fought.

@magiclapras 2 года назад

Case in point, the Juggler that made top 16, and Bulbasaur rival consistently being ahead of the 2 corresponding rivals.

@Alex-uu4kn 2 года назад

@@magiclapras I probably would have been much further out of order if each Pokémon had the moves that it would have at level 50. That would be pretty neat since, to be honest, a level 50 that only knows splash isn't really a level 50.

@Viroh 2 года назад

This is the content I live for. Seriously amazing work! :)

@SawkTheFighter13 2 года назад

The amount of work you put into this is insane, this deserves a LOT more views!

@acadow4619 2 года назад

I wish this had merch. Id love a acrylic stand with the trainer sprite and card. Good work over all, I look forward to what you do next year!

@TheGamingLegendsOfficial 2 года назад

actually though, I'd buy the crap out of these. They're super clean and awesome to look at.

@secondengineer9814 2 года назад

It would be interesting to make a pokemon RBY battle simulator rom, which lets you pick trainers and even design a custom trainer and either watch battles with animations or just simulate them all on the GameBoy

@jasonvernish7366 2 года назад

Id kill for this

@loulou3676 2 года назад

I mean it sounds like our dude here basically has made that, and he explained in pretty good detail how he did it. That said I wouldn't pressure anyone to release their code

@kaisermarcqui3471 2 года назад

I know I'm kinda late, but Pokémon Showdown has a Gen 1 format, which is similar enough to whar you're saying.

@patroka 2 года назад

Utterly fantastic video. Good work.

@pappy2690 10 месяцев назад

Fantastic video, good use of music as well. After watching unadjusted and set levels i agree that both sets are entertaining and worth doing

@hellhound78 2 года назад

This looks great, sounds great, the humor is nice and I have no idea how he has less that 100k subs. I'm so happy this got recommended to me, since I quite enjoyed the first one.

@platinum1161 2 года назад

Forget those other games you listed, I wanna see the enemy AI ranked from Colosseum and XD. As fun as that would be to see, it would probably be insanely challenging since those games have some of the most complicated AI of all of them, especially considering the double battling mechanic.

@ChristmasPterodactyl 2 года назад

This is exactly what I was thinking, I'm glad I checked the comments before commenting it.

@lcgluciano15 Год назад

Man! So much effort and skill into doing this video! Congratulations!

@misdemeanor7083 2 года назад

lol I love the 3blue1brown segment about Elo system you put in. Nailed the animation style and delivery

@frickinfrick8488 2 года назад

Wow, mad props for how much effort you put into these videos they’re fascinating. I understand if they’ll be a very rare occurrence since I’m sure this takes forever to produce, but I’ll be eagerly tuning in whenever or if ever you’re able to make more

@gatoMan102 2 года назад

This video is an absolute masterpiece, as was the first. Incredible work

@archangelshiro 2 года назад

The youtube algorithm shined upon you, i found this completely by mistake, and I loved it. Great vid, thanks for all your hard work on it :D

@KisiroKitsune 2 года назад

I can't keep up with the math of this but I really admire all the work you put into this, and the presentation of the video itself is really well done too.

@MrEnte3000 2 года назад

8:40 There is also a difference in the minimum damage Psywave can deal, depending on if the player uses it, or the opponent. For one of the two it's 1HP, for the other it's 0HP. Though, I forgot which one is which.

@djkates1916 2 года назад

That applies in a Link Battle (that is, a battle conducted between two Game Boys via a Link Cable); the user's side will never roll 0 damage, while the opponent's side may. The tournament didn't use Link Battles, but rather single-player battles (meaning that the RNG is only invoked once, rather than once on each side), so the desync is impossible, and Psywave will always deal a minimum of 1 damage.