Empire of Death | Digesting The Doctor Who Season Finale w/ Spoilers | Nah, Not For Me 

When your claws touch the edges of the space-time vortex, it creates openings, but when your elbow touches it, it burns you away completely, claws included. That's just science.

"Whoniverse" felt like a cool term until RTD made it official. Now it feels corporate.

The one positive about it was Bonnie Langford. And it was sweet to see her reaction to Old Sixie's multicoloured outfit. Apparently it was a genuine reaction that they kept in.

My biggest questions: - Why didn't they just go to 2046 right at the start of the series? - Why did it actually snow? - Why bother pointing at the sign? Nuns didn't see her so no one would know she was naming her - What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS was split? - What happened to the memory TARDIS? - 14 and Donna must have been turned to dust, wonder what he thought of that lol - Sutekh was mystified by this random woman even though he could see ALL of time and space. Why couldn't he see 2046 when the mum took the DNA test? Surely he could find out who she was -If the Toymaker was outside the universe until WBY with the Salt, when did he ever have chance to 'play a game' with Sutekh? He didn't want to go up against the one who waits, who “was there in the dark”, but Sutekh wasn't in the dark, he was on the TARDIS lol It was all very meh tbh We NEED a Susan cameo this era, surely!

A second comment I'd like to add is that I think this "Tales of the Tardis" show needs to be made available to fans outside of the UK. I had no idea what a Memory Tardis even was.

If Sutekh has been travelling on the Tardis since Pyraminds of Mars, does this mean that Pete's world Rose, and her family are all dead now?

Mel was my one positive.

Oh boy this one was a clunker for. Words fail me.

It's been interesting seeing the most enthusiastic Dr Who youtubers having a similar (nay identical!) experience to the one I had back during the first Tennant era.

To quote my social media response to this episode... "Soooo… a very typical RTD finale. Overblown, lots of tell, ambitious, emotional, about ten endings, and a lot of answers that make less sense the more you think about it. Oh, and oh so vague and hand wavy. Yet, for all that, still enjoyable in the moment."

I got so scared in the episode when it was written "She came from a broken home with a bad step father" i thought they were going to make Ruby a rape baby

The maestro, the toy maker, the damn land mine were all more compelling than Sutekh! This episode was so bad it made the rest of the season worse retrospectively, and i liked this season 😔

Chris, I very much disagree with you on these last two episodes -- I loved them! -- but you don't owe anybody any defense or explanation for your opinions. You seem to spend a lot of time recently telling us how you're not inclined to hate on "Doctor Who." My dood! You're running two separate web series looking long and deep into the series! We know you're doing it out of love! The criticisms you offer are always supported with solid bases and examples and specifics. Nothing in them gives anybody any reason to accuse you of reflexive naysaying. Some jerky commenters will always go there, but there's no basis for it, so there's no reason for you to concern yourself with them. So, please, Chris, just take it as a given that you can give a critique and cite your reasons, and we'll be here for it.

It was complete shit. Just one of the many many plot holes in this garbage:- In "The Doctor's Wife", wouldn't the TARDIS say to the Doctor...FFS you have a giant rat in the TARDIS called Sutekh!!!

I have to agree, it was an unsatisfying episode and an unsatisfying conclusion to most of the season's mysteries. Gatwa, Gibson, Langford and Redgrave all gave excellent performances, and that little moment with Mel and the Sixth Doctor's coat was very touching. I can't fault the cast at all. But the story itself felt mostly hollow to me too.

What a shame. So much promise, especially the run from Boom to Rogue. I'd call it a curate's egg, but the problems are so strong with this one it kind of undoes all the good stuff and leaves a bad taste. Still, at least Ncuti and Millie were consistently great.

While I was higher on The Legend of Ruby Sunday than you were, Chris, I have to admit Empire of Death was pretty narratively flimsy and ultimately a letdown. I'm used to RTD finales being high on emotion and short on logic, so that didn't bother me too much other than it being an unsatisfying and unearned conclusion to what has been quite a good season. But I was bitterly disappointed that the payoff to all this endless Susan teasing was the Doctor just going "yeah well maybe someday." I was so sure we were going to end on an epilogue of him finally going to visit her on post-Dalek Invasion Earth that I could taste it. Carole Ann Ford's not going to be around forever, and it feels rather like it was going to be now or never. If you're not going to bring her back, RTD, that's fine; but don't tease it and tease it and tease it and then yank it away.

The best thing about Sutekh being in the TARDIS since Pyramids of Mars (but also there earlier I guess, because they said 1066 and that's a Hartnell story; maybe he piggybacked the TARDIS down it's iwn personal timeline or something; "Something something time-something" is basically the Doctor Who time travel rules) is that, between the Mara , Sutekh, and (if you count Big Finish) the Eminence, that means that there was a point in time wherein at least three evil psychic entities were just chilling either within the TARDIS directly, or within the TARDIS's inhabitants, which I find utterly funny. House of the malevolent mind-beings.

I was personally very let down by Empire of Death. I loved the ending for Ruby's story, that was brilliant for me. It certainly subverted my expectations about her origins but I think it was very well done still. But I have no idea why Sutekh was interested in this mystery too. I have no idea why there was such power inside Ruby to scare Maestro. I have no idea why it snowed whenever Ruby recalled the memories or why the Doctor's memory of the Eve somehow changed. I'm not sure we will even get answers to these questions at this point. Also, Sutekh's defeat to me was honestly nonsense... I still haven't really understood what happened. The stakes were obviously incredibly low for the audience as it was very clear from the start that everything would somehow be reverted. Sutekh's plan to use the Doctor's landings throughout time and space to spread death was brilliant. I loved the idea. But it was just so easy to undo. And he got somehow destroyed in the Time Vortex despite having lived inside it all this time holding onto the Tardis? I think that was a very very poor resolution to a character that was presented as being so powerful and important. He barely did anything at all.

I hate that when Kate died I gasped and genuinely thought for a second that something had happened lol

The 73 yards bit makes zero sense when you realise that sutekh has killed everyone in 2024 and this timeline of ap william implementing the dna stuff would never have happened as rubys mom and the rest of the human race would have been wiped out. The whole story is full of plot holes and contrivances. Also where does unit end up getting the Dna analysis from at the end. If they could have done that all along what was the point of the time window in the first place. Ruby exploded the thing that analysed the blood sample.

I think we're in agreement Chris! Some fantastic scenes (Sian Clifford!) and Gatwa, Gibson and Langford are great throughout, but weirdly underwhelming. I agree that making Ruby's mother an ordinary woman was the correct thing to do, especially vis a vis Star Wars, but it didn't quite sit right with the hype. And your point about how it doesn't matter if there are more answers and revelations to come because you're judging this story, not based on what might happen in future, was spot on. It's odd, I've mostly really enjoyed this series, but theres's a real feeling of needing new blood somehow - like the old standards and tricks aren't going to work anymore. I have a weird suspicion that we're going to keep returning to the 73 yards world over the next series - which makes this season feel like a weird mid-season pause rather than a complete story, like the audience is on the same journey as Ruby.

I mean the issues could have been fixed with more drafts. I.e. instead of death getting rid of death, have the doctor threaten Sutekh to reverse what he done otherwise he'd be stuck being dragged through the vortex, framing it in a timelord victorious fashion. Maybe have the rope be a weapon of the Osirons that they used to bind him originally along with the eye of Horus. Also, linking the time window to a "recovered sarcophagus" in Unit. Again changes which I think would have helped the plot and execution of it better.

Loving your channel, newish subscriber and slowly marathoning through your marathon of Classic Who👍. Your views are extremely close to mine particularly "Empire of Death" . I totally agree with you regarding the first scenes. Once they killed everybody it was clear the Reset Button being used yet again. I can't help feeling Ruby's resolution regarding her Mum was a hasty rewrite due to Millie leaving the Series. It didn't ring true to me. Yes I know she will appear briefly in Season 2, but I feel the story arc was cut short. I feel "Empire ..."to steal your terminology was indigestible

Good video and well spoken. Hopefully Season 2 is better.

This was very spot-on but I felt part one did a lot of things right to set up Sutekh. There were a few pieces that didn't go well together, like the new UNIT team, but it was definitely a nice setup. The penultimate episode may be one of the strongest in the entire season if you take it as a standalone but the problem is, other episodes like the Devil's Chord or 73 Yards may have more rewatchable value because the payoff of this finale really drags the whole thing down. Sutekh's motivations, the solution, the whole main story, Ruby's mystery, it's just... not there. The story fired on all cylinders, the expectation was definitely raised and you can attest to that, but the final impact felt minimized on all fronts. It's as if we learned to ride a bike and someone put the small wheels afterwards. Edit: apart from all that, I also feel the same way about your take on the state of the Doctor Who fandom. I feel it's important to address the need for honesty, contention, thoughtfulness and being above subjectivity as much as possible. A fan is not meant to hate the show for the sake of it, that's simply an emotional disdain coming from a different place. A fan is supposed to care for this and respect others, even if it means sharing their own piece of mind. It's definitely a thin line and we all get carried away at times but as long as we're in the same boat and act like civilized folk, disagreements are just a small part of it. I still love the show and its community, but I just feel something was amiss this time around to the point of making me feel disconnected, and that's a rare thing because I'm usually very invested.

Hello again Chris. Kudos to you on the quick turnaround on this video. Enjoyed listening to your thoughts. Wish I had enjoyed the episode but I disliked most of the writing. The VFX, and performances were proper highlights, however I was very distracted by how flimsy the plot worked together. I was definitely left with many questions that I don't expect to get answers to, and am feeling less enthusiastic about the next season. I'll spare you a list of specifics and just write that I am left in the ballpark of being as disappointed with the show as I was during the Chibnall era.

I wonder if the baby we saw on there planet is meant to be the new compion My guess is that Mrs flood is the god of fiction (connecting to "the mind robber). Perhaps she's been somehow writing the doctors recent adventures

My Take on this, One of the most powerful enemies the Doctor has faced was defeated putting a lead on him and taking him Walkies not the park but in the Time Vortex. I've been up and down this season Space Babies was awful terrible start. Before I prattle on if these words come over as jumbled its owing to my voice software typing for me. I knew he would drag out Mrs Flood, She apparently is wearing another costume from a former companion that's two now, When restored called the Doctor a "Clever boy" she wore the exact outfit as Clara in the earlier episode. Is she Clara? 100% no but whoever she really is knows the companions. The moderate channels that always find good things to say are struggling with this. My own feeling he focused so much on Ruby built up this entire why does it snow why is she like Donna and make an alternate timeline etc the reality was just so flat, My biggest take on this we have seen RTD write the biggest ever reset button EVER. Death Vs Death = Life. Listen to some of the planets brought back? long dead = he's got his "omg gallifrey is back" "omg the Master is back" and a whole host of characters that can all return because the Doctor went walkies with the God of death. The key Question I think RTD needs to ask himself yes he's back but does he really want to be back? or was it unless he came back the show got axed again. It feels quite dated some of his stories, yes he's scaled back not heaped every story with a million other questions Chibnall never answered. But I genuinely believe he needed a story like this in a very subtle way to repair the crap about gallifrey being destroyed when it was the basis of the Anniversary. Bonnie acted her arse off for me Mel was the best performance. The entire Who is Ruby's mother got so boring in the legend of Ruby Sunday, Wearing a hooded cloak walking around like the Grim Reaper all totally normal. The Toymaker told the Doctors even he wouldn't go near him yet it took the 2 Doctors to defeat the Toymaker when all the Doctor needed was a lead. I hate saying this but if this really is the best RTD can write we know where its heading and its nothing to do with being anti woke, Its down to bad stories.

Tales of The TARDIS should have been a CURATOR show taking place in the museum and place where UNIT keeps artifacts. Same budget but instead of being ghost memories of the TARDIS, it would be the actual Curators speaking to actual companions.

I think it would have been awesome if as soon as they leashed Sutekh, he just grabbed the rope and dissolved it. He already demonstrated that he can kill technology as well, by wiping out "The Vlinx." And then he just laughs it off and is like "You presume that you can bind The god of death in wires and electricity." Under a great writer they easily could have had a whole series in a defeated universe. Hell, you could even say that The Time Lords and Gallifrey survived Sutekh by reverse engineering the "cup of soup" technology and time locking them in a bubble against Sutekh. Now The Doctor has to work with The Time Lords to find a way to defeat Sutekh.

RTD must have been impressed by The Avengers and thought 'ooh I can do that' but he didn't understand WHY the same thing worked in the Avengers.

RTD has always loved these big bombastic stories, especially for the finales, but the problem is that they are never that great, they are fun, they have some really interesting ideas and concepts but in the end they are kinda eh He always worked better in a smaller setting, exploring characters and making it more intimate, like with Midnight for example Tho ig he can be good at the more over-the-top stories such as Turn Left or even 73 Yards. Anyway, it was good to be invested in Who after a while

I loved all RTDs original finales so i never agree with people saying oh this was a typical rtd finale. But Empire just did not work for me, it had good ideas buried in it but there was too much meta "gotcha, rubys ordinary afterall". And the season was much too short to allow for such an emotional story. Mel was by far the best thing here and i was dissappointed that she was quickly turned into a monster. The mechanics had too much nonsense with the rope. Stolen Earth worked for me bevause it had earned its emotions over 4 seasons of 13 eps. And it was bags of fun. This story needed 2 or 3 seasons worth of material to be built on first.

Very poor conclusion. I mean, I was left struck dumb with how bad it was when the credits rolled. I knew we'd get yet another deus ex machina, but that made no sense at all. The Ruby's mother nonsense ended up being a copy of Rey from Star Wars. Why does Sutekh care? Sutekh then defeated by a cable. Very little action or memorable visuals. I was bored after just 10 minutes. Not sure why Rose was in either episode, did nothing. Mel and Ruby the only plusses for me... although I should add it was the closest Gatwa has been to being in the same universe as the character he's playing.

Have I missed a bit in that finale? I wonder this as I keep on asking myself why was the episode called 'Empire of Death'?

Legend was a decent episode....empire was abysmal. Plot holes so big you could drive a double decker bus through. Sutehk saying rubys secret was a bigger threat than the timelord...only for her to be just a normal person? What the absolute flipping heck was all that about? You telling me the doctor couldn't find a spoon or a peice of metal anywhere but only from a random woman? Ruby making snow everywhere...WHY....she not just normal after all? why did meistro panic over her song of she was just normal? why was rubys mum wearing a huge robe? who was supposed to see her pointing? if it's the doctor, why would rubys mum care to stop and point just to tell him a name that would mean nothing to him? why did ruby make it snow everywhere if it was a memory of an event she would probablyexperiencd when she was DAYS OLD! TIME IS NOT A MEMORY RUSSEL!! why did sutehk look like a fiberglass dog on the flashback screen yet immediately looked like scoobydoo when he attatched himself to the tardis? Are we really supposed to believe sutehk was there when the tardis splintered at frontios? What about the big bang reset? was stupid!!! Just a stupid reset button. How completely LAME. Don't get me started on the cultural appropriation quip. Egyptian culture was based on tbe osirans..not stolen by sutehk. Sutehk was totally wasted. That ending was abysmal! So now death brings life? Really? It reversed every death? Why? Sutehk lived for centuries sitting on top of the tardis in the vortex, but now he is destroyed by exposure to it? Russel apparently can't write for toffee anymore and i have to say I only enjoyed a single episode this series....last week's. Russel failed to end on a high and fumbled the ball. Rubbish episode ending a rubbish season. As an extra...where was mel when they were in the remember tardis scenes in pyramids of mars?

I don't like the ratings for the new season. Do you think the series needs a temporary break?

Sutekh could have seen Rubys mother when dr landed there in 2914

A lot of this series has been Doctor Who just in first gear. Enjoyable on the whole, but just leaves a bit to be desired.

Went to see this in the cinema, at the part where they’re checking the computer for rubys dna, I really needed to pee but I wanted to see who the mum was so waited. As soon as ruby dropped the tv I was like fine I’ll go now because there was still at least 10mins left thought if I go now, I won’t miss the big finale….came back and they were celebrating all the planets coming back. I enjoyed tlors because I was excited for sutekh but this was a huge disappointment lmao. I also think ending the previous episode on the snap would have worked better for people who didnt know who sutekh was but I wish they hadn’t brought him back now

I truly believe you are being too forgiving of this season, but I am also glad that you took away good experiences from it.

Long time watcher, first time commenter, and I just wanted to say... your Talons of Weng Chiang DVD is in the wrong place. 😁

WHO let the dog out !

I came away from Empire of Death feeling the same as I did with Rogue. Well that was Meh and not for me. I was totally exhausted when I watched it and have said I should rewatch when I am actually awake. However every review I have watched has confirmed that my reaction was correct it really was a meh episode. I have no issues with Ruby's mum just being a 'normal' human BUT I do take issue with the hype that the show itself gave it not matching up and not really explaining things most especially the snow. I love Doctor Who and will be watching next season and for as long as I am able but the highlight episode for me this season was Boom and Empire of Death will be very near the bottom 😢

i fell asleep so thats what i thought of it

It’s not as bad as the season 3 finale but was flawed

Have to say I liked this episode overall. Was it perfect? Absolutely not. Was it as bad as people are saying online? Nope. It was really quite compelling and well made in places, including the sight of Sutekh writhing and crawling around the Tardis. And Mel's apparently imminent demise inside the Memory Tardis hit me hard. At that point we had no idea as to whether most people would return after the admittedly Marvel-esque 'dusting'.

It is the Flux again

the only reason this episode was iffy is because it was episodes 2 & 3 of a 3-part finale story, and it was that because...? disney? probably. we *needed* this to be a 10 episode season. if RTD had dropped one of the non-essential episodes to make an 8-part season have a 3-part finale it would have felt top heavy. I'll take costumes made of cardboard and bubblewrap sprayed with silver paint any day if it means there's budget (or production decisions) that allow stories enough space to do what they need to. TL:DR I blame the damn mouse :-)

Why would Ruby mother want to find the horrible father of Ruby

I mean, I really disagreed with you on part one, Chris. But not so much this time. It's got a lot I like in it still. But yes, RTD has still done one and only one Who season finale (including End of Time) I really like. A great writer, but a writer of messy, very disappointing Who finales.

Waiting 12 months for more doctor who is a waste of time.

If this was a classic series 4 parter, episodes 2 and 3 would’ve been 10/10 with 1 and 4 being 2/10 The middle segment of the story was good. But like the first and last 20 minutes sucked

Man for me someone who enjoyed the series apart from space babies this was so garbage. This episode genuinely makes the rest lower quality in my opinion. Definitely RTDs worst finale.

Nah, not for me? Mate, if you look at the internet, it was more like, nah, not for anyone. Myself included.

This ep is structurally sound but incredibly disappointing. That's all I've got to say really. RTD isn't bucking his trend of unsatisfying payoffs.

I’ve really enjoyed this series (mostly) but found TLORS pretty disappointing. There were some great moments, but I found it confusing and none of it hung together for me. It felt very much like style over substance.

Well..... The one thing we learnt RTD now thinks fan fav Davros was problematic..... Now Fan fav story Pyramids of Mars is now problematic. As the Cultural Appropriation comment makes zero sense in the concept of the story.

Much like the David Tennant specials, Series 14 fell flat for me. I was so excited for Russell's return, perhaps naively. I loved "RTD1," and think 'It's a Sin' is an absolute masterpiece of television. 'Years and Years' was also enjoyable, albeit quite preachy. For the most part, I held RTD in very high esteem as a writer and producer, and genuinely thought Doctor Who was in safe hands once more. I've tried to be open-minded and let things slide, but sadly "RTD2" has thus far left me feeling just as a I did throughout Chibnall's run as showrunner; craving sophisticated narratives, character development and above all, to be entertained. Instead, I've either been bored or frustrated. I'm a liberal-minded person, who considers myself somewhere near the middle politically. I'm conservative when it comes to matters like the economy and taxes (for example) but haven't got a bigoted bone in my body. Nevertheless the far-left pandering and virtue-sigalling on basically every issue, left a rotten taste in my mouth. I would have hand-waved most of RTD's party political broadcasting, if the stories had been more focused on adventure and excitement, but they simply haven't been. Ncuti and Millie are superb and deserve much better material.

Captain Jack should have been in this episode. Something that can't be killed. I didn't like the episode at all.

Digestion this is like trying to digest shit flavoured concrete...

The episode was full of plot holes and a story that made no sense? It turns out Ruby mother likes dressing up as a teenager as a Jedi while dumping babies in churches at the age of 15. The Doctor defeated the God fo all gods with some rope as well as a whistle so yeah go figure! Yet again the Doctor was crying his way through the episode and overall his performance of the character has been lacklustre due to R.T.D poor writing! Awful ending to an awful season!

I hated it sadly. Such a build up with Ruby and then she is a product of two teenage kids being careless. Badly written. Don't care who Mrs Flood is with her Jackanory ending. Far too many loop holes and poor writing only saving grace was Bonnie. Sutekh looked as scary as Scooby doo on acid. Much scarier with Pyramids in 1976. They have really lost the art somehow even with the special effects money. No Ncuti not feeling the love so shall I go and touch grass now!

Bi-oh-PIC.

It was complete rubbish

There was so many things wrong with this episode. Last week's "That's me" I thought was just outright special needs. Yes that is you. Gatwe's constant changing accent, Gatwe crying 9 times this episode, the screaming. The Ruby reveal and explanation was so pisspoor and makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The dead baby woman giving a spoon, no point and the whole memory is dying thing makes again no sense. Jemma Redgrave was the only good thing about this episode. Called Empire of Death has no death, ok at least kill Ruby's annoying af family.

Worst episode of an awful season. HUGE plot holes and things that make no sense. RTD needs to go. We need a new writer and a new Doctor. The show has become one big campy, gay panto.