So as a note, I would disagree of the best time to remove Obeka. If you do it when state, the player can choose to end the turn to save Obeka, and they just lose that turn. If you do it with Isochron on the stack you can force them to choose to let Obeka die or exile Isochron. If it is with imprint trigger on the stack, you can force them to choose to lose the imprint trigger and have a dead Isochron on board. I would say in response to the ability is the worst time.
Olivia this is a great channel not sure why I have never seen this channel till now but , I appreciate your time and effort in explaining these steps. STAY PAWZITIVE AND SAFE
cast isochron scepter, imprint dramatic reversal (have a sol ring first) ,. pass the turn, then respond to eeverything an oponent does "do you want to end your turn?"
Another option worth noting is bouncing the scepter, because they need to imprint a spell on it. Even flickering it can be disastrous iirc, since the Scepter forgets the previously exiled card. It's fine and good to find 1 of those extra turns spells, finding a 2nd might not be so quick, and if you're pretty all in on this strategy (as is normal in cEDH) you might not have much other value going on, which could be dangerous if your combo is disrupted.
Hi, love the channel and the content. I did a deck tech on Obeka on my channel and learn a few things about how Final Fortune and Obeka work. 1. So with Final Fortune, you can end the turn anytime during the extra turn and the "Lose the game" trigger won't trigger, it only triggers on that extra turn, not the next end step, so you don't have to wait until the end step for it to work. 2. If you try to kill Obeka as you cast Final Fortune, and Obeka does not have summoning sickness, you can save yourself by ending your own turn before the removal spell/ability and Final Fortune resolve. Ending the turn is complicated. Thanks for the content, keep up the good work.
Ending the turn REMOVES "until end of turn effects", and so you can remove Final Fortine's bad effect before it goes on the stack. Is that what you're talking about? Do I have that right?
@@PhazonOmega Final Fortune's lose the game effect is not an "until end of turn" effect (which ending the turn does not stop). It is a delayed triggered ability that occurs on the end step of the extra turn that gets created. When you end the turn with Obeka you skip all steps and phases from where you are and move straight to the cleanup step of the turn, which means you skip the end step. Since Final Fortune only cares about the end step of the turn that is created rather than the next end step you arrive at, then you can activate Obeka anywhere during that extra turn to save yourself from losing the game. Part of the worry presented in the video is that you need to use Obeka at a precise time, but that actually isn't the case as OP pointed out. To really stop Obeka people need multiple removal spells available at one time.
My favorite (non-infinite) Obeka combo is Rionya, Fire Dancer + Blood Hound. Let your opponents choose between not attacking you & giving you a bunch of 30/30 doggos.
I knew Obeka was a kind of ridiculous commander with those time shenanigans, but I didn't think it was THAT absurd. I knew someone was going to find some infinite combo with her, while I just wanted to make a bunch of copy tokens to stay around longer than they're supposed to.
I want a permanent Insurrection. Especially if I can make all permanents into creatures first. Absolutely silly, but the idea of sitting on a mountain of cards makes me smile. Edit: of course this doesn't actually work, but I wish it did
Great video, thanks Olivia and Spikes, a member of play group was going to build this so now I can stop them. Could you please explain the underworld breach, Led and brain freeze combo? Critical mass of spells in graveyard to know when to shut it down etc
Composite Golem Kenrith playlines - Nim Deathmantle or a Training Grounds effect. Composite Golem is also able to go off with Purphoros / Impact Tremors.
Sudden Substitution the final fortune, giving it to someone else killing them on the end of their gifted turn if im not mistaken. This can be done with glorious end too.
So I doubt you will cover this since it's a real old one but the combo better known as Pickle Jar which is just a Brine Elemental and a Vesuvan Shapeshifter. It was one of my favorite combos and one of the only game over style combos I ever ran.
I had a question about this ability. It could be argued that the end of turn is when the turn ends and it doesn't matter whether or not you play through all the phases. If you read Obeka it clearly states that 'end of turn' effects end. I think this means that end of turn effects trigger right away. If this is not the case then spells like overrun have a permanent effect.
If Overrun resolves and then Obeka ends the turn, the Overrun effects ends because "until end of turn" effects don't specify step/phase, so whenever the turn ends, the effect ends. What Obeka lets you do is end the turn before the "end phase", so effects that say "at the beggining of the end phase" don't trigger because you skip the phase (FInal Fortune has errata in its oracle text)
no, theres a few differences on some effects. The ones that says "until end of turn" ends, as the turn was ended (Here fits Overrun). But there are also effects that triggeres at the beggining of your end step (See Desolation) or have a delayed trigger, like the aforementioned Final Fortune, that have a trigger that will only resolve during the end step. Note that you should wait for the end step in order for those triggers to go on the stack and then get cleaned by obeka, otherwise some of this delayed triggers can wait until your next end step or somebody else end step and still resolve. (This again, depends on what the card says)
It's kind hard to spot but also "Lavinia Azoius renegade" easily stops this combo, when you try to cast the imprinted spell, you are asting it without paying its mana cost, therefore lavinia will counter it.
Arena of the ancients a card i can almost guarentee most people have ever seen let alone used in their pods because of how counter intuitive it is to commander format. But it is really funny when you drop it and suddenly voltron commanders no longer work nor any commanders with tap abilities. Or any legendary combo pieces that require to tap.
@@nooscaboose2632 yes but we're assuming we have obeka on the field, so we'll just keep delaying the sacrifice until you either win, or run out cards in graveyard
@@skykur perhaps I didn't make it clear enough in my original comment, but the idea is that your using underworld breach and final fortune with obeka to take a non infinite but still fairly large number of turns in a row. It's not that it won't trigger on your oponnent end step, it's that hopefully they won't be getting an end step
The thing I hate most about this combo, and have always hated since I became aware of it with Sundial, is that the combo relies upon Final Fortune's Gatherer Errata and no one ever bothers to mention it. It's even more obnoxious than the combo since Final Fortune's End Step Clause doesn't matter for most situations, so there's no reason to memorize it. I just wish that people would actually explain why the combo works when explaining the combo. Fewer arguments that way.
There is no need really. The errata the card received was not a functional errata. It worked like this prior to the wording change. It's a similar errata to Gifts Ungiven, in that the errata more clearly spells out what you can do with the card, but doesn't actually change anything about the card. Final Fortune was always a delayed triggered ability, but for those who were uninformed, "at end of turn" is indistinguishable in functiinality from "until end of turn".
@@connorhamilton5707 Which is exactly why it's worth mentioning since its not obvious. Not everyone is an experienced player, and even experienced players don't always remember every bit of errata. As for how important the errata is, I have neither the qualifications nor the interest to debate you.
Didn't Olivia saythat ending the turn REMOVES "until end of turn effects"? So, you can remove Final Fortine's bad effect before it goes on the stack. Do I have that right?
At end of turn/At the beginning of the next end step effects are delayed triggered abilities, so yes Obeka can stop them on the stack. This turn/Until end of turn effects will still end.
Can someone please explain to me how this combo works? I don't understand and I'm so confused at why "end the turn" doesn't mean "ending the turn" in this instance - it feels like you're picking and choosing which part of the spell to do and are ignoring another piece. It says you lose the game at end of turn.. then you END the turn.. Your turn HAS to end, right? Therefore the turn ends and you should lose, HOWEVER, it says Ignore all spells and abilities therefore you won't lose.. but then you also shouldn't take another turn after. How is it that you can chose to take a new turn but chose not to suffer the second effect of the card? Does "End the Turn" not end the turn? Does that mean your turn never ends and therefore it would never go onto the next player?
Final Fortune creates a delayed trigger that happens at the beginning of your next end step. If you wait until the lose the game trigger is on the stack and end the turn, the trigger is exiled as we explained in the video. If you end the turn before the trigger is on the stack the turn ends and you don't get an end step, so you still don't lose.
But wait.. I'm currently making an obeka deck, and took out a bunch of "till end of turn" cards out because I was told that her ability would just skip ahead to the end of turn and those would still trigger? I was told that the card has to say, "at the beginning of your end step"? Or something along those lines? Were they wrong?
I probably should have mentioned this in the video, but Obeka does not skip to your end step. It executes the 4 actions written in the ability's reminder text and the next thing that happens is the next player untapping. "Until end of turn" effects will wear off but things that trigger in your end step will not trigger if you activate Obeka before your end step.
@@TheSpikeFeeders okay, so I just wanna make sure I grasp it, fully. Say I play a Dominus of Fealty, I can steal any permanent on my upkeep, tap obeka before my end step and keep said permanent?
It will not. This is from Sundial of the Infinite's rulings: If Sundial of the Infinite’s ability is activated before the end step, any “at the beginning of the end step”-triggered abilities won’t get the chance to trigger that turn because the end step is skipped. Those abilities will trigger at the beginning of the end step of the next turn. The same is true of abilities that trigger at the beginning of other phases or steps (except upkeep).
I would do it on the 2nd turn so the player can choose to not skip in which case they get their creature back and then lose the game or they skip and they have 1 turn to not lose that game. Assuming I got the rules right.
At the end of your turn you lose the game but you can use obeka To end your turn but that’s not the end of the turn it’s just obeka ending the turn yeah makes sense
The wording on the card was from before the steps and phases got updated to be more consistent and understandable. Final Fortune and other cards that used the words "at end of turn" were updated to say "at the beginning of the end step" (modified as appropriate for the text on the card. Final Fortune says "at the beginning of that turns end step" for example) as that is the part of the end phase where stuff can still happen. After that is the cleanup step where discarding to hand size, removing damage marked on creatures, and "until end of turn" effects end. Usually no one gets priority during this step so no actions can be taken. It is very important to note that this is not, and never was, a functional change. The end step was called the end of turn step before. This part of the update was more for clarification to help people recognize the difference between the cards that previously said "at end of turn" and the cards that say "until end of turn".
Many people are actually enjoy infinite or self sufficient combos. It depends on the table you are at. As well, even more people enjoy stopping a player from going infinite. Stopping someone with a well timed counter or piece of removal is entertaining. Now, if you don't like infinites, that's perfectly fine, and more power to you. But keep in mind, many people do disagree with you. (Note, I'm a fan of being the player who stops an infinite, personally)
its subjective yeah just play with appropriate power level man.. youre on SPIKE feeders. these guys will do anything to win as they are spikes by definition ur a dumdum
Why is the lady always mentioned with 2 surnames in every video she's in? Does she ask for it? It's kinda weird, here where I live is seen as a kind of leftover from the noble class, so it comes across as snobbish.
I think that is her last name. It just has a hyphen. I would also not be surprised if there was a choice to not take someone else's last name in marriage but I can't speak for that.
