I successfully bought a dual-z stepper motor and timing belt for my Ender 3 V2. I upgraded to Professional Firmware and now I have a very accurate leveled bed that does not require maintenance. Prints are successful and I am producing square test cubes. This was a big and necessary improvement. Thanks to you for doing this video.
I've been running the dual stepper setup with POM anti-backlash nuts for about two months with really good results. So far, they've stayed in sync and I haven't had any issues with the setup. It's probably a bit of an overkill on a stock Ender 3 but I recently installed the PrinterMods direct drive kit and have a 400mm Ender Extender kit on the shelf waiting to be installed. That's the sort of thing that happens when I'm left unsupervised for too long.
could you show me a picture on how and in which direction you've mounted those POM anti-backlash nuts please? I have em installed on my dual z setup as weell.. but 1 is pointing upwards, the other one down wards... not suree how it should be :S (i'm running dual z on 1 stepper motor)
@@morbftw I would post a picture for you but I can't and shouldn't post pictures or links in My Tech Fun comments section. With Dr. Gaspar's permission, I would recommend you do a video search for "BV3D anti-backlash nut". Both sides should be installed with the spring and compressed nut assembly pointing down. Do not over-tighten the screws holding the nut assembly to the plate. Slightly snug works best. The Creality mounting plates are not formed very well and it's easy to bind your z screw if you tighten the screws too much.
I’m literally in the same exact boat as you bud. All of those upgrades plus an enclosure with lights, air filter fans, octopi touchscreen…. I think I might just have to get a voron lol
If you want to check if an angle is 90 deg but you cannot use some sort of angle measurement device you can use the 3-4-5 method. mark a point 3 length units away from the corner on one side and a point 4 units away from the corner on the other side and then measure the distance between the two points. If it is 5 lu the angle is 90 deg. :)
Very interesting........I'm also doing an upgrade on my E3 to twin screws but I'm fitting the Z axis stepper motor to the top of the frame cross bar in the middle to drive 2 short belts to the screws instead of the long belt with tensioner that you have. The pulley on the stepper motor is a double one with 2 sets of drive teeth, one above the other,..... that way you don't lose Z axis height due to the motor you have hitting under the bearing block. I'm also fitting small ball thrust bearings between both faces of the drive pulleys on both sides of the screws to prevent face contact friction from the thrust of the screws.
@@MacAdder1965 Nope , not yet, the plan is to make it more reliable......my main interest is CNC milling and I'm currently into more things than I can do in one day, but it will happen eventually.
The ballerinas got my subscription, even though I have purchased the dual motor version. Thanks for great videos with good instructions and wonderful humor!
Thanks for providing so much detail on this modification. I will try this on my Ender 3 with 400mm extender using the CR-10 parts and look for the 616mm belt.
For anyone doing this, don't tighten your beld to hard. They need to be somewhat loose to not have to much tenting. This will cause friction and more load on the stepper, it will not improve print quality haveing it tight to the max.
I have on my very old K8200 solution with 2 x T10 screws + BT2 belt and never had problem... 2 stepper motors powered parallel is always a risk for desync. The belt is the belt.
I installed an ender extender 400 kit. Decided to go dual motors WITH a belt to keep them in sync. Waiting on the last parts to show up, hopefully it works out.
@@MyTechFun Yeah I actually went about it by ordering a single motor, belt driven kit. Then, since I swapped to a direct drive unit, I replaced my stock 42-34 Y motor with the 42-40 extruder motor, then used that 42-34 motor from the Y as my second Z motor. So all I needed to buy was a new pulley for the Y and a screw coupler for the second Z motor. The larger Y motor should help move the 400x400 bed anyway. Working out some slight binding issues but looks like it will work great. It is tough to get these parts perfectly aligned.
I don't really like having belt on top of the gantry, therefore on my CR-10 I've put it right below top holders. Works just as fine and it's a bit more aesthetically pleasing.
Hardest part for my dual z axis upgrade was probably melting the hot glue creality used to hold the wires to the board. But thats just because I was scared to burn my electronics.
I planned to install this mod, but after checking the screw, I didn't. The screw is pretty much just a mess, not straight at all. When you roll it on a flat surface and can shove a 0.8 feeler gauge under it, you know its "screwed". But losen the holder a bit on the Extruder Mount and use a backlash nut helped to get acceptable results. When you try to make this screw a fixed one and worse 2 fixed ones, you could end up with less money and bad quality prints. Belt driven z axis is easier and more reliable, with linear rails, you will have better results. But that's what I would use. The great thing with such printers is, you can test it and it works or not (if you print your stuff yourself)
Banggood shipment of the timing belt Z-Axis arrived finally. I had the item for a couple days until I found time today to work on installing (with your video help) it on my Ender 3 V2. I quickly realized they sent the wrong product. Only a single standard Ender 3 V2 lead screw (length) and no timing belt, pulleys or center bracket with pulley. So I'll have to make due for another couple weeks. Hopefully Banggood will refund or exchange this item for the correct product. I ordered it on June 25th and it took until now to arrive.
Banggood finally offered to return my money for the Dual Z kit that arrived with one lead screw and no timing belt or pulleys if I returned the package to China. To do this would cost $30 via traceable carrier and so I would only get $10 back. Based on Banggood's sketchy customer service and multiple delaying issues on Banggood's part I have decided not to use Chinese merchants going forward unless thru Amazon or eBay which have good protections for customers.
Personally I would just use printed lead screw mounts and put the pulley wheels under them, using the same lead screws. Cost is just for pulley wheels, belt and mounts. Seems you lose head height anyway so might as well save money.
Wouldn't it be nice if the dual stepper motor setup was anble to incorporate dual z axis limit switches. Of course that would require a firmware change along with the use of another input port.
I am here because of the bed problem that is constantly falling apart and I cannot adjust it precisely. To solve it, I always focused on the bed at first. I tried hard springs, silicone springs but it didn't work. Then I aimed my target on the X-axis tilt angle. Even though I struggled a lot with the wheel setting, it didn't turn out the way I wanted. I realized that it was a mistake to buy a machine that works with a single Z rod. I ordered the 32 tooth pulley and 640mm belt combination. I hope my calculation is not wrong.
You have the equation in video (but you must know the diameter of pulley) and it is safer if you buy longer belt, you can always use tensioner(s). You have a problem if it is shorter.
@@MyTechFun I made a calculation. I also took into account the diameter of the pulley I bought. For 288mm distance, 32 tooth pulley and 640mm belt are just right. If the belt is short, I adjust it via the shaft position. I will print the holder parts myself. But even if fully suit, even so I plan to create some tension with an idler pulley system with a spring added.
I got Fysetc kit, which has bearing holders above top extrusion (keeps almost full Z height) and spacers between bearings and pullies. I thought of adding another stepper motor or bearing at the bottom to pull the lead screw down, but I'll try first with your screw holder (never got myself to tinkercadding one 😄)👍
Greetings! I stumbled across your videos while researching my EP3 V2. I am still new to the craft, but no stranger to electronics or mechanics. I am thinking ahead to getting a direct drive for what I want to print. Anyway, towards the end of the video, you seemed to be hinting towards something I was thinking about when you said you were considering a "combination" of both the belt/pulley and the dual steppers. Besides possible mounting issues I could see a potential benefit to having both of doable. Having not seen them in person and with my limited experience, I could only speculate... poorly. It could also just be overkill and/or end up causing new problems. If this was what you were thinking about doing, I was wondering if you could elaborate or do a video on it? No rush, it will be some time before I am ready to do the upgrade, but I want to have a good idea of what I am doing well before hand so I can plan accordingly. Thanks for the videos btw. I have enjoyed them.
Top tip if you want to do fast colour changes on the fly by hand, Buy the Creality E-fit extruder and a Spider v2 or similar hotend. I fitted them to my Kingroon kp3s which originally used E3D blatant copies. Yes the E-fit is on the older side but its so simple and dont go wrong.
Thanks for the great and insightful video! Would it be possible to combine the 2 methods to create and even better solution? The mechanical and the stepper upgrades I mean.
I did this and motors run ok until I lock the brass nuts to the bar. the brass nuts slide down freely, the bar goes up and own freely without the bras nuts. The screws seem square and are not wobbling. I added the belt to bind the 2 axis together but it seems to make things worse.
Since you are mechanical engineer maybe you should measure current draw with one motor and one screw, two screws and two motors, and two screws and one motor and pulley. I don't know whats the limit of the driver for the Z motor. So are any of these mods, maybe stressing driver to much. This is maybe ok now, but what will happen when you add weight on axis like direct drive. Since these things can print for days it would be nice to know. Again I am telling this only because I see you have the knowledge to do soo. Anyway love your channel and you have new subscriber.
Usually mechanical engineers don't like to mess with electronic (at least those in my surroundings). But yes, I work a lot with electronic, so far I measured only the heating of the stepper during longer printing, almost no difference. I also measured the torque, 5% more with timing belt. That's not much. I will try to measure changes when I will have direct drive installed. Thx for the tip. Hvala Zorane. Pozdrav
Yes. A lot of new printers have this solution. Only one is better: two independent stepper motors and then using BL Touch, printer can level the gantry itself.
My stock z wire was SO difficult to remove from the motherboard when installing the dual z upgrade. I thought I was going to break a solder joint or possibly something worse!
I was leaning towards the dual stepper solution, but I hadn't thought of them potentially getting out of sync. Dual z endstops would probably be good, but I don't know if the Creality v4.2.2 board supports that, and it seems complicated to mix microswitch endstops and a BLTouch, so the pulley solution just seemed overall easier in the end. Used your referral link :) Going to replace the tiny z stepper with the larger e stepper after I upgrade to a more efficient direct drive, so it will maybe be just as strong as two of the smaller steppers
really nice work overall! but at 14:23 you are calculating with a measurement error. if everyting is aligned perfectly, the center of the two rods have a distance of 290mm (2 times the distance between the alu extrusions + 4 times half of the alu extrusion width). so the minimum length of the belt has to be: 250*2+20*4+12*pi=617,7. the belt is too short.
That's why I calculated with measured values. It is not guaranteed that screw is 100% at the center of alu extrusion. Center to center distance 2x and two half circle perimeters (= one circle perimeter). But yes, it is always better if belt is longer, because we can use tensioners. Too short is much bigger problem.
I don't know. Depend of the belt length (distance of two lead screws+pulley diameter). But I think most critical is the passive block with nut for the second screw. Not sure if it can be mounted to LK4, holes for screw may be different.
Very good instructional video, thanks for sharing. I have carried out this mod on my Athorbot Brother printer but I have left both stepper motors still connected mechanically and electrically. Can you please explain why it is necessary to remove one of the other stepper motors?
It is not necessary. There are two systems. One is timing belt (presented in this video), the other one is with second stepper motor. The best is combination of two as you have
Hello!! very good video, I saw it and convinced me to make this modification on my Ender 3 Max, but I have a question, have you already tried to make the modification of the two Z axes with the belt and with the second motor at the same time? I did it and I am having problems because the motors do not synchronize, I had to leave only the belt system and the second motor disconnected
@@MyTechFun do you plan to do it in the future? I've searched all over the internet and I can't find any information to combine these two synchronized methods, it would be a good idea for a video! greetings and thank you very much for answering
Im considering to upgrade with dual z screw with stepper. and upgrade my main board to one that can support another Z Axis motor. so i can indivdual move either of the axis to align the X axis to the build plate.
Great video: when you said you will use a combination of the two systems: did you mean that the one printer will have both dual stepper motor ‘and’ the pulley system? Is that possible?Thanks - Frank S.
Does the BL Touch / Auto Bed Levelling still work when using dual Z stepper motors? I can't see why not, but I read a post that indicated it didn't, so now I'd like to be sure but can't find any information on it.
You assume the crossbeam is exactly the same height each side when levelling using the crossbeam. Surely moving the belt on one side, one tooth at a time would work?
Now you've shown the z-limit problem with the extruder I may print myself alternative holders, as I've got the dual-stepper upgrade ordered and assume those were the same?
The top holders for lead screw are NOT the same with dual stepper and pulley system. The dual stepper can be used even without those holders. The ball bearing moves so screw can freely bend 1-2 mm. In pulley system, the top ball bearing is strongly in one place.
What outer diameter for the bearing did you choose? Would one 8x22x7mm be good? Could you share the parts you attach to the bearing? Thanks a lot, all your videos are great
hi! Thanks for the great video (also the one on the dual stepper setup) Just ordered a similar setup. Would you recommend adding a guide (like the ones at the top) at the bottom of the new lead screw, so it can't wobble? or is the x gantry enough, even if it is close to the top of the printer?
@@MyTechFun micro swiss isn't an extruder nor is it strictly direct drive, @imacmill There are multiple direct drive extruders for the e3v2, the bondtech BMG, the e3d titan, even the original Bowden can be modified into direct drive with a longer stepper motor cable.
Ender 3 V2 with synced dual Z steppers and BL Touch OR Prusa Mini+? The print size is not the most important point, I just want the most clean prints. What do the pros say? I need to decide :)
Prusa Mini+ I think the biggest difference is that it can print safely up to 280°C (with Ender3 up to 240°C). With this you can use more interesting filaments later (but start with PLA first to get experience)
I have fitted the z axis kit with the two motors and I think that the two motors moved out of sync and there were two white flashes and some magic smoke left the control panel and the original stepper motor , then everything stopped and the Ender died ? So now I must try and find the problems . Im thinking that this mechanical solution is possibly more reliable.
Dual stepper, but pay more attention to bed leveling. Don't move Z when stepper is off. If you will have problems, you can add timing belt later (top holders are on thingiverse too)
@@MyTechFun There are no quality improvements for the dual stepper variant, so the belt variant is safer. The steppers for some reasons could lose steps so that could ruin your print. On the belt variant you only have to tight the pulley screws for 2-3 times until they will sit well on the rod, and after that no other issue will occur, except that you indeed need to stop the right side rod to go up. I used for this a bearing with screws on the inner axis. Nice that you have notice that problem so quick, I needed few days.
Hi, i know this is an older video BUT hope you could give some advice. the newer Creality ender 3 max neo uses a dual motor AND timing belt, i was thinking of upgrading my ender 3 v2to dual motor but am wondering if there is any added benefit to adding a timing belt as well? which option would be best? dual motor with NO belt, single motor with belt OR dual motor AND belt (like the max neo has)?
@@WarpaintStudios I’m struggling with dual motors. The right side is out of synced from time to time. I’m replacing it with belt as I type. I’m just wondering why there’s no one put both dual motors and belt together.
I installed the dual motor style but became very frustrated because as you mentioned when powered off they always got messed up and was always leveling the bed going to add a belt to the duel motors
hello, in your next video i heard that you were planning to combine both z axis kits. did you have a chance to do it. i mean dual motor&belt together dual-z. this is what i exactly planning to do...
Not yet, but it is easy. Start with this timing belt system. And at the end add stepper motor and cable (instruction is in other video). My problem is that, in the meantime, I used the stepper in one of my Arduino projects, so I have to order another one :-(
I bought a kit very similar to that one and I keep having the side without the motors lead screw shifting up over prints. How would I fix such an issue thanks.
I tried to answer in video. Two steppers are better, but may move if they are not powered. If you can pay attention to that, go with 2 steppers. If not, version with timing belt is almost good as two steppers, but it will stay in synchron even if power is off.
ordered this and the timing belt was to long, like a cm or 2 to long, banggood customer support is crappy and says i added the timing belt myself (like how its part of the kit) where can i buy a timing belt that fits?
Too long timing belt is not so big problem. Much bigger problem is if it is too short. To long can be compensated with tensioner (that part in the middle). If the provided tensioner is too small, you can print one (or two)
Double stepper motor is more precise, but may move if powered off. Timing belt less precise but it hold the synch even when powered off. That's why two together is the best.
Hi, where i live i cannot get the upgrade, i have the parts instead, what size/teeth these pulleys had? because i can only get a belt of 600 or 610mm. I think maybe 16 pulley with 610mm belt can do it)?
You can calculate it, measure the diameter of the pulley, D*PI + 2*axial distance (+few mm for safety, you will fix additional length with tensioner), 610mm may be too short, but there is a chance that GT2 16T (with 9.7mm diameter) will be enough. In video from 14:04
@@MyTechFun Thx a lot, i think 16t + the 610mm belt can go right, if not, i think i could run a smaller pulley with a tensioner, cheers from Argentina, and really, thx for the reply, i'ts really helpful
Since I was going for direct drive I was wondering which option to go for as well. I'm keen on the pulley system but perhaps paired with a stronger stepper just in case. Would the printer handle the power needed. How harder is it for the stepper on that setup?
I have this mod since a while and I can tell you that if the setup is good, there are no problems for the stepper to handle the z axis. Be careful to have a 616mm belt to use it without tensioner, or a bit larger if you want to use the tensioner. My kit came with 610mm belt and because of that I couldn't rise up to the maximum the z axis, because the leadscrews tend to bend and stop the carriage. After purchasing a 616mm belt everything works fine.
@@MyTechFun lol thanks for responding I have just purchased the timing belt after watching your video, since I had already purchased the second z stepper motor I was considering that to be a issue not to minchin I was also considering the weight of the direct feeding from bondtech and the mosquito hot end as a later problem
I agree. Don't forget, top holders are not equal. With two stepper kit, top holders for screw are not tight, they give some freedom of moving. With timing belt, you need top of the screw locked in position (only rotating is allowed)
@@MyTechFun thanks, one quck question you dident answer in the video. if you only had to chose one of the upgrades would it be the one with belt or the one with motor?
Hmmm, én ezt megcsináltam annyi módosítással hogy másik csapágytartót készítettem és 2-2 csapágyat tettem bele mert a szíj sajnos állandóan szét feszítette az orsót, állandóan súrlódott az anyán és lehetetlen volt beállítani. 1 hetes kísérletezés után visszaszereltem az eredeti állapotba mert hiába volt kettős csapágy a szíj feszítéstől nem ment olyan finoman mint előtte. Két motort nem akarok felszerelni mert még mindig bowdenos a gépem (Ender3pro) és ha jól van beállítva a Z görgők akkor semmi gond. Ha majd directdrive extrudert szerelek fel és akkor a két motort választom bár tudom hogy azzal is van macera mert ha nincs motoráram akkor elmászhat a két orsó szinkronja. Majdnem elfelejtettem mondani hogy tetszenek a videóid, sokaknak tanulságos, és nekem is.
Does anyone make this kit for CR10? All I can find is dual stepper versions. I don’t want dual stepper, I want this version with single stepper and pulleys.
