Energy storage in oxygen 

It is important to focus on the stationary storage market. Most people immediately think of cars when you mention new battery technology, but they are unaware of just how vital online, long term storage is for creating a sustainable, reliable grid. Keep up the reports on this good stuff, Mr. Borlace.

Happy Father's day to all. This man has the best show on the subject.

Hey ma man don't beat your self up for thinking you sound repetitive. I couldn't care less how many times your articles may sound the same, if they even did. I come here to hear your delivery of information. and after all, to me you are my energy info guy. This is the type of stuff I'm interested in. Your manner of story telling is southing and still in a sense, unique in every episode. Despite how you may feel, you are doing great. Keep up the good work.

As a complete layman, only real thought I have is the crushing cynicism of business and monetization being the real road blocks of society achieving any of these energy solutions. I want to be optimistic, so I come here and watch and learn about all these cool technologies, so yes please keep it coming. New tech, lab or otherwise, are big up lifting topics. Just got to remember that behind every negative cynic criticism is a *very* disappointed idealist.

More options chasing a finite amount of storage we need is excellent, a healthy competition of alternatives breathing down the neck of the established players improves the playing field for everyone 😊

We will certainly need more of these alternate battery chemistries for stationary energy storage to take the pressure off scarce elements like Li which will be needed for mobile applications requiring high energy densities such as vehicles, aircraft, etc. The green energy revolution will need massive amounts of stationary storage capacity along with an improved grid.

I for one appreciate the fact that this channel exists as a reconnaissance of energy technology. Will all these technologies come to market at scale? No. But that's not the point. The point is to provide a view of the breadth of research and technologies in the energy sector. In that role this channel is excellent. I would recommend Mr. Borlace do a quick video on Technology Readiness Levels (TRL). This might help casual viewers to get a better understanding of the types of technology being discussed. My assessment is most of the technology is somewhere between TRL 3 and 5. Having that context might provide some viewers with a better sense of where the channel adds value.

thank you again as always for Sunday uploads. Every Sunday I look forward to the evening to see what your videos are going to contain

I'm encouraged to see all the approaches to stationary storage. (Thanks for the useful term!) It's good to see all the approaches to solving the major hurdle to a renewably powered world.

It’s always impressive just how resourceful humanity is becoming in finding multiple solution to our energy supply chain. Great channel. Keep up the good work. 👍

I love to hear about new game changing disruptive technology! Thanks Dave, enlightening has always!

Thanks Dave! Always amazed and inspired by human ingenuity... Really appreciate what you discover and share

I’m glad you are highlighting the fact that stationary storage has different requirements than what’s required for a car, cell phone, or laptop. The ground doesn’t care how heavy it is. (within reason)

Thanks for keeping us up to speed. Good use of O2 which is ambient and easily concentrated for this Vienna power storage. We need smart investment to get Regenerative Oxygen Ion battery into a commercial product

One very important comparison is how much energy is lost when storing/regenerating, compared to well-know techniques like pumped hydro, or storage in hot stones.

Every time I see a pic of one (or more) of those tri-bladed wind tubines, it really bugs me as to why the vertical axis turbine isn't more popular and more pervasive, considering their footprint, ease of production and maintenance, etc, along w/ the added benefit of being more bird friendly. Your segment about placing such turbines along the highways was an idea I had been percolating for some years and had actually proposed to my State and Federal energy departments and seems like such a no-brainer for increased energy independence.

Love your work Dave❣️

Another amazing video, Dave! Thanks for keeping us abreast of the new technologies. Cheers!

Your channel is the best Renewable Channel there is so you: Don't need to be apologizing for Anything ! You don't need to be recounting the Renewable paradigm and I'm sure the majority of your viewers are well aware ! Ignore the detractors who may be Trolling you, WE know and we like , no love , your channel and look forward to every Sunday ! Keep on keeping On, be confident, just Game Change us all you want !

Excellent video with valuable information. Carry on, sir! 😊

@2:52 "My research, over 54 years, has taught me that there's quite a lot more oxygen available on this planet than there is lithium" Hands down one of the best lines I've heard on this channel, I'd sub all over again if it could bring in more followers for this channel.

If it's not ground breaking or game changing, were not interested. Energy tech is so hot!

The coffee stained periodic table was a nice touch😊

Excellent work as always and this looks exceedingly positive... I especially appreciate the list of Storage Options. Those possibilities are regardless of this potential are going to help immensely in on site specific solutions. And we all know or lets say 85% or more know how important this is.

Great video! I was an original Real Goods supporter back in the late 70s. So, every time I see your videos, I do a happy dance for alternative (now main stream) energy 🎉 So many choices. We have everything we need on earth to sustainably generate abundant clean energy.

I do still like the concept of the gravity batteries purely because of the simplicity, have recently seen a gravity battery/flywheel hybrid which was an interesting pairing.

I know this is such a petty, useless comment, but you are so cool for making all this content. One of the few channels that truly gives me hope for the future.

Great presentation...thanks. it made me "just have a think" about battery storage that I've seen regarding tesla system storage in South Australia. I believe it was 100gw but not sure. It has enabled them to change over from coal. Got to be the way forward, even though some had doubts.

Lol, I love the intro. Love this guy. Thanks for an amazing video.

I like the idea of sand batteries and sterling engines or some other electric generator using heat up to about 500 degrees C

Thank you for making the topic entertaining and easy to understand. Cheers :)

Energy storage needs way more attention from governments. When energy storage is in use, a coal or gasplant will become less cost efficient.

I am too lazy to log into patreon so here you go

Soul Patch Dave is way cooler than regular Dave.

I still think the CO2 battery is an excellent solution for grid storage. Seems simple enough (and many times that mean cheap) and with a longer life than any chemical or solid state battery. AND it has already been put to work.

Trusting everybody who has comments remembered to hit the like button. I *like* these podcasts!

Great video, Dave, more solutions in the mix, feels like the cusp of a new age!

Just love that channel. Guessing by his accent, this man is from the English Midlands and is therefore a genius.

Well done Dave Borlace. Thanks

That coffee stain effect on the periodic table was nice. Haha

As always, another interesting presentation!

Always interesting thanks again

Thank you, as always!

Another Sunday, another wonderful video from Just Have A Think. Thank you for all that you do, Dave. I've learned so much from this channel. And my goodness there are a lot of different battery designs! I'd no idea how many, until you listed your previous videos on the subject at the end of this one. They'd make a great playlist. The oxygen-ion battery isn't perfect, but I guess it's better than moving rail cars up a hill. The operating temperature of 200-400 C is a wrinkle, but designs like the liquid metal battery or molten salt require far more heat. It seems like this design is very middle of the road, with the very real advantages of being made from relatively common materials and being almost infinitely rechargeable. The long, long life of the battery would certainly be a plus for power stations. Just put some big boxes in there next to the transformers and keep them hot. No need to worry about ripping them out after 10 000 cycles or whatever, just let some fresh air into them and keep going.

Diversification! Thank you for the update.

another interesting video, thasnkyou

I can't help thinking that the complexity caused by the stable temperature issue will keep this admittedly ingenious system from the mainstream where simplicity, cost per KwH and low maintenance will bee the winning features.

Thank you Dave.

6:00 In stationary applications it's just a matter to reach a critical mass inside a thermal insulated installation. There's for sure a sure a break even thermal point caused by the heath produced by the mere working of the device. Above that point you'll have to cool the batteries.

Lithium mining and usage ultimately needs to stop . So hearing about new technologies is very good . Love your videos

Always keen to hear about these “breakthroughs” whether or not they come to fruition. Glad to see you beginning to curtail the seemingly obligatory intro about solar/wind intermittency and the need for storage. For most of us here this is unnecessary.

As you have said, the one thing tonight’s broadcast has shown is that there no shortage of alternatives to expensive lithium-ion batteries for energy storage, for when weather generated energy is in short supply, even if most are still lab based and requiring exacting chemical conditions, or extreme temperatures or pressures. There is one option that you do not appear to have covered which from what little I know would seem to be ideal for the 6 hours to 48 hours segment, the carbon dioxide battery (Energy Dome) basically, a closed loop system where a large quantity of carbon dioxide is repeatedly compressed with surplus energy, then allowed to expand to generate electricity, but best of all there is no Hughley complicated cryogenics system, and it is made from off the shelf engineering components, which should make the system affordable and easy to replicate, the only drawback I can see is the large size of the dome, but I am certain these could be accommodated at old coal fired power stations waiting to be decommissioned, the dome could fit where the coal was once stored, plus the transmission line would already be in place, so, we would be reusing an existing site, in most cases simplicity beats complexity. Of course, for long-term energy storage we would have to look at green chemical energy storage systems like green Hydrogen and green Ammonia. But for the moment a lack of energy storage is not the problem, it is the lack of renewable generation, which is being held back by huge delays in the planning process, and access to grid connections for wind and solar farms and tidal barriers

Loving the self awareness

Now I am dizzy from the rotating episode badges at the end of this interesting and informative episode!

Most self aware battery RU-vidr

Fantastic video as always Dave, stationary batteries are something i'm waiting on, I'm hoping in the next 5 years new solar cell tech along with new storage batteries can lead me to remove 99% of my energy bills and be able to give me the final excuse I need to get a fully eletric car.

Great video as per usual. I don't know if anyone else is mentioning this, but I think your longer videos actually work better. I mean, if you've got nothing else to say on a topic, that's fine, but it's really interesting when you do deeper dives into topics (even an extra 5 minutes would be awesome). Maybe it's just my own preference for longer videos, but I think your viewers have the attention-span to appreciate the extra length. All the development of these brilliant battery options is really inspiring. Batteries for EV's tend to get a lot of spotlight and funding, but clearly these stationary storage options are far more important for our actual clean energy future, so seeing new developments is always especially interesting. Honestly, I just wish our governments would fund more of these projects and help push their market adoption with supporting businesses. Quite a few governments are doing this to a certain extent, but many could really could do far more...I mean has anyone seen the US defence budget?

Looks ideal for a project that needs a long term battery solution. Space is also unlimited in outer space. Then if you need oxygen out there, you could just split the water molecule. Gotta have something reliable for that long mission to Mars.

For utility scale storage, size and weight is not as important as round trip efficiency, cost of storing a megawatt hour, and how long you can store it. Just look at Lake Meade. Very big and heavy, and also very useful.

more hope is always beneficial

I wonder if you could combine with a thermal battery - using heat up to the required level and keeping the excess in thermal storage.

I think you may be missing the point that in these extremely high temperature battery cells it is the ionic transport itself that causes the heating of the cell, and there fore as long as you initially heat it and keep the cells well insulated against thermal loss they will stay hot enough to maintain optimum temperature merely by doing exactly what they are designed for. ie charging during active sun or wind, and discharging during low to zero sun or wind. These ultra high capacity cells will become the backbone of solid state grid storage - though other sources may well end up filling out the rest merely due to cost.

You can think of energy required to keep the battery hot, as a form of energy loss from storage. Most forms of energy storage have loss over time, a "self discharge".

Lithium type batteries are satisfactory for short term frequency stability control where we’re not looking for huge storage capacity but need a good ability for power absorption or production. Possibly they can be feasible for diurnal cover for solar plants. The next big focus really needs to be on seasonal storage - taking solar power in the summer and keeping it for winter when solar production is low and demand is high. Wind is typically stronger in winter, but is still intermittent - a blocking high pressure area can all but close it down for weeks at a time mid-winter when it’s most needed.

Mobile vs Immobile? Gets to the heart of the matter. Anyway such batteries which one would think wouldn't need to move often, like Tesla megapacks, have a very important niche use case for making them mobile. Tesla even sells a product like that. The Supercharger truck. Useful to provide charging facilities to off grid operations. So we might as well add "semi-mobile".

I just had a thought... A Tesla valve, a large chamber, and a wind turbine that is optimized for high pressure. A wind tunnel engineered to let the wind in, but not let it out. Some kind of funnel to consolidate, and bring air into the entrance, which is the Tesla valve. This would lead into a large chamber, that slowly tapers down to the turbine inlet. Could break the input into many different smaller streams of air, which should reduce the pressure of each, giving the output a greater pressure.

Awesome

It seems that every new "game changing" battery tech is compared with current Li-ion types - see chart at 9 min. We all know that there are, or soon will be, better options for long duration grid storage. Lets see a comparison video of the different technologies Dave. How do flow batteries square against Na Sulphur, liquid air, liquid metal, etc etc. And of course Li-ion tech is also advancing rapidly. The possible future tech needs to be compared with other future tech, not just current stuff, then we may be able to get an idea of which ones are likely to come out on top.

Good to have options available and not toal reliance on one thing and things are moving along anyway as Sodium is added to the melee.

If they work out seems like they'd be great to pair with district heating in cold climates. Could probably be paired with greenhouses in cold climates as well so you could grow tropical produce instead of relying importing.

Two things concerned me in your video and raised alarm bell that's 200 C and oxygen, particularly when ionised. There is a reason why batteries are generally electrically the other way round because of the dangers involved with the active elements in the right side of the periodic table, especially when the temperatures are raised.

Just watched a video from Copenhagen Atomics which have a safe innovative nuclear design with target price for 2 cents per kWh.. no storage needed. I believe it'll work all the time, even at night and when it's not windy.

Clever people huh? If the goal is to make it into your show then clever indeed. I really like your intro.

Thanks!

Sounds a bit like the rust battery, but I don't think that needed heat, though I don't remember anymore how that one worked.

If they can remove the need for Lanthanum and keep cycle count high for a reasonable cost per charge cycle, this could become a real winner. Please follow this technology and let us know how their research and production progresses. Thanks Dave. 🙂👍

Who’s the guy eating breakfast? That was pretty neat.

Using waste heat from nuclear would be a nice place for this.

With abundant enough stationary storage, large car batteries wouldn't be necessary. I really think current EVs are really overdoing it on the battery size, to the point that they are basically just spending battery to move battery around.

decades ago my father worked for the company that later became ABB, and in one of the magazines he brought home i read about sodium-sulfur batteries. are they still a thing? since both elements are solid at room temperature, those batteries also have to be heated before they can work.

There are so many companies now into battery storage. I would like to here a bit more on how many companies are now into geothermal technologies and what progress or not they are achieving ???

Thank you. I wonder what is the energy efficiency of this technology, as keeping the batteries at 200°C lowers the energy efficiency.

From my understanding, one of the main obstacles to mass adoption of intermittent energy sources is levellized cost of storage LCOS , factoring in round trip efficiency,cycle life, cost per MWh. Do you have any information how their optimistic projections compare wit other system's optimistic projections? As far as I know we're a least a factor of 10 away from a LCOS which would make intermittent sources cost competitive with conventionnal energy ?

Dave has become the BBC on climate change now, I really liked the early vids but now its just what the main stream wants to tell us.

What about putting these revolutionary stationary batteries underneath the cooling towers attached to power stations and tapping into the wasted energy leaving these? I'm thinking of vast banks of batteries stacked underneath and used at night when the demand is less and when renewables can't meet what's required due to weather conditions.

I just hope that one day someone will discover some insane battery that will revolutionize everything.

we need some wins. ie successful implementations of alt energy in practice. so far all we get from all channels is promising possibilities. we need hope.

New video idea: Do an episode on the future of gas stations after the EV transition. See: recent Rawstory article on leaky gasoline storage tanks

Open the paper in edge, use the embedded Bing chat to explain away complex concepts and formula, verify with a quick research to squash hallucinations, congrats smooth brain enhanced

I wonder what the foot print of the production and use of military vehicles and weapons is?

The rotating past episode cards at the end made me feel a bit nauseous, but I’m prone to seasickness …

So install these inside one of those sand thermal storage units?

Thank you for presenting this new (to me) battery chemistry. Be interesting to see how it compares with molten vanadium/calcium (which also run hot) and rust (which also uses oxygen as a key reactant) batteries. Now I shall make a pesky (citing yourself) comment. A fuel cell can not have an energy density. It is not a form of storage. It converts one form of energy into another, being akin to a motor or a generator, not a battery. Best regards to you!

Interesting and entertaining video as always. I do not share the optimism about longevity, at least not based on the paper mentioned. They show quite a degredation in only 10 cycles already and did not show anymore cycles. With a CE of 99.5% the cell will be desd in 100 cycles, compared to the 99.99% of Lithium ion batteries that last 5000 cycles with much hier power and energy density.

The working temperature is 400 Celcius, I've come up with this topology 10 years ago. Not easy to make an electrolyte that works in room temperature.

400 degrees Celsius that seems quite a drawback, although I'm sure with research breakthroughs can be made.

IMHO long duration grid scale storage will optimise for lifecycle cost per MWh. I'd expect this to select technologies with the minimum capacity degradation per cycle. Liquid metal batteries operate at around the same high temperature as this O2 perovskite cell, and have negligible degradation over 10,000's of cycles.

The world currently uses about 20 terawatts (TW) of electricity per day. Of this, only about 2.5% is generated from recyclable sources, such as solar, wind, and hydroelectric power. The rest is generated from fossil fuels, such as coal, oil, and natural gas. Therefore, I think the governments need to focus on ramping up the recyclable energy production.

Preovskite solar cells would probably cause an environmental landfill disaster due to their heavy metal content. But centralised storage facilities would be much easier to recycle - especially if they can be used for a very long time.

It was more than 10 years ago, when in university, that I heard of ceramic oxide carrier - based batteries… I do not know if now there has been a technological breakthrough, but certainly they are nothing new.