"the Max and Lewis issues" suggests so much mental equivalence of fault. 2021, recall this was 100% Max driving Lewis off the road without any attempt to make the corner himself, none at all. It wasn't even investigated and no penalty was given.
They didn't want Lewis to win another chip. they wanted another champion and that's it. Look at how they let it all go and even changed the rules to allow MV to win his first chip.
@@HUMC5 To me it was worse than that, they fell under pressure yes, but it was a far better scenario for a TV show if you had a new championship winner, on the last lap of a race, than an 8th time of the same old guy ...
@rosswildon8917, Who said that? Give us an example of who and when. The minute anyone no matter who is either pushed off or they do the pushing, the commentators jump on it almost acting like the F1 version of footballs VAR!
its because lewis also had dirty moments like silverstone and monza. this made them kind of like equals in how they were driving. however lando is trying to be as clean as possible yet max is just trying to put him in a wall. also max is much more experienced now and is supposed to be more mature now
@@Roeland666 Are you saying Max wouldn't have received any penalties this weekend if Tim and Johnny weren't in the stewards room? If so that would plainly be the wrong decisions, Max absolutely deserved penalties this weekend.
@Roeland666 what's your point? The implication of your post is that the penalties were a result of who the stewards were as opposed to reflecting the poor driving and decision making from Max.
Not fair 😂🤣.it was Tim Mayer’s father (Tom) who helped establish McLaren back in the day, however Tim has nothing to do with McLaren today. But I bet he has drunk the odd Red Bull in his life. Stop crying FFS. Are people complaining about a Belgium being a Steward, given that MV is 50% Belgium, was born in Belgium and lived in Belgium before moving to Monaco. Grow up.
@ no, but they would complain if Jos Verstappen would be a steward, wouldn’t they? Like Tim is to his father, de McLaren founder…he’s literally family😉 Better to hire people who are not linked to a team/driver…from countries who do not participate…
@ Jos isn’t capable of being a steward. He is wife beater FFS! But sure find stewards for countries who are not participating if it helps you cope. But please make sure they actually have some knowledge of the sport. The funny thing is that the only steward who was present at Austin and Mexico was actually from Belgium - so a countryman of MV. 😂🤣 However a better alternative would be drivers simply sticking to the rules they have agreed to in order that the stewards are not even required. Now there’s a thought. Radical I know, drivers not cheating and therefore the FIA not having to bother.
@ we can pretend Benetton wasn’t cheating by retaining a form of outlawed traction control for 94’… in your book Michael deliberately crashing into Damon and taking them both out was okay? Like he later did again in 96’ but was DQS from the season? Likewise I think Senna should have been DSQ from the 1990 season for smashing into Prost in the last race. But Senna should have won 1989 without the FIA interference. So they keep championship totals the same. Unlike Damon and Michael, as well as Max and Lewis.
This is also showing Horner's character. One would hope that a team principal would acknowledge and seek to address recklessly aggressive behaviour in one of his drivers.
Not really, why would he as the team has benefited so massively over recent seasons from their car being driven in this manner by Max. Until such point as the rules and interpretations of the rules, mandate change in Maxs driving and racecraft, why would you expect any difference. What is clear is that Max and RBR are prepared to roll with the punches. It’s really down to the FIA to manage their sport. Then it’s down to the teams and drivers to decide how they work with these. Wanna stay clean in limits, unassailable to rulings? Go for it. Wanna push the limits and patience of stewards every race, because of risk/reward? Try it. I think what everyone is agreeing on is that the latter needs and gets harsher consequences, and is also bringing sport into disrepute for many fans and sponsors. Every sport needs heroes and villains.
Even people who have no idea what F1 stands for or it's rules can clearly see that Max's overly aggressive and reckless driving behavior is out of line. I've shown those many moves, in Austin and Mexico to two of my American friends, who don't follow F1 and they both agreed something needs to be done to keep drivers from pushing other drivers out of the track like Max does every single time he races. Did you see that clean battle between Hamilton and Russell? It was a lot more entertaining to watch. The rules should state clean racing is mandatory. Any overly aggressive move such as pushing another car, or completely missing a corner and or keeping position off track must be penalized. This whole ahead of the apex situation is insane and needs changing.
The rules need tightening up…again… specifically for Max. His attitude has always been « you try and overtake, we crash, you try to stop me overtaking, we crash ».
That's it. You got it in a nutshell. And stewards should be aware of his attitude problem by now so as to be extra harsh until he finally grows up. He will never be a great champion until he can do it like the great champions, like Alonso and Hamilton.
Same attitude Schumacher and Senna had. And now both of them are the idols of about 90% of the current grid. Lets not pretend he is the first that goes over the limit.
Why is this even a topic. F1 pundits have shown to have zero integrity with truck loads of hypocrisy. There was no problem with Max's driving style throughout the "whole" season in 2021, but all of a sudden Max's driving style is a problem and a topic of discussion. Why is that?
What abiut Ricciardo coming back to redbull for these last feew races or next year. Perhaps thats why there wasnt any fanfare with him leaving? Wishful thinking but maybe he could at least do some post racing trials in comparison to Yuki?
I have no respect for horner after his comments about lewis a year or so ago....he makes me laugh saying we need clarity on racing and racing lines....its like he wants one rule for max and one for the rest of the drivers...i mean horner sain in the past thats not an overtaking corner and the next breath if their is a chance or a gap max will go for it ffs....CLARITY.....its racing and overtake where you can i my opinion but also keep to the track and safe...
I've been moving to the position that more drivers need to stop rolling over for Max and drive exactly how he does. "YOU lift or we crash" has brought him to where he is and there are millions who love his passion and aggression - just like millions still pretend Senna and Schumacher weren't prepared to do the same or even worse.
@@adamozmin8970 why don’t you go watch that again. Or as many times as it takes to see what happened. Max crashed again. Lewis doesn’t crash unless max is there. Wherever max is, there’s a crash.
Basically whenever Max has a main championship rival and doesn’t have the car to beat than on pure pace he drives like this. Latter part of the 2021 season and now this season as well.
Last race was the perfect example, when Carlos overtook him he defended fairly, but as soon as Lando had a go he was looking to cause and accident to take him out of the race.
I'm convinced that the two stewards Johnny Herbert, former Sky F1 pundit, and Tim Mayer, the son of the late McLaren co-founder Teddy Mayer, was 100 % impartial 😎
Damon did not do karting, a major disadvantage, in terms of racecraft. Re: Damon's Senna comments, he had to drive that way against Prost, since the head of the head of the governing body Jean Marie-Balestre was blatantly on Prost's side. Max is maximising the rules and also targeting his rival Lando, it is working. The rules are wrong. Professional full time stewards are definitely needed. Are all 3 presenter's not aware that Max copies Schumacher's method of making the car very loose, too loose for their team mate ? Albon clearly explained this already. Herbert would know all about it !
It honestly feels like some kind of embargo has been lifted here. When this was happening in 2021 there was a slight inkling of disapproval from the commentators, notably in Saudi Arabia and Brazil but then a lid was quickly put on it. The ex drivers who kept on banging the drum quickly disappeared from the telly. Fast forward to 2024, Verstappen is at it again and suddenly it's OK to call it out and administer appropriate penalties. Are we watching a sport here or some kind of reality show?
yep, Verstappen cares about nobody but himself, selfish spoiled and like Damon says, Red Bull are not managing or helping him develop as a sportsman by always making excuses for him - literally whatever he does.
Tom Clarkson said something in the F1 podcast at 21 mins about how Max raced and should race and I agree. We call people like Senna and Michael the greats but do you realize how they raced. Look how Michael raced Damon. Look at Senna and how he raced against Prost. You race to the limits of the car and rules. You want to win, well that's how you win and the greats will go to the very edge and over.
Why are people excusing shite driving just because it is by their favoured driver? Take your blinkers off, what Max does and keeps doing is not racing FFS!
Max seems to want to win at all costs but has also said winning a championship won't change his life. What are the odds of Lando and Max NOT coming together on track before season end ?!?!
@@alexpeak16or charging people off track because you can’t handle coming second so you have to break the rules to save your fragile ego from taking a knock.
Forget this. Leclerc swore in the official FIA press conference. He now needs to be penalised for it just like Verstappen. You cant have one rule for one and not the other!
Does anyone realize that Max got his second 10-second penalty on lap 20 and did not enter the pits until lap 27? By that time, Sainz had built up a 15-second lead. If Max had gone into the pits within 2 laps of receiving his penalty like other drivers normally do, Lando more than likely would have won because Sainz would have only been about 6 or 7 seconds ahead. Max should have received a BLACK FLAG for not entering the pits in an appropriate time after receiving his penalty. That cost Lando the victory.
Lewis by rights is a 8 time world champion. But tell me one season that max has won a championship without redbull been found cheating or without controversy. Max will always be membered by real F1 fan's as a paper champion.
Why didn't Sky F1 call out Verstappen's driving in 2021? Are you going to do a feature that explains why it was "hard racing" then but too much now? Max has always driven the same way. Why has Sky F1 changed its view of it?
If I were Max, I would call it quits after this season, because Formula 1 has gone woke and will thus go broke (if it isn't already?). It has become a sport for Sir Lewis Whine-a-lots, Lando No Winners and King George Snowflakeries. Shaking my head.
I think the regulations of F1 need to be changed to a simple solution, Force a driver off the track and its proven you could have raced fairly and not pushed them off. 10 sec stop go. Its the only answer to it. These lunges without giving the position back immediately, not 2 laps later. should be implemented. This way max knows if he drives this way his race is over. Also it will deter other drivers from doing it. Also Lose DRS, make the cars as small as the 2010 spec cars. Then we got room to race.
@@stu4635 Did you know Lewis apologised for that. Max has never admitted or Apologised when he's Wrong. Takes a Big Man to Apologise for any Wrong Doings!
None of the other hard racers have ever been over line as much as Max is by default, much more subtle about pushing the boundaries. And when they get it wrong they actually own up rather than throw blame at everyone else...
Get rid of hill he has never liked max and sky media also max best driver in f1 and has been for many years. Sky and hill and bundle should be ashamed of them selves
Yes the penalties were fair. When Max drives like this, he is dangerous, I would go even further if I were the FIA. I would put Max on a warning that would be if he causes another driver to drop out the race Max would be deducted 50 pounds from this seasons total. As Max knows that if both he and Lando don't finish a race Max benefits, theoretically Max could force them both off the track for the rest of the season and still be world champion, so there needs to be punitive measures in place to discourage this, Lando has to live with that fear every time he tries to overtake Max.
This issue isn't complex at all. The issues arise from the attempt to satisfy everyone and ensure their happiness with any changes. The solution is straightforward: alter the rules to prevent such occurrences and let the drivers handle the rest on the track. If another car is beside you going into a corner, you must leave a car's width to allow them to remain on track. If either driver veers off the track, they should be penalized. It's as simple as that. It's puzzling why common sense doesn't prevail. Leaving it to the drivers only results in chaos, as we've seen with cars obstructing each other during qualifying earlier in the season, despite agreements between them. For a sport as advanced as Formula 1, it's absurd that we're constantly discussing basic rules.
Good thing you mention Senna, because Everyone says how great he was and how much they love him. But he was as aggressive as Max. Max is just Senna and Schumacher combined in one person.
@randalladams, The rules and regulations dont need changing. Its the people applying the rules and regulations and handed out the penalties that get it wrong almost all of the time. Thats where the problem is. The head steward is ultimately in charge. Warwick was in overall charge in Austin, he didn't direct the stewards correctly, they didn'y apply the rules and regulations correctly. Herbert was in overall charge in Mexico, he directed the stewrds correctly.
Red Bull needs to approach Williams about hiring Carlos Sainz. It would be an elegant solution to the second seat at Red Bull and Williams can keep Franco Colapinto. Also, Carlos Slim has said he will not be sponsoring Red Bull due to AT&T signing on as a major sponsor; he doesn't see any advantage competing sponsorships. He has indicated an interest in sponsoring Franco. Win-win across the board.
These hypocrites hyperfocus on Max to the exclusion of everybody else. When Max is gone what will they do? Stop watching F1 is most likely, since there is no more dopamine from the drama.
Horner is doing exactly the same thing McLaren did after Austin. Making all kinds of spreadsheets 😄. Mclaren has been working on the case against Max all week. And it worked. Because otherwise Max would never have received a 10sec penalty for the turn 4 incident.
Or Princess Pinkham. Out of the two, at least Patrick was a racer and does know most/some orf what shes talking about, Princess Pinkham simply doesnt and what she does state is someone elses thoughts.
I think Damon described the stewarts' dilemma quite accurately. And even as a Max fan, I think that the second incident with Lando was just stupid. Why RB didn't insist that Max gave the place back thus avoiding at least one penalty, was beyond me. Everyone could see that a penalty was imminent.
To clarify if it should have been a 5 or 10 second penalty since Lando got 5 seconds in Austin, in the verdict of Austin, the stewards specify that usually it is a 10 second penalty according to the guidelines but they took into consideration that Max went off the track as well, hence the reduction of 5 seconds
If this were Verstappen vs Sainz, you'd get an analysis after the race and an article or two on the Monday. But because it's against a Brit, there's multiple videos and articles already and it'll likely continue till this weekends Brazil GP 🙄
Carlos said that his biggest deception is that he helped Ferrari come back on top and perhaps in contention for a drivers' championship in 2025, and he will not be part of it. And we can all understand that.
When Damian struggles to support the judges, then you have an issue. The stewards are not consistent from race to race. They have become an issue, not a solution if you change the advisers every week, you get different responses.
Agreed, one was fair enough, the other should have been an instant black flag and at least 6 points if not a ban which would have taken him to at least 10 points. Cars are safer now but no crash is guaranteed to be non fatal and his move amounted to an attempted deliberate crash
@@HectorBrocklebankHBFash I've read plenty of people defend Max: even Martin Brundle and Peter Windsor did their best to gloss that driving over. Jos Verstappen meanwhile has criticised the stewards instead for unfairness. This halfway house isn't working - all the drivers should drive like Max. We may end up with 3-4 cars finishing the Grand Prix but if that is what "fans" and experts are clamouring for, the drivers should give it to them and rules be damned.
A race ban is completely ridiculous. Max deserved a drive through at most. Idk how you can say Max deserves a race ban when Lewis only got a 10s penalty for Silverstone 2021 which actually sent a driver to the hospital
Damon spoke about Ayrton senna in Suzuka against Prost. The pole position was moved off the racing line to accommodate Prost, which ayrton knew to be unfair and did the right thing.
Max is fast, but he can not race. He has no composure and lacks the mental strength to handle a duel. As soon as car are around him he can not keep it clean as he panics about falling back. Real sim racing mentality
@@micahkiyimba8641 I mean that literally proves my point. 1st Title, very close, absolutely filth, nearly decapitates Hamilton, break tests Hamilton 2nd.3rd Titles, fastes car by far, no incidents 4th, Fastest car until unspecified changes, now cant win. Filthy driving returns.
@@DonalMartinplusLando was only given a 5 second penalty because max forced Lando of the track. Otherwise they was going to give Lando a ten seconds penalty. Maybe if max didn't go around forcing people off track then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
People might be having a bit of recency bias, but the rule does need changing. Rules are fine until someone works out a consistant way of bending them which is what Max and RB have done.
In Austin, Lando should have let Max back though (clearly not allowed to overtake off the track), Max should have got a track limit strike for leaving the track (and Lando shouldn't as he was run off). In Mexico, Lando brilliantly played Max at his own game and beat him to the apex. Max gets there second, pushes him off and gets his penalty. Then Max gets the red mist and purposely drives them both off track... a clear 2nd penalty (possibly a drive through!). The current rules can work. If Max gets track limits strikes when he's first to the apex and runs off the track, he can only do it twice before receiving a penalty.
I don't know why people race like that or why they make the rule that makes things complicated, it's not racing in my book. If cars are side by side going into the braking zone then they should expect to still be side by side on exit and not try to force cars off track or to avoid a accident. Those who want to race shouldn't have a problem with that. ✌🏼
Most likely because they have more knowledge of the inner workings and politics of the series but are also contractual obligations to not say things in less uncertain terminology
