Enphase was my choice; with the final, significant decision based on my being experienced with 220 VAC and a bit shy of 500 to 600 VDC. A few other thoughts to consider. Expandability - I've expanded my microinverter system four times. Oh, I started with a plan for the full system. I just didn't have the funds to do it all at once. To do so was simply to run an additional 20 amp circuit to the added panels, test and then tell the system to scan for new modules. Independence - I have had one microinverter fail following a lightning storm. The monitoring system showed which one had failed. The rest of the system continued full production. It took only about 20 minutes up on the roof to replace the failed microinverter.
I didn't realize how good my solar system was until now. I usually research to the nth degree but I really dropped the ball on my solar panels. I'm glad though that I have Enphase micro-inverters. My panels which are made by Hyundai aren't the best and wished I had gone with Sunpower. Live and learn. Thanks so much for this info.
I'm about 2 years late watching this video. However, the information is still very relevant especially since Enphase now has new products that will continue to produce power even in a grid-down situation. Another consideration you didn't mention about the traditional single inverter, string type systems is the VERY high DC voltages involved which can be in excess of 500V. Of course if the system is installed properly per code and grounded its relatively safe but this was big consideration when I chose Enphase microinverters for the system I self installed. I would rather have an electrical system that consists of 100%, 120/240 AC rather than a mixed system, it just makes more sense.
I initially was planning to use microinverters for my system in Italy, but there were some issues that made me change idea: 1-Don't know why, maybe just Italian law thing, but cannot go over 3kw with microinverters here. Something about not been able to meet more stringent requirements of systems above 3kw. 2-If need to add a battery must convert back to dc. 3-Here every inverter power is summed and if you go over 11kw there are many new requirements and expenses. This includes the battery included in the inverter such as a Tesla Powerwall, which is 5kw. So if you use a AC battery like that the maximum is 5kw. If you go without microinverter, you can use a dc battery an hybrid inverter and be able to use all 11kw of solar. Right now we have some incentives for solar which the state pay back 100% of the expenses so everybody is trying to put the maximum possible. 4-Like it was said by many other below, even if the inverter fail under warranty the technician must be paid and even if it's a 10 minute job, which I doubt, it will probably cost 4-5 times the microinverter itself and all at your expense, while the inverter repair and swap is totally under warranty.
incorrect information. In a string system with a central inverter,if 1 panel is shaded,the rest of the panels in that string will still put out there maximum power in relation to the volume of sunlight they receive. The rest of the panels in that string will NOT be reduced to the power output of the 1 shaded panel.
Thanks for the video - You taught me something. The only thing missing (that you should really have included) was the price differences between the various systems. From what I see, Microinverters are quite expensive which is off-putting.
The enphase micro inverters are wired in parallel and are smart devices. They synch voltage, frequency, and phase together and also with the grid. According to my installer the newer 7 and 8 models are very reliable.
Few questions Julian. 1. Do these micro inverters/central inverters perform well under heavy inductive loads? 2. Do these micros/optimizers tolerate extreme temperatures in active mode like in rooftop configurations? 3. Cost comparison from equipment purchase to operation/maintenance? 4. how much is the overall efficiency? Thanks for all the videos...
1. I have experienced less than 5 Enphase micros failing ever. I have seen not many power optimizers fail but more than 5. The problem is more the inverter. Not the power optimizers. 2. The micro-inverters are built for the heat. The power optimizers are as well. 3. Costs are extremely sonar nowadays for anything under 30 panels. Then the cost difference becomes greater. 4. The micro-inverter is slightly less efficient when compared to the power optimizer but after multiplying the efficiency of the power optimizers by the central inverter you’re less than the micro inverter. Getting a bit more power isn’t a good enough reason to go with either. Long term reliability will affect actual total performance more and the decentralized nature of the micros with the proven reliability is the reason.
Here's my cost breakdown: EUR 90 / panel, inverter: EUR 30 / panel, optimizer: EUR 45 / panel, enphase: EUR 90 / panel. So while the micro-inverter might beat the optimizer setup, it is a whopping EUR 120 vs EUR 180 or 50% more expensive compared to a cheap string inverter setup. I can change the inverter twice for the price of enphase, excluding the installation costs, but also excluding warranties that could cover the inverter change. I'm not sure it's such a clear cut decision when I'm the one paying for this.
Yeah, It's a tricky one. Microinvertors are guaranteed for 25 years, and during this time would expect to use 2-3 invertors. It's knowing how much extra energy can the panels make by being optimised over that period. Even brand new panels in optimum condition will have slight power differences out of the factory, so if you have 10 x 250W panels, 1 might be 240W, and 1 260W, so would all run at 240W, and that's before shading and dirty panels etc. Also easier to add onto system later. Bit of a head scratcher though!
You seem to have forgotten to add in the cost of the power optimiser to your equation. It should be €90 + 30 + 45 = €165 versus €180 for the Enphase microinverter. That's a fairer comparison to my way of thinking.
@@coopdivi Power optimisers might not be required. If the array string has the same azimuth, and there aren't any serious shading issues, then optimisers are an unnecessary expense.
I let a installer made the calculations for me with the same panels. With 15 400Wp panels the SolarEdge solution was only €400 cheaper than the Enphase solution. €7400 vs €7800. It was a easy decision, I went Enphase.
Another advantage that Enphase and Solar Edge has is that they contain the Quick Disconnect function. If your location requires Quick Disconnect then it not an insignificant cost to add it to each solar module and then a control box on the wall. Also they have monitoring for each individual solar module.
Julian, I just finished reading through these comments and had a good laugh. People coming out and saying you are full of crap make me think of getting some truck owners in a bar. The first one tells you why he likes his Chevrolet. You can bet the Ford folks will have a problem with that. And don't even let the happy owner of a Dodge hear any of this!
Thank you. I am so much more informed due to your videos. I just refused a “top of the line” Generac system because of its single point of failure. What do you think of the new Panasonic EverVolt series?
If you do end up having to replace a panel (or more), the technology changes so fast, that it could be difficult to find a replacement with the exact same Voltage/Amps (unless you find a used one). This plays a big part with a central inverter due to Ohm's law and physics. The micro inverters (MI) do the DC to AC conversion on a per-panel basis, so as long as the replacement panel falls within the input margin, then it is much easier to replace and forget about it. Depending on how the panels are wired (series, parallel, or series-parallel), the centralized inverter will use the lowest voltage of the array it "sees" so that is why if a shadow falls on a panel in some type of series connection (2, 3, 4 or more in a series, aka "string") then its voltage drops -- which means ALL of the panels in that string will be converted in the inverter at that lower voltage. With Micro Inverters, they "do the math" per panel. (actually, per string it sees, but usually it's a string of just 1 panel, but I have seen 2 on one MI). That's another benefit of MI!
Some years back, micro inverters used to emit a lot of EMI (radio interference). I don't know if that's been solved, but if it's a concern for the home owner, it's something to look into before committing.
Julian when I design systems with enphase and solar edge. Solar edge tends to produce slightly more when the panels are configured in 1 array. If the panels are in multiple arrays would enphase then produce more?
It’s going to depend on which micro inverters are being paired to the panel and a clipping is occurring. If the micro inverters are undersized then it would make sense that it properly sized string system would produce slightly more. In theory the productions should be right about the same and I tell people to not get caught up on a 1% difference or something small when the real difference is reliability and a single point of failure in the string system that you would want to avoid if possible
Good and simple overview. I am at the final phase of my decision. I can get either a SE or Enphase based system here in southern NV. I have read and heard many installers in the NV market not lean towards the Enphase microinverter, not because of failure, but rather they underperform in very hot temperatures. Not clipping, but begin to stop inverting at high temperatures and start again when temperature of microinverter returns to "good range". I have been shown monitoring screenshots of same panel mfg, and AC and power output on same roof showing this behavior, thus less power production comparing SE to Enphase. No where have I seen a documented write up on this behavior. Any comments?
Mark I haven’t seen it in San Diego but could be possible since Las Vegas is significantly hotter. Power optimizers are also under the panel and will have to withstand the heat. Something to keep in mind.. I would ask the local installers if they’ve had power optimizer failures at all.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting Optimizers can handle the heat much better than a micro inverter... simply because you are dc/dc with an optimizer and they don't generate more heat... when you convert from dc to ac, it generates much more heat and heat is lost energy... that's why micro's have more problems in extreme heat. I put a complete micro system on a metal roof and had to replace the whole system 2 years in because it got really hot in July/August and the system production went way down from what it should have been.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting They were the m-250s... we were going to replace with IQ7s but our Enphase rep suggested against it. The metal roof put off so much heat, it was probably 150 degrees. I have nothing against Enphase or SolarEdge... we use them both and both definitely have their place. Enphase is great for our 8 to 10 panel new construction projects... I like SE for multiple array 30+ panel projects.
@@brentbaker8796 I was going to say the IQ series are miles ahead of the m series in terms of reliability. With that being said, this could be a good use case for the inverter being in the garage and not next to the hot, metal roof. Have you had iq series micros burn up on normal concrete tile or shingle roofs in the same city?
Julian can you please share some data points to prove what you have explained. Like 3 setups under similar conditions and show us the power output under different conditions My analysis says the hype around Microinverter is just a marketing gimmick. Real time efficiency difference is 3 to 4% which is nominal to the overall cost hike.
You shouldn’t go with micro-in dryers because you think it’ll generate you a little more power. It will be very close. You want to go with micros for the reliability and decentralization
Thanks Julian. Your videos are very helpful. We got a proposal for an 11K solar system w/ a battery backup today. This company sells Tesla Wall 2 and LG batteries. The Rep said the LG battery works only with optimized inverters and does not work with Enphase microinverters, but the Tesla works with both Enpahse micro-inverters and optimized inverters. The cost difference is at least $5000 more for the Tesla Battery. Is the increased cost worth it? Are there other batteries that might work at a lower cost that are worth considering>
I installed my own system 4 yrs ago and I REALLY wanted to go micro inverter, but read and saw too many pictures of them failing in hot climates. There are many pics of the pots literally having failed (leaking) where it regularly gets over 100 degrees. While this is likely not an issue in SD, in hotter climates it was not worth the risk to me based on many forum opinions at the time. I think it's worth noting that they do fail in very hot weather despite manufacturer claims that they do not. I very much hope it's better now than when I installed my SolarEdge system 4 years ago, because their customer service for me as a self installer has been pretty crappy, I am frequently told to contact my installer because they dismiss me since dealers normally install their system. I have literally never reliably gotten notifications that the system is down, and it almost never comes back up on it's own from a power outage. Good luck all.
Marcus Cameron The M series was less reliable. The IQ series are incredibly reliable. We install in Phoenix as well as San Diego and do not have burn outs with Enphase IQs. I have seen 3 IQs fail in the last few years out of thousands we’ve installed. I’ve personally seen many many more central inverters fail. We get phone calls all the time from people who are wanting us to help them replace their central inverters. I would install micros on my own house without question.
Great video Jullian. My question is, wouldn't the enphase combiner box be considered a single point of potential failure when using the enphase microiverters? Have you heard of anyone needing to replace an enphase combiner box?
With the advent of IQ8, it appears that the IQ system controller now becomes a single point of failure if you desire any backup features. Does this change your reliability equation of the system? For Grid-tie only I see the reliability, but once moving to backup solution I don't see much advantage. I even assume that to utilize the 3T or 10T, another inverter must be added to the system. Just looking for thoughts. TIA
I made this with just solar only in mind of course. Technically there is a single point of failure on the Enphase system already. It’s the combiner box. But, I have never seen one fail so I don’t even bring it up to clients. It’s not a component that’s dealing with a lot of stress like an inverter is. You would be right that if your transfer switch wasn’t working then your off grid mode wouldn’t work. The Enphase system is still going to be your most reliable option by far
I went with solaredge for the battery and car charging. Enphase is best for a purely grid linked system I guess? But if you want a battery then Enphase has to convert the AC it’s created back to DC with the associated losses?
Great video! Question... is it highly detrimental to the solar output if the micro inverter clips the watt? example... NeOn2 350w and a micro inverter IQ7+ 290w
Kaye Peeh in a very hot climate it won’t be clipping much. In a cooler summer with a strong sun it will be more. My default micro to anything over 350w with the IQ7a if I can. The production drop could be anywhere from just 1% to 6-7% in an extreme case.
Quick question - if the combiner box/gateway for the Enphase system fails… would that mean the entire system be down? Since it’s a central point of failure?
Technically yes. But, the likelihood a combiner fails is close to zero. I’ve had one fail in 7 years. It’s essentially just a bus bar like in your electrical panel
Very interesting video. Thank you. I'm also interested to include a Powerwall solution to the PV system. How would you connect the micro inverters to a Powerwall? and how would you set it up if you don't want to feed any of your pv electricity into the grid but only use as much as you need from PV or battery? is the micro inverter solution then still the favorite solution or would it come down to option 2 (with optimizers) as you might need a central point to control of this electrity flow?
Your electrician will install a critical load panel where only some of your breakers are backed up so you’d need several batteries to be completely off grid. This isn’t really necessary because of net metering credits.
Julian. I think some of what you say is true about the two systems. You are not correct on the Optimizer-Inverter install. If one panel goes down with Optimizers, the others operate fine, just like the Micro-Inverters. Micro-Inverters also allow an easier expansion of the system.
If you were considering having solar installed, please think carefully before signing with Soleria Solar Or or Enphase. My system has been installed since September 9 months later and it still does not work. They've been out here and worked on it several times and it still doesn't work. Now I get some of the highest electric bills I've ever had and and a loan that I'm making payments... They don't ask for phone calls or return messages left.. I don't know if they're messing with me or just Incompetent......
@4:30 you are not limited to the weakest performing panel in a string system with shade. This is such a persistent and aggravating misconception. When 1 panel is shaded, it will be shorted out by the bypass diodes and the others will perform at 100%. Of course this is only the case if the difference is significant and if shorting out the panel will provide more performance than having the whole system run at that panel's performance. In other words, if you have 10 panels, and one performs at 95%, yes they all perform at 95%. If however one performs at 80%, it will simply be shorted out and the other 9 panels perform at 100%. Hence shading one panel can never hurt your total system more than that 1 panel's production.
You are right but I chose not to get into this topic too deeply since the video was already getting long. A lot of shading is from trees where maybe half the array will be shaded and the other half won’t. In that case half your system has been shut off. This is why SolarEdge developed the optimizer. Although with the pricing for an average residential system isn’t all that much more for Enphase, why not just go for that and now you don’t have to have any panels turning themselves off Id they are still producing 75% of normal power.
I do have questions since you seem pretty honest guy. Do I need to choose the system that have micro Inverter over size (max watts) over that panel can handle so it will not clipping? Which one do you think I should go with and what is the benefit if the cost is not the factor. Thank you.
It depends on the environment, azimuth, shading, etc. Sometimes a higher output micro makes sense but other times a lower rated micro can give equal performance since the panel isn’t making it over the max conversion wattage.
You can’t even be off grid unless your building a system on a property without existing service. The solar will always be grid tied even if you have battery backup and the ability to run in “off grid mode”
As always great video and tons of information. I am being told by at least 2 installers that micro inverters get heated by all the heat under the panels and given that they have so many electronic components they go bust or cause poor performance in the long-term. Can you help clarify if you agree and if not your insights? Thanks.
I’ve seen less than 10 micros fail over 7 years. Centralized inverters, unless on a northern wall, will be hit by the sun more often and that’s actually a much more common occurance
micro-invertors are good if you have access to the panel that is faulty (on the roof) and remove that panel to replace it's faulty invertor then put it back. How much does it cost if the roof IS NOT easy accessible!??
We have an 12 year old central inverter (SMA Sunny Boy 6000US) on our 10 panel system here in Phoenix. I want to budget money to prepare for the failure of the inverter. Unfortunately, installers I have contacted are interested in giving a estimate with the prospect of some future sale. Off the top of your head what should I use as the hardware cost of upgrading to an Enphase IQ microinvererters over the cost of simply replacing with a new central inverter? Thanks
SolarEdge is a technology LOCK-IN! Enphase is a technology LOCK-IN! I am a SMA Tripower owner! I recommend you to find the maximal power of your array and then find the best fit central inverter, most likely 6kW, or maybe less due modul degeneration. If you trust SMA for 12 years - you might get another SMA for the next 12 years. Independent you can choose any inverter producer because SMA works an standards and does NOT lock you in!
Your forgetting the labor cost of replacing a 1 faulty Enphase inverter. Enphase wont pay an Solar installer for replacing a faulty inverter on a double story roof and given you need to take off 5 or more panels. A lot easier when fronius or SMA or Delta pay an installer $200usd to replace a string inverter on a wall and its an easy job done in less than 20min.
In my real world experience and working directly with the actual installers, they all say that most of the time it’s going to be easy to replace either way. An Enphase micro-inverter can take as little as 5 minutes to replace. I don’t see the difficulty getting on a second story roof. Any contractor has a ladder lol. Also, regardless if the ease of replacing either, central inverters fail a lot more often. No matter what you say, I have seen about 40 solar edge inverters fail in total and 2 micro inverters. Those were IQ6 models from 2018. Literally I have never had a Iq7 fail
@@alexsoares9892 so you don’t have to Walk on other panels to get to a an inverter in the middle of an array. So unlikely to even happen in the real world
Micro inverters are good if you have possible partial shade during the day or sometime in the season,Micro Inverters are really simple to replace but not fun getting up on a roof on a hot day to replace the M190 Enphase inverters along with many other Enphase Micro inverters do have high failure rates I hope they have a better Micro inverter by now because my warranty will be up in a few more years i'm sure the other 6 inverters will fail before then.
Lee micro-inverters still Offer a decentralized architecture a central inverter simply cannot. If you had gone with SolarEdge in 2011, the inverter could have failed several times and your entire system would have been down each time. What I tell my clients is that the value of micro-inverters is the decentralized architecture and the ease of replacement. It takes about 5 minutes to replace a micro inverter. Gotta wear gloves on the roof so you don’t burn your hands!
Julian I live in northern Illinois and we do get our share of a snow. If one panel has ice or snow on it and your system does not have micro inverters or optimizers, then your whole system could be down until that ice or snow is removed from one or more panels?
David - I live in southwest Michigan and pretty much expect no production in December, January and February. With either the weak sun at latitude 42.5 or a couple of inches on snow on the panels for up to a week at a time, I am glad to be 'on the grid'. So I overbuilt my system to produce much more than I need in the sunshine months.
Hi. Thanks for the video. Can I ask where you got the figures on % extra A/C output for the power optimizer and microinverter systems? I can't seem to find anything online.
It’s not going to be a big enough of a difference to prefer one product over the other. The reason you want micro-inverters is because of their reliability, resilience, and if one fails, only that panel is out.
Ya except in 200 installs I’ve only had to replace 3 inverters. 10-15 is BS your way off with that. You sell micro inverters so your pitching that, your forgetting the week point of micro inverters not being rated to work above 149 F How hot do the roofs get in your market? Thanks
@@Superiorsolarconsulting Thanks for the advice. If I have 8.8kw panels and a 10.1kw battery, will these go together or will the battery not charge up fully?
@@SureshBopitiya an 8.8kW system can charge up the battery fully. It’s just a matter of how much excess power is being created in the day time vs what the house is using. Is the 10kWh battery you are referring to is the LG CHEM? If so, it’s not compatible with micros
@@Superiorsolarconsulting I am not sure if the brand, but thanks again for the advice. Do you have any thoughts on these panels - Longi LR4-60HPH 370W Mono Perc 120half-cell Black coupled with Enphase Micro Inverter ENP-IQ7PLUS-72-2-INT. The Rep is visiting me on Saturday to discuss installation and battery options. It's an 8.8Kw system.
@@SureshBopitiya Those panels are tier 1 but they are definitely on the lower end of the tier 1 spectrum. Not a terrible choice but there are better panels out there
Everybody is improving in terms of reliability but the SolarEdge central inverter with power optimizers architecture is creating that single point of failure if the inverter goes. I recommend micros for residential sized projects
this was super useful!! thank you so much. i have a question: if i thinking of a adding a tesla powerwall/battery back up later on, does it matter which of these inverters i get?
ahoy ahoy Micro-inverters are compatible with most batteries. The powerwall 2 is compatible with Enphase. What state are you in? A lot of people think a battery will help them save more and it doesn’t. Depends on where you are...
This is something I've been researching too. I'm on PGE in California and we've had power outages, which is why I've considered batteries. Still doesn't seem worth the high cost.
Ian Noble I recommend comparing the pros and cons plus pricing of the battery vs generator. The battery is a luxury. The solar saves you money. At least in California...
ome on Julian, why do you always create a vision of leasing being a bad decision. Leasing can be a better option than purchasing. YOU are marketing to your clients ... understood it's your market... but please realize ... YOU ARE A RICH MAN and I AM NOT.... I CAN NOT AFFORD your option... WHY do you always create videos to the rich??? Please explain the PRO's and CON's to the average Homeowners of the United States of America.... If I lease ..... do I not still save money??? verses buying from my current electric provider??? tell me ?? I still save.... correct??? should I go solar to save money or should I continue to pay my electric company for the next 25 years??? I decided to go solar because I cannot afford to purchase or Finance....... I save $100.00 a month for the next 25 years taking in to consideration the inflation rate of ComEd in Illinios saving me $25,000 ..... Should I give it to my electric company or should I save it..... Please let me know if I should go GREEN and put solar on my home >>>OR just stay what I am paying NOW...
Yes you should still go solar and Illinois has a surprisingly quick payback period after you factor in SRECs. Give me a call and I’ll walk you through the options. 760-473-5878
How do micro inverters effect efficiency with charging battery systems? My understanding is there's an energy loss whenever you convert from A/C to D/C and batteries are charged through D/C power. With that would I get twice the loss off a micro inverters system or are there better ways of wiring in battery systems to make things more efficient?
While your technically correct about there being a bit more power lost during inversion, but it’s such a small amount that i’d take that with the overall reliability of the micro-system. You’re not going to care about another 1% lost with the micros if your central inverter is down
C'mon man, you are telling me that 20 micro inverters exposed to the heat on the 2 story home (in my case) roof is more reliable than one high quality brand name inverter inside my garage. What I got from you and many other is DO NOT BUY CHEAP inverter! I'll bet its a lot easier to find an electrician to replace inverter inside my garage than to find someone to climb on the roof remove the panel, install new micro inverter and reinstall the panel.
Do a bit of research on how Enphase manufacturer’s their micros for the climate. I’ve seen less than 5 IQ series micros fail ever in 5 years. I’ve seen many SolarEdge inverters fail. Also, the optimizers are up under the panels too so that would require going on the roof to replace. A central inverter takes more time and is more expensive to replace than a micro-inverter as well. It’s not a challenge to go up on your roof for a contractor. A micro replacement could be a short as 10 minutes.
They are are made to be on the roof. Solar edge inverters on the wall exposed to heat never last as long.(like their warranty) $3000 inverter on your wall vs a $300 micro inverter.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting " It’s not a challenge to go up on your roof for a contractor. A micro replacement could be a short as 10 minutes." you talking like you know... how accessible are ALL of the roofs.. Please do not embarrass yourself with this kind of answers...
Enphase has a single point of failure. Its called the Combiner Box and it only has a 5 year warranty. So its not factual to say everything is warrantied for 25 years and that there is no single point of failure. There is a reason the Combiner box has only a 5 year warranty. Also Enphase is around 1.8% less efficient than SolarEdge so you get more production from the same panel. Where are you finding data that Enphase produces 5% more power than SolarEdge??
My Enphase system is installed in accordance with Enphase specifications and does not have a combiner box. I could have run one 20 amp circuit for up to fourteen modules. I chose to limit this to ten. Flawless performance for going on five years except for one wimpy microinverter which couldn't handle a nearby lightning strike. The rest of the system functioned as normal.
Something doesn't add up here. All the quotes I've got so far show higher total output from a Solaredge system than an Enphase system due to the significantly higher efficiency of the single dedicated inverter vs the micro-inverters. They also tout the higher reliability of power optimizers vs the micro-inverters. Cost of the 2 systems is identical. And then of course there's the battery backup situation, if you ever want batteries, you DEFINITELY want them DC coupled rather than AC coupled as you're adding 2 more AC/DC conversions which is a huge efficiency drain.
Yeah I’d run away from the salespeople touting the optimizer’s reliability. They only want to sell the system that will result in a higher commission. Believe whoever you choose to…
@@Green__one hey dude you’re free to buy whatever inverting system you want. You don’t have to listen to me. You will sometimes see a slightly higher output with SolarEdge depending on which micros are being paired to the system. But, if somebody claims a central inverter or optimizer is as reliable as an Enphase IQ series micro it makes me laugh because it indicates somebody doesn’t actually have much experience with the technology over the last 5 years. I’ve seen hundreds of systems be installed and spoken to people about their system for probably literally thousands of hours. It has been what has consumed my life for last 5 years so you can either believe me and follow my advice, or believe the salesperson from the company you seem to trust because they’ve been around a long time. If you were super sure of your decision you would have pulled the trigger already instead of researching more. Thanks for the comment on my video. Helps the algorithm show it to more people.
I also didn’t mention that you have to multiply the efficiency rating of both the inverter and optimizer together to find the actual efficiency and when doing so you’re the same as the micro’s efficiency. If the central inverter goes down then you have no power at all which I see a lot
@@Superiorsolarconsulting The optimizers don't tend to go down, and the micro-inverters multiply the number of times an inverter failure can occur. I'm also not talking about efficiency of individual components, I'm talking about efficiency of the entire system. The entire system is more efficient with optimizers and a central inverter, than with micro-inverters. Every quote from every company shows higher total system output with optimizers and a central inverter than with micro-inverters. Anyway, You're obviously so sold on Enphase that facts won't change anything, so I won't try any further. But to anyone else watching. Do your own research, and don't rely on this highly misleading video.
I have heard this discussion about who's super hero is stronger, better, faster. I do like your explanation between the three. However, unless you are living off the grid, does it really matter if your system goes down? I mean really? I can definitely see a benefit for enphase if you're living off the grid and you rely on the system not going down due so the decentralized system makes sense. However, the more complex of electronics the more the failure...somewhere in the system. I would be curious the cost to get someone to come out to repair a centralized inverter vs one of those microinverters on your roof (like lets say a 3x3 array the failing is nested in the middle). What i would like to understand is why do these microinverters need to be near the panel? Why can't they be in a garage w/ less heat and easier to replace. Decentralized system in Centralized location.
No. Elon's focus is on TESLA motors and SpaceX. The Tesla solar situation is a mess. Currently they are trying to get their "rental program" going where it's similar to a lease/PPA but there is no set rate for the future. At least with a PPA you know what your future cost will be. With the Tesla rental program you must accept the charge increase or else you will be cancelling the subscription and they'll turn your system off. If you google Tesla or solarcity customer service you can quickly see how much of a mess internal management is. As far as equipment, it's not superior.
This is why you sell and not install. The micro inverters are good but if one fails it’s a lot more problematic to fix removing a ton of panels to fix the one down panel. Rather than an inverter failing is on the ground for a easy fast swap. I have been doing SolarEdge for 6 years and in that time only had an inverter fail if it was wired wrong. Maybe 1 out of every 300 inverters might go bad so your numbers are way off.
Hey Travis. I work directly with the contractors/installers. I’m not a disconnected 3rd party salesman. Pretty much everyone agrees in San Diego at least that Enphase is proving to be far more reliable. I don’t even hardly come up against SolarEdge quotes anymore. I hear this common misconception that you’ll need to remove a bunch of panels in order to get to the inverter that needs replacing. But, I don’t understand this because most arrays are not going to be more than 3 panels deep and even if it is, unscrewing a panel and placing it to the side takes all of 30 seconds. At Alltech Solar here is San Diego we have, for the most part, gone away from selling SolarEdge unless it’s a particular application it makes better sense for. I have seen too many failures with my own eyes and had too many conversations about other systems that have failed with contractors and homeowners to go back. I have only had to replace 3 micro-inverters to this day so the difficult scenario you speak of is so unlikely.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting I held my tongue until now but that's just total crap. San Diego does not have a consensus on this. I see SolarEdge quotes all the time. Semper is the largest installer in So Cal and uses SolarEdge. In 2019 US Residential Market Share favored SolarEdge 60% to 20%. Ask CED or Krannich what their SolarEdge to Enphase sales are. You lost a lot of credibility my friend.
@@michaelsnell4408 whatever you say my dude. All I can share are my experiences and I just don’t seem to come across SolarEdge quotes often anymore. Of course some of the big names are still using them because it’s ultimately a bit less expensive upfront to purchase and this is a competitive market, but for the most part I see Enphase everywhere now. I’m not biased. I just go off of my experiences and I share what I come across working in the field on a daily basis
Sorry, I have to disagree that Enphase is always better than SolarEdge. I am a solar contractor and have been in the industry in CA since 2004. The old Enphase failed a lot, the new much better but still fairly young to know LT quality. I have put in MANY SE systems and don't have the inverters failing often, maybe twice. I am roughly split between Enphase and SE installs. Not doing any string inverters anymore. Too bad because SMA was a great company with a great product. How do so many people in the industry get any work done with all the videos you all are making?
@@Superiorsolarconsulting I have put in Enphase since the M190 in 2009. I am putting in IQ7 series now. But the IQ series only started in 2017. So like I said, it's too early to tell how they will fare in the LT.
It would be useful with some statistics on lifespan and MTBF instead of personal experiences, e.g. I presume the age of the string inverters you have seen is higher on average than that of the micro inverters, you have installed the past three years. If you live in countries with poor grid reliability I can see why you prefer to see five single micro inverters fail over ten years rather than one string inverter over the same period (if they had similar MTBF), but for the rest of us with a grid that hardly ever drops out and when it does, only for seconds or minutes, it's better to have to replace one component (in a convenient location) rather than five (on the roof, under the panels).
Don’t really have concrete numbers except for my own experience. In 2020 I haven’t had a single Enphase problem. We’ve had several SolarEdge HD Wave’s fail this year that were installed in 2016-2018. Most companies are going away from central inverters completely because they’ve become a headache for contractors since now the failure rates have proven to be a time waster for everyone involved. Replacing 5 micro-inverters on the roof is cheaper and easier than replacing a central inverter. Would take about the same time and cost the same amount. That’s for 5 micros failing too. Realistically we would be dealing with one micro-replacement which is way cheaper and takes about 5 minutes.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting Thanks for sharing your experience. Why is it easier and quicker on the roof rather than in the garage (e.g.)? Does it take a certified electrical installer (don't know exactly what you call that fella), not just a "regular" technician?
@@karstenstigmezinirasmussen7786 the central inverter unit, for one, is much more expensive than a single micro-inverter. Replacing a micro-inverter requires lifting the panels, unscrewing the existing micro, and then screwing the new one on the rail. It doesn’t take more than a few minutes. I don’t understand the argument that “you have to get on the roof” because that isn’t really a hurdle for an electrician. It takes 30 second to get the ladder from the truck. A central inverter isn’t necessarily difficult to replace but it has to be remounted and if it’s not being replaced under the warranty for free it’ll cost a lot more. Meanwhile your entire system wasn’t producing anything vs with micros only one panel was affected.
@@Superiorsolarconsulting But really, what we need are reliable components with a long product life, so that focus can be moved to the functional performance.
I've seen real world testing that was pretty shocking: SolarEdge got over 20% more power vs traditional, not 3%. Presumably micro inverters have the same advantage. HOWEVER, the video makes a FALSE claim: "no single point of failure." All of those micro inverter outputs get to the house through a "Combiner"... which only has a five year warranty! (It HAS to be that way, otherwise you'd have a huge cable for 100 Amp AC power on the roof LOL) Sorry, from my perspective that's not as good as a system with 25 year warranty start to finish. The real difference: DC on the roof or AC on the roof. I"m not sure one has a huge advantage over the other.
If both systems are working properly then of course there will almost no difference in user experience. The problem is that centralized inverters are still not even close to as reliable as the Enphase micros. So, if someone is looking at the dozen or so main options available on the market today and wanting the most bulletproof reliable system as possible, the Enphase system is the way to go based on real world experience. The combiner does have a 5 year warranty but that’s because of monitoring/wifi hardware potentially becoming outdated in the future. I’ve never seen a combiner fail in 5 years. SolarEdge had this issue already and made customers pay out of pocket. Read here. marketing.solaredge.com/en-us/3g-sunset-replacement-options
I also installed the 190s back in 2010. They are junk. I have 36 panels and have now replaced all the enphase inverters twice. I believe it's a heat issue that makes them fail. At first enphase would pay the whole bill. Now the just send another one and I have to pay the installer to replace it.
PROBLEM WITH MICRO INVERTERS NOT RATED TO WORK ABOVE 149 degrees F OPTIMIZERS RATED FOR 185 YOUR ALSO FORGETTING OPTIMIZERS TURN THE SYSTEM ON EARLIER Did you just say 99% of inverters go out? NAH
New videos have good microphones and I will be coming out with an updated video on this topic very soon. This video is several years old as you can see
I held my tongue until now but your comments are just total crap. Your entire argument rests on a naive analysis of a single-point failure and false failure rate data. There are many more factors than that that you didn't even touch on. You sound like a salesman not a technical consultant. Being in the industry for three years doesn't make you an expert. Never seen a panel fail? You haven't been around. It's rare but it does happen. I've installed SolarEdge products for over 5 years and three generations of inverter, and have experienced nothing like a 15% inverter failure rate. I've lost a handful of inverters over the years but the monitoring system identifies them immediately and qualified installers can replace them usually in a day. Many times I can remotely reset or repair the optimizers and solve the problem. Furthermore SolarEdge pays us for the labor to replace the inverter or an optimizer, Enphase does not. Optimizer failures are exceedingly rare. There are a number of reasons SolarEdge leads in market share. Early on comparisons of SolarEdge to the Enphase M-series was hands down in favor of SolarEdge. The part count in a micro is far higher than an optimizer, the voltage bandwidth is lower in a micro than an optimizer, inverting at higher temperatures on the roof is less efficient, leaving the optimized system with a very small advantage in overall efficiency. The warranty for SolarEdge inverters comes in 12-, 20-, or 25-year options. I always opt for the 25-yr for customers. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with micros, I've used Enphase, they were a pioneer in this area, and I will continue to find individual instances where micros make more sense. Their decision to move from the M and S series to the IQ was definitely an improvement, but not being backward compatible was a terrible engineering decision, and led to a lot of heartache for the customer wanting to expand their older system. And Enphase costs roughly 20% more than SolarEdge for same-sized systems. Their battery solution has also been slow to market and their offering is still way overpriced and inelegant. If it weren't for SunPower's partnership with Enphase and bolstering their IQ series they might well be out of business by now. I also saw your comment about not seeing SolarEdge in the market. What in the bleeding hell are you talking about? In 2019 the US Residential Market Share favored SolarEdge 60% to 20% and reports twice the revenue as Enphase. I run up against SolarEdge quotes all the time. Some of the largest installers in So Cal use SolarEdge, Semper, SunRun, etc. Ask CED or Krannich, the two biggest distributors in San Diego, what their SolarEdge to Enphase sales are. I'm really sorry but you lost a lot of credibility with this video my friend.
This is full of BS, how autonomous can you be if you depend on the grid at all times? You explain none of this. Micro inverters are best for installers only not for consumers…
Well buddy, without a battery both systems will leave you relying on the grid. Enphase is actually the only system now you’re able to have backup without a battery. Pretty sure with the hundreds of replacements SolarEdge failures are causing, micros are proving to be better for both the consumer and installer. Sell your SolarEdge stock…. Iykyk If you’re not in the industry, you sound like the student trying to explain the lesson to the professor. If you are in the industry, I wish you luck and hope you can get a better manager soon
I've been designing solar for over 10 years. The cost of micro inverters are nearly 2X higher than the SolarEdge inverter. Compare a 7.6kW SE inverter against 28 Enphase IQ-72 cell inverters. The difference is over $2000. The SolarEdge inverter would need to be off-line continuously for nearly 2 years for the customer to lose that much revenue, given the low $/kWh cost here in NC. SolarEdge's inverter can be replaced in 1 or 2 weeks, or sooner if you're O&M department keeps a few spares on hand. IMO, your argument for reliability is moot, because our O&M department would never let the SE inverter remain off-line for 2 years. So from a cost perspective, the initial cost savings, given that there are payments with interest being made on the total loan, is better for the customer than what is gained by the added reliability.
@@indman101 With NEC 2017, Rapid Shutdown has to be done at the panel level, which means pretty much everyone has to use optimizers these days. So that advantage is practically gone. There are some straggler states that haven't adopted NEC 2017 yet.
That's a crazy price difference. I install in California and the prices I get for micros is hardly more than the SolarEdge system after you add optimizer cost in
@@integra8502 Tesla partnered with Panasonic so a Tesla panel is a rebranded Panasonic panel. But, the partnership is ending so Im not sure what Tesla will be rebranding next. Tesla does't actually build panels. They are manufacturing batteries in the gigafactory, not panels
Enphase sucks totally, they are at least 1 or even 2 years behind the solar panel industry, which means if you build with new higher wattage panel your junk Enphase microinverters cant cope with that high wattage level so you end up typically losing 20-30% of generated power due to the Enphase micros max power output level. "Indian" Enphase is doom to die. Not to mention build quality of Enphase micros, paint will be gone in a few years on coastal salty air areas. Avoid that junk!!!!
Clipping isn’t quite the issue people think and will be a less percentage drop than what you’d originally assume. With that being said, I’ve been selling the REC alpha series with IQ7A and there is no clipping at all. I’ve never had an Enphase failure... SolarEdge I’ve had many
@@thesolarexpert4735 yeah those who are actually on the field everyday dealing with previously installed systems know how much more reliable Enphase IQ series are vs SolarEdge
