Not only does this guy know his info and u can tell right away he truely has studied the instrument of drums and is a true gearhead. Not only that but he is also a great presenter and very good at talking without coming off as arrogant or a know it all. Some dudes just have a knack of speaking and teaching in the most authentic way, guys like Chris Coleman, mike Johnston, Matt halpern, Todd succherman, and this guy is very good at talking and communicating the info he has inside of him.
Aww thanks man! This is Cody the host and I really appreciate the kind words. I really want this knowledge out there without anyone feeling left out or put down about their abilities or experience. Glad it’s working! :)
Yep, can confirm, you're awesome. Easily my new favourite drum channel. My only critique is the demos should be a bit longer so we can enjoy your playing and get a deeper feeling for the sound.
I'm a singer songwriter. But that's like...a job. I started playing drums about 10 years ago for fun...it's still fun. I won't take lessons.I don't follow any rules. I just drum. I tune my drums like a would tune a guitar. I try different heads. Different shells and hoops. Different sticks ( my go to stick is kind of a weird Xcel speedstick 5b made out of maple. My favorite snares are pork pie ... 13x7 brass patina, but I'm playing the maple version now and love the rimshots. I do it to have fun. I fill in for drummers, but I can also sing and play guitar or bass or kinda whatever. But drums are so musically complicated, diverse and fun. There's so many dynamics going on, its like 4 instruments all at once. I feel free to experiment however I want. Recently I started playing a Tama Dyna Sync pedal. Woooooooah! It took a few weeks but its like leveling up x 10 once u can tame it. My point? I love playing drums cause its fun AND musical. And I don't feel inhibited when I play. I really try everything I can think of to get the sounds I want. Currently, I use a 12x7, 14x9, and......13x14 tuned real low with evans E2 coated heads AND muffling rings or BFS to reall make it thud. The 12 and 14 toms have 2 ply cleats. 20x10 bass drum sounds like Bonham with a sharp attack when using the Dyna Sync pedal. Thanks for this YT channel! Everyone, experiment and do things whatever way u need to get the sound u want.
Absolutely agree. I spend a lot of time experimenting with my tom tunings. I tune my bottom heads a little lower than the top. Just my personal preference.
This is EXACTLY what I've been looking for, thank you! Oh, and you can count me as one of the regulars from now on; I want to see what else you come up with :)
You are a wealth of knowledge good sir. The take away is, experiment around with different tunings and different disciplines. What you think something should be and what something actually is. Doesn’t always meet in the middle. There are so many close minded know it all’s that give drum lessons or guitar lessons. The whole reason someone plays music is to express themselves not follow more poorly given advice. Again thank you!
Thanks for the feedback! Photo vs. video color ends up being two vastly different things. Editing our videos like these photos would be a bit heavy on the contrast, which hides some of the details we want to protect. Cheers! -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum thanks for the reply. Maybe if it was even half way in between where it's at right now so it "kinda?" Looks like the thumbnail but just not AS saturated/contrast?
Simon Phillips said once in a video that you should look at the whole drum set as one instrument. For example if you have a big kit but only using part of it on a track, the rest of the kit is still apart of the instruments sound just by resonating along with the rest of the kit. Don’t take away parts of the drum kit if you’re not using it or you end up taking away part of your instruments sound. All the drums in your set resonate together to create the overall sound. Get your snare and toms right and your kit will sing.
I worry about my toms all the time. I tune them low and I hit so hard my tension rods loosen and have even fallen out whiel playing lol Hey I've only been playing drums for 6 months I usually dial in my snare sound and leave it.
Good info. 99.999% of drummers all sound the same and there's a lot of peer pressure and hipster influence creates this atmosphere. Same shit in the studio.
It's weird I was always told leave the reso head looser than the batter cause it can send more sound out to the audience cause back in the day you didn't have foh and mic's so I've been doing that.
This is so true. So much time is spent to create a certain snare sound or a great kick sound but rarely are we taught to bring all the voices of the instrument together, nor are we encouraged to go for an against the grain sound in the toms and the kit as a whole. Great video ; your channel is a joy to follow with your creative sonic ideas.
Thanks man! Really glad it's speaking to people. It's great to help other players get on the path to exploring the sound they're making and finding new ways to get stoked about the possibilities :)
Do these 2 tuning differ in how they affect projection ? For instance how would the difference sound to an audience 5, 10 or 20 feet away ? I would guess that many sound engineers at live shows would prefer the lower batter tuning if they are close micing.
Hey! I don’t think there is an intrinsic difference in projection between the two tunings, but I think I would go for higher tuning if I wanted more articulation on stage for myself and the band and especially if the drums aren’t mic’d. Regarding sound engineers, I’ve never had a live engineer express concerns about high or low batter tunings. If there a severe overtone cutting through I’ll fuss to get rid of it but that’s more for me than for the engineer. A solid engineer will be able to bring your preferred acoustic sound through the PA rather than telling you how you should sound :) cheers!
I think it would be great to do a video on how to tune for small venues unmiced and how different the drums sound behind the kit vs in the audience. In church venues, you can’t overcome the acoustic sound of the toms with mics because they won’t let you turn the mics up to overcome the acoustic sound because the mics are too loud.
Have you ever tried tuning the bottom head to the shell pitch and doing whatever up top (lower or higher)? I find this is a nice resonance for the toms. Wonder your thoughts?
This is such an interesting topic and again something that is not talked about a bunch in the drumming community! Is there an application that you would use a loosely tuned rack tom in a gigging or studio situation? Additionally, what are some head recommendations for those scenarios. I loved the example of the two pinstripes on the floor tom, I'm for sure going to try that!!
Oh sure, there are definitely all sorts of opportunities to choose loose batters rather than tight. To me, with toms tuned down, you're choosing immediacy of attack rather than immediacy of tone and certainly in rock or pop situations that can be fantastic. Sometimes when I see some of the best guys in the extreme metal scene, their floor toms tuned way down and almost sound like secondary bass drums when they play patterns that mix kick and floor toms at high speed - super cool. That sort of tuning scheme can also reduce the possibility of dissonance between the toms themselves or between the toms and other instruments on stage that share the same register by shortening the overall note of each drum, making it super useful for situations that have really dense/busy stuff happening in the toms. Regarding heads, I kinda think you can use whatever you want because they're all gonna react differently to a low tuning and give you interesting options. Having said that, if I know i'm gonna be using a very low tuning I'll go for a thicker or 2 ply head. It's a little bit for the sound (more fundamental because more mass in a thicker head), but mostly for durability because a very slack head on a tom is going to deform and wear out under the stick faster than one tuned in the mid or high range. You can't rely as much on rebound with a loose head, so the force of the stick is getting flatly transferred to the head without giving much return to the stick and this will make the batter wear out relatively fast. I also associate low tuning with harder-hitting situations stylistically, so that also contributes to wanting a tougher head on there. Hope that helps!
Another thing to keep in mind is that, when you tune super low, you can balance that immediacy of attack with some enhanced tone via compression (if you've got mics on the drums). Tuning drums super low/flat runs the risk of them not projecting well if you're unmic'd and playing a larger space. The drums may sound killer from directly above but from 15 feet away, they might be barely audible (and if they are, they may sound like hitting a cardboard box or a wet paper bag). It's important to account for the context when making these decisions to understand how your sound is carrying to the listener.
I‘ve already subbed and shared your Channel after the first video i saw. 👍🏻 your Tipps are a real gift, because i‘ve had some trouble Tuning my 20ply bubinga snare, but now i have it, big THANKS! 😉
Well done gentlemen. Another awesomely informative and organized video. This is my favorite channel on RU-vid. 👍👍 you guys aught to come on the road with me and do some videos about live situations that drummers have to face on the gig. I’m constantly changing the tones of my drums from night to night to best fit the sound of the theater or club. It’s something that you run into and yet no one talks about. It’s funny because I heard you guys refer to this information as “drumming 101”, but this information is pro-level tips that you can only learn in a live situations and or the studio. Keep up the great work fellas.
Drummers are often strong at rhythm but weak in melody and harmony. I’m a guitarist who came to drums quite late in life, and so let me share the intervals that I tune my drums to. First, avoid 2nds (too close and dissonant), tritones (#4 aka b5; sounds like a European police siren), and the major 7th (too close to the root or 1). The 4th, 5th, and octave are known as “perfect” intervals; they are you best choices if you only use two toms. I like them in this order: octave, 5th, 4th. The next best intervals are 3rds, 6ths, and b7, and probably in that order. Unlike the perfect intervals, these ones will be major or minor. You will probably use these if you have 4 or more toms. I tune my 10-12-13-14-16 toms like this: 14” floor is the root or 1 of the toms. 12” rack is a 5th above. 16” floor is a 4th below the 14” floor. 10” rack is a b3 above the 12” (also a b7 above the 14” floor tom root or 1). 13” rack is a b3 above the 14” floor. That makes a minor 7 chord with an extra 5th in the 16”. The formula from 16 to 10 is: 5-1-b3-5-b7. Any combination of those toms will be in harmony with each other, no dissonant Intervals. It’s the only common chord that has no dissonant intervals. If you want the toms to sound major instead of minor then raise the 13” from a b3 to a 3rd above the 14”. Also raise the 10” from a b7 to a full octave above the 14”. (Otherwise you get a nasty tritone between the 13” and the 10”.) This is my SUGGESTION for Tom tuning.
Thanx Cody, your knowledge has brought me to a much more comfortable, confident place behind my kit!👍🏻 I’m loving the bop range for my toms, but my issue is that I’m also starting to enjoy a lower tuned snare(top and bottom). But, I am the guy that has to have his snare tuned higher then my high/first tom. Otherwise, it just feels wrong!😆 Wondering if that’s just something that we accept and get over with time?
Hey guys, great video as always. I get inspired to try stuff every single time :) I was wondering if you might have any recommendations for tuning my toms. They are 12 and 16 inches in diameter, respectively, with 5 lugs. They are pretty cheaply made I have to admit and especially the 12 tends to give me weird overtones. Do you guys know of any "recipe" for getting a decent sound out of cheap toms? Thanks, I love the channel and you guys are great!
Hey there! I'd say first and foremost, make sure that both the batter AND resonant heads are in good shape. If the reso's are more than 9 months to a year old, you should definitely change them. Second, i'm of the opinion that using thicker heads on toms tends to take the quality of the drum a bit more out of the equation and you end up with the head defining the sound of the drum and not the other way around. As far as tuning goes, I wouldn't treat a 'cheap' drum any different than a fancy/expensive one. Just try different pitch ratios between the top and bottom heads and see what you get! Cheers :)
Great video! I tend to favor tuning the top head higher whenever I can get away with it. I gave it a try after seeing Steve Maxwell's video. For me, it's a great way to get a lower pitch out of a smaller drum while retaining rebound and projection.
Oh man, this video deserve a lot more views. Now that i’m conscious about this i want my personal and effective sound, not just effective. What about drumsticks? Have you done a video about which one to select?
Stumbled onto this channel a few days ago now. I'm doing as much research as possible before I get back on the throne, after such a long hiatus I'm nervous that all my prior knowledge has been lost. I've spent the last half decade enlisted in the army and completely put music on the back burner. Now that I'm transitioning back I've decided it's time to take my drumming where I've never gone before. Im waiting on a birch/maple mapex set, with naturally a boat load of hardware. I'll be trying meinl classic cymbals this go around but the main ingredient on my side is time. I truly feel like a student of music again, and I couldn't ask for a better teacher. Phenomenal videos, you've got another subscriber in me please keep up the amazing work, such good advise for any and all aspiring percussionist. Truly giving us so many ideas, with a great combination of unorthodox ideas to keep us on our toes. 👌🤓
I'm a die hard "same tuning for top and bottom" guy. I'm very obsessive about tom tuning and I feel like the two heads speak to each other more effectively and allows for much better resonance and longer sustain.
Wow - I saw Dave King a couple of months ago with The Bad Plus, and I even went up to the stage pre-gig to check out his kit. I looked at his cymbals and the drum sizes... _completely_ missed the fact that he uses Pinstripes on the floor tom. This sort of video is exactly why I watch RU-vid--things that are "obvious," but only when someone else tells you!
This is actually how I currently have been tuning my heads because I just wasn’t liking the low end on the 12 and 16 toms so I changed them first and then changed the 10 to match even though I currently have suedes on them and am looking for hydraulics possibly, I end up having the capability to play your basic core beats and grooves, but then to also funk em up a little bit and I love being able to hit rimshots at will and with different force on the toms and not just my snare; it really adds to the feel of your groove as a whole when you can get some funky tom fills in
Your channel is fantastic. I grew tired of always getting an answer along the lines of, "I just mess with them until they sound good," when asking a guy how he tunes. Sure, there are a lot of variables, but you can control enough of them to be able to get close to the sound you like any time you set up a kit! I'd love to hear your opinion on tuning for jazz. I play a 12/14/18 Yamaha MCA and run coated ambassadors on both sides of the toms. The hoops are dyna hoops. Over the years, I've learned that I need to raise the pitches of the drums so as not to sound muddy out front. However, I don't dig Max Roach land--I still like the drums to sing! I've settled on fundamental pitches of C/F/G for the floor, rack, and snare respectively. I like the 4th and the 5th I get relative to the floor tom. I get there by tuning the resonant head about a whole step higher than the batter on both toms (typical approach). For example, I have a Db/Eb on the 12" to get the F overall. I have the snare side head fairly higher (around a G#). I'm considering loosening the resonant heads a bit, but I'm not sure how well this tight batter head approach works for higher tunings. Getting back to a C and F would require a really stiff feel on the batter. I know I don't like matching the two; it gives a weird 80s sound to my ears. I like warm, full, but with an appropriate decay. Vintage jazz sound! I'd love your thoughts. Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge for free.
Hey there! Glad you're digging the channel :) This is super interesting, I don't often get to hear about a player's tuning scheme with this degree of specificity! For me personally, I don't often try to go for a specific pitches on certain drums, but I do listen for the approximate intervals between bottom/top heads and between the drums. I grew up playing guitar as a kid and still do a bit, and hearing the kit as harmonious within itself really appeals to me, especially when soloing and working through melodic concepts. I generally play a 4-piece kit in the same sizes as yours, and I will gravitate toward a perfect 4th between the toms for sure. The snare pitch changes from day to day, but I notice it often being around a minor 3rd above the rack tom, so it might be floor=C, rack=F and snare =Ab. I like that relationship because any two of the voices are going to great an interval that my ear likes for playing around the kit and building ideas. The kick resides somewhere below all of that, but it's less of a pitch thing and more of a feel thing for me as far as its specific note goes. Now for the actually individual drums, I find that head choice can really change what ends up working for a certain instrument but for the most part I do tune the batters a little tighter than the reso's for jazz, specifically for that stiffer feel that you mentioned. I definitely never go table-top-tight with any of my drums because I like the sensation of being able to sink the stick into the heads a bit, but with a straight ahead bop kit I'll go on the tighter side for sure. This is primarily for a physical sense of articulation at low volumes on all the drums, and also for projecting that articulation to the audience in a way that is clear and musical without being too boomy. I once heard a classic older jazz player (I think it was Ed Thigpin) say that his approach to tuning was to go higher as the size of the band got smaller, i.e. boomier and lower for bigband / tight and articulate for trio etc., because you want to take up a certain amount of sonic space and you're competing with the brass section in the large ensemble, so lower tones come up from underneath and support vs. a small trio where you don't want to get in the way of the subtleties of the piano's midrange or stomp on the low end of the upright bass. Sorry, long tangent - anyway, once I'm happy with the feel and pitch of the batters, it's down to the reso's to control the tone of these tight batters and I find that some drums want the reso a half to whole-step higher and others want it tuned lower to a similar degree. For me I have to just experiment with small turns of the drum key and some testing to see what gives me the right combination of tone and clarity. Hope that helps! Happy to gab more about it :)
There is absolutely no need to apologize for the long post. You are clearly passionate about this, and I love that! I didn't specifically target those notes from the beginning; it was more the zone where I found my drums sound good after trial-and-error. So, now I know approximately where I need to be whenever changing things. I've heard of some other guys bringing the snare up a minor third from the rack tom. I think I'm going to try that as it will also give me a little more spread across the drums, even if only by a half step. I love that you mentioned Ed Thigpen. My main group is a guitar trio, and we actually play a number of Oscar Peterson tunes. Honing in on Ed's approach would do me well! I'll still use slightly larger cymbals than Mr. Thigpen, though (didn't he ride an 18" in the main spot?). I've also heard that smaller cymbals work well for the smaller groups, too. I've dropped my 22s for a 20 in the main spot in the last year. People talk about providing a cushion for soloists, but 22s can feel like a fully padded room--way too much. Thanks once again for all of your help. I am going to tighten the batters a bit, and drop the reso heads comparably to get around the same place to start (so maybe 1/2 to a whole step difference). That will probably also help keep the feel a little more consistent between the toms and the snare as the toms currently are a bit more giving under the stick.
You are ABSOLUTELY on par with your beliefs as the drum kit being a vital member of the instrumental family. As a 30-year plus veteran of the skins I've been using a similar technique for about the last 10 years. My standard setup right now is as follows-1976 Ludwig Maple Super Classic.14x20kick 8x12tom,on a snare stand 14x14flr 16x16flr 5.5x14snare. However my snare drum is a noble and Cooley Maple mahogany with a 40° Edge. Of course I have several snares but we all have our favorite.The band that I'm in currently is in the same genre as the Stone's, the Faces and Fleetwood Mac pre Stevie Nicks, with Peter Green and Jeremy Spencer, when they were laying down some serious blues. This Is when the band was at their best in my humble opinion.My snare is tuned mid-range straight ahead but my Tom is more of a Bop sound so I can get tone out of it at lower volumes and also good Rim shots like you were talking about. My 14 inch floor tom is just a tad lower than Bop and my 16 in is just above finger tight. My kick drum, all the wrinkles out on the reso head then just about a 1/4 turn for some resonance and no mike hole. The batter head about the same. I should mention the batter side of my kick is recut to a 30°degree Gretsch style bearing edge the front reso head is a double 45° cut. I typically use the felt side of the beater so I can get the best of all the genres.Pop,rock,jazz, new wave, swing Of course I do make adjustments when it comes to a metal or speed metal gig. I'll use the plastic side of the beater to get more attack. I love the way my kit is working for my gigs right now,if I really want to lay into a thick meaty fill I'll just dig into the 16 and my kick drum at the same time which gives me that fundamentally low meat for more of a rock metal sound. And if I'm just going from a verse to a course and need to put a little fill, I'll just roll off my snare on to my Tom and gradually increase the volume up on my Tom to my 14x14 until I get the desired volume that's needed.It's wonderful. I can't tell you how happy I am I came across your Channel I will be subscribing and looking forward to Future vlogs and I'm going to go back and look at some of the past ones. I wish you nothing but good luck in your future endeavors.
That's similar to the Evans Level 360 collar and the Remo Classic Fit but taking it from the perspective of the drum builder. It does make a difference but it's not really necessary if the heads are designed to appropriately fit the shell. Cheers! -Ben
Sorry, but the Tom Heads are not in tune to themself (even tuned), in other Videos too. I can not hear a distinct note. Try the TuneBot it´s amazing, especially when you tune to real note values. I never thought it´s that important but it changed my sound in the band context tremendously. And btw i really like tuning the batter and reso head to the same note. It´s much clearer without the pitch envelope effect. How do you reference your pitch when you said a perfect fourth ? Like your channel a lot, Thanks
Not sure how you came to that conclusion (that the drum isn't in tune with itself) unless you define being in tune as have the same note as you stated you prefer. That's great for a certain sound but there are lots of options to go with depending on the preferred sound (which is what this episode is all about). Lots of people prefer the pitch envelope effect. We're not really a fan of TuneBots, Drum Dials or Tension Watches, though if it works for you then that's great! We want to teach people to use their ears and focus on the qualitative result, as that's where the value comes from. With regards to the interval between the heads, we're simply listening to the two pitches (batter and reso) and determining the interval between the two based off of some ear training. Glad to hear that you're enjoying the channel!
I was pleasantly surprised to find that my toms sounded a lot more aggressive when I tuned them higher. They really fit the music I play, which is heavy, nasty metal with a lot of low ends and high ends. Always worth trying new things.
What a lesson, buddy! Totally suscribed. Recently i've been into figure the sound of my drum kit; i've been searching tuning tricks, listening drum head reviews, even watching drummers soloing with different kits. All of that in order to understand what's happening, what are they doing and how are they doing it. Your video has helped me to land part of those concepts i've been dealing with. Thanks for your help and congratulations, you are a great speaker.
Love this! I really like the sound of tuning top and bottom to the same note, which seems to achieve max tone (I want the drums to sing!). I'm planning to experiment with using the same head on both sides with the theory that I can get max tone in attack by tuning the same head to the same pitch on both sides and also control resonance by how heavy of a head I choose (maybe try emperors first?). Any thoughts or experience with this approach?
Hey! That’s an interesting idea. I had a friend who did that with Pinstripes back in high school and loved it. I’m not sure that identical heads will actually get you the most resonance since the two heads play different roles in generating the sound. I haven’t done it myself but no harm trying! -Cody
Nice video, great work, thank you. I've found a tighter batter can also feel stiffer and hitting it hard requires a very relaxed grip and touch. A lower batter can be a bit more forgiving for harder hitters who tend to dig in.
Absolutely! The feel can really dictate a different approach. The rebound from a tighter head is really uncomfortable when you’re used to a slack tuning and one definitely can’t replace the other. Experimenting with tighter tunings did really tell me a lot about how I was utilizing the weight of the stick and tensing up - both issues I hadn’t considered so deeply where toms were concerned. Cheers!
Once again a stimulating, thought provoking presentation.Wwhat your presentations do for me is encourage me to experiment and try different things. There is not one right way. Love it.
One time I used an 8" 10" and 12" (used as a floor tom), and a 18" Kick for... acoustic country, southern rock, some jimmy buffet and folk music! SOUNDED GREAT!!! Tuned the small toms at a medium pitch, but with higher resos, and tuned that 12" almost as low as a 16" floor tom, then used some moongells to create a slightly dry sound.
Hey there! I'd say it's better to see it in action than to try to parse out the sound from just a recording - I recommend hunting around RU-vid for a documentary called "A Different Drummer" - I know there are some clips. You can really get a pure idea of his sound and approach that way. Cheers!
Doing ringshots on your toms is just asking for trouble tuning wise... oh and tuning the batter head higher makes me cringe, but for experimentation purposes, break a leg i guess.
Some would say that even moving your drums is just asking for trouble with tuning but it's tough to get the drums to the gig if you don't move them. That is to say, if you're looking to achieve a specific sound, it may come at a cost. Luckily, it takes very little time to pull out a key and make an adjustment between tunes. I've found that die-cast hoops are a bit more resistant to rimshots on toms as well. As far as the higher tuned batter- it's not necessarily for everyone, but it's often quite necessary for certain styles of playing/genres of music. The best thing you can do is experiment and have a variety of options at your disposal so you can adapt to the scenario. Thanks for watching!
@@SoundsLikeADrum any experience using loctite on lugs? My snare lugs are constantly coming loose, so thinking about giving it a...wait for it...shot! *ba-dum-ting*
Hey! Nope, haven't ever done that. I tend to go the other way and make sure to lubricate the screws to protect them and make tuning smoother. For hard hitting situations I just use the plastic lug locks on the ends of the lugs. Putting anything else in there spooks me a little :) - Cody
It’s an absolute pleasure especially as a newer drummer to learn what your channel has to teach especially in such a smooth and cool way, cheers mates.
From the intro my snare sounds great my rack Tom sounds like a vintage heads. My bass drum sounds amazing love it my floor Tom meh have trouble getting it right
