Тёмный

EP 130: Katie Herzog: Unblocked and Recorded 

Gender: A Wider Lens
Подписаться 14 тыс.
Просмотров 11 тыс.
50% 1

In this episode, Sasha and Stella eagerly welcome journalist Katie Herzog, who is also co-host with Jesse Singal on the popular podcast Blocked & Reported (aka BARPod). This dynamic discussion covers a wide range of topics, including Katie’s experiences and observations over the past two decades as a lesbian in the queer / LGBTQ+ community, especially pertaining to trans identities. They also explore Katie’s reflections from her influential 2017 article on detransitioners, The Detransitioners: They Were Transgender, Until They Weren't, and how her perspective on gender has evolved in the aftermath of its publication. The conversation even delves into repressed memories, different approaches to psychotherapy, nonbinary identities, and the particularly interesting, important and controversial topic - preferred pronouns. Katie, known well for both her wit and thoughtfulness, brings a unique perspective to these discussions, much like she lends to her own work and content.
Catch our bonus content with Katie Herzog on our Listener Community: / posts
Links:
Blocked and Reported (Katie’s Podcast with Jesse Singal)
www.blockedand...
The Detransitioners: They Were Transgender, Until They Weren't
www.thestrange...
A Response to the Uproar Over My Piece, "The Detransitioners"
www.thestrange...
Katie’s Work with The Stranger (including articles linked above)
www.thestrange...
A Segment from Katie’s Appearance on Real Time With Bill Maher
• Katie Herzog & Andrew ...
Please visit www.widerlenspod.com to explore more content, access additional resources, or to join our listener community.
Pre-Order When Kids Say They’re Trans: A Guide for Thoughtful Parents
whenkidssaythe...
Attend Our Live Event - When Kids Say They’re Trans: Weekend of Workshops | September 21-24, 2023
whenkidssaythe...
If you liked this episode, more episodes you might find interesting:
Episode 1 - Trans: Identity vs Dysphoria
• EPISODE 1 - Trans: Ide...
Episode 8 - TransGenerational Wisdom: A conversation with Buck Angel
• EPISODE 8 - TransGene...
Episode 35 - Communicating About Gender: Translating Between Parent & Child
• EPISODE 35 - Communica...
Episode 39 - Nonbinary Identities
• EPISODE 39 - Nonbinary...
Episode 41 - Trans: A Conversation with Helen Joyce
• EPISODE 41 - Trans: A ...
Episode 52 - Gender Dysphoria & Detransition Research: A Conversation W/ Dr. Lisa Littman
• EPISODE 52 - Gender Dy...
Episode 71 - Gender: The American State of Affairs w Jesse Singal
• EPISODE 71 - Gender: T...
Episode 88 - Gender: Philosophy, Institutions, and Policy w/ Leor Sapir
• EPISODE 88 - Gender: P...
Episode 93 - A Takedown of Gender Politics with Wesley Yang
• EPISODE 93 - A Takedow...
For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups:
Sasha Ayad: inspiredteenth...
Stella O’Malley: www.stellaomall...
To learn more about our sponsors, visit:
GETA: www.genderexpl...
ReIME: rethinkime.org/
Genspect: genspect.org/

Опубликовано:

 

11 сен 2024

Поделиться:

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист
Посмотреть позже
Комментарии : 247   
@widerlenspod
@widerlenspod Год назад
If you enjoyed this episode please remember to like and subscribe! Also visit our Substack here www.widerlenspod.com/ and sign up for a Paid Subscription for Bonus Content with Katie Herzog and other guests. It is the best way to support this show. Thank you so much!
@radubradu
@radubradu Год назад
4:28 No, Dylan does not pass, even after face mutilation surgery. Neither does Blaire, actually. Being in the room with a man pretending to be a woman, you will always know, just by his size.
@ShineOnBenevolentSun
@ShineOnBenevolentSun Год назад
Recently Tomi Lauren interviewed Blaire - just from the thumbnail, you can see the difference. They wear the same center-part long hair, and the side by side comparison reveals the difference in their head-shape.
@sarah_gene
@sarah_gene Год назад
Yeah, it's easy to forget relative stature over zoom and social media. Some of the most telling pictures I've seen are trans ID men and trans ID women in group pictures together.
@lilith3953
@lilith3953 Год назад
Blaire White did an interview with Buck Angel where they sat in the same room together, and neither of them passed in the presence of each other. Blaire was enormous in comparison to Buck, and it was unmistakable that Blaire was a super effeminate gay man who'd had tons of plastic surgery and that Buck was an elderly lesbian with masculine facial hair.
@robertmarshall2502
@robertmarshall2502 Год назад
I once looked up physical stats on E Page who is a man because she's attracted to women.... No red flags there. She's the height and weight of an average 13-yr-old boy. Which means including a bunch of pre-pubescent ones. I'm an average height male which means I'm taller than 98%+ women. I can't remember ever working with a woman my height let alone taller. This year in a new job will be the first time I'm working with a "woman" who towers over me. I saw this "woman" a few times a few months ago aggressively shouting and swearing at children. I genuinely just thought he liked heavy metal music with his straggly thinning hair and thigh high boots and black nail polish. I'm genuinely more feminine than him. I have absolutely no chance of ever "respecting pronouns" all year even if I ignored my actual teaching responsibilities to the children and focused on him. There is simply nothing about him that makes me think "woman" even if he has gotten tits paid for by Spanish healthcare while women are on waiting lists for all kinds of procedures.
@badgerravens408
@badgerravens408 Год назад
Exactly. And even if they did--after you know how Dylan mocked women with his "days of girlhood, how can you say that after his "amazing" surgeries he is now a "she"? It is a religion of Katie Herzog--once you "accept Jesus" i.e. do surgeries and "pass" in highly edited selfies, you become a woman. Yeah, right.
@rmoffat44
@rmoffat44 Год назад
What I can't work out about pronouns - they are only gendered (in English anyway) in 3rd person, in other words talking *about* the person they refer to, not to them. The pronoun does not belong to the person it refers to, but to the person speaking. So I have difficulty with anyone who insists these are "my" pronouns. To me they aren't *theirs* at all.
@AndyJarman
@AndyJarman Год назад
Of course, pronouns are socially negotiated. There are lots of Cissy boys whose friends refer to as she as a sign of recognition and affection for that person. Emily Howard is a prime example of someone desperately trying to impose pronouns as evidence she controls other's perceptions of her (masking?) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-G5ykpBEy95I.htmlsi=D87mGT4YsviPLR2G
@andyk7009
@andyk7009 Год назад
It’s interesting that announcing pronouns is a demand to control how you are talked about when you’re not present. Ie ‘my name is X and I want you to speak Y way about me when I walk away’.
@lilith3953
@lilith3953 Год назад
100%
@robertmarshall2502
@robertmarshall2502 Год назад
I have the same feeling especially as someone fluent I Spanish. Why don't they claim gendered adjectives instead? I spoke to one "non-binary" (written in English because in Spanish you immediately have to gender it) Spanish person who put English pronouns in her profile and was utterly defeated when I asked why she didn't put them in Spanish. She thought it to be ludicrous to use ellos/ellas/"elles". She literally hadn't thought about it other than to announce it to the world as if anyone cared. I think there must be a link to the concept where ppl assume others are talking about them far more than they actually are (Can't remember the name/study). It seems inherently self-centred and to show a lack of empathy to others to dictate pronouns. These are the same ppl who will refuse to budge when someone says I don't like Latinx or Cis. I've also shown that every time someone says "respect pronouns" they're hypocritical. They just have a different line in the sand which usually doesn't extend to neopronouns. But getting them to realize it's not a respect/don't respect binary is impossible. They think in black and white.
@badgerravens408
@badgerravens408 Год назад
as well s the term she used "Respecting Pronouns." I can understand "using" preferred pronouns in public (I wouldn't do it, but I can understand those who want or need to do it), but "respecting?" This is how we got into this hole, by thinking that absolutely everything and everyone "deserves respect." No. Some deserve a good doze of shaming!
@miroirs-jumeaux
@miroirs-jumeaux Год назад
"If you don't play along with my pretending, I will be alienated!" - why would it be any easier for people collectively to change how they refer to one person, rather than to have that one person make the effort of accepting how people see them?
@BelissaCohen
@BelissaCohen Год назад
Yes, that Mr. Erica Anderson is a ghoul in a wig, and I will correctly sex him as "he" until he stops being delusional that he's entitled to the honorific "she." Pronouns are rohypnol and both Anderson and Herzog are groomers.
@FiredUpFeminist
@FiredUpFeminist 2 месяца назад
They want all the attention on them. They’re narcissists.
@PuddilyOops
@PuddilyOops Год назад
What people don’t say or maybe are afraid to say is that some people don’t pass. That’s really it. The whole genital fetish argument is ludicrous when you can easily tell. But nobody ever really says it.
@lilith3953
@lilith3953 Год назад
No man ever passes as a woman. Not when you see them in person. Not if you're a woman. As a woman, our survival and safety depends on being able to tell men (potentially a physical violence and sexual assault risk) and women apart. It happens completely unconsciously.
@robertmarshall2502
@robertmarshall2502 Год назад
If you point out that at age 6 months babies differentiate males and females by face alone (minus hair) you get called a transphobe. It's an innate ability in tons of animals because it keeps us alive as males are more dangerous. (it's actually really interesting that babies can differentiate between other faces of other species and hear sounds that adults can't and then specialize but because we can't get past basic biology of two sexes this whole world is closed off to them) It seems incredibly destructive to me that some ppl feel guilt about their ability to do something. It feels a bit like when ppl overcompensate about noticing someone's race. If you tell me that you are entirely colourblind to race then I'm more suspicious of you than saying yeah I notice it but I don't judge ppl on it. I get the same kind of white saviour noble savage vibes about some of the "allies" when they talk about trans and "cis".
@poonamsvideoblogs
@poonamsvideoblogs Год назад
I say it. If you are reading this and have not said it, please start. We need to rip off the gag.
@HerWanderlust
@HerWanderlust Год назад
Yes, most people do not pass! I am bisexual and I simply tell the truth- I like people for who they are, not their sex…and yet I do not find delusion or rubbing away from who you are attractive in the slightest. It’s nothing to do with gender and everything to do with most of these folks being in the middle of a very disruptive process that does not leave space in their lives for reciprocal relationships
@HerWanderlust
@HerWanderlust Год назад
Running ❤️
@alancoogan7029
@alancoogan7029 Год назад
I'm a husband, stepfather, granddad, retired attorney and senior citizen who also happens to be gay. Oh, and a huge fan of Katie Herzog, Jesse Singal and their podcast. At the start of the interview, Katie hinted at qualms about the term "queer community" but didn't object to it outright. Since Katie didn't take issue with it, I will. Sasha and others, please stop using "queer community" as a blanket term for members of sexual and gender minorities. Many gay people, including me, find it deeply offensive. "Queer" is not the latest synonym for "gay" or "LGB" the way that, say, "Black" has replaced "African American." Instead, it is a hegemonic term that erases our identities as gay men and does the same thing to lesbians and bisexuals. You see, queer is neither a sexual orientation nor a type of gender identity. What is it then? Well, its a scene, a posture, a set of learned attitudes and beliefs shared by a certain element of educated leftist youth. At its doctrinaire worst, queer is antithetical to sexual binaries and sexual orientation (and therefore gay people and same sex marriage) because sex and gender are just social constructs, empty roles assumed by losers who won't surrender to eternal fluidity. Or something. At my uni, the Queer Resource Center (QRC) doesn't acknowledge gay men, lesbians or bisexuals. One is queer, trans or, God help us, cis. Don't go looking for a gay men's game night on the QRC's calendar. Since the QRC is puritanically woke, fun is not on the agenda. www.pdx.edu/queer-resource-center/ At best, queer is the disagreeable clique who live to look down their noses at the rest of us. I could go on and explain why there's no such thing as an "LGB community," but I've gone on long enough. I'll save that for another day.
@terfteeps
@terfteeps Год назад
Some men enjoy making people, women feel uncomfortable as part of their sexual fetish, how do we deal with that?
@FiredUpFeminist
@FiredUpFeminist 2 месяца назад
Exactly right. Men in dresses often behave disgustingly in women’s spaces just to upset and intimidate young girls and women. These men’s sexual fetishes are similar to a peeping tom’s. Before men and boys were suddenly allowed to walk around nude in front of little children and women in our private spaces, I used to think the majority of men actually cared about our privacy and safety. I was very mistaken. Most men now are more worried about hurting the feelings of a guy in a dress than the danger and discomfort that guy poses to his wife, daughter or mother. Women now recognize that we cannot rely on men for our protection because women’s rights have been stripped from us in broad daylight.
@dreimalnein22
@dreimalnein22 Год назад
58:53 wouldn't this unstable sense of self be a good indicator for borderline personality disorder in 80% of cases?
@jessicakullander8517
@jessicakullander8517 Год назад
My neurodivergant kiddo thinks they are trans, and while they would prefer masculine pronouns, we have always emphasized that others see them as their birth gender, so to not get mad if they use that, and have fallen into using nonbinary/they/them to be middle of the road? less confusing when referring to my male children and my other kiddo in conversation. Trans, etc is really big at their school, so I don't want to push too much, and hope its a phase (as they are very fluid/flexible right now and have no dysphoria) I DONT want them to fall into either binary, if they want to be a butch lesbian, great, or a girly girl, sure or someday when they are an adult if they decide, a transsexual person. But for now, I emphasize they are a kid, and should be a kid, and do not have to be any box or label.
@eemoogee160
@eemoogee160 Год назад
That seems like a wise approach as a parent. I'm sure your child will appreciate your respectful guidance later on. 🙂
@CCL-ew7pl
@CCL-ew7pl Год назад
I don't think "they" is middle of the road. It's as incorrect as using "he" instead of she. How does it help your daughter see the reality of her being female? Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh. We all do the best we can but I think "they" is a dangerous lie.
@kyoglesage
@kyoglesage Год назад
@@CCL-ew7plI’m British by birth, born in London’s East End and lived in Surrey until I migrated to Australia. I use ‘they’ as a singular pronoun. Always have done. It was common usage when I was a kid in the 1950s, still was when I left England in my 30s and is still used by many people - including me, at age 76 - here in Australia.
@CCL-ew7pl
@CCL-ew7pl Год назад
@kyoglesage The author says she is using "nonbinary/they /them to be middle of the road". It's not the same as referring to a random person you don't know as "they" because you have no information about their sex.
@joce11
@joce11 Год назад
@@CCL-ew7pl Exactly - the poster has totally missed your point. To me, there is no difference between using he or they pronouns as both are illogical and incorrect. Parents should be speaking biological truth, reality to their children. Using wrong sex pronouns or 'they' is not a neutral act.
@trippinggauntlet4520
@trippinggauntlet4520 Год назад
The reason I won't play the pronoun game, you can't call them "she" all day then have an issue with "her" using female spaces. Tolerance and being kind is partly what got us into this mess. I found this episode very disappointing and it's the first time I've ever switched off half way through.
@radubradu
@radubradu Год назад
Yes, the guest was talking a lot of bs, but the hosts seemes grounded as always, just very polite. And as you say, politeness got us into this shit.
@megankwisdom
@megankwisdom Год назад
Yeah Katie is always disappointing unfortunately.
@grothd09
@grothd09 Год назад
Katie wants to play both sides but definitely isn’t as cringe as Jesse…
@msaveourgirls9068
@msaveourgirls9068 Год назад
I stopped listening to Katie a while ago and decided to give her one more try because of my admiration for Stella & Sasha. Unfortunately I was as disappointed this time as in the past. Does anyone else find Katie quite condescending?
@BelissaCohen
@BelissaCohen Год назад
@@msaveourgirls9068 Ugh!
@AndyJarman
@AndyJarman Год назад
It would be interesting to see how many SOGD girls and how many SOGD boys are using non binary. I have a suspicion that it is attractive for people who want to avoid adulthood. And who can blame them?
@lorblauh
@lorblauh Год назад
I think this is a HUGE factor that rarely gets addressed. My generation (millennials) and younger seem to have a huge case of Peter Pan syndrome where they can't accept the human condition and find any amount of responsibility burdensome. A lot of the trans stuff seems like a coping mechanism to delay or pause having to take an adult role in society.
@widerlenspod
@widerlenspod Год назад
Check out Episode 42 where we talk about this exact issue! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0nQ2e2km7xE.htmlsi=7IvdYlvYJSX-Q6wL
@Gingerblaze
@Gingerblaze Год назад
@@lorblauh not surprizing considering gen z were the first where a majority of them as children spent much of their playtime in online or video gaming where one can play as any sex, any character, can regenerate at the touch of a button, etc. The player is disconnected from reality. Specifically, but not exclusively from their own and others bodies. Another difference is that gaming is a type of play that continues on, well into adulthood now, and in online gaming platforms, children and adults play and talk to each other. The infantalizing of adults has also been increasingly promoted and supported by popular culture.
@radubradu
@radubradu Год назад
The first definition of queer I could finnd: "denoting or relating to a sexual or gender identity that does not correspond to established ideas of sexuality and gender, especially heterosexual norms." What is a sexual identity? I'm a male attracted to males exclusively, a MAM, I didn't choose my sex and did not choose my attraction, I don't identify into those categories, I just am part of them. What does the word queer add to the definition of gay? The gender bs? What re those heterosexual norms? Sex with the lights off? So straight people who do cam sex are queer? Cause public sex sure isn't part of the "norms". And since anyone can idenitfy as queer, wtf does it even mean? Seems to me it just means "woke gay or straight person whose sex life is their personality". The guest glosses over how "queer" was explained to her and she just accepted the bs.
@alancoogan7029
@alancoogan7029 Год назад
I added my five cents here on the use of the word "queer." It is unacceptable to use "queer" as a synonym or substitute for "gay."
@amandawaller3479
@amandawaller3479 Год назад
50:15 "You can't craft public policy around that" Katie's being kind of ridiculous, here. Until around 2000, public policy was that men go into the male bathroom and women go into the female bathroom. It worked for all the time we've had public bathrooms. And there is no reason you cant have male bathrooms, female bathrooms and unisex bathrooms. Plus you guys conflate trans people and gnc people and they are not the same. 49:30 you can't judge if a transwoman passes by his photos. And he can always drop back into male voice and male body language to make it clear he's male.
@eoharafisher
@eoharafisher Год назад
I agree with Katie on the sense that the non-binary label implies that we who don't use that label are completely binary. That seems ridiculous, even though the "binary" categories are traditionally sexist. Pink/blue, weak/strong, likes trucks/likes dolls, likes football/likes ballet......
@Gingerblaze
@Gingerblaze Год назад
Interestingly the "pink blue binary" as it has recently been used, culturally in the west to denote sex, was the opposite historically.
@k.t.8537
@k.t.8537 8 месяцев назад
The non binary label is silly, though, as an identifier. “Woman” and “man” and “boy” and “girl” are important categories for us and are directly related to sex but removed of gender expression. A man can be however feminine or masculine as he feels is truly himself and woman can be however masculine or feminine as she wishes. You can only be “non-binary” if you accept the co-opted redefinitions of man and woman. Even then, however, I’d argue that the new definition which is propagated largely by Judith Butler and her acolytes does not make sense
@kandilula
@kandilula 11 месяцев назад
Stella's question at 13 minutes is exactly what I asked my lesbian daughter when she asked about a binder at 14yo. If you love women's bodies and breasts, why would you want to ruin your own?
@singingway
@singingway Год назад
Trans widow Ute Heggen channel points out that happiness may not be the most worthy or attainable goal, as happiness is more often a side effect of fulfilling your commitment, responsibility, service, mission, giving more yo orhers than focusing on self.
@chilo8187
@chilo8187 Год назад
Spoken like a truly unhappy person
@Clem62
@Clem62 Год назад
I imagine most of the LGB people like myself reject the term queer in any respect. I'm surprised you missed the opportunity to segue from believe the children in the satanic panic to believe the child when they say they are trans. It is confusing to me when a lesbian is attracted to a masculine woman but maybe we are talking about bisexuality. I'm gay . I am entirely turned off by any man or thing that's feminine. I don't understand the gay man who likes feminine things. I'd like to see more research into why some people are born one way or the other. Masculine or feminine. I think we've all seen the little boy who is so naturally effeminate. I want to know the brain structure, the me chanism of it. In the end of all this it comes down to, at least for me, leave children alone. Stay out of cross -sex spaces. There's nothing that can be done for the person who passes using any washroom.
@HerWanderlust
@HerWanderlust Год назад
A lesbian attracted to a masc woman is easy to understand..it’s because the woman still retains the essential quality that inspires attraction…being a woman … Not all lesbians are attracted strictly to femininity as a construct, but to women…who are all feminine by definition, though they perform femininity (the social behaviors women are socialized into) to different degrees
@alancoogan7029
@alancoogan7029 Год назад
I weighed in on "queer" and asked that they not use it as a synonym or substitute for "gay." I am a man who happens to be gay. It's deeply offensive to call me "queer." Not because it's formerly an insult word, but because the "queer" ideology is so toxic and people who call themselves queer are generally disagreeable wankers.
@chrisullman7285
@chrisullman7285 Год назад
If we take leave of biology as the one and only marker of who we are, we will have complete chaos (like now) and it’s only going to get worse, (before it collapses, hopefully). What I’m talking about is Age Identity. No one, but no one, feels their age. If I’m a 35 year old male, but ‘feel’ like I’m 17, why should I be disallowed from dating girls 2 years younger than me that are 15. Why do I need a ‘birthdate’? Isn’t it all relative?. I can hear the cries, “Why are you stigmatizing me with chronology? You’re just age-phobic!!” Or, “Do you want a healthy 17 year old boy or a dead 35 year old man?” Ladies, stop apologizing for the lunacy. I’ve treated trans since 1985 they’re saddened and shocked by the ethos of the day as I am. However, You’re doing good work.
@robertmarshall2502
@robertmarshall2502 Год назад
I think there's an argument for saying that the issue you're raising is already happening with affirmative care. "Children know who they are" "Child-led" "Children can give informed consent" Combine that with creeps like Jeffrey Marsh or "sex ed" where children are taught it's normal to speak to adults about masturbation or sexual themes plus letting males into female spaces and we are creating the breeding grounds not only for sexual predators but for their defence and blaming the victims.
@lilith3953
@lilith3953 9 месяцев назад
100%. I'm a beautiful, slender 25 year old woman trapped in the body of a short, plump 49 year old woman. When I was in my 30's and just starting to visibly age, several of the women I worked with who were around 50 said to me that the worst thing about getting older was the jarring experience they had every time they looked in the mirror and saw an ageing/middle aged face looking back at them. Now I've got there, I agree 100%
@honeychurchgipsy6
@honeychurchgipsy6 5 месяцев назад
@chrisullman7285 - that's a good point. I think that as we age physically our sense of who we are doesn't always catch up. This means that some of us will indeed feel like a 17 year old trapped in a 70 year old body. I used to look after a woman who was 104 years old and she told me she felt about 35. As I age I know what she meant; perhaps we stick at an age we were comfortable with.
@AndyJarman
@AndyJarman Год назад
It always astonishes me that any woman finds men attractive. But when a lesbian has a trans man partner on testosterone I am totally flummoxed!
@radubradu
@radubradu Год назад
I'm a gay male. I can see how women can be beautiful, but never attractive. And I can't really see how any mutilated person can be beautiful or attractive.
@BelissaCohen
@BelissaCohen Год назад
Yet KH says as a lesbian she is, or can see herself be, attracted to female impersonator Janet Mock more than to a woman impersonating a man. There is just something f-ing twisted about KH publicly proclaiming this.
@lilith3953
@lilith3953 9 месяцев назад
I briefly dated a guy who I worked with (yes, I know. Big mistake) who later "came out as a trans woman." As he began dressing as a woman and taking hormones, his body began to feminize just enough that I as a heterosexual woman lost my previous attraction to him. He was just womanly enough to not be attractive to me, but there was no way in hell that any of the lesbians at work would have found him attractive or considered him as a partner. He had made himself unattractive to everyone except possibly bisexual women(????)
@AndyJarman
@AndyJarman Год назад
Quite disturbing how the damage to the body is glossed over in this conversation. All very well when tou are young and niddle class, but as you age...
@AndyJarman
@AndyJarman Год назад
Applying a theory to one thing but not the other. Racial transitioning is not accepted, yet sexual transitioning it. Despite the same oppression dynamics (m/f b/w) applying.
@Hastur876
@Hastur876 Год назад
It's probably because black people won't stand for white people colonizing and erasing their identity, and (at least within the black community) black people have both the power to resist and the complete disinterest in being accepting. Meanwhile women (at least white women) can easily be bullied into accepting their colonization and erasure by men, because they're raised to want men to like them.
@robertmarshall2502
@robertmarshall2502 Год назад
Katie's ideas on bathrooms seem a bit confused. The issue is not if ppl choose to use the men's bathroom. Men's bathrooms basically exist because we need exclusive female spaces not because we need men's bathrooms. Plenty of men would piss in the street or use unisex cubicles with no issue. No one cares if you use men's bathrooms unless you come and stare at/use the urinals which trans identifying males and females aren't likely to do (any male who does use one will be assumed to be a cross dresser/part of some fancy dress party group). In clubs women occasionally do this in pairs at their own risk when the line is too long. I was once told straight men in gay clubs use the women's but I chose not to because it's a line most males would never cross. Those who do need calling out. It's not far off from a teacher who uses the pupil's toilets. You don't do it not because you're a threat but because some males are. If you want ppl to accept your gender as "woman" and you're male then you'll find that much easier if you understand and don't cross the boundary between sex and gender. If you want to "be" a woman you ought to understand the purpose of women's spaces as a bare minimum. I think most trans identifying males have less understanding of women than your average male frankly which is why the identify with all accoutrements/superficial elements and none of the real life experience. There's no evidence to suggest that trans identifying males are at risk in male spaces except prisons where they're generally kept separate (but that makes more sense through gender dysphoria/mental illness being more likely to be victims). The evidence shows they're more likely to be perpetrators than victims. At best they're the same as any other male in a women's bathroom. Passing is not a fool proof measure but it is at least a measure of intent to integrate. Ultimately it is like an underage drinker getting away with buying alcohol or that two underage kids have sex is not usually punished. The fact some ppl can do it and there are often no negative consequences (also a matter of debate) has little relevance to the way the law and social norms should be. Because we have to make laws around the reality that males commit more and worse crimes. It's like in sports the women's category has a clear purpose. No one cares if a non-man competes in the men's as long as they don't break other rules like performance enhancing drug use. If you let males in however you threaten the integrity of the whole sport.
@andreajones7023
@andreajones7023 Год назад
Thanks, love all 3 of you and could listen to your voices forever.
@marieparker3822
@marieparker3822 Год назад
I have read 'Sybil' in the UK. What used to be called multiple personality disorder, now called dissociative identity disorder (DID) seems to be diagnosed much less frequently in Britain than in USA.
@chilo8187
@chilo8187 Год назад
That book was a scam
@dreimalnein22
@dreimalnein22 Год назад
1:00:49 but in the long run it seems to be unlikely to result in a happier outcome to transition at all compared to acceptance of oneself and avoiding any physical problems resulting from medical interventions...
@Mudskippered
@Mudskippered Год назад
it is obvious - but the empathy is their favorite weapon....it is a 99% regret rate... sex lobotomies for kids - end times. Atheists better figure things out, quickly.
@justmy2cents652
@justmy2cents652 Год назад
Absolutely. I got the impression Katie bought in a whole lot in the gender nonsense. Why should anybody alter their body or interfere with his/her hormonal make up to match some "personality traits"?! It's just cazy.
@badgerravens408
@badgerravens408 Год назад
I can see that I'm in the minority, but this was by far the most painful guest to listen to out of all the episodes. More posturing and virtue signaling that anyone else, and overall inane and shallow. "Are you okay with 'cis'?" Dylan Mulvaney is a "she" after he got his amazing surgeries? I'm glad I listend, as I listen to every episode, to know what we are actually against...THAT level of utter mediocracy in thinking. But hey, at least she is on our side, right?
@msaveourgirls9068
@msaveourgirls9068 Год назад
You’re not totally alone! Found this episode extremely difficult to finish due to the guest.
@badgerravens408
@badgerravens408 Год назад
@@msaveourgirls9068 It is not even her opinions, as I'm totally okay with different opinions and discourse, but I can't believe this woman is 40! She sounds straight out of uni narcissist. Why is everyone fawning over her, including Sasha and Stella (from the UK, errr Ireland)? Is she considered to be a "higher tier?" Dear Stella and Sasha--she is not. You two are quality. KH nothing compared to you. Don't fall for the woke ideology.
@L_Martin
@L_Martin Год назад
I think the reason I react so strongly against using wrong-sex pronouns of people nowadays after being very much onboard with gender theory only a couple of years ago, is that I found out about AGP. That changed everything for me. I do not want to use "she/her" for a guy who is excited by me doing that. I do not want to play along with that fantasy of his, when I now feel duped because we were taught the pronouns were just being kind/compassionate, being civil to someone. Well, it turns out it's actually doing quite a bit more than that, isn't it? It's a man getting excited by it. The other part to why I now feel hair-trigger around coerced pronouns is I feel like so much trust has been broken. As I said, we were taught that this was all HSTS males, and they were a tiny number, and totally harmless. Now we see the situation with males in women's pri / zons, with women's sports, with all the laws being changed to erase sex and replace it with gender identity, and in doing so erase "female" as a protected category. Very few women signed up for that, let alone children. The social pressure and coercion put on us (women in particular) to play this little game of make-believe or else we lose our careers/friends/social circle is incredibly ugly and totalitarian. So I confess I resent it when conversation about pronouns and "Why do people have a problem with it when it's such a small thing, not a big deal?" puts my hackles up. It is a big deal because it is conceding the language, it is giving away "she/her" to the guy who committed r* or SA against a woman or child and now it's in the newspaper article referring to him as "she/her" for a cr/ ime no woman commits. Our language for ourselves if being dragged through the mud. It's like a very aggressive religion that keeps pressuring you to just go along with it and use their language, a polite pretence that you agree with their belief system, parcelled up as just being "kind" or "polite". There are consequences if you don't obey. It's not even invented new language either - it is hijacking women's language for OURSELVES while at the same time women/girl's category is being invaded in all these real-world ways. I really admire Nina Paley's approach to this, which is to just used correct-sex pronouns for the person. Is it then very weird feeling to call Buck Angel "she/her"? Yes it is, but it's either going to be weird there, or it is going to be weird when I have to apply the Buck Angel approach to everyone or else or be a hypocrite. I then have to call Katie Dolatowski or Isla Bryson "she/her" to be morally consistent. I have to talk about male athletes using "she/her". I have to use "she/her" for any man who wants me to, because of his AGP. So somewhere along the line it's going to cause my brain to feel the jarring of make-believe up against material reality. I would rather deal with the cognitive dissonance of calling Buck "she/her", than the dissonance of calling Isla Bryson "she/her" And I wish the sane trans people that exist out there like Buck or Blaire White would take the step, like Corinna Cohn so wonderfully did, of telling women in particular "This is my sex and you can use the correct language to refer to me!"
@unnamed3932
@unnamed3932 10 месяцев назад
Well said, and many LGBs agree w/ you and esp. about indoctrinating kids w/ the 'gender identity' nonsense and promoting 'transitioning.' I have been saying for a long time that the heterosexual male cross-dressers, autogynephiles/transvestic fetishists, men w/ paraphilias, have been the main ones pushing the 'trans' agenda.
@HerWanderlust
@HerWanderlust Год назад
Great conversation! Really enjoyed this perspective. On the subject of pronouns, I personally will not ever, for any reason at all, call a man any type of woman (“trans woman”) or use female pronouns for a man. I think it’s dangerous for women’s human rights (and women are being greatly harmed by the assumption of female services/spaces prisons/ etc by males). Allowing our language to be coerced in this way has led to immeasurable harm here in the US, where women in prison are being raped, we no longer have a legal right to privacy from men (I live in California and Oregon), and are even being lied to about the sex of our gynecological/obstetric providers and denigrated when we say “NO. I want a woman for this procedure.” I get around the coercion by unfailingly using peoples names-however conversationally clunky it may be. So instead of she did this and I saw her doing that “Marcia Bimbo did x and I saw Marcia Bimbo doing that”.
@widerlenspod
@widerlenspod Год назад
Thanks for your comment!
@poonamsvideoblogs
@poonamsvideoblogs Год назад
I think we need to truly embrace "uncertainty vs certainty" as well.
@bridgetteparker7719
@bridgetteparker7719 Год назад
Repressed traumatic memories in children is absolutely a real thing. I have witnessed it personally. I also think we should believe children when they report abuse. But I agree that these are all phenomenon that got blown out of proportion and abused in the past. Tangentially, I wonder whether memory repression is only found in children/people who have complex trauma or some form of neurodivergency.
@widerlenspod
@widerlenspod Год назад
While some blocking out of traumatic memories may very well be a natural response, the repressed memory scandal referred to in this episode was very extreme and of a much different scale. It had to do with impressionable people getting convinced that things happened to them that were later proven to be impossible. Highly recommend Episode 4 of Things Fell Apart by Jon Ronson.
@lilith3953
@lilith3953 Год назад
I don't think that anybody who has significant experience working with adult survivors of sexual abuse trauma would disagree with you. It is absolutely real. I had a client who had no memories at all until the age of 8, when her mother came home early and found her father in her bed raping her. He was convicted and went to prison for raping her. There was DNA evidence. She has no memory of it. I could give a lot of examples. That said, it is not difficult to create memories in children through suggestion, and people have absolutely been convicted of crimes that provably never happened because of that.
@sarah_gene
@sarah_gene Год назад
Stella, I relate to your idea being "linguistically sensitive". I think it shows up in other parts of how I use language as well... I often over clarify and I'll get confused easily when two people in a friend group have the same first name unless we figure some way to differenciate verbally. This might just be small ways that deficits in pragmatic language show up, I'm not sure.
@cmmndrblu
@cmmndrblu Год назад
I do the same thing, for exactly the same reason, because to me it's not over clarifying, it's clarifying :)
@honeychurchgipsy6
@honeychurchgipsy6 5 месяцев назад
@sarah_gene - perhaps it depends on how well you know someone, but my brother has about 8 friends with the same name as him. They differentiate by adding characteristics (not all of them exactly pc) such as angry, musical, big, small etc. As for how you differentiate casual acquaintances I'm not sure but I don't see the need for pronouns - in fact that feels rude to me - don't call me she/her please - call me the mad, short fat one instead - lol.
@weltschmerski
@weltschmerski Год назад
Would Jennifer Bilek be a voice you'd consider hearing on this podcast?
@BB-zs7oi
@BB-zs7oi Год назад
The repressed memories of the 80s was a real thing. Going to a therapist, for an eating disorder (thanks Karen Carpenter 😆) the therapist would very often ask questions about my father’s relationship with me as a child. Thank God i didn’t destroy his/our life. 😥
@honeychurchgipsy6
@honeychurchgipsy6 5 месяцев назад
a good therapist should never suggest anything - just asking questions about your relationship with your Dad is not the same as suggesting he did something bad to you. Unfortunately, there are bad therapists who do make suggestions and push clients towards stuff because they have an obsession. It's called post hoc rationalisation and it's how conspiracy theories operate; you begin with your answer and then work backwards. If you believe that all neuroses are caused by X then you will find X in all of your clients' memory banks. However, I know that human beings constantly forget and then remember things - it's how our memories work - so it is absolutely possible to bury bad memories and then have them resurface later on.
@paulondawula1011
@paulondawula1011 Год назад
Congrats on the new book!!!!
@singingway
@singingway Год назад
Since you have so much content now, could you label one video as "start here"? So we could have a beginners overview to share with newbie friends?
@widerlenspod
@widerlenspod Год назад
We have a variety of playlists that might be helpful depending on what aspect of this you want to share with friends. But having a "start here" playlist is a great idea so we'll work on that!
@uncleskipsprairiejustice9367
@uncleskipsprairiejustice9367 11 месяцев назад
No. Dylan Mulvaney does not pass.
@TheBuggeroff
@TheBuggeroff Год назад
i've been thinking for a while now that narcissism or rather "being a narcissists victim" is another "trend" to watch out for. and that it's just as tricky. i mean we do live in economic structures that seem to reward narcissists. but it still seems a bit inflationary how many psychology influencers, online coaches, etc. ONLY talk about narcissistic abuse by intimate partners or parents and how their following is seemingly exclusively made up of ppl who "identify" as victims of narcissistic abuse. it's all just anecdotal but really, the amount of suggestions of that kind of content i get.... feels weirdly "trendy".
@roleat
@roleat Год назад
Western culture is very narcissistic. It is a protective and flawed personality trait stemming from the decline of society.
@Gingerblaze
@Gingerblaze Год назад
Excellent point! Some of these psychology channels also host weird video titles like "how to manipulate your manipulative narcissist abuser, parent, boss, child etc" which also seems really unhealthy.
@Nico5890
@Nico5890 11 месяцев назад
Domestic violence expert Lundy Bancroft has a great piece about Narcissists vs. Abusers on his blog. I think it's just outstanding.
@honeychurchgipsy6
@honeychurchgipsy6 5 месяцев назад
@@Gingerblaze yes, yes, yes. I noticed that, and talking to people in the comments section I kept getting the feeling that they were the narcissist: I mean why would you want to torture someone even if they are a narcissist - they cannot help who/what they are after all. However, that doesn't mean there aren't narcissists out there or that victims need help to identify them and learn how to protect themselves. But when you hear people talking about controlling a narcissist the red flag should defo go up.
@ryr1974
@ryr1974 Год назад
one of your best episodes inm my book. great discussion with a GREAT GUEST.
@HimmelsDaemon
@HimmelsDaemon Год назад
More like better known for pandering to convenience. Some people consider the notion of a "controlled opposition," but in position where both oppositions are constructed, the supposed "center" is also therefore controlled and is invested in maintaining the construction by engaging between both pandering which are both wrong. And the problem with "preferred pronouns" which only play to second person pronouns are they are explicitly demanded and imposed and not preferred. Evidenced by both behavior as such, and that the prior behavior of focusing on a socio-cultural perception and offering reason that's a better more accurate reference is not taboo/verboten and "ista-phobic." And with that, the lazy appeasement of the new "demanded pronouns" is abusive to all parties involved and detrimental to the psychology of those declared it aids where the prior socio-cultural and gender/split concepts and acknowledgement of perception rather then inherent identity that must be imposed and other subjectivist inherentcy.
@HimmelsDaemon
@HimmelsDaemon Год назад
--- """It would be nice to see people actually start speaking up since "pronouns" are all around abusive to all parties.""" --- """ The demanded pronouns thing is abusive to/by both parties; the demand is controlling, and appeasement is not inherently good, its a form of manipulation or fallacy. Pronouns are a referential linguistic construct, not an inherent part of someone... just be who you are, and people will have their references naturally. The "preferred" and demanding pronouns has only had me seen people feel jaded and deceived and not only changed their minds back, but since the social/cultural "sex/gender split" was made taboo for entwining it completely with sex and exploiting the polite word use and corporate stereotypes they've gone with that as confirmation and hard-set to biological sex only and strictly. (And this is where you get the word games and changing definitions arbitrarily and not explaining or more precise.) """ """ A "pronouns" comment commented around elsewhere, but it's related so this is a copy/paste. ------- "Pronouns" are abusive -- "faux-kindness" in appeasing the demands of someone and they their demands should be appeased for the sake of not caring, but having authority approved, the look of, or rhetoric of "kindness." This does not help their own internal struggle, internalizing of others words, or their projection of perception. They will continue to ruminate subconsciously, then when not appeased they have an emotional 'melt-down' as their internal rumination will avalanche with it. You can see this "faux-kindness" with lots of things; people will willfully back abusers and exploiters of guidelines and "codes of conduct" (which encourage exploitation by providing unquestionable protection rather than reason and investigation), and "trust the experts/"science"." This particular exploit, I expect is fairly reliant on English... And their "was" a natural shift towards using "they" singular and dropping the reference, along with heavy usage of it as the possessive, "their/theirs." This however, is not tied to the Cathedral's intersectional/marxist theories to co-op and misrepresent things for their exploitation. ( --[redacted]-- , and the whole thing is a corporatized bureaucratic fraud making use of abusers, exploiters, and frauds to facilitate for them. Assigning such to "represent" manufactured and co-oped demographics, silencing and enslaving them.) It was not really part of, but fit better with the taboo/verboten "sex/gender split" they've stolen concepts from twist into structurally requiring its own opposition of the prior cultural marketing stereotypes and basic objective concepts. As hinted, the dropping aligned with a degree of lazyiness and spoken language, the references not being needed/useful, and the occasion want for obfuscation/neutral (particularly in literature -- "he/she" is odd and suspicious, nor good as dialog, and no one likes "it" despite being also technically correct -- having a perception of an object. ) While masculine pronouns double and neutral in English, it is quite obvious this has an issue when it is likely to be assumed the reference is conveying information as usual. Pronouns are a gendered referential linguistic construct. The common usage for this has been to reference the sex of the subject being referenced. However; anything could reasonable be referenced from sex, gender, a quality, name, aura, actions, personality, occupation, what they are, etc... A reference is not and cannot be an inherent quality of someone/something (abstract models are not "things"). Thus, no one has pronouns. (There's a interesting thing to be said of the silly "neo-pronoun" thing, but I'll leave that.) Ex. Occupation/What they are has been a thing; that is, the reference is the gender of the occupation or word to define what they are. For a forced English example, as if things like chef, teacher, painter were gendered still as other languages. Something interesting is the personification of other animals and things. It's not uncommon for people to name and refer to animals and pets without care for what sex they are -- what they look like, feel like, or just have they feel themselves. When most personify objects, you have people assigning a sex along with the personification and then referring to that. Possibly where such an object would fit their relationship structure and how they think about it. And yhea, I'm going "blah blah blah," about academic nonsense... This is the kind of thing twisted and misrepresented, which would otherwise benefit the 'normal' understanding (like the "sex/gender split") -- How to keep things and fix or remove old corporate cultural marketing or odd/weird circumstances. Also is specifically against the abusive "affirming tolerance," such is specifically understanding and has no more tolerance than inherent per the principle of "freedom of speech." Which aids in not attaching words of others to oneself. """ On the topic of "rights" and linguistic games: 1. Semantics, "[blank] rights are human rights" is the wrong order. This order implies that human rights is a collection of different rights and where they do and don't over lap (think stereotypical venn-diagram), rather than rights being universal from our humanity and how they bare differently in context. This therefore implies a right to imposition where they don't overlap. The proper and correct order would be "'human' rights are [blank] rights" validating that rights are universal from our humanity, and despite differences in how they bare they originate from a shared universal right. (think one circle encompasses all others) This semantic ploy can be taken as a tell phrase, like the word "equity" can be taken as a tell that you're dealing with. 2. A quote of that restated/explained in words rather than semantic correction. "[W]hen distinct from," There are no 'distinct from' rights, not women's or otherwise. """ There is only natural universal "human" rights, not segregated privileges. I am not particularly interested, regardless of how good or meaningful anyone is or from where or fighting from what, if they're going to continue the use of that divisive rhetoric and semantics to position it as segregated privileges. "Oh, but things of different..." No, nothing is different, any variance is still founded from the exact same right, for the same reason, and means. And the focus on solely identity of interest itself promulgates this segregation into privileges, not rights, as such they are treated and envisioned as a unique privilege for identity/group and not understanding of the right for why and universal protection. """ On Identity : """ But identification is external; a mode of observation for categorization. An identity would be ones entire collection of perceived identities; those a collection of perceived and measurable qualities. Characteristics which are not perceptible to others, but could be self categorized are not sufficient for an identity as they cannot be identified, only asserted. Similarly, asserting against perception or choice of perception for sake of speech, as most speech is referential. Hence; a complete tyrant over others. It's not that weird that it would be "subjective" but boxed into an inherent characteristic; subjective encourages to be a tyrant, but within the tyrannical authority of the "group" or owner of the group. """
@michellebolstad2711
@michellebolstad2711 Год назад
Thanks for discussing the non-binary issue! Just wondering if anyone has asked men or boys how they would feel if a girl or woman walked in while they were standing at the urinal. I’ve never heard anybody do that.
@Gingerblaze
@Gingerblaze Год назад
In many elementary schools, only mtf trans identifying children are allowed to use the girls lavatory and changerooms. Ftm students are given access to change in either the girls or a seperate staff washroom.
@BelissaCohen
@BelissaCohen Год назад
If women have to accept that there are butch lesbians in our bathrooms, and that womanhood is a broad tent, don't you think that men are required to do the same? And IDT that men have the evolutionary fight/flight/freeze response when they see a woman in their single-sex space. They might be annoyed, or have another reaction, but their inborn, inescapable sense of being in extreme personal danger would not be triggered in the same way as, say, if a huge guy walked in. Plus, men are genereally standing up and fully clothed, whereas women are often sitting down and partially disrobed and not in a position to even run, let alone defend ourselves against an evolutionarily perceived threat. So the comparison isn't the same.
@BelissaCohen
@BelissaCohen Год назад
@@Gingerblaze Yes, because of the real reality of sexual assault/rape. Not because the boys would be upset.
@joce11
@joce11 Год назад
@@BelissaCohen Exactly.
@whatevermv
@whatevermv Год назад
Thoroughly enjoyed the conversation, but I think settling with moral inconsistencies as a position and not striving for a solution is the precise way we got here. Trans activists have capitalised on the grey space and the nuance to the point where now we cannot make distinctions any longer, because each nuance gives credence to their worldview, and now women can't even be called women. Even if something has nuance, there still must be a way to make peace, and one moral value must be chosen over the other. Especially in public policy. They can't both be held in equal regard. I think a government that twiddles their thumbs and decides on a middle road would be a highly ineffective one. The purpose of public policy is not to make everyone happy, it's to prioritise the most cohesion and safety possible. The sacrifices that happen in the name of safety will be far fewer in number than if nothing was done at all.
@miroirs-jumeaux
@miroirs-jumeaux Год назад
What was "ridiculous" 20 years ago is still ridiculous. Also, I feel let-down by people like Herzog who continue to use the "Kinsey scale"… the fact that Kinsey was a mild cholester was known when I was a pre-gay child, and somehow escaped my awareness even as I learned to understand my sexuality based at least partly on his "work."
@BelissaCohen
@BelissaCohen Год назад
I agree. I am very let down by her half-assed analysis and breezy acceptance of total nonsense. So many issues with this interview.
@chilo8187
@chilo8187 Год назад
Where is the evidence that Kinsey was a child molestor?
@badgerravens408
@badgerravens408 Год назад
@@BelissaCohen I was appalled as well. I have a very long list of issues. It was unbearable that Sasha and Stella were just letting this happen.
@badgerravens408
@badgerravens408 Год назад
I couldn't believe she was still using the term, and not once, but twice in the interview, as some kind of a badge of honour. At 40 you might expect someone to outgrow labels, ESPECIALLY when they are attached to something so vile and evil.
@poonamsvideoblogs
@poonamsvideoblogs Год назад
Are we going to use the Kinsey scale? Isn't Kinsey's scale built on some very dubious data? At 18minutes.
@badgerravens408
@badgerravens408 Год назад
I couldn't believe she used the term, knowing about Kinsey and his "data." If she knows, shame on her. If she doesn't know, shame on her. "Very dubious" is an understatemen!
@Kayla-mf9se
@Kayla-mf9se 2 месяца назад
I live in North Carolina and I'm at a loss to find any support for me or my gender non-conforming teen and their peer group. Any tips?
@irisElee
@irisElee Год назад
In the US, dogs are neutered after six MONTHS of age, not six - eight weeks.
@badgerravens408
@badgerravens408 Год назад
This journalist doesn't seem to fact check.
@honeychurchgipsy6
@honeychurchgipsy6 5 месяцев назад
@@badgerravens408 - maybe she just misspoke? Since we don't generally take a puppy away from its mother until 8 or 10 weeks the decision wouldn't need to be made would it?
@Ian-tp2vx
@Ian-tp2vx 3 дня назад
18:40 This pretty much contradicts the argument being made of sexual orientation not being about sex. Katie Not being attracted to a trans guy or masculinity is a matter of having a type. Just because one is attracted to only one sex does not mean they are attracted to ALL of that sex class.
@strawberryseason
@strawberryseason 10 дней назад
Regarding people's memories, many people have poor memories for events that happened prior to age 4. I am a researcher of corporal punishment of children. We know from family sociology research that the most prolific time frame of parental "spanking" of children happens in the child's age range of 2-4 years. I can't tell you how many people have told me "I was only spanked once." They remember an event that happened in their early childhood years, maybe 6 or 7 years old. Yet we know from various studies that involve parental log-keeping, that it's not uncommon for parents to swat or spank their children a few to several times per week in those toddler years. I would not call these memories "buried," it's just that memories in those years are not as accessible.
@pauladewhurst9604
@pauladewhurst9604 Год назад
Flora Rheta Schreiber wrote Sybil
@towpottsfam7631
@towpottsfam7631 11 месяцев назад
Re pronouns. Maybe theres an asd element as well as contrarian element when oeople struggle with pronouns... if every fibre of your being knows the oerson is biologically and m8stly male bt asks you to say she her... it feels like lying .. i dont like lying...making me lie is offensive
@AndyJarman
@AndyJarman Год назад
It's the politicisation of a very personal issue that really causes problems. In Australia we have mandatory disabled toilets. With so many older buildungs in the UK disabled toilets are sometimes not possible. A cafe in south London attempted to comply with popular culture and put a male symbol next to the female symbol on the women's toilet. The restaurant was taken to court for disadvantaging women. The plaintiff withdrew the case when it became clear they were unlikely to achieve satisfaction. The defendant (the cafe owner) was not awarded costs meaning while it had not beoken any rules, and while the sign was erwtcted as an attempt to accomodate trans women they would inevitably be out of pocket due to kegal fees no matter ehat their signing of the toilet!
@maryannebrown2385
@maryannebrown2385 Год назад
Well, that cafe owner was wrong to put up that sign. Men who dress as women are still men. Women do not want men in their toilets. For such obvious reasons I am not going to go into. Those men need to use the men’s toilets. It is not up to women to accommodate cross-dressing men.
@robertmarshall2502
@robertmarshall2502 Год назад
I wonder whether the "born this way" LGB ideas about sexuality has inadvertently leaked into an supported gender identities. Everything I've read suggests we aren't innately heterosexual/homosexual/bisexual and the conversation about female sexuality adds credence to this. I think many ppl are uncomfortable with this in the same way ppl seem uncomfortable with the reality that males are more dangerous/likely to commit crime or inflict violence. Ppl like to tell themselves little falsehoods to make life simpler. It's a tricky tightrope line to walk but I think the difference between, I can't control who I'm sexually attracted to and, I was born gay/straight/bi is an important one. It allows children to grow up and explore their sexuality in a much healthier way (ie not define it age 11 or jump into sexual relationships far too early and wait for attraction to naturally develop). It also cuts off the idea that ppl are born trans which us clearly false as it is a social identity formed within societies. Which means kids get to shape their identity over time and don't have to pin their flag to mast straight away. I think this "I always knew" idea is inherently negative. You didn't know how to tie your shoelaces so how did you know anything about sex or gender
@BelissaCohen
@BelissaCohen Год назад
Yes, that part of the discussion was really interesting--that sexual orientation is a male paradigm. Twin studies have shown that sexual orientation isn't in the DNA--twins with identical DNA don't always have the same sexual orientation. That doesn't mean people don't EXPERIENCE their orientation as innate. I was hoping that it would be discovered how sexual orientation is developed in my lifetime, but in the current climate I don't think it will be.
@eagle162
@eagle162 6 месяцев назад
No it is, people have studied the brains of hetero, gay and bi people, and found differences in all of them, as well as even cognitive function and differences in reaction to hormones in sweats, it is definitely a born this way / brain thing. Gender dysphoria is a mental disorder. People just don't want to say it isn't. There are inherent differences between genders as well.
@eagle162
@eagle162 6 месяцев назад
​@@BelissaCohenit's not that's just how it's always been, studies on women's different sexual orientation show us clear differences between if they are straight, gay or bi just like men. Identical twins don't mean 100% the same including if they have the same orientation or not.
@eagle162
@eagle162 6 месяцев назад
It is definitely a born this way or Brain thing, studies have found differences between hetero, gay or bi people brain, as well as even cognitive function or in reaction to hormones in sweat. Studies on female sexuality with more advancements techniques instead of traditional ones have found differences just like with men. People know men are inherently more likely to commit crimes and are more aggressive that's always been known that's never been a debate.
@eagle162
@eagle162 6 месяцев назад
Actual trans or gender dysphoria occurs because something is going on with the brain, go check out the person Buck Angel for more information.
@blumenkraft2275
@blumenkraft2275 Год назад
Very interesting conversation. Thank you so much for sharing this with the public.
@llkoolbean4935
@llkoolbean4935 Год назад
Informed consent and stop medicalization of children
@DonnaBrooks
@DonnaBrooks 4 месяца назад
In arguing over the medicalization of gender non-conforming & ROGD children, I have often pointed to causes PROGRESSIVES once championed, like eugenics, & medical practices that were once celebrated, like lobotomies, along with practices like bloodletting, scandals like thalidomide babies, etc. It never occurred to me to include children with Down's Syndrome who were institutionalized because medical professionals told the parents it was best for them to spend their lives in an institution, so I will have to add that to my examples.
@UteHeggenTranswidowHeals
@UteHeggenTranswidowHeals Год назад
Herzog's use of captured language is actually confusing. I challenge her to talk about women without using the word "cis." Apparently offending women born before 1970 isn't important.
@eemoogee160
@eemoogee160 Год назад
It isn't easy to please everyone
@badgerravens408
@badgerravens408 Год назад
It was infuriating, painful to listen to. Captured language througout.
@UteHeggenTranswidowHeals
@UteHeggenTranswidowHeals Год назад
Thanks, Hanna. Katie Herzog is treading that knife edge of "being kind" while not being realistic about the harms the sex modification ideology causes to all of the rest of society. The most recent demonstration of this is the discussion between Norwegian detransitioner, Alexander L and British detransitioner Ritchie Herron on Alexander L RU-vid channel. They discuss how it does not work to take testosterone to replace what castration did to their bodies. Why? Because the penile material, now inserted as a tube internally in the groin area (so called vaginoplasty) will react the way the penis did, which is to stiffen as for an erection. Except it's now internal. They both have problems walking, hiking, urinating and they will deal with this for the rest of their lives, which might be shortened because of the iatrogenic harm. Katie Herzog needs new glasses, and perhaps, hearing aids. But then, she's a captured journalist, just like Jesse Singal, claiming to be "objective." Never reporting on the suicides of trans widows, the attempted suicides of the children of men who now say they are 'mother" also, or recognizing the huge lost time to actual academics in schools from early childhood through high school. Get real. Really.@@badgerravens408
@arryospeedwagon
@arryospeedwagon 7 месяцев назад
Agreed. I really like Katie and enjoy her Blocked and Reported podcast, but the one thing that really irks me is her and her co-host Jesse Singal are pretty married to the usage of preferred pronouns, especially the "they/them" one when they're uncertain of the preferred pronoun but they do know the sex.
@UteHeggenTranswidowHeals
@UteHeggenTranswidowHeals 7 месяцев назад
Raw but calm honesty is the best path. Think about the woman, so overweight she didn't know she was at the end of a pregnancy, taking the T because she thinks that stuff, and the hospitcal staff obeyed "pronouns" so they lost the baby. A baby died. It might have already had a damaged heart from the T in utero. Think, everyone. @@arryospeedwagon
@cgpcgp3239
@cgpcgp3239 11 месяцев назад
Sybil didn’t go the psychiatrist because she thought she multiple personalities. It was all driven by the psychiatrist. At one point Sybil denied having multiple personalities. Her psychiatrist cut Sybil out of life. Sybil was so emotionally dependent on the psychiatrist she recanted. The rash of sex abuse allegations was a result of anxiety of white parents sending their children including enfants to daycare because white women were entering the workforce in droves. It was a social contagion. Unwittingly aided by police, child welfare agencies, psych professionals, media, parents, public. It wrecked lives. As far as I know it didn’t spread to black communities. Black mother had long been working outside the home.
@psantini2968
@psantini2968 Год назад
I think the satanic panic did have legal consequences for people in the UK - if memory serves, there were big cases in West Yorkshire and in the Orkneys. I am not aware of any cases in Ireland.
@Hastur876
@Hastur876 Год назад
Isle of Lewis, 2003. A lot of people charged, one committed suicide while waiting for trial, case completely dropped later, and as it turns out it all happened because Child Services workers went to a SRA presentation by an American fundamentalist preacher.
@singingway
@singingway Год назад
You should interview Ute Heggen. She is collecting statistics through surveys of spouses whose partners transitioned.
@juvenalsdad4175
@juvenalsdad4175 Год назад
Thanks for the wide-ranging conversation. Lots to think about there, and I think Ms. Herzog's take is very interesting. It might take some work to figure out why I disagree with a lot that she says. Maybe later, as right now Sasha has reminded me that I need to go outdoors and get some exercise.
@badgerravens408
@badgerravens408 Год назад
Don't dig too deep--you disagree, because she is catering to the woke ideology and thus engages in doublethink. Enjoy the outside!
@juvenalsdad4175
@juvenalsdad4175 Год назад
@@badgerravens408 That would also be my intuitive response. However, having read Jonathan Haidt's 'The Righteous Mind', I am more inclined to do the digging anyway. It's also good exercise, if one employs good technique.
@badgerravens408
@badgerravens408 Год назад
@@juvenalsdad4175 I haven't read this book yet, it is on my list. I do agree--digging can be fun.
@John-tr5hn
@John-tr5hn Год назад
Spaying and neutering dogs and cats has nothing to do with their health, and no one ever claimed it did. It's to lower the population of feral animals, which then have to be euthanized. Overpopulation is much much worse for millions more animals than slight discomfort and lower life expectancy for a few pets. Cats especially need to be fixed, as many people have indoor/outdoor cats that they can't control and which kill millions of birds each year.
@goodolarchie
@goodolarchie 10 месяцев назад
Before she met her wife I considered transitioning to date Katie. Say it with me: Trans Women are Women Attracted to Katie Herzog.
@pauladewhurst9604
@pauladewhurst9604 Год назад
What's the difference between repressed memory and PTSD? Men get PTSD
@MensahAcademics
@MensahAcademics 3 дня назад
I am finding the way in which repressed memory, D.I.D. and satanic ritual abuse was so easily dismissed in this discussion quite disturbing considering other guests that have given insight on agendas that operate in the shadows. I have a friend in social services here in the .U.K. who speaks volumes on its existence and the threats to her life that she experienced for merely doing her job regarding child safety and paedophile rings. So considering the experience of the hosts, I can come to only one of two conclusions... Either they are deeply naive or being deeply disingenuous.
@miroirs-jumeaux
@miroirs-jumeaux Год назад
Herzog on bathrooms ~ fingers crossed that no creepy dudes "pass" …?
@Mudskippered
@Mudskippered Год назад
Operation mockingbird - it is mind control.
@angelique8089
@angelique8089 11 месяцев назад
Dylan mulvaney will always look like a man to me
@QManagerin
@QManagerin 2 месяца назад
Sorry, but in what universe does Dylan Mulvaney pass? I can see Blair and Buck- at least through the screen passing. But Dylan? Give me a break!
@HebaruSan
@HebaruSan 7 месяцев назад
"Tactical error" makes it sound like we'll use sex-inaccurate pronouns for the time being until we win. But how could we ever jettison the concession that sex-accurate pronouns can be "rude", if we've been reinforcing it all along?
@colinellicott9737
@colinellicott9737 Год назад
I have taken in many perspectives of this trans issue over the last year, and have come to some of my conclusions: I condone adult’s freedoms within law. However, I refuse to be blackmailed into what to say, I refuse to be pressured into what words I can and cannot use, and I refuse to condone someone's delusion. Human sex is binary, and fixed, despite preference or presentation.
@uncleskipsprairiejustice9367
@uncleskipsprairiejustice9367 11 месяцев назад
Stella, there was NEVER a time in the history of the pandemic in which we "knew nothing". Recommendations changed as science made new discoveries and new analyses. That's normal and should not show science or public health in a bad light. We are human and we make mistakes. The main reason, for instance, that masks were downplayed at first, was because if their unavailability, not their inefficacy. Many nations in East Asia immediately began using masks and had infection, hospitalization and mortality rates that were a fraction of those in the US. They also had shelter orders. Both were effective, even with all their drawbacks. Inconsistency in science and public health practice with a novel virus is the expectation, not an aberration. Why blame them for popular misconceptions?
@cmmndrblu
@cmmndrblu Год назад
I deeply appreciate these conversations because we need to have them. I very much disagree with Katie on it being both sex and gender for everyone, because it isn't. I'm perfectly fine with the fact that for some people "gender" (quotation marks because the word is polysemous not my sarcasm) is a component of their sexuality, but mine is very very much just homosexual. And I think there's something about people not feeling comfortable with their bisexuality and preferring to round it up that then means they think that's the same for everyone, and it really is not. I am a male, I'm not sexually attracted to every male, but I am sexually attracted to 0 females, regardless of what they look like. Can I accept it's a mix for other people? sure. But the words homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual refer to sex, and if we need to add more words, bring them in. But I'm not ever going to pretend that "gender" has anything to do with my sexuality because it doesn't.
@TheBuggeroff
@TheBuggeroff Год назад
lol, i guess there is healty and unhealty social contagions.
@poonamsvideoblogs
@poonamsvideoblogs Год назад
Sybyl was written by. Flora Rheta Schreiber.
@jennyrothkopf8347
@jennyrothkopf8347 11 месяцев назад
Temple Grandin’s mom was advised to institutionalize her when she was young. Thankfully, her mother was one of her staunchest allies, and encouraged her to instead pursue education.
@ridleyroid9060
@ridleyroid9060 11 месяцев назад
I'm a guy who wouldn't really date masculine or even the kind of effeminite men that still clearly look like men. But I wouldn't mind dating trans-women or hyper feminine boys that could pass for masculine women. Granted, I am also a lonely looser who couldn't get a date with any of the aforementioned so idk. how useful that is really.
@radubradu
@radubradu Год назад
Stella starts off really smiley and then as the bs is laid a bit thick by the guest, her beautiful smile gradually vanishes.
@badgerravens408
@badgerravens408 Год назад
oh really? GREAT! I listened to the audio while driving and I couldn't believe Stella was taking this BS! It was painful to listen to. I felt very slightly vindicated when Stella corrected her about Ireland. I wish she said something about "cis", but I wonder if both Sasha and Stella were taken aback. Katie Herzog at 40 sounds like a narcissistic 20 year old compared to Stella, who is so wise and insightful.
@pb4life597
@pb4life597 Год назад
My Queen is so right about ze/zir > they/them. It is so confusing, especially in news articles.
@FiredUpFeminist
@FiredUpFeminist 2 месяца назад
Unlike Katie Herzog, I never use pronouns that don’t match a person’s biology. And if a speaker mentions his pronouns, I instantly recognize he’s not a serious person and lose all interest in what he’s saying.
@JohnWilmot1179
@JohnWilmot1179 Год назад
"Dylan Mulvaney looks like a woman" and of course we could "respect" "Xe / Xem / Xir" pronouns.... Yhis woman is not a serious person.
@badgerravens408
@badgerravens408 Год назад
her using the term "respect" with pronouns was infuriating. Use preferred pronouns, if you want or have to, but when she says she "respects" them, it is jus another level of woke indoctrination.
@heatherchapman1984
@heatherchapman1984 Год назад
Bathrooms are difficult. I think the rough majority of times, what ya' don't know won't hurt ya'. Trouble is, there are greater numbers of unfortunate people who may think they are fooling everyone while using the opposite sex facilities, when they most definitely are not. In may be that we're in for a rough couple of decades until either multi-stall bathrooms go the way of the buggy whip, or culture shifts to desensitize everyone to having no privacy or personal boundaries to speak of.
@AM1media
@AM1media 8 месяцев назад
People have become conspiracy observers.
@kyoglesage
@kyoglesage Год назад
A lesson for me repeated here (sigh) - how many times do I need to be reminded of this?) … that just because you find someone rational and well-informed in one area does *not* mean their views are necessarily also rational and well-informed in another. Couldn’t help how far my eyebrows shot up when I heard the old ‘well, of course, we got things wrong during Covid … vaccines’ canard trotted out. 🤨 Dammit, ladies.
@nogorman560
@nogorman560 Год назад
good interview
@towpottsfam7631
@towpottsfam7631 11 месяцев назад
It comes down to instinct. I easily call blaire and dylan and shspe shifter she her whether they want me to or not its instinct
@irenalovesart4064
@irenalovesart4064 Год назад
Also, men mature later so dating young men as a young woman ... nice when they hit 30+ at least in my gen x era
@bee-eu6cg
@bee-eu6cg Год назад
Men never mature!!!!😂
@jeng3609
@jeng3609 Год назад
Wow, awesome conversation ❤
@maanvis81
@maanvis81 Год назад
Wow, Katie sure talks 90 minutes in an hour! Really captivating :)
@bilong92
@bilong92 Год назад
Comment for thé algorithme
@twatmunro
@twatmunro 11 месяцев назад
So Katie's saying that there were lots of FTM Transmen on the lesbian scene and they were generally accepted. Were there also a lot of MTF Transwomen who identified as lesbian about and were they also accepted?
@melb915
@melb915 11 месяцев назад
Katie ❤ Cutie...
@shadow.banned
@shadow.banned Год назад
Nothing wrong with rejecting to "vaccinate" your healthy child with new experimental drugs.
@kyoglesage
@kyoglesage Год назад
Covid drugs weren’t experimental. They were part of a technology that had been worked on for some years and needed little alteration to be used as an effective prophylactic against a disease that killed some people quickly and has left thousands with chronic disease. All medical treatments carry risk. Aspirin, for example, used frequently by millions of people can cause havoc with the lining of the stomach. The risk from Covid significantly outweighs the risk of vaccination. The data showed - and continue to show - this unequivocally.
@nothingreally1234
@nothingreally1234 Год назад
Such an engaging episode
@ruthhorowitz7625
@ruthhorowitz7625 Год назад
Totally agree about pronouns. So confusing. I wish we could just get rid of pronouns completely.
@AndyJarman
@AndyJarman Год назад
I've just raised my first puppy, always had rescues. He's a very well endowed boy. It's been alarming how many (particularly menopausal) women are disturbed and concerned that I haven't castrated him. My mind always drifts towards pindering what their marriages are like! I'm very protective of George the labrador's crown jewels!!
@kyoglesage
@kyoglesage Год назад
If you raise rescues you ought to be aware of the importance of neutering - slowing down the number of dogs needing rescue! Not once, as a menopausal woman, was I disturbed by a dog’s intact junk except to think how lax and irresponsible its owner was. I assume your post was a joke; it certainly read like one.
@JerryTheother
@JerryTheother 11 месяцев назад
Elephant in the room...CIRCUMCISION! I think misandry causes us to not see it. There are laws preventing cat declawing, while circumcision - deskinning- is OK. We care about animals more than baby boys.
@lilith3953
@lilith3953 9 месяцев назад
I don't think it's about misandry (which is a nonsense concept anyway). I think it's about sensitivities due to it being a Jewish cultural practice (if you don't get a Moyal to circumcise your child, then they're not really Jewish. It's religious lore), and people not wanting to do anything that infringes on Jewish people's ability to practice their religion because of the holocaust. It should also be said that female circumcision is very very much objectively worse then male circumcision. And the people who practice female circumcision are African and Muslim, and western society is racist and Islamophobic and has no problem criticizing and legislating against their cultural practices. So, to me it looks a lot like Islamophobia, racism, and sensitivites around Judaism due to the holocaust then "misandry". Also, misogyny = women being raped, murdered, deprived of education, paid less, passed over for promotion, and discriminated against due to their sex. Misandry = men's fee fee's being hurt by women objecting to all the above, so excuse me if I don't give a rat's a** about your misandry problem.
@miroirs-jumeaux
@miroirs-jumeaux Год назад
Can any Katie Herzog fans help me with names of other people with similar positions on the questions she's addressed here?
Далее
EP 133: Is Trans REALLY the New Gay?
1:02:47
Просмотров 7 тыс.