Ep. 24 - Room Treatments Part 4 of 4. Place Acoustic Panels for Maximum Focus and Spaciousness! 

Thanks for the feedback man I definitely appreciate it!

Thanks!

Thanks! You must not have seen the first few I did.. 😜

Thanks!

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Happy to help!

Thanks Paul and really happy you found it useful!

Thanks Robert!!

Thanks. It's awesome when you hear your system sound vastly better using something so simple.

@@hometheatergurus 👍 for $150 and a little time I have a night and day difference. No amount of tweaking would have got me where I am today without these 9 panels. I didnt do any bass traps, and I’m thinkin I don’t need to. I had a huge null in my room and now it’s nearly gone. Keep up the good work 😊

Do you mean installing acoustics covered in fabric directly on the wall so your left with fabric walls as seen in my theater walk through?

@@hometheatergurus, thanks for the reply! I'm talking about acoustical transparent fabric panels *over* the walls so that when you are in your home theater, you don't see acoustical wall treatment (absorbers, diffusers, deflectors) nor any speakers. Here's a link to an example: www.mycinematech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/DDR2948_Elliston-Systems_Napper-Theater_View01.jpg

Thanks!

You'll soon know how to design your own and yes you'll be good at it when we're done.. 😉

You're welcome 🙂

Thank you. It's definitely more to the point!

Thanks. I've already shown and demonstrated with REW why we need multiple subs but it kinda gets lost in those longer videos so yeah I'll probably do one just on that down the road. I also talked about bass arrays, I think it was in the room mode video.

Home Theater Gurus My bad, I diddnt watch every video yet. But I’m going to 💪

Thanks. I don't have a build thread on the subs. The Marty subs are great as they're just a ported sub and basically what anyone modeling a um18 ported would come up with in 5 minutes looking for the size to performance sweet spot. If you have the room it's a good option. However I'll be modeling with a slightly different goal of something that fits in a living room that isn't the size of a coffin but still performs way above it's cost but just doesn't go as low as a full marty which frankly is more than most need but as it's a hobby will all have different goals.

Thanks Shawn!

Just make make sure all the drivers producing anything 200 hz and up is covered at the reflection points. As for rhe rear wall you don't have to go horizontally but it does allow you to use less panels as it covers 8' of width using 2 standard panels.

Thank you very much for your sound advice. Looking forward to your next episodes. Wishing you a Merry Christmas!

@@peterchang425 Thanks Peter! Hope you have a Merry Christmas too!

I really discuss bass traps and why we usually don't really need them in the episode on room modes. Even 1' thick on the rear wall isn't going to tame large subwoofer range waves. But above that it can help a lot in the modal area. You can definitively do the front wall too if you have a false wall. But honestly having a baffle wall would be a better option which is why you see professionally designed rooms with baffle walls. We will be covering that soon.

@@hometheatergurus Thanks must admit that I Skip must of that episode (: Again I am a stereo guy and don't have a array of aligned subwoofers so my main speakers are full range. And I think that bass traps could help me with long RT60 time. But this was a great episode. Thanks again. You talked about moving? are you going to have room for a new home Theater?

@@MartinHAndersen I'm kind of back and forth. I'll definitely have a living room (7.1.4) and master bedroom system (5.1.4) but not sure about a dedicated space.

You can measure the changes but you wouldn't use measurements to treat a room. You'd use the info In the video. You can use impulse if you have a very irregular room and some furniture or something is causing a nasty reflection and you want to find it using time.

Thanks Sam! If you have a lack of reflection at say the ipsilateral where we normally would use a combo panel you need to worry about balance. So the lack of reflection there means the opposite wall needs absorbtion at that point. Open side walls are explained in the video but that's the gist of it.

@@hometheatergurus thanks for the response! I would imagine the stairs create a bit of diffusion, so should I use a combo panel on the opposite wall? Or stick to absorption only

@@sampoquette2557 use a mirror and see if it completely blocks the reflection. As for diffusion they're probably 7" tall risers so won't really diffuse expect lower frequencies where we don't want diffusion.

@@hometheatergurus gotcha! I checked with the mirror last night and couldn't see any reflections. So I'll stick with absorption only on the other wall. Thanks again!! (I have a feeling I'll be contacting you for a professional consult in the future!)

Thanks. I have links in the description for different panels options. Absorption is pretty easy to diy which I do cover some in this video.

GIK is trying to make an sale. The most important think for bass is proper seating and sub placement. Bass traps are just a tool and don't fix issues. There are ways to fix and avoid the issues with placement. If you have wasted space like false walls yes you should use them as bass traps. Let no good space go to waste.

@@hometheatergurus I have a dedicated room, 18x14x8, with two rows of seating. They're advising me to put the bass traps in all corners and along the back wall.

It doesn't quite work that way. Take a quiet scene with vocals that's all that's mixed so that all that's played back. The combo panels aren't adding distortion or noise. They're simply placed to widen and extend the sound stage. The room is still very relaxing with a very low noise floor and every detail has extreme clarity but we haven't killed the spaciousness by absorbing everything. Now I personally do usually absorb the center channel ipsilateral as I prefer maximize focus there. No professional designer with current training uses all absorption anymore and hasn't for over a decade if not 2 decades.

Thanks! You want to balance the sound so if you have combo on one side you need it on both. With curtains you can place absorbtion behind the curtains and treat the opposite side with absorption too. Combo doesn't work well behind curtains because curtains especially heavy ones will absorb the upper frequencies.

Home Theater Gurus thank you again for your guidance!

One more question if I may... what about bass traps? How would you go about placing them? Not sure if this was covered in this series or in any of your other videos?

And for a bit more context, I have 3 subwoofers placed quarter distance from the wall boundaries of the room at the moment. Working on getting a 4th sub in sometime soon. With 4 subs, do I still need bass traps and if so, do they go on all 4 corners floor to ceiling?

Thanks. You need software to do that. I do room/design layouts so if you need help you can email me at elitehomecinema.sales@gmail.com for info.

All of the room plans I've done are well designed and not one has all combo. Some reflections need to be absorbed.

Thanks. It's covered in the episodes on treatment but yes a combo or combination panel does both difusion and absorption.

Just to add, just saw your channel and been going through your videos so might not have understood everything yet

Thanks! Thin curtains are fine over combo panels. Theyll knock off some highs but the panels will still be effective.

Just confirming that you meant combo panels on the glass , behind thin curtains would be effective even with curtains drawn ? All the best with your move ,man ! Really appreciate you taking the time to educate us , despite the pressures you may be having . Thanks

@@sabukumar3069 thanks. And yes combo panels will work behind thin curtains so you understood correctly.

Some of their reflections you'll want absorption, some you'll want a combo or nothing. The videos will walk you through it.

@@hometheatergurus The videos?

Don't use foam on the side and back wall. Use acoustic mineral/rockwool.

@@C--A thank you, I appreciate the info.

Klipsch rc62

I cover this in the series but you'd use a mirror. When I do plans I find them with ray tracing.

If an issue you could wrap it with 1" flexible ductliner. You can get it at your local hvac shop. They may just give you a scap price as you wouldn't need much m. Then cover with fabric. Making it look good is what will be hard.

It would be better than nothing. You can buy acoustic curtains which are thick heavy curtains that can go behind regular curtains to help. But they're really basically thick moving blankets which many diyers use. The more folds in the curtains the better. Now again this is not going to compete with proper panels but I understand we have to work with what we've got and that solution above will help a ton.

You could. Why is it impractical? Is the rear wall too far away?

@@hometheatergurus it's about 8 feet back, but it's a bar. Shelves and cabinets, and things that rattle when the bass hits ;) Need to get some rubber mats on those shelves...

Also - thanks for all of the effort you have put in on this channel - thanks! Keep me coming!

@@flynna123 Thanks! As for finding reflection points I discuss it in the video. Yes a mirror works but make sure to watch the video as there are thinks to pay attention to.

Well crap I had been watching it pretty intently. Got up to let the dog out and to grab something to drink and didn’t pause it... I must have missed it! Thanks!

@@flynna123 haha... Sounds like something I'd do.. :)

Ep 11 is on room mode calculations. But yeah you're on the right path. Usually 1/4s for subs and put the bass traps in corners.

@@hometheatergurus I just finished watching that one. I knew the answer was here somewhere. I've watched your series at least 3 times over the years. Lol thanks.

Yes, most of the vocals are coming from the woofers.

They need to be controlling both tweeter and woofer reflections especially in 2 ways. The vocals are mostly in the woofers of most 2 ways.

@@hometheatergurus i used the mirror reflection test and clearly my panels are 1-2 feet higher than the height of front L/R speakers. By the way ... for proper placement of the panels, does that mirror reflection test work or is there a certain measurement from speakers that you go by? Thanks.

When seated the height of the mirror points will be down as low as the seating area. Mark the tweeter and woofer reflections and center the panel on the point between the two drivers reflections. If your panels are above the speakers they are just reducing room decay Not cleaning up the direct speaker reflections. Look at the video thumbnail for an example.

It would be better than nothing but straight diffusion behind then seats may or may not even clean up the vocals and they also need a little room to really disperse/diffuse well. The absorbtion on the rear wall is for clarity and to help with rear wall sbir if the absorption is thick enough. I personally wouldn't use difusion directly behind the seating area.

@@hometheatergurus Ok thanks!

The video actually covers that exact scenario.

@hometheatergurus I've watched all 4 of the videos multiple times and in particular the one where you spoke on 2 scenarios where you should absorb - 1) bad off axis speakers and 2) open wall on one side but it wasn't clear on the possibility of using combo panels as well for open wall with good off axis. Anyhow, I went ahead and added 4 alternating panels along the wall absorber/combo/absorber/combo. I figured I could absorb the vocals while creating some spaciousness to create some acoustic symmetry. Love and appreciate your videos Steven no one else has the content library on home theater like you do. You way of teaching with the use of visuals are super helpful as well. Thank you.

Yeah you'd absorb as you have no reflection on the open side. Glad you're finding the channel useful!

Well yeah that is one part of it covered in the video but you need to Know what goes where and why.

Klipsch rc62

Personally......... I never cared for them outside of their Heritage series 😉* Right now I'm working on treating my (Stereophonic Parlor of Bliss) two channel listening space and am wondering were to place a cloud. Would I use the same mirror trick ? @@hometheatergurus

@@2DangeRuss4u agreed. The newer rp line however is good. Rf7 is good as well.

Shoot me an email. My contact info is in the video descriptions. I have diy panel plans that come with my deisgn service.

That's covered in ep 23. Diffusion and combo

I discuss this exact placement around 3/4 into the video.

@@hometheatergurus lol yeah.. how i missed that.. i think i just skipped the exact part i wanted to hear! thanks!

@@jimgeroul I can't say much I'm the world's worst at doing that. 😂

@@hometheatergurus i dint even know this SBIR existed.. i'm reading on it and waiting for your video! great vid as always!

@@jimgeroul here's a great article on it arqen.com/acoustics-101/speaker-placement-boundary-interference/

There are some brands that have decent foam but they're expensive. Compare the specs as we cover in part 2 of the acoustic series.

Can I send you a pic of my living room? Lol

@@pb24dagrk yours use the front wall to reflect back into the room. You definitely don't want to absorb the front wall as it's part of the speakers design.

@@hometheatergurus so should I not worry? One side of my living room is open concept to the kitchen, while the other is a big window with faux wood blinds. My back wall is 4 feet behind my couch.

@@pb24dagrk the video is about treating in room reflections of side walls and the rear wall not the front wall so everything in the video will pertain to you. You just need to be aware of where the extra reflection you have hits the side walls.

I wanted to shoot some this weekend but couldn't. We just moved and we're temporarily in a camper while we build the next house. We're still organizing from the move and culling through stuff in storage. Getting rid of stuff we don't need etc. The area I'll be filming in is almost cleaned out so I definitely expect to be filming this weekend. I'm definitely ready for it as I actually enjoy making them which I originally didn't think I would.

Home Theater Gurus ultimate opportunity to cover all the new build details, floor, walls, stage construction, riser construction etc etc