Ep 287: Dr. Jagman Gurung | Kirat History, Newars, Monarchy | Sushant Pradhan Podcast 

Agree ❤

Totally agree 👍

Wad historic events did he said true.

He is baun not gurung totally misinformation

90% wrong information.

Bro dangol lai bhumi putra bhanera makkha bhako jasto xha

0:50

😂😂😂😂😂😂टपरे को झोले हो केही थाहा छैन ! चन्दने हो गुरुङ भन्दानि😁😁😁

@@YonjanRajatai bhotay le mannay Buddha ne Hindu nai thyo ne 😅

He explain totally wrong about Sur and Asur. He just explains according to sankrit language but we have to go beyond sanskrit language to Pali Prakrit language. Listen to Linguist Rajendra Prashad Singh. According to him, ashu means means pragya/knowledge in Pali Prakrit language. Ashur means Pragyani/ Knowledgeable person.

​@@NiranjanMalakar bhai rajendra parsad singh vhai kailay bata linguist bhaye? 😂

@@NiranjanMalakar lato desh ma gado tanneri vaneko yehi ho.

Tapai pani shastra study garnus na.

Manang,mustang pokhara lamjung bhote bhasa sanga mildo juldo huncha Gurung bhasa arkai huncha har regions ma. Pokharama bhote camp chha teha gayera sabdako artha try gara

Converted grg. In the grg community he is out in losar events too.

Jai Kamrupa Kamakhya, Jai Shri Bhairav Baba, Jai Nepal 🔱

Dhoti

@@mukpagrg5426 ta muji tibetian bhote

It seems most of Bajrayan Buddhist's bodhisatva, Tara, avalokeswar, Dwarpal etc are/were annexed and made their oun GOD and Godesses. When we research deeply, most of Hindu God and Goddesses go to end on Bajrayan Iconography. SAD to see this truth for instance Gajamaya and Saraswati to Mayadevi, Shiva's red tread ends to Maheswar. one of Bajrayan avalokeswars etc etc.

​@@NiranjanMalakar lol, you basically accept everything told by the science journey.

Manang,mustang pokhara lamjung bhote bhasa sanga mildo juldo huncha Gurung bhasa arkai huncha har regions ma. Pokhara ma bhote camp cha gayera sabdako artha try garera aau ani thaha huncha

Manang,mustang pokhara lamjung bhote bhasa sanga mildo juldo huncha Gurung bhasa arkai huncha har regions ma. Pokharama bhote camp chha teha gayera sabdako artha try gara

Gurung vayera Hindu rastra ko mag Ali achama lagyo

​@@mukpagrg5426point k ho bro ko?

How Iman Singh Chemjong Spread Hatred Against Madhesi, Lepcha, Bhutia, Khas, and Newars Introduction Iman Singh Chemjong, a contentious figure in the early 20th century, played a significant role in shaping the socio-political landscape of the Himalayan region. His actions and ideologies left a lasting impact on the ethnic and cultural dynamics of communities such as the Madhesis, Lepchas, Bhutias, Khas, and Newars. Chemjong's efforts to promote Christianity and his use of divisive tactics fostered hatred and mistrust among these groups. This essay explores how Chemjong spread animosity and division, particularly through his fabrication of the Kirat identity and derogatory terminology. The Fabrication of the Kirat Identity One of Chemjong's most notable contributions to social discord in the region was his construction of the Kirat identity. By linking the Limbus and Rais to the ancient Kirats, he attempted to create a distinct ethnic and cultural identity that would serve his broader agenda of Christianization. This fabricated identity was used to undermine and erase the historical significance of the Madhesi, Newars, and Khas people. Chemjong's strategy involved promoting the idea that the Kirats were the original inhabitants of the region, thereby delegitimizing the claims of other ethnic groups to the land and its history. This narrative not only served to elevate the Kirat identity but also to create a sense of alienation and resentment among other communities, particularly the Madhesis, who were portrayed as outsiders and intruders. Spreading Hatred Against Madhesis Chemjong's use of the term "Dhoti" as a derogatory label for Hindus, particularly those from the Indo-Gangetic plains, was a significant aspect of his divisive tactics. The term "Dhoti" was used to demean and humiliate the Madhesi community, fostering a sense of inferiority and alienation. This racial slur contributed to the growing animosity between the Madhesis and other ethnic groups in the region. By portraying the Madhesis as culturally and ethnically inferior, Chemjong aimed to marginalize them and diminish their influence. This strategy was part of a broader effort to weaken the cohesion of Hindu communities in the region and pave the way for the spread of Christianity. The stigmatization of the Madhesis had long-lasting effects, contributing to the social and political marginalization of the community. Division Among Lepchas, Bhutias, Magars, and Khas Chemjong's divisive tactics were not limited to the Madhesis. He also targeted other ethnic groups such as the Lepchas, Bhutias, Magars, and Khas. By promoting negative stereotypes and fostering inter-ethnic rivalries, he sought to create a fragmented and divided society that would be more receptive to Christianization. Among the Lepchas and Bhutias, Chemjong's efforts to promote the Kirat identity served to undermine their historical and cultural significance. By positioning the Kirats as the true indigenous people, he sought to delegitimize the claims of the Lepchas and Bhutias to the land and its heritage. This strategy created a sense of resentment and mistrust between these communities. Chemjong specifically targeted the Magar community by labeling them as refugees from Mongolia. This derogatory characterization aimed to undermine their sense of belonging and legitimacy in the region. By portraying the Magars as outsiders, Chemjong further fragmented the ethnic landscape, creating tension and division. Additionally, Chemjong vilified the Bhutia community, portraying them as oppressors and manipulators. By emphasizing negative stereotypes and historical grievances, he aimed to create conflict between the Bhutias and Lepchas. This strategy was designed to weaken the unity of these communities and make them more susceptible to his religious and political agenda. The Impact on Newars The Newars, with their rich cultural and historical heritage, were also targeted by Chemjong's divisive tactics. By promoting inter-group rivalries and fostering a sense of division, he sought to weaken the cohesion and unity of the Newar community. This strategy involved exploiting existing social and cultural differences and magnifying them to create conflict and discord. Chemjong's efforts included creating tension between the Maharjan and Shrestha sub-groups within the Newar community. By emphasizing their differences and promoting rivalry, he aimed to fragment the Newar society. This strategy was part of a broader effort to weaken Hindu communities and promote the spread of Christianity. By undermining the unity and cohesion of the Newars, he sought to create a more receptive environment for his religious and political agenda.

Why the Indigenous Status of Limbus Should Be RevokedThe question of indigenous status in Nepal is a contentious issue shaped by historical, cultural, and political factors. The Limbus, a community claiming indigenous status, lack substantial historical and archaeological evidence to support this designation. This essay argues that the indigenous status of Limbus should be reconsidered due to their migratory history from Sichuan to Tibet and later to Nepal, lack of historical artifacts, and manipulation of documents with colonial assistance.Historical and Archaeological VoidUnlike other indigenous groups in Nepal, such as the Lepcha, Bhutia, and Newar, who possess rich historical records, architectural landmarks, and cultural artifacts dating back centuries, the Limbus lack tangible evidence of ancient settlements, palaces, temples, or significant archaeological finds that would substantiate their claim as indigenous to the region. The absence of such evidence raises doubts about their historical ties to the land compared to other established indigenous communities.Migration PatternsHistorical records indicate that the Limbus migrated from Sichuan, China, to Tibet in the 13th century, and subsequently moved to Nepal in the late 16th century. These migrations, marked by geopolitical shifts and cultural exchanges, highlight their origins outside the current borders of Nepal. Unlike indigenous groups with deep-rooted ancestral ties to the region, the Limbus' migratory history suggests a more recent arrival, challenging their claim to indigenous status based on continuous presence and cultural continuity.Colonial Influence and Fabrication of DocumentsDuring the colonial era, particularly under British rule, the Limbus reportedly fabricated documents to bolster their indigenous claims. This manipulation, facilitated by colonial authorities, enabled them to assert a historical narrative and gain recognition as indigenous in certain administrative contexts. Such historical revisionism and document forgery undermine the integrity of their indigenous status claim, especially when compared to the rigorous criteria and historical authenticity required for indigenous recognition in other regions.Contemporary Status in SikkimIn neighboring Sikkim, the Limbus have lost their tribal status, indicating a recognition shift that reflects deeper scrutiny of their indigenous claims. This precedent underscores the inconsistencies and challenges associated with defining indigenous identity solely based on self-proclaimed historical narratives and manipulated documentation.

Exactly ke ta aafai research garera bolnu haina ... Nepali le paye Indra lai ne swarga ko bayan gardinxa 😂😂

Why the Indigenous Status of Limbus Should Be RevokedThe question of indigenous status in Nepal is a contentious issue shaped by historical, cultural, and political factors. The Limbus, a community claiming indigenous status, lack substantial historical and archaeological evidence to support this designation. This essay argues that the indigenous status of Limbus should be reconsidered due to their migratory history from Sichuan to Tibet and later to Nepal, lack of historical artifacts, and manipulation of documents with colonial assistance.Historical and Archaeological VoidUnlike other indigenous groups in Nepal, such as the Lepcha, Bhutia, and Newar, who possess rich historical records, architectural landmarks, and cultural artifacts dating back centuries, the Limbus lack tangible evidence of ancient settlements, palaces, temples, or significant archaeological finds that would substantiate their claim as indigenous to the region. The absence of such evidence raises doubts about their historical ties to the land compared to other established indigenous communities.Migration PatternsHistorical records indicate that the Limbus migrated from Sichuan, China, to Tibet in the 13th century, and subsequently moved to Nepal in the late 16th century. These migrations, marked by geopolitical shifts and cultural exchanges, highlight their origins outside the current borders of Nepal. Unlike indigenous groups with deep-rooted ancestral ties to the region, the Limbus' migratory history suggests a more recent arrival, challenging their claim to indigenous status based on continuous presence and cultural continuity.Colonial Influence and Fabrication of DocumentsDuring the colonial era, particularly under British rule, the Limbus reportedly fabricated documents to bolster their indigenous claims. This manipulation, facilitated by colonial authorities, enabled them to assert a historical narrative and gain recognition as indigenous in certain administrative contexts. Such historical revisionism and document forgery undermine the integrity of their indigenous status claim, especially when compared to the rigorous criteria and historical authenticity required for indigenous recognition in other regions.Contemporary Status in SikkimIn neighboring Sikkim, the Limbus have lost their tribal status, indicating a recognition shift that reflects deeper scrutiny of their indigenous claims. This precedent underscores the inconsistencies and challenges associated with defining indigenous identity solely based on self-proclaimed historical narratives and manipulated documentation.

@@pratikking2272 The assertion that the indigenous status of the Limbus should be revoked due to their migratory history, lack of historical artifacts, and alleged manipulation of documents is contentious and not universally accepted. The topic of indigenous status in Nepal is complex and involves various historical, cultural, and political dimensions. Here are some key points to consider: 1. Historical and Archaeological Evidence While archaeological evidence plays a crucial role in substantiating claims of indigeneity, the lack of such evidence does not necessarily invalidate the claims of a community. Indigenous status often also considers oral histories, cultural practices, and self-identification. The Limbus have a rich oral tradition and unique cultural practices that contribute to their identity. Historical Presence and Cultural Identity Oral History and Traditions: The Limbu community has a rich oral tradition, including folk tales, songs, and legends that have been passed down for generations. These traditions reflect the deep-rooted connection of the Limbus to their land and culture. Language and Script: The Limbu language, also known as "Yakthung Pan," is a Tibeto-Burman language with its own script, "Sirijonga." The existence of a distinct language and script is a strong indicator of a long-standing and unique cultural heritage. 2. Migration Patterns Migration histories are common among many indigenous groups worldwide. The Limbus' migration from Sichuan to Tibet and eventually to Nepal does not automatically disqualify them from being considered indigenous to Nepal. Many indigenous groups have histories of migration and resettlement due to various factors, including environmental changes, conflicts, and economic opportunities. 3. Colonial Influence and Documentation The claim that the Limbus manipulated documents with colonial assistance to assert their indigenous status needs substantial evidence. The colonial period was marked by various administrative changes and manipulations, but attributing indigenous status solely to colonial manipulation without comprehensive evidence can be misleading. It is essential to critically examine such claims and consider multiple sources and perspectives. 4. Contemporary Recognition The Limbus are recognized as one of the indigenous nationalities (Adivasi Janajati) in Nepal by the Nepal Federation of Indigenous Nationalities (NEFIN). This recognition is based on various criteria, including distinct language, culture, traditional homeland, and a sense of community. 5. Cultural and Archaeological Contributions Cultural Landmarks: While large archaeological monuments may not be prevalent, the Limbu community has significant cultural landmarks, including traditional Limbu houses, community spaces, and sacred sites. These contribute to the cultural landscape of the region. Festivals and Customs: Festivals such as Chasok Tangnam and unique customs like the practice of Mundhum (Limbu oral scriptures) showcase the rich cultural tapestry of the Limbu people.

@@pratikking2272 The assertion that the indigenous status of the Limbus should be revoked due to their migratory history, lack of historical artifacts, and alleged manipulation of documents is contentious and not universally accepted. The topic of indigenous status in Nepal is complex and involves various historical, cultural, and political dimensions. Here are some key points to consider: 1. Historical and Archaeological Evidence While archaeological evidence plays a crucial role in substantiating claims of indigeneity, the lack of such evidence does not necessarily invalidate the claims of a community. Indigenous status often also considers oral histories, cultural practices, and self-identification. The Limbus have a rich oral tradition and unique cultural practices that contribute to their identity. Historical Presence and Cultural Identity Oral History and Traditions: The Limbu community has a rich oral tradition, including folk tales, songs, and legends that have been passed down for generations. These traditions reflect the deep-rooted connection of the Limbus to their land and culture. Language and Script: The Limbu language, also known as "Yakthung Pan," is a Tibeto-Burman language with its own script, "Sirijonga." The existence of a distinct language and script is a strong indicator of a long-standing and unique cultural heritage. 2. Migration Patterns Migration histories are common among many indigenous groups worldwide. The Limbus' migration from Sichuan to Tibet and eventually to Nepal does not automatically disqualify them from being considered indigenous to Nepal. Many indigenous groups have histories of migration and resettlement due to various factors, including environmental changes, conflicts, and economic opportunities. 3. Colonial Influence and Documentation The claim that the Limbus manipulated documents with colonial assistance to assert their indigenous status needs substantial evidence. The colonial period was marked by various administrative changes and manipulations, but attributing indigenous status solely to colonial manipulation without comprehensive evidence can be misleading. It is essential to critically examine such claims and consider multiple sources and perspectives. 4. Contemporary Recognition The Limbus are recognized as one of the indigenous nationalities (Adivasi Janajati) in Nepal by the Nepal Federation of Indigenous Nationalities (NEFIN). This recognition is based on various criteria, including distinct language, culture, traditional homeland, and a sense of community. 5. Cultural and Archaeological Contributions Cultural Landmarks: While large archaeological monuments may not be prevalent, the Limbu community has significant cultural landmarks, including traditional Limbu houses, community spaces, and sacred sites. These contribute to the cultural landscape of the region. Festivals and Customs: Festivals such as Chasok Tangnam and unique customs like the practice of Mundhum (Limbu oral scriptures) showcase the rich cultural tapestry of the Limbu people.

If Limbus came to Nepal from Tibet in 13th century they should have brought Buddhism with them.

Sorry but he has been on our list for the past 2 years, ever since the Tejeshwar Babu Gong episode. And there have been over 10-12 requests asking to bring him on the podcast. There are many other guests we have been reaching out for over a year, it just takes time to make these happen. Thank you for being one of the people requesting him but it would be unfair to not acknowledge everybody.

​@@prabhuewai9905if Dr. Gurung had said what you liked, everything would've been fine for you

⁠​⁠@@prabhuewai9905Exactly he is puran guru pandit not an athropologist

@@prabhuewai9905 he is a legit historian. he has a phd on history with thesis on gurung personalities during unification campaign

@@Sushant_PradhanI am one of them…thank you brother

Me too

Why the Indigenous Status of Limbus Should Be RevokedThe question of indigenous status in Nepal is a contentious issue shaped by historical, cultural, and political factors. The Limbus, a community claiming indigenous status, lack substantial historical and archaeological evidence to support this designation. This essay argues that the indigenous status of Limbus should be reconsidered due to their migratory history from Sichuan to Tibet and later to Nepal, lack of historical artifacts, and manipulation of documents with colonial assistance.Historical and Archaeological VoidUnlike other indigenous groups in Nepal, such as the Lepcha, Bhutia, and Newar, who possess rich historical records, architectural landmarks, and cultural artifacts dating back centuries, the Limbus lack tangible evidence of ancient settlements, palaces, temples, or significant archaeological finds that would substantiate their claim as indigenous to the region. The absence of such evidence raises doubts about their historical ties to the land compared to other established indigenous communities.Migration PatternsHistorical records indicate that the Limbus migrated from Sichuan, China, to Tibet in the 13th century, and subsequently moved to Nepal in the late 16th century. These migrations, marked by geopolitical shifts and cultural exchanges, highlight their origins outside the current borders of Nepal. Unlike indigenous groups with deep-rooted ancestral ties to the region, the Limbus' migratory history suggests a more recent arrival, challenging their claim to indigenous status based on continuous presence and cultural continuity.Colonial Influence and Fabrication of DocumentsDuring the colonial era, particularly under British rule, the Limbus reportedly fabricated documents to bolster their indigenous claims. This manipulation, facilitated by colonial authorities, enabled them to assert a historical narrative and gain recognition as indigenous in certain administrative contexts. Such historical revisionism and document forgery undermine the integrity of their indigenous status claim, especially when compared to the rigorous criteria and historical authenticity required for indigenous recognition in other regions.Contemporary Status in SikkimIn neighboring Sikkim, the Limbus have lost their tribal status, indicating a recognition shift that reflects deeper scrutiny of their indigenous claims. This precedent underscores the inconsistencies and challenges associated with defining indigenous identity solely based on self-proclaimed historical narratives and manipulated documentation.

As a newar ma chai kirant ho bhanxu Ho hami hindu culture sanga related xa god same ho community hoina

Shiva lai manne kirat pani hoina newar pani hoina

@@rajibchitrakar2679 Ktm ka mandir chai kasle banako ta.

@@manishshrestha4988 Ktm ko purano mandir murti sabai Buddhist king haru le banayeko ho. Pashupati charumati bihar ko aansa thiyo. Pachi India bata malla king aayera hindu ma convert gareko ho. Same with changu Narayan, budhanilkantha. Tapai ko history khojnu tapai pani Buddhist hunai parchha 100%. Adha newar hindu king le garera afno religion chodnu paryo. Nepal ma either Buddhism or shamanism matra thiyo.

​@@rajibchitrakar2679bro lay bujena jasto xha shiva and yalmber is similar but not same

Tait. This converted grg is one of the biased historians of Nepal. Was the puppet of durbar. He passed thru durbar blessing

@@lesmonde4361 our Kirawa,kirati's descendents were from Assam , Meghalaya, which includes Bodo-kachari (meche) , koche , manipuri , Nagas , kukis & in Nepal flat lands(terai) Dhimal, Tharu, rajbanshi,tajpuriya,jirel , surel,chepang. Our "Mundhum" says we got separated all at Koshi River while travelling from Aasam via Chattara (koshi) way to East mountains in search of shelter, food and clothes. Then some brothers decided to stay at plain areas of Eastern Nepal all the way from Assam and North East India . 👍

Why the Indigenous Status of Limbus Should Be RevokedThe question of indigenous status in Nepal is a contentious issue shaped by historical, cultural, and political factors. The Limbus, a community claiming indigenous status, lack substantial historical and archaeological evidence to support this designation. This essay argues that the indigenous status of Limbus should be reconsidered due to their migratory history from Sichuan to Tibet and later to Nepal, lack of historical artifacts, and manipulation of documents with colonial assistance.Historical and Archaeological VoidUnlike other indigenous groups in Nepal, such as the Lepcha, Bhutia, and Newar, who possess rich historical records, architectural landmarks, and cultural artifacts dating back centuries, the Limbus lack tangible evidence of ancient settlements, palaces, temples, or significant archaeological finds that would substantiate their claim as indigenous to the region. The absence of such evidence raises doubts about their historical ties to the land compared to other established indigenous communities.Migration PatternsHistorical records indicate that the Limbus migrated from Sichuan, China, to Tibet in the 13th century, and subsequently moved to Nepal in the late 16th century. These migrations, marked by geopolitical shifts and cultural exchanges, highlight their origins outside the current borders of Nepal. Unlike indigenous groups with deep-rooted ancestral ties to the region, the Limbus' migratory history suggests a more recent arrival, challenging their claim to indigenous status based on continuous presence and cultural continuity.Colonial Influence and Fabrication of DocumentsDuring the colonial era, particularly under British rule, the Limbus reportedly fabricated documents to bolster their indigenous claims. This manipulation, facilitated by colonial authorities, enabled them to assert a historical narrative and gain recognition as indigenous in certain administrative contexts. Such historical revisionism and document forgery undermine the integrity of their indigenous status claim, especially when compared to the rigorous criteria and historical authenticity required for indigenous recognition in other regions.Contemporary Status in SikkimIn neighboring Sikkim, the Limbus have lost their tribal status, indicating a recognition shift that reflects deeper scrutiny of their indigenous claims. This precedent underscores the inconsistencies and challenges associated with defining indigenous identity solely based on self-proclaimed historical narratives and manipulated documentation.

All the tribes living in himalayan especially eastern himalayas were called kiratis by bhramins.......

​@@Tobiraaaama very apt description

I am with you. I am also want to insist that please bring Dr George van driem on your podcast. Humble requesting serve us linguistic Dr. George van driem. 🙏🏼

Gurung haru pachim tira yesarinoi bolxa purba Ko gurung aarkoi gari bolxa