Ep. 293 | Barrel Length - Does Size Really Matter? 

Realistically, 400 yards covers the vast majority of hunting shots. It doesn't take much to kill even an elk at 400 yards. I love this movement to shorter ranges, shorter, lighter rifles, smaller more durable scopes.

The more I've gotten into guns the more I just think...why not just get a short barrel 308 that doesn't require a long barrel...suppress it...and shoot heavy bullets. I'm never going to want to shoot at an animal over 400 yards if I'm being ethical. Taking a short barrel 300 WSM for caribou in August. Let er' rip.

Thank you for finally going over this! You have dropped a little info here and there on numerous podcasts and I knew you were running a shorter barrel 308, and finally figured out that you were running a 130 grain, but didn't know what. I've been doing the same and finally built a short 308 last year with a defiance action, carbon barrel, Triggertech trigger, and a Grayboe Phoenix stock, and 3-15 vortex LHT. I absolutely love the short, handy, 308. I may have to try it with my razor 1-6 or my razor 1‐10!

I’m getting similar velocities with my 308WIN Browning BLR with 20” barrel. Short, light, handy 308 rifles are such a joy when still hunting in the bush or sitting in the tree stand.

Plus 1 for lead balloons! Been waiting for this topic for a long time. I highly recommend doing a gel test with match ammo from a short barrel. The slower starting velocity aids in penetration, and the lower velocity that match ammo is best used at pushes your ranges further. You lose very little “practical” range with a short barrel and an eldm/amax, eldx, or tmk.

I built something very similar on a ruger 77 in 308 a few years ago. 16”, box mags, 2-10 glass, griffin can. Excellent handy package for hunting to 400 yards

The fact that I’m hooked on this podcast love the optics and respect you guys and thankful for all of the great information and you guys like toyota was it! Huge fan!

Great content as always guys! I've got the Calix Technic cheek piece on my stainless 308 T3x lite, the cheek piece really took my shooting to another level. Also equipped with the pistol style grip piece, wider fore end stock piece, Meopta meostar r2 2,5-15x56 scope and a Stalon X108 suppressor. Couldn't be much happier with the setup. A great example of finnish quality. Only thing missing is a proper bipod, been thinking of getting a spartan, only thing holding me back is the price. I use it for anything from range to birds, foxes, deer all the way to moose. Greetings from Finland! 🇫🇮

Great timing. I'm building a Ruger 7mm-08 and chopping the barrel to 16" and throwing it into a heat seeker stock. Threading the barrel for suppressor. Something lightweight to walk through the woods with for short range (30-150 yrds).

Watched this at least 3 times 😂 suggestion for a future topic : the effect of fluting on barrels (temperature, stiffness,…) would be very interested in that!

Thank you so much for this episode!

love lead balloon. 338 fed. 17 fireball. 27 nos. 348 win. 357 max. 300 & 338 RCM. 260 Rem. 7-30 waters. 338 marlin express. 327 fed mag

Let's go with the .338 Federal lead balloon episode! I wanted to swap my Sig Cross to a .338 Fed but ended up letting it go instead, just didn't scratch any itches for me.

So up here in Canada, outside of region caliber restrictions (Southern Ontario and PEI), length is restricted in two manners. 1) Barrel length for semi-automatic long guns have to be 18.5inches 2) overall length is greater then 26 inches. So if your bolt gun or lever gun is greater then 26 inches your good to go. The can is not welcome though, unfortunately. Love your guys podcast, cheers!

I’ve done the same with a 16 in Sig Cross in .308 and Thunderbeast Dominus suppressor. It also folds. If you have a pic rail and a good return to zero mount you can take multiple scopes if wanted. Decent return to zero test a few years ago in recoil mag (that is free online).

Add one in Wyoming for the next Lead Balloon episode. I’m a fan of the 284 Winchester, 338 Federal, 300 RCM and 338 RCM, 7mm STW, 7mm Weatherby and 7mm RUM etc. Love hearing from you all. How would the 16 barrel in the 6.5 BC stack up?

Interesting stuff! I've just joined the shooting world in the UK (yes, we do have one) and this topic is a whole thing i've never thought about. This is a very interesting way of looking at things. I'm enjoying the channel too.

Built a 20” .30-06 for Mountain/ Thick Brush/Tree Stand , very handy and very happy with it.

Here in NZ we mostly use suppressors that are Iver barrel as much as beyond barrel. This keeps even more length down.

My first rifle was a 16” Remington model 7 in 308. Sweetest shooting little gun I’ve ever owned. Thanks for sharing, it made me feel good to reflect on my good fortune in owning this rifle

Got a Savage 110 Lightweight Storm 7mm-08 cut down to 16.5 with my suppressor barrel is 22 inches long and gun weighs 7.5lbs with suppressor about 42 inches over all length. Its a fun gun.

I just gotta share this hunting story with y’all. Here in Texas we shoot smallish Whitetail at around 100 yards. For decades I hunted with a H&K 770 308. 19 1/2” barrel. While I never lost a deer I got all kinds of different terminal results. One year I came to camp with 150 Nosler ballistic tip ammo. A new guy showed up with a 24” barrel 308 700. He had the same ammo! We both got small meat does at 100 yards. I had a ping pong sized exit wound through the shoulders. He blew the shoulder almost completely off!! I couldn’t believe the difference!!! Later I acquired a 24” 700 of my own and took both rifles to range to chronograph my loads through both rifles. My results were a consistent 200+ difference between the two rifles. Later I found that the 24” gun consistently provided more terminal performance on game by a noticeable margin over the H&K. For years I’ve heard that 100-150 fps won’t make a difference in the field. Well for sure 200 does!

You guys must see the Reflex Suppressors we use in South Africa. So Half the suppressor fits over the Barrel, making that first chamber nice and big, and still only have half the length of the suppressors sticks out in front of the barrel

I have been waiting for someone to do this. Thank you!

Have a ruger ranch 6.5 cm with 16.3 inch bbl...shoots .5 moa suppressed with multiple factory ammos. Great cast!

I'm in British Columbia Canada and our provincial hunting regulations require barrel lengths greater than 305mm (12.2 inches). My latest hunting rifle build is a bolt action 14in carbon fiber 6.5Creedmoor. With factory Hornady 143 ELD-X my avg velocity is 2360fps which is only 340fps slower compared to their 24in test barrel. It's still plenty accurate out to 1000m so it'll do the job within 200m hunting distances.

This was a great topic and discussion! I'd love to see you guys talk about break action single shot rifles. I have a cva scout v2 in .350 legend and even with a 20 inch barrel it is a super compact rifle. So easy to carry around and uses in different scenarios.

I have been shooting rifles for a long time. I am 68. All of my favorite rifles had a barrel of a min of 24 inches. Those are the centerfire rifles. My rimfire rifle all had long barrels as well. I would guess my old Marlin Model 60 has a 20 inch barrel, it is very accurate for a semi-auto. My most favorite rimfire was a Winchester Model 69A bolt that my Dad bought new in the 40s. I think it had a 24-26" barrel.

Suppressor attachments: dead air xeno is a pretty good, lightweight one. You can also get a Xeno Zero device that has no flashhider or brake on the end, its just threads and taper. Its not the only option, just the only one i remember being universal.

Where I hunt, most of my shots are 50 yards and in. I started hunting with a Rem 700 in .270 Win w/ a 22" bbl. After a few hunts, I brought my AR in .300 Blackout w/ a 16" bbl. Next hunt, I plan to go out with a Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 Mag w/ a 7.5" bbl. Scope or not, we'll see, but regardless it's going to be a lot handier and lighter than anything I've previously carried.

I shoot my Ruger Hawkeye compact in 308. It's been a great gun for years. Whether in a tree or shooting house, it's got what I need. Great look to yours too.

I've been trying to figure this out for the last few weeks, this is perfect.

I just got the CVA Cascade SB in 6.5 creedmoor, and I couldn't be happier.

Adding one for the "please more lead balloons Mark" I've got a 20" 6.5 creedmoor and I'm not giving up a heck of a lot against 24" barrels.

Great show..love it and keep it up.

Cool to hear my man and local gunsmith Matt Peterson get some air time!

Hi Ryan! I just recently went through the exact same process and came up with: Tikka T3x light stainless, 308 Win, cut barrel to 17". For better balance with a suppressor on I went with a laminated OEM Tikka T3 stock (second hand), bedded it and added flush cup QD sling mounts. For optics I went with a S&B Zenith 3-12x50 illuminated FFP reticle. The whole rig comes in at 41.3" and 9.36 lbs (scope is 24.7 oz). An excellent all-round rig for box blinds, still hunting or even driven hunts. Perfect for Germany, where I live. Best regards, K.

I have hunted whitetail deer with my Sandman Ti for many years now and it is a great hunting suppressor. Looks great on that short barrel rifle.

Excellent data and discussion. I’m running a 16” 308 in a suppressed bullpup (Desert Tech SRS) and it’s even more handy than those Tikkas. Not giving up anything and can easily make hits on steel at 1k yards.

Do most of my hunting in areas where a 200yrd shot is pretty much max. Been using a 18.5” .308 and i’d find it hard to go back to a 24”. So handy.

I am a barrel chopper. I have done this with a few. For example, a .270 win reduced to 19". It performs really well

Do an analysis on how different calibers are affected by barrel length

Lead balloon please! 338 Federal would be cool!

🤷‍♂️ "Lead Balloon?!" 💥 The 338 Federal would be a "perfect selection" for fun! 😜

On rewatching this video, I was reminded of a hunting cartridge that would be an especially good in a 16" barrel the 338 RCM (Ruger Compact Magnum). This is actually the parent case for the 6.5 PRC. This cartridge holds a little more powder than the 30-06. The larger diameter bullet and short case make better use of short barrels, per grain of powder, than a longer, skinner case and smaller diameter bullet.

I cut down a savage 110 in .270 win to 16.5" and its a sweet, handy deer rifle. I asked the Winchester rep about the expansion threshold of their deer season XP and he told me it would expand nicely at as little as 1500 fps so if that's true the bullets will perform out much further than I can hit game.

Just to let you know Mdt did a 308 and a 22 long barrel test, so Ryan and Taylor were both right. Great pod cast again as always thanks.

Barrel over suppressors are probably more common here in New Zealand,more quiet. Thanks for the mention.

If you need to make sure your M118LR doesnt go transsonic until after 1200 yards, you need barrel length. If your gonna tag a white tail at 100 yards you can use an 8" .308 and be fine. A bit extreme but viable. The 16" or 18"* is really what would suit a lot of people very well. *dont knock an extra inch or two, to allow barrel setback (unlikely but possible) or thread/muzzle repair (actually likely) while staying above 16". Unless you just wanna buy a new barrel instead of repair. Buyers choice.

I asked my wife does barrel length matter, she said a heavy barrel is desirable & it cant be too long because they can be difficult to handle in tight, brushy situations but it can't be too short either or it wont be long enough to get an acceptable muzzle velocity for the load.

Modern, efficient cartridges are far less sensitive to barrel length. I cut down a 300 PRC from 26" to 20" and lost 147 fps (Magnetospeed measured) with Hornady ELD-X factory ammo. I'm only down 100 fps from the box velocity on 225gr ELD-M. That's a 5% reduction in velocity but a 20% shorter barrel, an increase in barrel stiffness, and a significant reduction in weight.

Cheers lads, Have you done an episode on factory Scout rifles like the Ruger Gunsite, Mossberg etc mounting scopes on them forward or rear and if it makes a difference or advantage over the factory (open sites)

An interesting cartridge for one of these compact rifles would be 277 SIG Fury. In fact, the primary advantage of that cartridge using the "hybrid case" ammo is its short barrel performance. The 80,000 psi gets more energy out of its propellant in the first few inches of the barrel. The new military M7's barrel is only 13" long. According to SIG's published info, the Fury produces the velocity of a traditional 270 Win but out of a 16" vs 24" barrel. FWIW, it produces 270 WSM velocities out of a 24" barrel, but so does the 270 WSM. 😀

Which is why I had my custom made Shilen 300 RUM with a 34" barrel.

...THANK YOU!! THIS WAS INTERESTING. I WISH THAT YOU WOULD "LIST" SOME OF THE "SPECS" OF ALL OF THE "VARIABLES, IN THE VIDEO DESCRIPTION DATA.

Some companies like Federal and Hornady even offer factory loaded options for shorter barrels. Federal Fusion is an excellent hunting bullet and they make a variant called MSR (modern sporting rifle) for use in AR platform rifles, with shorter barrels. That would probably be an excellent choice in these 308’s, if you didn’t want to hand load. Hornady makes their Black line of ammo, which is intended for AR’s…although the bullets they use aren’t necessarily hunting bullets.

Im having a 20 inch barrel put on my 300 wsm. The way i see it is in a hunting rifle that you use to spot and stalk elk and deer etc a short rifle is far superior in my opinion compared to a long skinny barrel. Good video guys

I am building just such a rifle. I’m using a Savage AXIS in 308, barrel cut down to 16.5” with a target crown and with the factory plastic stock (very lite) bobbed off at the rear of the grip. I designed a threaded adaptor to fit and be epoxied into the grip area of the stock to accept a AR style collapsable stock that would allow a minimum legal length. Very lite, very short for backpacking and yes, I have a Vortex Diamondback 2x7 scope for it. Thanks for the tip on the 15” load data, I have a 8# jug of Varget and a couple hundred 125gr Nosler BTs ready to go. 2900fps is nothing to sneeze at, should drop a whitetail like a laser beam.

Marlin 1895 Trapper with a Witt Machine Mod.1 .458 can. Only adds about 4.5” to the barrel length. Combine with a 525 gr. WFN at 1050 fps or 1600 fps. I know how much Ryan loves the .45-70!

I just bought a 20" 270 barrel. Love it versus a longer, heavier barrel.

5 months ago Ryan talked about this 308 build ans by golly he did it. Never wouldve thought orange would look good on a rifle!

I love that orange blaze furniture on that Tikka. The Canadian Rangers rifle is an orange laminate Tikka. But sorry, I really hope this short barrel thing does not become the new trend. If hunting in forest maybe but not on the plains. I have a 20" 9.3x62 tikka for woods hunting but currently looking for a 26" 22-250 for the plains.

I love a shorter rifle. My go to deer rifle is a bergara ridge sp in 6.5 creedmoor. It’s got an 18inch barrel and I use a Q jumbo shrimp suppressor. The can is titanium and compact great little hunting suppressor. Topped with a razor hd lh 1.5-8x32.

I've got Ruger 77 compacts with 16" bbls in 308, and 7mm08 another a 16" Gunsite scout 308 and a Hawkeye compact Magnum 20" 300 RCM. Never seen a disadvantage in on game performance with the short bbls vs my standard length bbl rifles within normal hunting ranges but they are much handier to carry especially in the brush.

I have the 20" Tikka T3X CTR SS Chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor and I absolutely love it. Im not an avid hunter and have a lot more handgun experience than rifles other than a .22lr takedown. I have shot it 4 times and the biggest group I have shot was a .79 5 shot group with Sellior & Belloit. When I shhot the 140 gr Hornady ELD-M or the Norma 140gr Match ammot it shoots .49 5 shot groups consistantly. Folks Tikka has figured something out that most people have to pay a lot more to get accuracy wise. The Bolt action is smoother than any other action I have personally felt. The trigger is adjustable down to 2lbs from factory and for $10 + shipping adding a YO DAVE trigger spring gets it down to 1lbs and some have even gotten under. The only complaint I would say I would like addressed is cocking the bolt is a little tough like it has a cam over. But its not a custom action so I would suspect it is like that for the hunting aspect. Either way they guarantee 1 moa on all their rifles.

Love the idea of pronghorn with an LPVO! People tend to over magnify their hunting guns. You don't need 14x mag to place a shot!

My wife just purchased an outback and loves it. Rides great and has a lot of room in it. Get one. Plus they grt good gas mileage

338 Federal please. Love your gun Ryan. I have an 18" Ruger American Predator in 308 that fills that same role for me.

As mentioned in New Zealand everyone is running suppressed rifles although a lot of our are over barrel suppressors so you only adding 3-4 inch so gun can be shorter then std Great video keep up the great work👍

Something I would really like to see discussed (maybe in a 10 minute chat) is suppressor types. As a European, every suppressor I have ever used (or seen used by other hunters) has been an over barrel/reflex suppressor. I just recently bought one by DPT that is a total of 8 inches long, weighs 9oz but only protrudes 4 inches forward of the muzzle. On my 20inch "out of the box" Tikka, it gives me a very similar package to the two guns in this episode, except I get 4 extra inches of barrel. I rally don't understand why reflex suppressors aren't used in the US. What am I missing?

Those before the cut speeds are what I get, close anyways, from my factory 16 inch. 168s @ 2650 150s @ 2750 130s @ 3050

Recommend for everyone reading this. 16" 300 win mag.

Get a Svemko from Norway less than 12 ounces for their magnum version with a 1/4 turn mounting option. Their small one for the 308 weighs sub 9 oz. Titanium internals and Aluminum shell. A bit on the expensive side, but a one in a lifetime purchase. Will never give mine up

I hunt with 4 different variations of a 45-70. My barrel lengths vary from 18" to 22" and when I chronographed them, their velocities were 2% to 5% less than the manufacturer's listed values. I contacted a few cartridge manufactures and found they all use 24" test barrels to obtain their velocity values. I was amazed how much the velocities dropped in my 45-70s, which could use every bit of umpf they can get. The current trend for large bore lever guns, is minimize the barrel length. Check out the current offerings from Ruger/Marlin and Henry. The barrel lengths go from 16.17" to 19.8. The 16" Trapper" from Marlin may see siginificant drops in velocity over the published values. Does this matter? That's up to the shooter. Could it mean the difference in a clean kill or a wounded bear coming your way? I don't know. How can shooters create statistics on something so subjective?

Wonderful show.. I hunt in Canada and I don't like anything longer then a 22" barrel. Works just fine.

I’m in love with my Ruger gunsight scout rifle it’s seriously such a handy thing mine is a 308 Winchester but now they are making it in 350 legend and I think 450 bushmaster

That's why I love my Ruger Composite Scout.

I'm in New Zealand, very common for people to cut rifles down for bush hunting, or timber as you call it, they are commonly referred to as bush pigs. I have a Thompson Centre in 7mm08 cut down to 14" 8" suppressor but over barrel so 4" forward of barrel, 4'" over barrel, very short and easy to get through thick bush, only lost 200' per second, still enough energy for a white tail out to 300 yards, but unlikely to get a shot that long. I have seen you speak about suppressors a bit on vortex nation but they all seem to be muzzle forward, here in NZ pretty much everyone i hunt with have over barrel which means good suppression but not as long forward of muzzle and better balance. I am curious why you aren't using over barrel suppressors more?

Man I wish Tikka would make a 6arc to do this with I didn't know if all the orange add on from tikka would look good but i actually like it

Thank you for “reasonably” discussing differences between 308 and 6.5cr; I have no issues with 6.5cr, but it is not the best thing since sliced bread. It doesn’t provide me any advantages in the ranges I am (and can) going to engage. If I ever dip my toe in the long range steel game, then absolutely the 6.5cr would be near the top of my list.

Fantastic! What a monday!

Anyone have a link for the company that made Ryan’s rifle comb add on? Nothing comes up when I google calyx technic.

That Tikka in orange! is a beautiful rifle.

6.8 spc design for 16" barrel ! My next build , but please, do the 338 fed sounds like a good brush buster

Lead balloon for sure! Great topic and love the short guns! Tacoma’s and Tikka’s - there has never been a better match.

I would like to know what you think of a 260 rem or 7- 08 rem configured like that would be good for deer and coyotes

Hearing about the difference in velocity between the 16” and 20” barrels made me feel good about decision the build a 16” AR-10.

my build: Grs Bifrost, 6.5*55Scan,T3x SS lite,20" barrel A tec H2 modular supressor w/break endcap,Deer Moose and capercaillie, wood grouse,geese.Max dist for me 350m.

Great episode

So what was the velocity with suppressor? I have heard that velocities increase suppressed.

Hi Mark and Taylor. Can you confirm which model of the T3X you used for your respective builds and also the threading you were able to go with. Thanks in advance for all the information you share on your podcasts. 👍🏻🇨🇦

Mine 16" 130 ttsx 3054 AV. SD 8 with 54.9gr w748. VERY compressed load at Barnes book max and and 1mm from overflowing case mouth

I’m loving my Sig Cross 18” bbl in 6.5cm. Hand loading I’m pushing 140’s 2,800 fps easily. Found a chart showing percentage of powder burned for an 18” bbl. and I’m set on using Reloader 17(99.7% burn).

Answer: yes Edit: This is a light deer gun for 200yds hunting distance. Use for heavy timbered, logging roads and very small open fields.

Could you cut the barrel and suppress a magnum such as 300 win or 7 rem mag with similar results or does the magnum rely more heavily on the barrel length than the 308 ??

My deer rifle is a Steyr Mannlicher Luxus in .308 with a standard 20" barrel and it has never failed me in the twenty years plus that I have owned it. My matching 9.3 x 62mm also sports a 20" barrel and does the job on all plains game, though I have never used it on Dagga Boys or Lions. I also have a Steyr Mannlicher SSG P1 in .308 that I had chopped down to a 22" barrel - dead deer with every time. For many years the SSG used to have the standard 26" with a Reflex T8 moderator - never really liked it - spoiled the balance and accuracy was not that good. Once I got rid of the moderator and chopped it the accuracy was outstanding. Over the decades I have come to think that moderators don't give you that much of an advantage in the field. I now only use moderators on .22LR with sub-sonics. Another thing, shorter barrels are more rigid and the harmonics appear to be more stable.

what do you think about a 16 inch 6.5 creedmoor? I have one thats 24 inches now, and i was contemplating shortening it to save weight and create a handier package for hunting whitetails and pigs in georgia. The gun is a savage 110 tactical 6.5cm with 24inch barrel.

The real question is why don't Americans have over barrel suppressors? Here in New Zealand we generally hunt with a suppressor that comes over the barrel so only say 6 to 8 inches protrude past the muzzle. It makes the rifle even shorter and handier to maneuver.

I have a Howa 1500 with a medium heavy barrel that if the barrel is no longer than 20 inches long. It is not threaded but has a short barrel. It has been a tack driver. My other .308 has a standard hunting barrel regular length, it is a Savage model 10. Both rifles are equally accurate and both are factory stock no mods. I like the accu trigger on the Savage better though.

Also, you may have some free ore boost with that can. I doubt it will matter for most practical purposes but good data builds confidence at longer range.