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Ep114: 'Lineage - Who May Teach The Authentic Dharma?' - Dhammarato & Daniel Ingram

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In this episode I host a dialogue between Dhammarato and Daniel Ingram on the question ‘Lineage: Who May Teach The Authentic Dharma?’.
Dhammarato is a lineage teacher in the Thai Buddhist tradition, a student of the meditation master Bikkhu Buddhadasa, and is known for his unique, 1-1 teaching style conducted over Skype.
Daniel Ingram is an independent Buddhist author and co-founder of the Emergent Phenomenology Research Consortium (EPRC), a multidisciplinary, multinational alliance of researchers, clinicians, and patrons who share a vision of bringing scientific methods and clinical sensibilities to the study of emergent phenomena.
In this episode Dhammarato and Daniel offer various definitions of the word ‘lineage’ and debate the value of lineage authorisation as a qualification to teach the Buddhist religion.
Dhammarato recalls his own monastic training in what he calls the ‘noble lineage’ under teachers such as a Ajahn Po and Bikkhu Buddhadasa and critiques the lack of authentic lineage in the West, while Daniel reflects on the pros and cons of the concept of lineage purity and institutional persecution of the outsider.
Dhammarato and Daniel also consider generational preferences in lineage styles, the roles of religious institutions, and predict the evolution of Buddhism in America.
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www.guruviking...
Audio version of this podcast also available on iTunes and Spotify - search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
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Topics Include:
00:00 - Intro
01:59 - Lineage - who may teach the authentic dharma
03:36 - Dhammarato’s opening address
18:51 -Daniel’s opening address
33:31 - What is lineage?
38:55 - Lack of lineage in the West
41:57 - Christopher Titmuss on what makes a dharma teacher
44:31 - Aesthetics vs dhamma
47:59 - Dhammarato’s noble training under Ajahn Po
54:10 - Goenka approach is the end a lineage
55:42 - Lineage as family and pure blood perspective
59:04 - Noble vs ordinary lineage
01:06:48 - Lineage as outsourced social proof
01:13:08 - Spending time with role models
01:20:37 - The roles of institutions
01:24:20 - With whom should you share your attainments?
01:31:11 - The maverick and the institution
01:33:02 - Generational preferences
01:37:22 - The evolutional of Western Buddhism
01:43:23 - Evaluating competency and judging others
01:44:07 - Daniel’s closing address
01:49:00 - Dhammarato’s closing address
..
Dhammarato Episode Playlist
- • Dhammarato Series
Daniel Ingram Episode Playlist
- • Daniel Ingram Series
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To find out more about Dhammarato, visit:
- / @dhammaratodhamma
To find out more about Daniel, visit:
- theeprc.org/
- integrateddaniel.info
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For more interviews, videos, and more visit:
- www.guruviking.com
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Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James

Опубликовано:

18 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 80

@DavidAdriance 2 года назад

Number one takeaway: Not Sure

@ceruleandusk 2 года назад

In my opinion, It would be better if you showed all of you on the screen even when only one is talking to see the reactions/expressions !

@VeritableVagabond 2 года назад

I like that format better too. Makes it feel way more dynamic.

@poimandres 2 года назад

agreed

@looklikemyles 2 года назад

Never thought I'd hear Daniel Ingram say "the thirst is real"

@ceruleandusk 2 года назад

When does he say that?

@synsynsy 2 года назад

A bit of politics never hurts... Interesting topic and show notes. Can't wait...

@eraldcala9125 2 года назад

I feel like what people really want to listen to is Dhammarato's method vs Daniel's method for awakening and what the criteria are for each of them for fully awakening. Dhammarato often criticizes Daniel's method of awakening and says the method he(Dhammarato) teaches is the buddha's method. Please make it happen Steve!

@eraldcala9125 2 года назад

@@thomashammon7668 i don't recall but I've asked him personally. He mentiones mahasi noting is like being the noting king of noticing garbage(bad feelings) and we should focus on noting good feelings.

@user-fg3fv9hl3b 2 года назад

He addresses your question and comment in the next video

@gxlorp 2 года назад

I like how the goal is to get them to disagree. 🙂

@Parker-cp6ty 2 года назад

Great talk! 😄

@MetaPerspective_ 2 года назад

Really looking forward to this one!

@gxlorp 2 года назад

Thank you steve for doing this.

@StraightUniversalism 2 года назад

anyone knows 'the 5 ways to 1st jhana' as buddha said mentioned by dhammarato

@mnmpdadish Год назад

simply captivating 🙂

@edsabate7435 2 года назад

Fascinanting, thank you!!

@MetaPerspective_ 2 года назад

Great discussion!

@synsynsy 2 года назад

I'm the kind of guy that's "rubbing sticks" al by himself without any sense of progress. Feels like I'm going in circles. Well... I'm gonna "rub some more" now, just to end the day. Thanks for your talk. I feel I should take this one for a couple of walks in the forest. Heard many interesting things. Cheers!

@user-fg3fv9hl3b 5 месяцев назад

Keep rubbing it out bro

@LWT1331 2 года назад

Like any monk, Dhammarato is stuck in indoctrication and tradition. Tunnel vision is a good word for what he has. And Pride; so many monks are too proud and arrogant to admit the system needs expanding. So much for "no self".

@jw_bird 2 года назад

🍿

@AngelRPuente 2 года назад

This whole problem of lineages can be solved by establishing a definitive body of knowledge. To just fall back to “it's complicated” and leave everything in the air is unacceptable. By body of knowledge, I mean precision in the mathematical sense. To know exactly what the end is and how to get there. One plus one equals two. What prevents this is wanting to squeeze fit all that can be studied scientifically into an archaic Buddhist mold. This may be important for religious-minded people, the lineage, but irrelevant for humanity at large.

@vivaldiwilson5449 2 года назад

There is such a thing, the noble dhamma of the Buddha is quite well known. The problem is that so may buddhist dont like it and want to follow what that want and believe. That's the complexity. When one finds the noble Buddhas Dhamma, one will know, until then expect complexity doubts confusion and desire.

2 года назад

That is how you get so many Buddhist and secular meditation schools, they all try to establish a definitive body of knowledge, and then you get a lot of teachers calling their own method "the one true way". On the other hand, maybe just as weight lifting, running, gymnastics and swimming all have the overall effect of making your body fit and healthy, maybe the various lineages and secular approaches will lead to a fit, healthy mind, just with a different flavor of fitness.

@toddm6999 2 года назад

I like the idea of Noble...it's Quixotic

@matthewholton5598 2 года назад

Holy cow. Ingram is having a debate but Dhammarato is sharing the Dhamma. So interesting. Thank you.

@user-fg3fv9hl3b Год назад

They're both sharing the dhamma.

@Dharmapagan Год назад

The breakdown: Dhammarato’s words lead his listener to have clarity and to be satisfied. Daniel fills every space with confusion and dissatisfaction by complicating every topic in order to distract from what he is always doing. Why? Because Dan is trying to sell you something and Dhammarato isn’t. Just as advertising is designed to make you dissatisfied and fill your mind with mental images that drive you to want their products, Dan uses his academic intelligence to do just this and he calls it Dharma. Dhammarato isn’t trying to sell anything. His only teaching is to practice satisfaction over and over until one day you look back and realize all that craving and delusion that wove samsara is gone. Dan wants you to buy his products. This is classic case of co-opting for profit.

@user-fg3fv9hl3b Год назад

Dan loses money on his books btw, he made ONE book, get over it. Quit basing an entire opinion over that, Daniel's an awesome teacher and I find Dhammarato quite unsatisfying.

@Dharmapagan Год назад

@@user-fg3fv9hl3b Do you find that you have less confusion, less suffering, from Dan’s teachings? If so, then he is the right teacher for you.

@Andy-lo9sp Год назад

Buy what products lmao, he posts his book for free online and refuses to accept dana. I don’t agree with everything Dan says in the slightest, but this hyper-analytical framing of the path is something that works for a subset of people, just as other framings work for others.

@youtubyoutuber6150 2 года назад

As if it weren’t already difficult to find a good meditation teacher…now have to worry about lineage too…

@petrairene 2 года назад

If you want to find a good meditation teacher you have to worry about lineage. Because lineage is where that meditation instructor learned to meditate him/herself. After you had a traffic accident, you want to be operated on by a surgeon who is self-taught??????????????? With a diploma on the wall that is signed by himself? No? Prefer one who has learned it from top surgeons at an actual university and had to pass tests to get an approbation?

@gxlorp 2 года назад

@@petrairene that's a bad analogy. Because self taught surgeons can kill people. I dont see meditation teachers killing people unless they are serial killers or drunk drivers. They wouldn't kill people by teaching

@petrairene 2 года назад

@@gxlorp They are killing them spiritually or can induce emotional dependence or mental illness in more unstable individuals. Cult gurus sell all kind of harmful mental techniques as meditation.

@moonmissy 2 года назад

@@michaelkors2413 I don’t see it as a bad analogy at all. Most therapists requires a lot of studying and training before they can do therapy. A meditation teacher is no different.. they are working with your mind, people’s minds. If people don’t think that as valuable as the body.. I don’t know what is?

@petrairene 2 года назад

@@michaelkors2413 Programming is much easier in that respet. Your product either works or it does not. You know immediately if it works and you know immediately if it doesn't With harmful meditation techniques the harm is often done very slowly and over time and people don't notice it. Plus, in meditation there are a ton of possible "experiences" that a meditator can mistake for a desirable advanced state. Meditating is like training a dressage horse. To get a good result you really need to know what you are doing and you can not learn it DIY because you need the outside feedback to determine what is going wrong.

@bxnxjmin 2 года назад

Daniel is awesome. Dhammarato is a ditz and in my opinion he regurgitates.

@harkhashakya4892 2 года назад

Wandana wandana wandana sadhu sadhu sadhu

@DorKonforty 2 года назад

"Wanting something you don't have" is not dukkha, it's desire. Wanting not to have desire is dukkha.

@user-fg3fv9hl3b Год назад

Both are dukkha! Desire is suffering. Wanting not to have desire if skillfully applied can be quite helpful

@gyurmethlodroe1774 Год назад

NkT has created a " New lineage", 🤣

@ushojedi 2 года назад

Dear Guru Viking, this is the Dharma so it's not a question of objectifiable materialist analysis. Thus the very practical technique of heart surgery is not an appropriate analogy in my opinion. The other heart surgery is. Falling in love. Would you prefer your parents to choose your partner for you based on an authority and the fact that arranged marriages statistically last longer and are less problematic or would you prefer the modern development of your own heart deciding despite the risks and troubles that has? The basis of being 'noble' or the 'spark' is simply falling in love with someone, how can you authorise that? Also by experience the people who try to be 'qualified' by learning all the right words are usually the people who don't 'get' the Dharma. Case in point Dhammarato talked about noble qualities and has a 'correct' lineage but you and Danial displayed the noble qualities of listening without interrupting and being open to debate not just preaching. It's clear in the interview that I would rather follow up with you and Daniel to learn more but if we took it on authority it would be Dhammarato I would have to see. The answer is very simple 'listen to your heart' but our deepening objectification drives people crazy trying to format the unformatable.

@user-fg3fv9hl3b 2 года назад

Very well said. Thank you. I completely agree.