If the oxygen is the limiting factor, the "all bathtime" strategy make sense. We were afraid of the lack of labor due to going twice in bathroom, but if doubling the morb production fix the oxigen problem, you can add more dupes, which is more workforce overall. And as it's an investiment that pays off every few cycles, the more the better. I love the food problem in early carnivore run, kinda like Tsiolkovsky rocket equation (fuel to put a rocket in orbit, then more fuel to put the additionnal fuel in orbit, ect) but with cooks and food. You can also save a bit of work by craming all the shinebug in there with a little drop of water on main shaft wall, so they don't get cramped. You would lose the latrine morale thou. BTW, binge eaters still respect door restriction !! (I use that in my binge eater prison in my carnivore speedruns) You can also drop the lullubied egg on the floor, it keeps the lullabied effect. Very easy to juggle when it's different type of eggs like here. I did that in an another carnivore speedrun with only one incubator and 2 set of closet of eggs door1 - door2 - automatic dispenser - eggs to lullubied door3 - door4 - automatic dispenser - eggs lullubied And play with the restriction with a rancher that is forbiden to supply the dispensers, then swap the closets, rinse and repeat. Btw i'm playing along on the same seed to beat my carnivoreAA PB (different rules thou). I even find new tricks in this run.
The main QOL addition I would love to see is a "material checkpoint" which could prevent dups from carrying some, if not all materials past. This would greatly help to isolate hot materials from being brought back into base after excavating it, and I'm sure it could have a bunch of other uses to lower the micromanagement needs.
This sounds insane but duplicants will honor your door whitelists, even if the door is open. only thing to note is that opening the door will reset the whitelist and the options are greyed out but you can still click them. You might consider it a bug but it's the only way to manage duplicant pathing without door animations.
Honestly, I suck at the game xD I struggle to keep up a regular colony, so I doubt I can give any meaningful comments on it. But I love your series. You have an awesome way of both playing AND Narrating, and I can't overstate how important the last one is for a youtube channel :D THank you for this series, I really hope to see you succeed!
When I did a similar challenge to this, I needed 3 dedicated cooks. 2 making mush bars and 1 grilling it into mush fry. I also basically needed at least 1 dupe running on the wheel full time. I'm also not sure this challange will be possible without leaving your initial biom. For me there wasn't enough water around to both do the research I needed and to make mush bars. I needed to find a water guyser to have enough. Also you need to start planning out additional pip rachnes. It takes 18 cycles for a while tree to grow enough to start to spawn branches the pips can eat. Hatches are much better (both in terms of the calories they generate and setting up ranches), but with only starting with 1, it will take a long time to get a few ranches full of hatches. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
@@Magnet_MD I had to call my wife into the office to show her I got a call out. Tell your wife she does great work. Crafty women make the world go round
For your hatch ranches you should also setup 2 doors in an upside-down L shape to keep the hatches closer to the entry door to the ranch. this will reduce the time your rancher needs to wait to groom the hatches (this works on many critters though some need a water bubble to keep them in place like pips and drekkos). Following that once the Locavore achiv. is done you can load the back end of the hatch ranch with planters or wild plant to double usable space.
What a wild ride! Enjoying this stressful series. Not sure if you noticed, but your dupes are really stressing due to your Great Hall not working (the plant is wilting, my guess is low pressure).
One thing you can do to micromanage pip planting (if you don't consider it an exploit) is to designate buildings in their area. They won't plant there and you can force them to plant tiles in a certain order to make sure they plant efficiently and plant the maximum number of wild plants. It's a little tedious, you'd need to keep on top of dupes wanting to build those buildings with priorities and door restrictions, as well as cancelling designations to make room for new plants, but in a run like this where every edge counts...
@@Magnet_MD it is, thank you. I am watching some of your other playlists and not having a problem, so I don't know if it was just me being super sensitive yesterday!! (But please don't put me to the test, lol)
Hatches have to be started _so_ early to get carnivore. Pretty sure this run is already toast. It's exponential growth, and the first few cycles are _so_ critical to reaching the point of enough food fast enough. Echo Ridge's 'Colony Restart' video in his max difficulty achievement run shows the math. It's not impossible... but just going to be incredibly hard to pull off at this point. Minor suggestions for the next run: Give dupes more bathroom breaks. High stress animations take up a lot of time, and your dupes are upset because of low air. As well as this, it will let future dupes be just a touch safer to take as you have more of at least one resource. Let dupes do their interest. You needed one dupe working on mush bars/lice loaf constantly from nearly the very start. Bubbles could have been doing that and still be in one place. And with the +8 to her cooking skill? Way better she focus on that. In a carnivore run, you need a cook who just cooks. As well as that, running on the wheel is also an athletics task, so I'm pretty sure she was slower at it. Try to be flexible in your plans. You could have gotten the incubator research before refinement and just used the lead so close to your base to build the first couple. This one is hard... Also, I wonder if the first dupe taken should be a researcher. Not too sure on this one, you might be right about the speed in which you need a rancher. Overall, you're a pretty good player. A lot of the time watching Oni, I find myself annoyed by little misplays. But you don't have too many of those! So great job, and good luck with your next run.
I'll still play this one out even if it proves to not be viable. I do think it may still be possible considering the pip eggs add a bit of variability, and it's worth the experience either way.
You can always kill most of your critters and let a binge eater consume it all. Echo never counted with someone eating huge amounts of barbeque at once, right? He did the math by not considering binge eaters.
I did it, the hardest part will be the lack of manpower to run generators to feed energy to incubators, i use clock sensors and it worked fine, but with easier difficulty. The 2x food consumption will help later but for a long time its just a nightmare.
I was thinking about the -5 athletics on the wheel... but the wheel does not have a progress bar. You are either generating the 400 watts or you are not. You can't generate 400 watts "Slowly". I realized that the wheel is the perfect job for her, as that will raise her athletics the fastest.
This has been fun to watch, thank you! I will say though that some of the artificial stuff like taking bad dupes isn't really in the spirit of the game so much. I like to see the game played well to get there.
another thing you could do is, instead of picking the 1st duplicant, is have someone who wants you to fail pick your new duplicants, so you never get what you want when you hope for it
Thanks for answering my comment (about DLC hopes). I personally really want to see some more ways to create Oxygen sustainably. Maybe a new animal that eats something, gets light, and produces algae (or slime) as waste. Just thoughts 💭 Have you ever tried using the sublimation machine to do the polluted dirt from toilets rather than morbbing the bathroom? I just feel like morbs are a form of exploit 🫤, but it is still legit game mechanics, and I respect the struggle you endure to do this 🫡
I tested with the sublimation but it doesn't put out quite enough. The Morbs scale in a way that nothing else really does that keeps power and heat low.
Isn't duper peeing their pants and just letting it offgas better than sublimation station? Last time I sterted with polluted water on the map, it was way better then using sublimation station, but that's a few months now.
Hahahaha, I am not sure honestly. I think you'd get stuck with 100% stressed dupes if you were doing that. A plumbed bathroom might work, just not sure if it's put it out in enough density to keep the pressure high enough.
Great series. Just finished watching the episode. I think your Great Hall has turned into a mess hall due to the wilted plant. This is causing the morale issue.
in case you dont want to invest in insulated tiles later on to keep the heat out, you can create a line of vacuum along the edge of the starting biome by mining out tiles diagonally. might be a bit too cheaty though, but its highly effective at the cost of being ugly or a nightmare to maintain (depending on your approach to setting it up)
You might want to get the dirt out of the hatch farm to prevent sage hatches as they will eat your dirt and could hurt your meal lice food supply down the line.
I'm not sure I have a great alternative for food right now. Stone hatches would be awesome but they are so rare since I don't have access to sandstone or sedimentary rock (since we're not allowed to leave the starter biome yet).
so my only hatch was buried in a weird angle and never came out to lay an egg and it died and with no care packages :D I like this. fifth duplicant @ cycle 17? Maybe don't stress your resources. My progress is slow too but I'm now @ 73k calories map is almost entirely dug up and cycle 98
i started my own playthrough of this challenge. i just used the polluted dirt and converted it to oxygen and used an early electrolyzer for early power. had to plan a lot to plant with pips, its tough.
I beg to differ on construction of doors underneath the outhouses. Only because how much time are you wasting with them pathing to clean them over time.
i think you should be allowed into the sand area, as it doesnt contain any new materials, and its difficult to explore anyways, with low downsides. plus, on regular oassisse, the sand is considered a variant of the starter biome, hence why it has no abyssalite, so i think since its not abyssalite walled, you should be allowed to, and it would make the first 300 cycles a lot more interesting. (incase this is adressed later in the vid, this comment was left at 6:58)
Usually there is a decent amount of the sand desert that is actually below 70C, as such it is safe for the dups to go through. There is however a fair amount of useful things in it. The Sand for one. Secondly, there are usually quite a few hatches hidden there, which may trivialize his Carnivore trial.
ah, good point, thank you for theinsight. if only you could help me in the prev vid's comment section where some guy is trying to convince me gas conducts heat faster then solid@@nolan4339
Assuming some of the first runs don’t go well some of the “exploits” may be necessary. nothing game breaking, but as long as it’s not horribly difficult to pull off it should be made available that way this series doesn’t turn into: 1/100000000 jackpot run.
How can you give a speed bonus to generating 400 watts? 1 watt = 1 joule per second. 400 watts = 400 joules per second. You can't generate 400 watts faster than ... 400 watts, otherwise it would be 450 or 500 watts.
@@woodenleagueheroesLegends Sorry, but you clearly don't under that a watt is a measurement of power over time. Saying you will generate 400 watts faster is like saying you will drive your car at 50 miles per hour faster... If you go faster than 50 mph... you will be going 51 or 52 mph. You won't be going 50mph anymore. A light will do absolutely nothing to someone who is running on a wheel... it only speeds up activities with a progress bar. Um... plus a light is 10 watts not 5.
@@MoriShep massage tables don't use that much power, and having dupe spend some time running on a wheel is no where near as bad as a binge eater eating everything
@@Magnet_MD extra sleep blocks don't decrease stress as far as I know, extra downtime blocks do increase moral, which can reduce stress. However spending time running on the wheel wastes less working time than adding enough downtime to make a significant difference.
Interesting question... Massage table = 240 watts... over half of a manual generator. Relieves 30% stress / cycle (60% in massage clinic). Assuming a clinic... Taking his dupe from 90% stress to 60% will take half a cycle. That means the colony loses 0.75 man days (0.5 for the dupe on the massage table and 0.25 for the dupe on the wheel) for 1 dupe to lose 30% stress. The real question is how much stress do they lose while they are asleep, and how much of the day does it take. Also, how quickly does it build? One thing I am not sure on... what if you sent them to the massage clinic just before bed, and took them out after sleep? Would they get the stress reduction from sleeping AND form the massage clinic? I am thinking this might be the best way to go... that way you only lose 0.25 man days per 30% stress (the time on the wheel).
also, if you wanted to be able to add more cuts, you could stream, so if people wanted to see the full process, they could tune in. if you ever do some streams ill definity pop in
Noob question: does the planet mirth leaf seed in the break room break the "no planting things" rule? Because I remember hearing something a few episodes ago of "we can't plant ANYTHING the pips have to do it"
Planting in a decorative planter doesn't invalidate the achievement, so that should be fine. It's specifically planting in a farm tile, hydroponic tile or a planter box.
10:00 couldn't agree more. Devs should focus on removing the exploits and "bugs" to make the game difficult but not requiring the knowledge of how to exploit the stuff. Yes it will piss some people off, granted. I don't mind this being a exploit free game mode. I kind of wish I have never watched some tips videos. Knowing all these "tricks" lowkey ruined the game for me.
Can you load from the esc menu? If so, does it have to be loaded from the main menu to reset the toilets/morbs? Might save time if you don’t have to go back to the main menu every time
it will probably quite a while before there is enough positive decor around for the mess to negate. I don't think you really go negative with decor. You just get reductions to any possible positives.
I’m curious whether you have deliberately left the hand basin to be used in both directions or whether it is an oversight? Given the level of optimisation it seems unnecessary for the dupes to wash on the way in to the bathroom. Or is it perhaps disabled?
@@Magnet_MD awesome! Maybe you said earlier, but it was niggling me 😄 The series is super impressive. I've played for quite a few years, but you are teaching me details I've never even thought about. Good luck wiith the run - and if you don't make it then try again - this is fascinating!
I'm not that familiar with the game, but i know that you can improve the mood of your duplicates by decorating the place... How hard is it to make some art pieces and decor?
Decor would help a little bit, but I don't think I can justify the duplicant time it would take to tidy up at this point. We are scrapping for survival!
according to the wiki, morbs make less oxygen when you're running on higher speeds (1/2 at 2 speed and 1/3 at 3 speed). I wonder if there's a mod which fixes this, as this really sucks for actually playing with morbs as oxygen producers.
Never let your dupes get too high of a stress value, especially those that binge eat. You need to create another schedule tab and name it "SLEEP" here just put all slots to Bedtime. Put the stressed dupe in comatose. He's out of service in my opinion.
Couldn't you set the schedule to 2 free time followed by 3 sleep time slots? The free time will allow the dupes to deal with any of their needs, and as far as I'm aware, dupes will sleep till they no longer require any sleep whether they wake up still in the sleep time slot or work time slot. You could also stagger the dupes schedule in groups of 3-4 so that they all aren't needing to bathroom & eating at the same time
I've found more success having them sleep and eat at the same time than otherwise, at least in these small numbers. I'm not sure exactly why, but when distributing schedules with only a few duplicants, I feel like I catch them doing things that aren't very useful when there are only a few others awake. Charging batteries that nobody needs is a good example.
having everyone on one schedule with only one bathroom is bound to have someone peeing on the floor. i would suggest not having more than 2 dupes in a shift per working bathroom.
Why can't you just use oxygenators and algae terrariums for making oxygen? Is it an achievement to not use them or something? (Sorry, I'm new to the game so I haven't done much looking at the achievements.)
I am not sure how you would get out incubators by cycle 5 with so much you need to do to survirve when you can´t just throw down oxygen defuser and call it a day. Feels like you have to get so much down to not die a little later in the game. Also what good would it do to get it down that early when your dubes can´t tame the hatch till later since no fishing for a rancher early. they have to get 2 skill points in before you can start taming the damn hatch :P
Yeah, the earliest you can get any ranching started is like cycle 14 or so, and it needs to be with your 4th duplicant because they'll get their 2nd skill before any of the 3 starter dupes. So, theoretically that is the quickest you could get an egg incubating, but the hatch would also need to cooperate and spawn with an age that already put it close to laying an egg. I still think we can make this work, even with the rough start.
@@Magnet_MD I hope you can manage tho I think you need atleast 13 pip planted oxyferns, that would be enough oxygen for 1 dube. Then you need like 30 Morphs for 3 dubes, then have some bottled polluted water off gass as the last oxygen. For the food, yeah Im curious to see what you do but mush bars for 5 dubes you need 12,5 per day less if you fry it. But yeah, food and oxygen is a tight balance in the start. I think 2 dubes that fast is taxing your oxygen too hard, maybe it will help on the mush bar production tho. But curious to see if you manage to stay alive at cycle 35 for next episode... Good luck :D Tho the math for this run put it close to mission impossible but maybe I underestemate the power of morph farts.
@@Magnet_MD Well, if you got super lucky, a dup can start with the ranching skill trait, and then you use your 4th dup to immediately get advanced researching. When that happens it can be possible to start ranching at around cycle 5.
I think it is, because people have told me they did it without morbs. If I were to try it again, I'd probably use outhouses and polluted dirt for oxygen, and having multiple bathroom trips per day, then it'd just be a matter of not running out of dirt and not taking too many duplicants.
I know incubators waste a lot o power, but isn't that worth it? I see it like the more animals I incubate the more meat I get ASAP, I know I can just put the eggs in some drowning chamber or so, but that takes a long time, the incubators get you the meat fast, What do you guys think? Am I seeing this the wrong way?
We need to increase the number of critters that can lay eggs, and the incubator is only on for a portion of the time that the buff is active. We will need to get up around 20 hatches all laying eggs to have a chance at getting the achievement, so that's the first priority!
I know I've been sarcastic in the past, but this is a serious question. You talked about "Less exploity", and I have often thought about what is and what is not an exploit in the game. I am curious on your thoughts... - Liquid Lock? V? Blob? Stacked? 3 Stacked (so they don't get wet)? - Rodriguez like SPOM (not using in game filters to separate H and O2)? - Infinite Liquid / Gas Storage? - Hydra like SPOM (using different in game physics to separate H and O2, but giving infinite storage to both). - Petroleum boiler? - Sour Gas Boiler? - Doors as a Gas Crusher? - Counter flow heat exchangers? - Horizontal doors to enable / disable buildings. (You are in favor of that one I believe) - Using a pipe element sensor and shutoff instead of a filter? (10w instead of 120w) - What about "Mechanical" filters using looping gasses and bridges to filter those from a line for no power? - Storage bins vs "Infinite" storage from Auto Dispensers? - Liquid falling through 2 different gasses to allow 0 cost, gravity fed infinite storage of geysers? - Melting the steel walls of a Space Module to build a bigger one? - What about mods? BuildOverPlants? Chain Deconstruct? PipedElectrolizers? Each item in that list have been mentioned in YT comments, or stated by streamers as all being an "Exploit" or "Not as intended", while others have embraced them. I LOVED Francis John's JumboRockets. Ultimately I concluded that it's a great big sandbox that has prompted thousands of wonderful inventions and discoveries. Was a modern Petroleum boiler "Intended" by the devs??? If not, then why does the oil change to petroleum with heat? Was a Liquid Lock intended? Who really knows, but they are part of the game. Use the mechanics you want, ignore those you don't want. Just realize, those horizontal doors automating the Outhouses are a HUGE Exploit in someone's eyes.
Using different ways to reach the same mechanics is not an exploit as long as it's realistic and logical. Like using physics instead of filters is not an exploit but an invention.
I am actually considering making a series on these and talking about what I would define as an exploit vs not an exploit, how to use each of them if you want to, etc. Generally I will just trend toward what I think is the most fun and as intended by the design of the game, and I'm usually a little disappointed when a solution like that invalidates a bunch of the rest of the design, so I'll steer away from it. Infinite storage of liquids especially is one that I can't really get behind because the volume of liquid you store is supposed to have some kind of push-back when it comes to space, and it makes the pressure restrictions on vents kind of pointless if you can just get around it. I consider morb spawning a bug because it happens 2 cycles after the outhouse is full, but doesn't continue to happen for... whatever reason, but it will happen organically if you coincidentally stop playing the game and come back. Setting a number of morbs an outhouse could ever spawn would be a really easy bug fix, so if it was intended to only ever spawn 1, that seems really simple to do. The way they have it working now, I feel like it was supposed to continue to spawn morbs, but it didn't, and they never fixed it.
Re: liquid locks: check the launch trailer for ONI, right here on youtube on the Klei Entertainment channel. You'll see various liquid locks. Also, visco-gel exists. Playing without liquid locks is a fair challenge. Believing that they are an "exploit" in the sense that the devs would remove them if they could, or that using them is "morally wrong" in some way, is the mark of a lunatic. The same goes for pretty much everything on your list; people objecting to rodriguez/hydra/infinite storage/door compressors/escher waterfalls/bead pumps do not understand how they work (it's all the exact same mechanic, element displacement on creation, and the only alternative to that mechanic is wholesale mass deletion everywhere). "Forced bin storage" was tried by Klei and rejected for making gameplay less fun. Mechanical filters are just "one element per tile". The only thing I could conceivably still see patched in the future is spacefarer melting, but that is really hard to do, and there's a mod to make the walls regularly deconstructable anyway. Dev time would be better spent giving players even more options. Does everyone have to use these mechanics? Of course not. Should anyone be chided for using them? Of course not. It's a single-player game without leaaderboards, and mods don't disable achievements. Trying to police others' playstyle in a game like that is a very bad look, to say the least.
@@Magnet_MDI'd never even consider restarting the game to spawn a behavior. That is way exploity IMO. The counter argument to yours (from a programmer's perspective). We only want an outhouse to spawn one morb. Great, that's how it works, unfortunately, that state is reset when the game restarts, or the outhouse is dis/enabled. We really only want 1, but adding those extra checks and the additional state isn't worth it since so few people use Morbs. You can argue either side, and nobody but the devs know which is correct. You don't have to justify anything... you do what you want... I just find it interesting that you feel that your changing the state of the outhouse is fixing or rectifying a bug, instead of activating an exploit to spawn extra morbs. (2 sides of the same coin)
"I don't want to dig vacuum holes to block the heat because I want to play it as it was intended... Oh wait, I need to jot down when my morb spawned, so I can save and exit the game to get another one to spawn." so silly.
he said earlier he does the morbs because he thought it was a bug that it only worked when saving and quitting. i mean, hes kinda right, otherwise they would work per outhouse. but they work every 2 cycles, but its like a bug where it doesnt work
@@Ethan54006 I heard that too... Sure, saying you think it is a bug is as good a reason as any to jump through hoops to prompt a behavior that is not by default. In my eyes, I see having to restart the game to trigger a behavior is more exploity than a Hydra with infinite gas storage, because the hydra just works... I don't need to restart the game to trigger the behavior. Anyhow, it was just an interesting observation... that one intended behavior (that vacuum does not conduct heat) is not as intended (just because Brothgar and the original's didn't think of it), and that restarting the game to spawn a morb every 2 days is as intended. Seems like a direct contradiction to me. It's his video, his rules. I do wish he'd said "Vacuum would work, but I want to do Insulated tiles." No need for the whole "As intended" part. I keep hearing all kinds of people saying what was and was not intended (often contradicting each other)... I never see any citations however.
@@TeracomConsulting huh, fair ig. i think i just find it weird the way the morbs work, because if they wanted them to be non renewable, they wouldve made it per outhouse built, but he said he will be resetting them with mechanical doors later. but yes, i am with you, i think the reason he is opposed to vacuum is because it removes a lot of the challenge, also, its kinda weird that the dupes can dig it diagonally to create vacuum
Need a Morb/mutant squid cooking recipe haha. I can imagine them taking it to the grill alive and either slicing it up or forcefully pressing it onto the grill.
Do the dupes go to nature reserves when they miss the buff, or you do have to "force" them through? I saw your dude choose the long route, was that just lucky, or do they actually choose to?
![[Ep4] The Early Incubator Rush - Ultra Supreme Max Difficulty](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
