EPIC CNC upgrade - final episode. Unreal surface finish on commercial products, straight from cnc. 

wow! Thanks :D you kinda made me speechless, I don't know how to respond :D

@@PiotrFoxWysocki Congrat! I think thats the best compliment one could have :D

Agree 100% 😉

I bet. You must have feel like child in the lego factory 😉 soooo many cool things to see. How did you manage to get in ??

@@PiotrFoxWysocki I did some virtual reality work for them, but every year they open their factory for a few days to the public, so everyone can get guided tours. Their machines are very present in tool making (and repairing) for injection molding, where the surface finish will basically get mirrored into the plastic parts. Their largest machines like the DMU 600 Gantry, which you could also see in production are basically just very big garages (machining volume 18x2.8x2.5m) where you can walk right into.

on one hand i like New Zealand but on the other hand it sucks to be soo far from civilisation

@@PiotrFoxWysocki Oh, you're a Kiwi. Well, you live on a beautiful island, and since the invention of the Internet, the world has shrunk considerably, so I guess it's not too bad.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki Today, DMG Mori opened their "Open House 2022", so if you head over to their channel, they have some new videos. PS: the blonde one was my contact when I did work for them a few years ago.

hahaha :D i hope you are still married ?? :D

@@PiotrFoxWysocki 😋👍

I just made it so precise and rigid so after machining I don't have to do any surface finishing. No deburring, sanding, filing, polishing, tumbling, sandblasting to cover the tool marks. Imagine the amount of time you save, money and space as well, as tumblers, sandblasting cabinets take space and money to run them. Or even you don't need to hire people who will deal with surface finish. In my opinion all the cnc machines should be good enough so you don't have to fix job after them. Or just maybe my standards are unreasonable 😉 Precision is a side effect of surface finish 😉 but precision is nice to have when you need it.

hey, thanks :) best of luck on your new project ;)

I know :D im contemplating making some detailed videos about it but i would need a lot of time as the process takes quite a while, and it would be cool to show what to do and what not and why.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki I would love to see a video on that. My anodizing is very inconsistent despite meticulously keeping track of the variables.

maybe i will be able to help right now ;) possible problems: 1) poor electrical contact 2) you are not ramping up current or voltage when you put the part in to anodizing. you have to increase voltage/ current slowly to the final amount. it takes me 2 -5 min 3) temperature of the anodizing bath. it has to be the same to 1 or 2 deg C. optimal 19deg C 4) dye temperature 50-60 deg C 5) if you do a black color you have to keep it anodizing for 2h im using 1.2A for every 1000mm2 of surface area. now im thinking that i really should make this video because there is soo much to cover. but because there is soo much to cover i don't know where to start :) anodizing is a simple process yet very sensitive on any variable. took me years to get this right each time.

thanks, I'm glad you like it :)

Thank you very much!

i guess you know me, when i see some microns out of alignment i have to move them back :) tram is a bit annoying because its temperature related, cold machine is off, but when it warms up its with in 0-2 microns when it gets above that I'm tramming it back in to 0.

Thank you so much 😀

why wait ? :D

Hi John. I already envy you the shed 😉 I'm considering moving in to some more remote and spacious place so I cam expand in all directions. Good luck with your builds

problem with action is that you can not see much. you see stock in the vice, than the Niagara falls, after that part is done :D i made this machine very unphotogenic :)

if i have something interesting to share and time to share i share :D

I'm glad you like it :)

Thank you very much!

Thanks 😉

Thank you! Cheers!

Haha thanks 😊

and you are my favourite viewer :)

Thanks 😊

I know :D it does feel familiar :D

good luck with the build, i guess its good to start with cheap stuff and learn on it. you can always upgrade later on

Thank you. 😊 glad you like it.

Sounds great!

Thank you! your pick and place machine looks amazing from what i saw :)

Thanks, will do!

@@PiotrFoxWysocki I would be interested in seeing how you actually get that amazing anodized finish. How you keep the piece clean etc etc

@@grandmastersreaction1267 i showed the process here ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bayPkLSqmrY.html with the difference that in the recent video i was anodizing it in 20 dec C, everything else stay more or less the same

Thank you very much! but disappointing people was my last intention, i just wanted to show how far you can push diy cnc. and what is possible.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki don't worry, maybe disappointing is a little bit of a wrong word in this case. I was just flashed by your parts, and how perfect they are.

Thank you kindly

Thank you 😊 my face doesn't shine as much on the video as after making those parts. Each time I'm surprised how nice the things turn out.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki difficult making it better, don´t want to make a mess with my comment, but, well, is it not amazing achieving these results using the most common and usual materials as people used thousands of years ago...lots of food for thought with you guys of the granite lathes ;) thinking of the stuffs they were able to do in the past, hard not to think they achieved the same aknowledgment for working with stones, almost as today, or more......I will stop there ;) hehheh back to the future past -- loving it, you will fly high )) - congratulations

I do all. Electronics and programing. But for pcbs. I use jcb. It's much cheaper and quicker also better than me doing it all from scratch.

thanks :D

hey :) thanks :) cmon. i know a guy near you, who could do that! you guessed it, it is you :D if i was able to do that you can do it as well :)

glad you like it, i was surprised as well, especially when i was trying to explain on the example of camera splitter that operations on this part are very simple. im guessing the problem for them was the top side where connectors are placed. because this has to be faced. im sure they dont use PCD inserts, just carbide ones. which usually leaves subtle tool marks and smudges. normally its removed by sandblasting but it would show up if you put it straight in to anodizing. beside they just want to make stuff quick and easy. i guess this one was looking like too much hassle

:D dzieki :D prowadnice na osi Y sa ustawione w poziomie ponizej 2 mikronow. os X tak samo jak dobrze pamietam, a os Z w granicy 1 mikrona gora dol prawo lewo przod tyl. ground ballscrews chyba precyzja jest okolo 16 mikronow na metr. zakladanie linialow mija sie chyba z celem. polecam obejzec inne filmiki :D

i guess you have to feel good with what you do :) Machine doesn't favour what side is machining it does all of them the same way. i have add bevels here and there so no cables inside will ever get rubbed against the sharp edge and short. other reason is to limit amounts of cuts on my hands assembling it. another point is anodizing. anodizing doesn't work on sharp edges. and finally if i wouldnt put a bevel on the edges i couldn't call it finished part :D kinda funny how every edge can tell the different story :)

ALSO, you can easily put SMALLRIG out of business. Just based on the quality/feel/aesthetics of your product, 100% sure you'd tear them apart at the same price point, maybe even higher What glass did you shoot that 10-camera rig on?

hey :) thank you, i appreciate it a lot :D

you can not beat the price of small rig. not living in New Zealand where cost of living is just astronomical in comparison to China. but i have to make some clamps my self for the turntable rig, and yes they do look quite incredible :) the picture i shot on canon eos 7d f/18 1/250s iso200 on a 70-200 2.8 Is L II lens

thanks ;)

Thank you ;)

Thanks!

Very true!

od pana to sie odzwyczailem na wyjezdzie :) naprawde nie ma potrzeby :) rzadko bo troche mam roznych zajec, a z drugiej strony nie bede klepac pustych filmikow o niczym jak nie mam nic interesujacego do przekazania. dziekuje za komplementy :D i pozdrawiam z NZ ;)

thank you ;)

dzieki :D

Thanks 😊 laser fusion machine sounds really interesting. The parts I have shown in this video where faced with diamond pcd inserts and sides where done with regular carbide endmills.

Thanks 😊 laser fusion machine sounds really interesting. What will be the thesis of your PhD? I have used pcd ( diamond ) inserts to mill the top and the bottom sides of the parts in the video. Sided where done with regular carbide endmills.

haha :D i guess i should by then the prices would be just as high as the other brands. and at the end i wouldn't be sharing perhaps valuable information's for other people who would like to make their own machines.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki Absolutely after your inspiration I also have a DIY CNC . This idea also came to mind to build cnc using granite as it's very stiff. But it's very difficult so I built mine with aluminium.🥰

Actually I was considering using aluminium but to make a cnc machine I would need a cnc machine to mill things flat. And I would inherit all the imperfections of the machine which was milling it. That's why I went with granite 😉 something I could do without using big machines

Where?? 😉

Thanks ;) yes it's the same old JGL spindle 😉

Hey Craig, I buy I most of my endmills from carbidenz, they deliver stuff next day.

thanks:) im glad you like it so much :) basic hardware wise, yes same stuff as in top line cnc machines. software wise, and you pointed datron, nothing to compare. im using fusion 360 and mach3. the end :) datron has its own operating system with more blows and whistles than components in the whole machine including screws :D I'm not sure how to answer on to this question.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki Yes, the software for the Datron machines is quite amazing, but, thinking about it a bit more, the finish you achieve really speaks for itself!

Well.. I made my machine just for best surface finish. With minimal amout of features. Absolutely bare minimum mechanically with some features easing the operating it. Like: spindle speed control attached to the tool number. Tool library. Automatic air pressure to the spindle. Tool holder eject button, auto touch probe. Self clean button in mach3. Flood coolant and this would be all really. Without the tool changer the machine is not very friendly in mass production. But with the amount of tools I have dathron wont be that much more friendly, as as far I know it's more a prototyping machine. For production you really need machine which can take 50 tools. Otherwise you will have to change tools according to the part you milling. I would find it really annoying. If you need a machine for work I would recommend to buy already made one. You just won't have enough hours in your life fo make commercial machine with so many features, software and all the fail-safe protocols. I would recommend to buy something from the company with many years of experience in cnc machines and hundreds of experts working 5 day weeks to make it better for years. Even if the finish quality might not be the same, it will outperform in speed.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki We say-Don't try to re-invent the wheel. That being said, well done achieving such incredible performance from yours!

ciesze sie ze sie podobalo :)

I do. And I did run it on vices once. Since I mill mostly alumi I'm there is no need to keep doing it over and over.

Some time ago I was thinking about making phone cases but there is soo many phone models and they change phone designs twice a year. So I thought it's way too much hassle 😉

thanks:) yes its the same spindle. its still going, and its going fine :)

thank you for the idea. i will try to put coated and uncoated endmills under the microscope, maybe i will be able to see some difference. if you could talk with someone at your company to send a best finishing endmill for testing that would be super awesome :) but i doubt that any company would voluntarily put their tools under such scrutiny I will go through.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki I will ask the guys from marketing, we will see :-) what diameter and lc did you planed?

I would go for 8 -10mm so it doesn't flex too much. But I'm open for whatever suggestions as long this tool will produce the best possible finish on aluminum.

No i haven't. i guess i would tried them if i would live in the US.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki i believe YG-1 is south Korea

brother in arms :D problem with used machines is that they are used. and you never know what you get and what will fail. and there is no guaranteed the finish will be better. i was considering it for a while. im planning anodizing series for 3 years now, but it takes quite long time to shoot. so it feels like to much work. not sure is one of the answers will help you to get black color. 1) poor electrical contact 2) you are not ramping up current or voltage when you put the part in to anodizing. you have to increase voltage/ current slowly to the final amount. it takes me 2 -5 min 3) temperature of the anodizing bath. it has to be the same to 1 or 2 deg C. optimal 19deg C 4) dye temperature 50-60 deg C 5) if you do a black color you have to keep it anodizing for 2h im using 1.2A for every 1000mm2 of surface area.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki thanks for the info!!! The mori m1 is a new machine, Ballin vmc for 50.000$. It's a crazy deal and an awesome machine. Second hand is cool but a lot of work just like you're saying! Ill try following your tips and I'm sure it'll be better. My approach was just 30 mins or something like that. Last question, what dye do you use? Thanks man!

50 k would be for absolute minimum, I'm guessing? I was looking at haas minimill 27k. By the time you add al the bits it's 70k. I get my dye from my Chinese friends 😉 don't remember which one. I bought stock for 4 years

@@PiotrFoxWysocki yeah it's just the machine, ofc there's tooling and stuff but for such a brand I wouldn't hesitate if I had to buy a cnc. Good luck with your stuff! Also, get some 100w led chips. They cost like 15$ with 97 cri and need a pretty small heatsink if you're crafty. I've got a basic design in the works, beatiful lighting and super cheap.

Maybe it's a mistake ? Because it doesn't make sense

i have used the cheapest face mill i have seen, PCD inserts speed 5k rpm feed 350mm/min max 500mm/min but those values might be different for different machines tools and other variables about which i will be talking in the further videos.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thanks! I'm getting the Langmuir systems MR1 mill in a couple months. It's half the price of a tormach! I love your little granite machine. Reminds of the little DMG mori that Adam the machinist has.

Congratulations on the buy. I have looked at Adam's mori and that thing is tiny. Wondering where you find similarities 😉 Mine has 660mm x 370mm x 200mm work area.

Those inserts would be the stainless steel countersunk screws ;) I wanted to keep more of a industrial look

im thinking if i should build a lathe or just put 4th axis in to the cnc

Yes it's a fiber laser

Piotr Fox Wysocki thank you for your reply, 20W ?

I guess 20 would do it but I have 50w

im not sure how much i have spent on it but something around 10-15k. thanks for the inside about the endmills, it does make sense and it kinda confirm my observations.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki That's actually a really good price for a machine that can effectively use mcd tooling. The tooling i use on my 6040 comes from XUHAN Store on ali. I have taken some absurd cuts and only chipped a flute. Have you tried alcohol mql on aluminum? Works really good. I will add Guhring are really really nice. their polished variable flute endmills are amazing but 4-5 X the price

Yes aluminium sticks to everything like a butter to the knife. Best finish I have noticed was with isopropyl. It breaks surface tension and let the chips to fly away. Otherwise they get dragged back under toe insert and smear

@@PiotrFoxWysocki I understood that the evaporation cooling on the endmill and part plays and big roll in that as well. The chips come off dry that's why they don't stick to things. pretty neat. I'm curious why did you go with such massive linear rails? They must be 7x safety factor .

why massive rails? 3 reasons, 1 because i found them cheap :) 2 more rigidity, so the rails or carriages are not flexing. 3 i have theory behind manufacturing of those parts. all the rails are roller guides, so they use cylinders instead of balls as bearings. its easier to make precise cylinder than a sphere. and when you have manufacturing tolerance on small cylinder of 1micron the came tolerance on bigger cylinder will be proportionally smaller, resulting on much smaller effect on the overall precision of the final rail. i hope I make sense :D

Good question. My machine is mostly granite. Base sides and gantry. So there is not much to expand or shrink. Only the rails which are attached to the gantry and sides. But let's talk about the gantry because it is the longest being 1meter. Maximum temperature difference I have is 20 deg at the time. The lowest is 10 deg. And the highest 30(summer, never reached it inside the cnc). I mill around 20 deg C. So 1 meter of gantry expands: Steel from 1000mm to 1000.26mm Granite from 1000mm to 1000.158mm Difference will be 0.102mm at extreme. Because I live in New Zealand we don't have winters here and my workshop doesn't have much of temperature variation. So in my case it would be mostly about 0.05mm over 1 meter. Unknown factor would be how much Granite prevents rails from shrinking and stretching. I'm guessing it will be some amount. The biggest difference which I notices would be in my z axis which is made out of aluminium with steel spindle clamped in 2 places. It does deflect a bit. To the point you can see in the finish. But it only happen when it's cold. Once is at about 20 deg it's all good. I was assembling and setting up rails in about 20 deg environment. So machine is made to operate at this temperature. if you live in the climate with extreme weather conditions from summer to winter. Like in Poland for example 😉 Where temperature inside of a garage might vary from -15 to 30 which is 45 deg then steel expands by 0.585mm. If you consider that the granite expands by 0.355 so the difference will be 0.23mm over 1m If you add that Granite will hold some of it. And it will bend to compensate. 1m of 50mm Granite bends about 0.002 mm under 20kg load. So it will bow a bit. Doing the calculations in my head It kinda feels on the edge. Perhaps rails would break the friction between Granite and shrink bit letting Granite to go back to the original form emitting loud bang. I'm guessing this would had to be tested. Considering you will assembly it in the environment temperature of 20 deg minimum value should be smaller. One thing which I would try to avoid would be to make a Granite base and steel or what might be worse aluminium gantry. Aluminium would shrink by 1mm possibly pulling Granite sides ofcourse all depends on the mass of the aluminium if it's a solid piece then I'm almost sure it would cause some damage. If it would be an extrusion and Granite would be much more massive to withstand the force of shrinking aluminium then the aluminium would change its diameter and when all would go back to higher temperatures it would bow. Hmmm.... I'm not sure if this thought experiment was any helpful or answer your question in any way 😉

@@PiotrFoxWysocki If one doesn't have a temperature-controlled workshop, one could make an enclosure with some kind of heating.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki thanks a bunch for such a detailed answer. I did some small math on this and yeah, I used a bit higher difference in the temperature. My workshop is in Germany now and it's heated, so I doubt that it will go to the extremes, but I imagine a 20 degrees of difference could be a thing if you don't use AC. Of course if you have temperature controlled shop the issues would be lower still (although I'm not sure how much could the rails heat up from usage? probably not much, but no idea). but even with small differences I'm wondering how it will behave over time. 5 hundreds is not much, but I'm wondering if it can weaken the epoxy over time. I'm guessing probably not, but I'd be curious to hear an update after using the machine for a longer time. I'm interested in this kind of stuff as I would also like to attempt at building a precision lathe and/or milling machine, but I was thinking about air bearings because of the temperature expansion problems. And then I was actually thinking about using lapped or scraped cast iron for everything to decrease the weight. That said I have no idea how hard it would be to do it. I have scrapers and I can do it pretty accurately so my thinking is that after getting the surface geometrically correct I could either scrape it for coverage or lap it with a cast iron lap. My thinking was that cast iron is sometimes scraped to form air tight seals, so it might also work for air bearings? But I haven't seen anything like that, so hard to say 😅 Another thing I'm not yet sure about is the maximum pressure that air bearings can withstand, but if air bearings would be not for the task I guess I could also try with hydrostatic/hydrodynamic bearings. But first I need to get my workshop in order, so all of this will probably wait a bit.

Is this suppose to be something useful or just a science experiment?

@@PiotrFoxWysocki eventually I want i to be used to help me build precision tooling and prototyping

by Chinese green power milling head you mean blue face mill ? :D the one I was holding in hand on the video or the one i was using to mill cover ? or you talking about something else ?

@@PiotrFoxWysocki the one that you attached a belt to and driven it using spindle. From other video

That was a bosh drill press ;) I rotated the drill 180deg to grind side walls. I saw one guy was using angle grinder on on some frame.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki no not in this video. The power head milling bt30 from AliExpress. Lol sorry I mistaken you with other RU-vidr thechipwelder 😂

lol, this would explain quite a lot :D

Watch the video to the end 😉

i have used the cheapest face mill i have seen, speed 5k rpm feed 350mm/min max 500mm/min but those values might be different for different machines tools and other variables about which i will be talking in the further videos.

@Scott Dimelow wise words from a wise man :D

@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thanks for the information! I noticed you have a 400R face mill but also an KM12 face mill, do you notice any surface finish difference between the two for you?

I like the 400. Km12 finish is not as good. Not sure if its the shell or the inserts.

I'd does have second clamp much higher. But this is a another can of worms.

Could you plumb in a compressed air line into your liquid coolant feed manifold. Then you could pulse some air after your coolant stops. You can see your part without opening the door. Or secondly, just do a air cleaning program after your production run. You just come back to a totally clean work space.

I use 9000l/h flood coolant. It washes everything away without blowing chips all over the machine. For the videos I'm turning it off so there is something too look at. Otherwise it's all covered.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki You are the expert! Recently found your channel. Keep up the great work.

Thank you 😊 but I would never call my self an expert 😉

cheap and good? in my opinion one or the other. material remove rate? for 3mm end mill? bugger all, so to get more you will have to increase rpm. rigidity of the machine not over the top because you can not put much force on the endmill anyway. bigger endmills bigger machines. steel tubes, it will ring like crazy causing chatter. i guess you can extrapolate from here.

haha :D you haven't watched the video to the end? i have couple of other ideas, so no worries :)

@@PiotrFoxWysocki I'm working to improve my ADD 😆

Haha 😄

dzien dobry :D

problem with my machine is the amount of coolant its pumping. you can't see much

@@PiotrFoxWysocki true, it will be for people who have a little bit of imagination, do have some, lol. A starting point, a pass and some intermediate stage or something like that - when you chabge the tools, or turn the blanks the other side - can be good as well Doing some test blanks parts and measuring stuff etc. So there still place for some action. Finished products are great, but also it would be nice to see you brag about your workhorse and show it run. I like that microscope idea would be interesting to see as well. Idk it may be a bit different side of things, but if you get on microscope side and wanna see the difference, then it possible that you can get some scanning microscope for yourself. I'm writing it from a mobile now and fear if I switch that stupid youtube app the comment will go, but take look at Breaking taps channel(if I get its name rigth, hope) he was using some mems(micro electronic something) device which is a small scanning microscope. I imagine it can be absolute winner in a sense to check the surface finish details and such. The heads are expendable but for micron submicron resolution it should last for some time(the thing degrades in its resolution capacities from nanometers to more human related resolutions) and they were something like 100 buck a piece - and in my opinion for what they do - it a bargain. A stand there is some precision small table, not sure what is as its price goes, but should not be a space price tag. But quite certain the thing can help dive in the details of surface finish, and get objective data to see the difference if there is one - what is what and which finish is better. I pray you get fancy of this idea and show it to us and that it works for the application(it should but not 100% sure). To my knowledge it would be a firsts case of using it for a machining channel, to see things which we could not before it.

@@PiotrFoxWysocki a video of Breaking Taps I talking anout is this one - "Tapping on atoms with a (very) sharp stick - Atomic Force Microscopy" , the microscope site in the desc of that video(have some problems posting the comment, let's try to avoid limks) , I guess they still may care about promoting themselfs, so you identity may matter, so as machining field may matter.(for discounts or maybe priorities) I really would like to the the thing to be brougth to machining diy field, I think it may shine here, at least to shed some ligth to previously unseen corners.

Dear lord ;) you wrote this whole thing on the phone ;) your determination to see this next video must be sky high 😀 I have seen this breaking taps video. Really cool toy. I even checked their website for the price, but if they don't put the prices the actual price will be obscene. I dont think whey will be giving those microscopes to every youtuber.. So I have no hope here. I have made confocal microscope to investigate metal parts. Check my instagram. I went with some ridiculous magnification but too close is too close and you don't know what you are looking at. So zooming out makes much more sense to see the tool marks. It will make sense, no worries 😉

@@PiotrFoxWysocki sky high - yes it is, yes it is, lol My expirience(not a rich one but some) with those sites/companies it quite useless to browse their sites and it needs emailing and such and based on their internal policies they will talk, even if they may have guesses/certainy that I'm not their future client. But I guess you know that stuff better than me, it just that I was interested let you know that such a device is an option, and that you know it already is good. Cutting edges of tools also can be scanned, and field isn't that small, and sure with a combination with regular optics it makes even more sense, not a replacement, so as stacking optics shots for depth of focus (how people do macro shots of insects and such) is quite capable approach as well, so there may be no need for scanning and all that, it just a tool to go to the end of rabbit hole, I mean there is not much left beyond what it can do, lol. But okay, it good you know, will take look at instagram, and waiting for videos for sure))

I'm not sure :)

winstar

@@PiotrFoxWysocki many thanks!

@@PiotrFoxWysocki did you buy directly from them or through aliexpress/alibaba? I just don't have any luck with companies responding to emails...

I buy from local distributor. Carbidenz but if you want to buy directly here is the email to the sales rep: daveylin@winstarcutting.com

sorry, i put mic on the wrong setting :(

@@PiotrFoxWysocki btw love your content! keep it up! love from malaysia :)

Thanks 😊 Greetings from New Zealand 🇳🇿