To be fair, not everyone is a machinist. This is a niche topic and I bet half my ass even some people of the same profession/hobby as him would find this tedious as a subject for a video to watch. But hey, I watched it!
Wow! I thought I was crazy for spending months taking a thousand photos with 30+ different end mills on 3 different CNC mills all in the name of finish quality on 6061. There is a lot of bad information when it comes to surface finish. I love that you share behind the scenes of Swiss quality level work.
hahaha :) good to know there are other crazy people around :) I seriously thought its only me who cares so much for the surface finish. thanks for the comment!
@@PiotrFoxWysocki if you can dial it in on the machine, you can spare yourself any additional polishing by hand, lets face it, no one really likes to do that.
Aftet 12 years of being looking for a channel like the yours, I found you!!! Thank you so much for this REALLY IMPORTANT INFORMATION! I LOVE THE CONTAIN!!! 🤩
A very interesting video Piotr. Nice to see a deep dive into surface finishes and cutting edges. I can see you take great pride in your work. It shows up in everything that you do. Thanks for taking us along for the ride.
Nice work! Some really interesting data points on the different endmills/finishes. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Criminally underrated channel!
wow. fascinating and glorious to behold and always an absolute pleasure. just never enough! mirror finish 3d milling sounds too good, i can not wait! thank you for making these exquisite videos for us Piotr! happy to see you doing well!
Absolutely awesome. The content is fascinating and the quality of your camerawork and production has improved massively. It's just a shame that I can only click the like button once.
Extremely well done video.....the detail exposed in cutting tools is not apparent to most people who just get one out of the box and hope it cuts well.
I was one of them 😉 but it was bothering me why some endlills cut better than the other ones. I had to check and understand why, so I can move forward.
thanks. i'm trying to go proportionally to the amount of subscribers. funny you noticed it just after i basically removed my self from the video :D wondering how replacing my voice would improve production quality :D
I know in a previous video you used YG1 Alupower endmills and as I recall you were fairly impressed with these endmills. I also use these endmills and it would be very interesting to see how the grind and edge sharpness of these compare to the best of the presumably cheaper chinese endmils. With the naked eye these endmills look superb in their grind, but looks could be deceiving. Thank you for the very interesting content on your channel. Keep it up...
i think someone was recommending those but i don't remember buying them or talking about them. are you sure you haven't confuse me with someone else ? :D
Sorry then... maybe I have confused someone else's video with yours. None the less, I would love to see a comparison of top quality endmills vs chinese endmills in relation to the quality of the grind and sharpness under high magnification. Keep up the good work! 👍
It would be interesting to compare with and without cutting fluid, including isopropyl. Also would be interesting to look at flycutting, not sure if you would want to run one on that spindle. You could make a flycutter with a diamond insert, that would probably produce a great finish.
Yeah, each or at least few mills diserve to be put trough different conditions fluids, oils and such to see how it affects things, it could be a next video or a spinoff of this one after diamond ones
It does improve surface finish at some stepover, but if you go too slow it doesn't help. I guess for super shallow cuts/slow come form of oil would make more sense as tiny aluminum chips are very sticky. So something which could prevent them from smearing would work better 🤔 I would have to test it, or if someone experienced in micro machining could comment on it. That would be great 👍
Alu-power series from YG-1 Is the shiniest endmill I know of, best finish I've ever seen from and on a carbide tool. The edge seems to 'burnish' pretty quickly but they have some kind of special edge prep they do to get the thing so damn shiny.
I will get this one to do more comparisons with other endmills. Any idea where to get dathron endmills?? US store doesn't ship anywhere outside US And Canada. I did contact dathron, but they are ignoring me 😉
This is a fascinating video, I wish I had the tools to create these kinds of microscopic views on tooling like this. Just got the $50 eBay special which does an okay job of looking at things close up. Thank you for putting together such beautiful content.
One of the few videos I've ever seen which resulted in an instant subscribe & notify. I'm looking forward to seeing where your explorations take you in the future.
The "Chips" on the PCD tool aren't technically chips as you would normally think. PCD is a diamond matrix. i.e. Diamond particles in a binder. The different grades of PCD are based on the average particle size (in microns). When PCD wears, the diamond doesn't wear per se, the binder wears. When enough binder is worn at the cutting interface between the grains of diamond, the diamond particles are liberated from the edge and you are left with the gaps ("chips") you see in your photography. This is more akin to how a grinding wheel wears and will show up as an increase in Ra. Typically one should use a larger grain size diamond for roughing and a small grain size for finishing. This isn't the case for the mono-crystalline diamond.
@@Redfvvg In my experience (>27 years designing, testing and using PCD tooling in aluminum high volume production), the binder is the weak link. Not that your statement is not true diamond can wear, I just have not seen that occur in my lifetime machining aluminum alloys - even in hypereutectic alloys.
My email is in my channel about section. As well as instagram, fb, and the website. I would put it in to the comment here but I would attract even more spam comming my way 😉
Wow, you got me 😉 well I started my youtube while I was at weta, I was doing all sorts of cool stuff and I thought it is the best way to show my friends what I was up to in my spare time. Somehow it took off.. You intrigued me with the elf render. I have done it like in 2004 or 2005. Ages ago.. are you in vfx industry as well ??
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Maybe You could spot me back in those days in some fortified environment, if you know what I mean... just to keep this intriguing haha. Not that we knew each other.
Very mysterious 😉 I was always admiring people who do environments. It's soo much work for one image. Where I went with characters as it was way quicker to make. Basically one model and one texture 😀
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Może zbyt skomplikowałem cały temat, w każdym razie robiło się co nieco w VFXie w stolicy jakoś w tamtym czasie, w okolicach liczby 3,1415 (jeżeli to coś ci mówi ;P)... w każdym razie znajomość twojej twórczości to raczej z jakiś kom-netów czy innych gfxowych list, jeżeli mnie pamięć nie myli apropo twojej aktywności. Ale może coś pomieszałem. Niemniej, pozdrawiam.
I would be curious to see what you think of Datron endmills. They show off very special finish quality from their machines using their endmills. They have special single flute endmills for aluminum and use isopropyl for cooling or as a cutting fluid.
I dont think there is a big difference, because it is still a endmill. Good part is that's a single flute so runout is not so important. Datron had its own diamond fly head for only 2.5k usd 😉 when I checked. And the difference between them using their own endmills and fly head was huge.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki the 4 in 1 endmills do have a wiper flat on the bottom, ive used them on a high rpm spindle (40k) and they seem to get better finishes than a xuhan endmill (but i guess they aren't the greatest) ive also noticed its realy difficult to clog them, I did pretty much all machining dry and never had one clog even with full slotting
Yg1 alupower endmills leave a crazy good peripheral finish in aluminum and the price point is impossible to beat. Sgs and yg1 are my personal favorites. Sgs being the more expensive ones. Also Mitsubishi are king for indexables
I mainly use the sgs series 43 scarb, part #34713. This endmill is center cutting so you can ramp, plunge, and rough full radial and 1x dia. It is a beast. It also has wiper flats ground in it so it leaves a very nice bottom finish.
I'm a computer nerd. I can only imagine this type of surface on a cpu heat spreader and on a waterblock. No termal grease, no metal termal paste. Just bare metal on metal, just to see what type of termals we will get.
The problem is with your vides is that I can give you only one like! I would give at least 10 for this. Thanks for creating all this content! If you could provide exact cutting data I would be happy to test the same cutting conditions with different endmills. Or almost the same, I have max 10000 RPM. Cheers!
Oh, I would looooove to use that microscope to take a good look at the fountain pen nib tipping - making them write smoothly and consistently is to this day more art than science - and I really want more science! ;)
I really like science my self 😉 I think I might open memberships on the youtube so I could do stuff like that. It's not really a thing for the whole video buy if viewers could as for some stuff like that I could make quick video and put it there. From my experience with fountain pen, you touch the paper only when you start writing and then you lift it off the paper ever so slightly and paint above the paper and surface tension of the ink is pulling it onto the paper. Simplifying it, you barely touch the paper with the pen.
You may consider removing inserts from your face mills. You could try cutting on one insert if you are interested in seeing individual insert performance.
Thanks for the suggestion. Indeed I forget to add it to the endmills at some point. I guess I got distracted by the zooming, it would be tricky to keep scale bar in scale and in place. So I gived up the idea. I try better next time.
Grooves are always there, and they are there because of technology. In the case of endmills, their grind and grinding coarseness is directly correlated to the quality of the surface finish. All those tools are made to meet the price. The finer the grind more time it takes to make it hence the higher price.Polishing would be another step on top, so an even higher price. I'm guessing that most people want to have a tool to remove the material with a decent surface finish without breaking the bank. Finishing Endmill would be an extra step after you removed 99% of the material. I suspect the price of some good finishing endmill would be much higher than a regular endmill. Definitely, I will have to do more research on it, but for now, with the investigation, I have done so far, I know the limits of regular endmills, and I got a better understanding of the mechanics behind them.
Have you tried using facemill with just one insert so it act's like a flycutter? When you are cutting with just one insert, there is so problem with inserts being at different heights and allow for better surface finish.
Tried it, but the vrations where huge, You would have to re-ballance missing inserts. Or just make another head with one insert which I will do some time later.
Awesome stuff, a lot to learn here. But the mumbling, I had a really hard time understanding what you were saying and had to crank the volume way way up.
Seems like you could use this to get a cost advantage on making high-grade computer "water blocks", as a lot of computer fanatics would otherwise need to hand polish the mating surface on a sheet of glass to get near this surface quality. (they do it to improve heat transfer so they can overclock farther)
Interesting idea. I was into modding and water cooling etc quite a while ago... well I have water cooled pc my self 😉 I might investigate it. Do you have any extra suggestions ??
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Not at this time, no. You clearly know more than I do in your field. I think there is some possibility for the waterblock idea though, as computer upgrade parts claims are generally overblown, but you have video proof of the feature you'd be selling. That same video would likely be shared amongst peers so as to make that computer fanatic more "legit". Heck. I'd probably buy one. Watercooling parts are often very expensive, and their failure to meet expectations makes eliminating suspected under-performing parts very important. The water block interface is probably the most important part of the entire system. Providing there are no leaks.
Hmm. I'm afraid if I would make a cooling block it would be even more expensive than the one in the store. But most definitely it would be the most spectacular one 😉
Hi Fox, great videos you have made. Can i ask what VFD drive you are using on your 2.5kw spindle, is it 240v 800hz , im interested in the 2.5 or 3.2kw atc 100/R24 Jianken but unsure of VFD. I'm another kiwi working from home cutting Ali, need to replace my cnc router spindle.
im using 2kw huanyang vfd, i have a video describing how to set it up. i should have matching vfd, but I'm trying not to run the spindle on 100% because I just don't want to destroy the spindle bearings. i was running other spindle at 100% and it lasted maybe 3 - 6 months, maybe 100h in total. so if you get a 3kw spindle get 3kv vfd. ask spindle manufacturer for recommended vfd for the spindle. give them, a chance :)
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Thanks for the info, Jianken emailed me back today, they have the 3.2kw 400hz spindle, 220v in 3 phase out through inverter, i don't run mine at 100% either, usually around 90%, been pushing it quite hard for a couple of years now, had to replace bearings twice so time to upgrade i think. Definitely like the results you have been getting with the Jianken spindle. I am looking for a vfd that i don't have to worry about, need one that is very reliable, as when the machine is working i don't have time for breakdowns, will keep the old spindle and VFD for a backup if needed. Cheers
Question: How long does a bit/drill/insert last? How perfect does a surface need to be til it's considered useless to go further beyond that kind of finish? Will there be a change in surface finish if you use lubrication with the same exact setup compared to one without?
How long does a bit/drill/insert last? - it its really hard to answer it. How perfect does a surface need to be til it's considered useless to go further beyond that kind of finish? - I'm pretty happy as it is right now because I don't have to do much of the finishing work before anodizing. But out of curiosity, I have to try what is behind the corner :) Yes, lubrication is essential for a whole spectrum of reasons.
To mill mirror finish, the radius of the insert must be big, range between R200 to R 500, using MCD insert will be the best, the edge of the MCD must be less the 800 nanometer.
The edge will never be sharp, no matter what there is a small radius on the cutting edge, quest is how small is the radius, MCD cutting edge can only measure with special wave length machine, for optic turning the MCD cutting edge normally control at 20 to 40 nanometer.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki i thought i was doing pretty good when i scratched the surface and it didn't make a loud noise. im going to watch this video again...
Holly sh.... you are right.. they are made in Taiwan!!! What a ... The endmill was a regular carbide endmill for aluminium 8mm 3 flutes. A100 I think 🤔
Btw. I would setup a Discord server if i was you. Would be cool to me connect with the people who watch your channel. I've setup one for my channel and its cool to get feedback and help from that group and not only YT comments.
Dobra! Bardzo Dobre!! You have a new subscriber here,,, VERY interesting content. I wonder if yoiu had honed the tools, if the finnish would be better? Keep up the amazing work, ja? See you soon...
@@PiotrFoxWysocki Ooops... perhaps I should have written 'Strophing', on a piece of leather...?? Tak, I think this would not work on the Diamond tool(s). I see on your channel/page, you have many Vids that will interest me. We will, for sure, be talking again, and/or questions from me... Ciao 4 now
Comparing the surfaces of tungsten v steel endmills is not a fair comparison.. tungsten is brittle vs. Steel.. of course you'll see "chips" at these magnifications.
I alsow bought some "USA" made Endmills the grinding quality was "sorry" but it was the poorest grind i ever seen on some mills, we moslty use Mitsubishi mills compared to the Harvi i TE the Mitsubishi grind was flawless.... We alsow not just bought 1 mill from Kennametal we bought alot of different tools, but all had the same flaws, dirty out of the box, poor surfacefinish, chipped cutting edges (from grinding to fast) alsow the mills even it was the same diameter the fetures flutes champfers where slight in different locations, moved 2-5µm around....
I guess I'm not making many friends in US at the moment with this video 😉 for my defence I have to say that I was to be scientifically objective. I wish someone would recommend or send me a good US made endmill to clear the bad vibe.
@@PiotrFoxWysocki not scientifical but I'm following the channel Project Farm where he very neutrally compare various tools (unrelated to CNC ) and the made in USA ones are always amongst the most expensive but almost never in the first positions . Made in USA cars don't have a brilliant reputation either compared to say, German cars . I mean: one could expect that anything made in the USA should be absolute top notch but it's not , it's average++ There's always a disappointing side , always a point that's neglected.
I do not know how I get to these places. I don't do... any of this. Nothing in my life is remotely connected to this and yet... here I am... fascinated by a thing I have absolutely no connection to. Awesome.
Use Blu Tack when imaging to remove all impurities, this is what we used in a study I was a part of. Im impressed by your homebrew microscope! Also im sure you're aware of this but different endmills have different "edge preps". Steel tools have honed edges so they dont chip. Aluminum tools are super sharp and highly polished to avoid buildup. Maybe that Xuhan endmill was for steel? Im wondering if the dark valleys we're seeing in the images is "waviness" (it seems when you went a little slower the waviness went away) I challange you to make a homemade profilometer :D
The blue tack idea sounds great! I will use it next time. Actually Xuhan end mill was for aluminium, plastics, etc. not for steel. waviness I believe was caused by inserts not being perfectly aligned. The bigger the gap between cuts wider the imprint of the insert cutting edge. when I went super slow, all the cutting was done by the lowest point of one insert. homemade profilometer :D ha ha ha :D tempting :) but i think it would be cheaper and better to just buy one than spending countless amounts of time and money reinventing one from scratch :) I would really like to have one but I just cannot justify spending money on something which I will use just to satisfy my curiosity.
