“If you want to save your save your soul from hell a-riding on our range, then cowboy change your ways today or with us you will ride trying to catch the Devil’s herd across these endless skies!”
Probably my favorite episode to date! Thank you to Dan and Dan for bringing Candida and her work to my attention. And thank you Candida for offering so many new insights and ideas I had not known. Definitely putting the book on my reading list for this year.
Interesting. We can so easily tap out our thoughts on a keyboard it's easy to forget how difficult that once was. As a long time secretary who did considerable editing to make my bosses look better I certainly understand that work. Why didn't I think of that in terms of Paul's letters? Brow-slapping moment!
I've gotten that before, too, and I just say "if you're not meant to pronounce how you spell it, maybe you should spell it how it's pronounced instead."
The first thing that came to mind. Was that plaster etching of donkey headed Jesus. Then Dan mentioned it. I must be learning something. This will be my next book purchase. Thank you, beautiful people. 😊
I love genuinely imaginative reconstructions as she does with her readings of Mark’s gospel. I don’t see it as ‘made up’ but as essential to understanding these things. I think she is absolutely right that the pressures of public performance need to be considered. That’s how authors presumably would’ve imagined these texts being ‘read’,
Very informative I got a better understanding of these texts from your conversation with your guest. Thank you for the objective and professionalism of your channel.
Wow, the donkey head implies he was seen as a slave - had no idea. That seems really significant? Obviously it’s from the Roman POV but look at all of Paul’s emphasis on the concept of enslaving oneself & even talking about Jesus as a slave. Surely a lot more work needs to be done on this subject, hope this opens the doors to it.
"According to the New Testament book of Romans, Tertius of Iconium (Greek: Τέρτιος Ίκονιού) acted as an amanuensis for Paul the Apostle, writing down his Epistle to the Romans."
IMO religions are typically created by and for the elites. And what made Christianity so different and attractive was that it came from the lower ranks of society.
Initially, probably so. It seemed to be egalitarian (within the group) as with Paul or about humbling yourself in service to those outside the group (‘love your enemies’ kind of stuff) in the more ‘Jewish’ strain. But I think most religions start from the bottom up and not the top down. It can seem like they’re created by elites because ultimately elites will always dominate the narrative. Many people see Christianity as ‘created by elites’ for that reason. I think it’s much too reductive & misleading, but obviously it was elites who ultimately curated the traditions we now know as Christian, so in that sense it’s true.
We live in a bizarre world where all these discussions are held within the light of what Christianity evolved into. Regardless of details, there is no way anyone coming in with a clean slate could read the short stories of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John and possibly come up with anything remotely resembling Christian religion. First off, Jesus was nobody in the stories. There is no indication he had any status. Ok...a carpenter. Associating carpenter to that era gets us nowhere. Again, there is no indication he was a carpenter of any status. The leaders of the religion of the God in the story are his adversaries. That's all there is to it. Wealth? Forget it. Power? No way. Last is first. Here to serve. I've wanted to do the right thing ever since I was 19 and start a real Christian religion. I'm 65 now and have never come close to even beginning to come up with a way to do it. 🤣 Best I can tell, it's impossible. I've come to the conclusion that intended or not, the Jesus stories in those four little books tell the most anti-religious story anyone can possibly come up with. My studies of history are limited to say the least, but I have been looking into the evolution of those Jesus stories in the first couple centuries CE for some decades. I still say the spread of the Jesus story throughout the Empire in the first couple centuries CE is one of the most amazing historical phenomenons. It's easy to understand the evolution from the last half of the third century to today. But those first few centuries.... There has to be a basic reason or two for the spread and latching onto of the obscure story. Pretty much has to be one or two promises and how to achieve them. Monetary and power gains weren't there at the beginning. Those were figured out as it took hold in the metropolises of Northern Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean. Whatever it was, it wasn't anything to do with America or any other form of nationalism. Not wealth and power. There was no religious center. The Jewish Messiah thing works if it had just evolved with the Jews. No way the Jewish Messiah thing had anything to do with it. So what are the most basic points of the stories? Again, because of the insane way Christianity evolved, the anti-apologetic arguments that are so crucial to countering the insanity, may be getting in the way of answering the question. What were the basic points in the stories that were so appealing?
@@Benjamin-jo4rfI will say this up front. When it comes to belief, I cheat. I reached the conclusion long ago, that if I'm going to believe in something, I might as well believe in the best possible thing that can be believed in. Personally, I think it's silly to believe in less. Even if I came face to face with a god that held all power over me who was screwed up per my view, I would believe in a better god. So basically, when it comes to discussion about theology and religion etc., I'm cheating. The only way to best me is to come up with something better. That happens and I will adopt it. I am far beyond being pinned down to interpretations of text and religious traditions. As far as the Bible goes, I am the ultimate cherry-picker. But I don't pick cherries to construct or define anything. I pick cherries to add to my consideration of what would be the best answer to my questions. I know a perfect, eternal creator more than I know I'm keying this in right now. That's not really saying that much, because I don't put a lot of stock in knowing, when it comes to this life and death. I'm totally into science and the workings of this universe and science doesn't have to be absolute in anything it does. It just has to be good enough to get the job done. That's the way I see this life. A practical working with what we have to work with in order to make things better in a realm where humans are incredibly vulnerable to their environment. I consider this universe and possibly trillions of other universes to be other than perfect eternity. In the grand scheme of things, I see them as infinitely small. All but nothing. I believe in no beginning and no end. Nothing other than perfect eternity and we were created other. I think we had to be in order to be who we are and I think we would have it no other way. I know there is no way I can be a part of perfect eternity. I'm not perfect. I believe the impossible will occur and I will be a part of perfect eternity and I believe I will still be me. I think the Jesus story is a tangible answer to that impossibility. I don't think believing in it triggers one's entry into perfect eternity. I think the "only way" is referring to what made it possible and even if it isn't, it does provide a tangible way for people to accept the fact it's taken care of, in spite of what their religions teach them. I'm not going to be a part of perfect eternity because of anything I believe or anything I've done. It was already done. Like I said, I'm cheating. The odds of anyone having something better to offer me are slim (I've certainly never heard or seen it) and when it comes to letting others know what I believe, it's pretty much not an even contest against other beliefs. Gospel? Good news? Slam dunk on my end and I don't even have to jump.
@dominionphilosophy3698I'm pretty well versed when it comes to the Roman Empire. I agree with most of what you said. I don't think the stories have much to do with the powers of the world. I know Roman society along with most other cultures revolved around the appeasing of the gods. I think the story set people free from what we think of as the religious realm. The thing that all these podcasts and videos are linked to. Most of it from scholars to atheists is intrinsically linked to authoritative religious practices and teachings that have been causing damage ever since they existed. Different movements against the practices and teachings have also risen from within the religions, only to fall prey to their own evolving authoritative practices. Argument exists that the Christians and their influence was presenting a threat to the local practices tied to appeasing the gods. Those practices effected local temples and priests. I think there is a common thread that runs underneath almost all the Christian beliefs that has the individual gaining direct access to the God through Jesus. Even when presented with the massive construct of a Church, a hierarchy of popes, cardinals, bishops and priests. Sacraments. Confessions. Pile it on and on and on. The individual gets in bed and closes their eyes, the direct connection exists. There are sects that even make it their most basic teaching. But they can't help themselves. They simply cannot set the people free from the religion. I could be wrong. Same as most people, my thinking could be being influenced by wishful thinking. But from everything I've seen and heard so far, I think the spread was mainly due to the direct access to the god through the main character in the story. I'm not saying it was the intent of the authors or whoever was doing the most spreading of the stories. I just think it's unavoidable when dealing with the basic story line. I agree with the common narrative in relation to the effects on the lower classes of the societies, but I don't think they were the main engine.
Interesting… Reminds me of when, after college, I asked a friend to read a short story. She had worked as an administrative assistant, so she corrected some grammatical mistakes but also rephrased some sentences. I asked her why she had rephrased instead of just fixing typos. She said she was making those sentences clearer and it’s something she does at work. I told her that altered the meaning to something worse because her interpretations were not at all the same as what I intended to communicate.
Or that the biggest opponents to Christian anti-slavery activists were the Hebrew slave merchants. The initial colonies in South America were established by Hebrew slave traders from the Netherlands
Wasn’t Paul well educated? Did he need an academic scribe to correct his letters? And Paul had other Christian associates, wouldn’t they have mentioned to Paul that the scribe was writing differently than what Paul intended? Paul seems precise in what he is saying….would he have trusted just any scribe to write on his behalf?
*Paul “cursed” slaves* If Jesus had been a slave, Paul was unaware In Galatians 4:23-24 he is saying that *birth into bondage **_(paidiskes)_** is part of the covenant of Mt Sinai.* In Galatians 4:28-31, possibly paraphrasing the abuse of Hagar in Genesis 16:4-6, Paul *endorses not treating slaves well,* upholds leaving a slave woman and her son homeless, and makes the slaves metaphorically ungodly; a separate, destitute class (which contradicts his earlier child-heirs-are-slaves claim). Galatians 4:30 *”The son of the slave woman **_(paidisken)_** shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”* This is a metaphor for not inheriting Yahweh’s promise to Abraham and his people, which is an accurate assessment of the horrible morality of Genesis 16.
@@VulcanLogic All who read will receive Jesus healing energy all old aches and pains will be washed away. Those that ground yr spirit by self worship are allowed
An image that always springs to mind, when watching people such as these discussing the Bible, is that of three people sitting on the deck of the Titanic debating the existence of icebergs.
The construction worker in this place on Earth at this time would be STONE MASONS. Not a lot of wood easily to get in a hot dry area. Archaeological and architectural study suggest most construction is in Limestone ( every where in the area .).
@@FernLovebond no my friend these three are brain washing you. We don’t have a dogma we are the ones who read and understand the Bible as is. No where does it say zex worker. Not even in the so called “data”. So excuse me for scoffing at this nonsense.
