Episode 8 - The Abyss of Life | FX's Shōgun: The Official Podcast 

Anyone else going to watch the episode again after hearing the podcast? 👀

The scene of Hiromatsu Seppuku is a master piece. There aren’t many shows or movies than can do this. It’s definitely up there with Tyrions Trial scene in GoT.

Oh my god I did not expect to cry while watching Shogun. Hiromatsu was my favourite character. . .

This was just incredible. A show like Shōgun is the perfect example of why I absolutely love TV. This show is a masterpiece.

Hiromatsu surely made this episode memorable. Havent cried for a character in a while.

Also, another “F” for the First Fujiless episode.🥺🥺🥺

We all need a friend like Hiromatsu! 😭

Another sad and beautiful scene is the tea ceremony🥲 A drop of water is on the verge of falling from a leaf. The literal translation of the hanging scroll, 'Green willows are good, red flowers are good,' represents the preference to accept things as they are. Buntaro set up the tearoom with his thoughts while he was on the verge of death. Mariko spotted the hanging scroll and the vase, and she realized his thoughts, so Mariko began a poem that focused on the scent of a plum that had been detached from its flower. The scent of flowers has been used for a long time in love poetry. The seasonal word plays a significant role in Japanese poetry. The plum is a sign of a season that was earlier and not the one Buntaro selected for the interior. Maybe Mariko compared her love to the scent of a plum. It may drift through her eightfold fence, where she accepted Blackthorn. I suppose she was telling her husband, 'It is not you who respects and loves me as I am.'

this show is so beyond incredible. i hope they win any and all awards the writers, cast, and crew all put so much effort in. truly a masterpiece

"You will know what it is to be denied" reference to Mariko

This might be the best thing ever made for TV. Congratulations to the crew and cast.

いやぁ、、、、第８話、すごかったわ。残り３話でどう話を畳むかと思いきや、ネタバレになるから何とも言えないが、すごく迫力というか、ゾワっとしたわ。

This episode exceeded all expectations and a masterpiece all on its own! We still have 2 episodes left, tears poured out like flash flood with Hiromatsu scene, i didnt expect i would cry like that, it didnt even let you rest your eyes after that scene. Bravo!

Wow........just, wow!! Can't wait to discuss this one with everyone Wednesday night!

I cried at the tea ceremony. The symbolism

The first episode without Fuji. My suffering was immeasurable.

That scene the raining water and the whole atmhosphere of the scene, also the incredible acting from both actor when they staring each other, no words but the expression and the eyes are incredible

That was wild. In 2023 The Last Of Us Episode 3, in my humble opinion, was episode of the year. This Year it's Shogun Episode 8.

Extraordinary episode, it is a masterpiece. I absolutely loved it.

I see the vision! I had faith no matter what that it would deliver that same message and feeling of the book. I love it. As a separate thing then the book or 1980s original. Listening to the podcast after the episodes has done so much to let you in on what the thinking and process is. These need to be watched by anyone who loves the books or original. This really lets you know the level of respect they have for the original work. I respect the changes and reasons for them. It makes sense and lets you know they want a historical accurate representation of Japan and how things might have worked in a more realistic way. Anjin isn’t some white knight that comes to save the day, he doesn’t magically learn and feel so much apart of the culture so fast. It’s a weird long process. Ups and downs. It’s hard to accept fate. I love this show. Excuse me for this long comment. Just felt some people who are negative need to see this so they can understand this isn’t a bad show in anyway. Beyond the original story these are amazing actors and the shots are gorgeous, this story is awesome too. They all have the same end point just different ways of getting there.

This is the best series since Game of Thrones. So emotional, unpredictable and very mind stimulating. Thanks a lot. Hiroyuki Sanada and the writers, other producers and the full cast for this amazing work. This is what real TV feels like. Shout Out to James Clavell also for the original story. R.I.P Hiromatsu and Nagakado. Hee! Hee!! Ho!!!

I'm absolutely obsessed with this show

"Lord! Your vassal dies in vain!" *"Then die."* 😯

LOYALTY

People can belong into societies they weren’t born into. I’ve seen it done wit people moving to my country, learning the language, taking part of local customs, becoming a citizen, marring people from the area, joining defence units, and even yes, adopting the mindset of the area. William Adams, the historical person I believe did this. If this were not possible then or now, then our future will not be bright.

Hiromatsu was man's man In the original series, vasco rodrigues told Blackthorne that if a samurai' lord told him to die, he would do so instantly Hiromatsu wasted no time dying for Toranaga's plan You couldnt asked for more noble warrior and even greater friend

広松と虎永の掛け合いがとても良かった。 特に広松の「忠義」「決死の覚悟」「大義ある死」がとても良かった 虎永が切腹を止めたのに広松が此処で切腹をすることはこれからの戦いに重要なんだと虎長を嗜めて切腹を促し苦渋の決断で虎永が広松に切腹を命じた。しかも広松は死の直前まで孤高の戦いに身を置かなければならない主を案じて自分の息子に最後まで主を信用して支えになるように言い聞かせた。これ以上の忠義はない。

Loved the evolution of Blackthorn. He views his crew members as bariatric...loud, rude, smelly and unrefined. Now he is more appreciative the Asian way of life. He is also beginning to appreciate the power of what is "unsaid" as opposed to him voicing everything that crosses his mind. Miroko told him to not be fooled by the smiles/good manners extended to him. He is learning as the uncle/nephew team that pissed on him and wanted to boil him alive, now want to align with him in battle. Blackthorn is not fooled.

Masterwork 🌹 Great Cast

Amazing show ❤️👌👌❤️❤️❤️

This eposide was brilliant! You see 8 fold fence and a fist broken at the Wrist. Toranaga is fooling everyone except those who really know him. Lots of sacrifices! Myriko finally drew her line in the sand with her husband...her fence is down! The head courtesan who has divinity gifts, lets us know that Toranaga will win, cause she is designing her Willow village that he promised upon his take-over.

I will watch this a second time

my favorite series right now ⚔🎎💯💥💫🤟🤘👏🌠✨♠

Great episode but I feel for the book readers who were expecting Blackthorne and Mariko's relationship be more than what it is at this point.

日本人的にここまで細部にこだわってきれると嬉しい

Yabushige and Blackthrone alliance, didn't see that coming, but at the same time, I can't blame Yabushige for declining to go to Osake, especially since, Ishido, sent his messenger head, back too him in a box

Does anybody know if there are more cast interviews with English subtitles available? I have tried to watch Japanese interviews with automatic captions in English, German, Russian and in my native language, but there are parts of the translations that don't make much sense.

Is the background music for this podcast on the soundtrack??

I Kinda knew that Nagakado’s death bought time for Toranaga… but now, after just watching episode 8, the question is this for us fans: did Toranaga order his son to die? Or is he capitalising on the death after the fact? Especially after hearing him say to Mariko “Osaka must believe that the defeat is real”? Also “F” for Hiromatsu-dono. A real ride or die.

Loyalty is often what the west think it what Asians adhere to. Most of the time it is the concept of duty that most bounded to. The term samurai means "to serve".

Hiromatsu knew what the plan was what a sacrifice.

I'm confusedasto where Toronaga's brother is(he does remind me of Scar from Lion King)

Toda Hiromatsu😢🙏🏻

Hiromatsu 😢

so what does the scroll on the wall in the tea room say?

I hope you'll make use of all those costume, sets, writers and production team when the show is over...

"SHOW GUN" 😵‍💫

Im putting shogun next to game of thrones as overall best fantasy series

best show since GoT season 1-5 n it's historical based

The writers should have chatted with more people with the lived experience of moving and living permanently in another country. You feel like a foreigner in your birth country and not quite fully accepted in your new one but it is your home. It is where you find mroe comfort and you don’t recognise the person form before.

Hiw did toranaga know anjin will go to yabu?

So different from the 80s version where Blackthorn is not really the center of the story. Kind of small part of the bigger picture.

Toranaga is cooold as ice!!! I wonder if tokugawa was ruthless like this, hiramatsu died pointlessly, i don’t know why japanese people are quick to kill themselves, and the fact that incidents like this really happened makes it more disturbing, great episode though.

This show will probably be top 10 or 15 best shows of all time for me. That said, it is a shame that the showrunners couldn't do as much research on reading Clavell's book as they did on history. They introduced a venality and a colonial mindset and selfishness that was not present in the Blackthorne of the book or at the very least was something that Blackthorne shed half-way through the book. I have always said that it was Mariko that was the real hero of the book. I do not mind at all the emphasis on the Japanese characters and story and I find them most enjoyable and worthy of that focus, but they've done the character of Blackthorne dirty. I find it interesting the showrunner feels that nobody can ever adapt to a new culture they weren't born to and that acceptance and adaptation is the very heart of the story of Blackthorne's story arc. I'm guessing none of them have tried or in the case of Blackthorne, been forced to out of necessity and then by choice and matter of will. The real world inspiration of Blackthorne did exactly this. Again I don't pretend that Blackthorne was the hero of the book. He was nothing like a White Savior. He didn't save anybody. He didn't make Japan better by being there. But yes, he followed the Stranger in a Strange Land trope. The beauty of Blackthorne's story in Clavell's novel was that he did in the end, become truly accepting of the fate that brought him to Japan and that forced him to stay there. He accepted that fate and he chose to live by Japanese rules. Thats all they needed to do with Blackthorne. There's a nobility in that storyarc that the showrunners have apparently decided to deny him and that's a shame.

Well you can see how much of a good job they did with Mariko's funeral in the first series.

I had to go back and listen again to the writer speaking about Blackthorne's 'colonial impulses,' because wasn't it in an earlier episode that Toranaga and the dying Taiko reminisced about the invasion of Korea? Wasn't that colonialist, too? Did they forget that the Japanese invaded the independent Ryukyu Kingdom in 1609? Or that the Japanese colonized the Ainu people of northern Honshu and Hokkaido? Perhaps I've missed something, but I can't help thinking this all a bit hypocritical. Apparently, though, in the writer's Hollywood bubble only straight white men can have colonialist impulses. After all, don't straight white men 'have all the power?'

Although the drama is riveting I really feel the gap of it not being clear what the value of time is for toranaga

I think that Mari didn't want to marry Buntaro because his family was of a lower status than Mariko's. That's why Mariko looks down on Buntaro. Tadaoki, who was the model for Buntaro, loved his wife so much. Buntaro loved his wife. That's why she didn't want him to die. Do you want to kill someone you love? Buntaro was clumsy and couldn't express his love well, but he hadn't been abuse her . Mariko was attracted to anjin, a Westerner who expressed his feelings openly. When Buntaro returned from a tough battle, they became good friends. I think that's why he was irritated and resorted to violence. Mariko has too much self-pity. She has a strong desire for death and is strong-willed and cold, I think. Would Mariko have said something kind to Buntaro after what happened to her husband's father? I think no.

this was a lot...

They should no longer state this is based on the novel, for the story has changed far too much.

_==_

Blackthorne keeps getting the short end of the stick. What a shame for such a great character in Clavell’s book.

I am not sure I like what they are doing to Blackthorne's character.

4:25 Really disagree with the sentiment that you can never truly belong in a place where you weren’t born. This is a really strange thing to say…I understand that that was and is a prevailing attitude in Japan to some extent, but that doesn’t make it true…or an ethical belief. Do immigrants not belong in the Western countries they call home? Blackthorn respects and aligns with Japanese culture, speaks the language and honours their traditions, and he’s been accepted. Why would he not belong there? He came to establish trade, not to conquer. Now he just wants to build a life. Or is there something I’m missing?

Hard to turn away. Toronaga’s plan had best not be contrived or ridiculous. Too much build up.

Sorry but it’s hard to understand why his best friend had to died just to pretend he was defeated. Same for wife’s being abused

Zaten yavaş giden bir diziyi haftada 1 kez yayınlamanız çok sinir bozucu

They don't do a good job of explaining why Mariko hates Buntaro. All they say is that it was an arranged marriage and she didn't like him from the beginning. But all the noble women had arranged marriage. It makes no sense. Then he wouldn't let her kill herself. So she hates him more? She isn't a very sympathetic character, despite being full of self pity.

Stop it you all. Hiromatsu doesn’t die, one of the generals is ordered to commit sepuki indeed but not Hiromatsu. Toranaga son doesn’t die, they both live and fight for Toranaga in the final battle at Sekigahara. It’s total nonsense what’s done with this episode, especially Nagas comical death

The plot just seemed to get unnecessarily convoluted in this episode. I think the writers are trying too hard to emulate GoT and think making characters play 4D chess makes for a good storyline.

I’ve watched or played this episode twice. I’m losing interest . I can’t stand watching Cosmo destroy scenes. The tea ceremony was unnecessary despite the historical importance behind it. The art in making tea was finger painted by a child. I am embarrassed by the amount of hype I gave this series after watching the first few episodes. The last two episodes are trash.

This is a soap opera shegun😢 no action

This is becoming boring. The girl boss agenda is pertinent in the past few episodes. Can you just tell it like the book. A 15 minute tea session is too self gratuitous and is killing the pace.

This show is amazing.

Buntaro makes tea so sexy❤

Sorry Guys all your futile butterings of the show in vain, I call it what is is: Shogun is naked. One of the biggest disappointments of last decade. 3 out of 10 so far for me.