Eps 359: Bullet Spin Direction and 7mm Rem Mag Accuracy 

None of your shows are boring Ron! Please keep doing them! I love all the content!

"Fast is fine, Accuracy is final." - Wyatt Earp

I acquired a Winchester Model 88 in .308! Found a Weaver K4 to mount on top! Love it!

The monologue answering Shane's question is the type of wisdom I come back for time and time again.

To Ron S.: Since you asked us about the format of the videos here on You Tube -----> I say: Keep doing what you have been doing! I personally care nothing about 7mms (or magnums), I hate scopes, and despise light little carbines, but - you do make good comments about many things that are very needful, such as proper bullet placement and getting used to where the firearm shoots at when you squeeze the trigger at various distances. Ethical hunting versus wounding of animals. Your very good video about actual recoil where you stood sideways to the camera and next to a building and shoot a heavy recoiling rifle was very educational / informative. You are very correct about the work-until-you-die mentality in the U.S.A.. I wonder if it stems from the Great Depression from 1929 to 1940? Yes - we need to pay the rent, buy groceries, shoes, etc. but many people here never "stop to smell the flowers".

I like a variety of subjects/topics in a podcast. I also like when you do a show on one specific area where you showcase a product

Thank you Ron. I like the current format. It reminds me of Elmer Keith's Gun Notes. Keep up the good work.

Hi Ron, The Creedmore advertises it's long bullet, high BC "advantage" over the 260 Rem. with its faster twist, sharper angled shoulder, longer neck and shorter case; the CM's added room for bullets above the body is supposed to allow longer bullets; uhh, ok? What's the advantage over the 260 Rem. when the 260 has more capacity to allow a little intrusion of those same bullets into the body-shoulder junction? The CM's small rifle primers allow slightly more pressure; but still, this makes the smaller powder capacity than the 260 Rem. a wash in muzzle velocity, at the expense of slightly more throat erosion with its higher pressures, so what good are small rifle primers? I haven't seen any data of their superiority over large rifle primers. I never believed the Creedmore hype and rebarreled my '82 Ruger M-77 Tang Safety with a 26" PacNor, chrome moly, polygonal rifled, palma contoured, 1-8 twist 260AI. Take that, CM hype!😄 One more thing, try resizing some of the millions of spent 308 win. cases into 6.5 CM like you can with the 260 Rem.

On a Pre64 Model 70; Controlled Round Feed is where the extractor grabs the cartridge as it is emerging from the magazine, guiding it into the chamber in the same fashion as a Mauser. Push feed is when the extractor snaps over the groove as it’s being chambered.

I love them all ! I enjoy your content! Don’t matter what caliber! Thanks for the info Mr Ron !

I had always heard the Spanish had Spitzer bullets too! Also a difference in gun powder. More things to follow up.

Part of the reason for Spindrift has to do with the fact that when you fire around and it is at an upward angle as it comes down to gravity it doesn't change that bullet from staying pointed upward and as there's an effect on the bullet that spinning, if it's spinning to the right it will tend to turn to the right as there's pressure on the bullet to align itself with going forward. That's called gyroscopic progression. If it's spinning to the left it will do the same thing only it will turn to the left. And it's exacerbated by the fact that it's spinning and the rifling marks actually will paddle and climb that bullet in the direction of its spin. Because the more stabilized pressure is behind the bullet, not in front of the bullet. Especially when it's going at supersonic speeds, and like a 308 when it gets to about 700 yards becomes transonic and the effect is even greater after that. At least as far as the wind, and the effect on the air is concerned.

Ron , thanks for bringing back memories of our youth in Scotland ,South Dakota area. Many of the kids walked beans and picked rocks or stacked bales for money for fishing & hunting equipment..I bought my first shotgun a Winchester 1200 pump with that money.at age 16.

Ron, I have the dreaded ringing in my ears due to the adventure of my youth. When shooting, especially rifles, this is worse. If you could do a series, like the one on .308's, covering Suppressors (value, moderate and premium) and what to expect (impact of 8oz or 16 oz suppressor on light rifles) that would be great. Most of us semi old fudds would benefit from your input on how the various suppressors feel and work on the light hunting rifles. For me, I hope to add a suppressor in the next year to my Christensen Arms Mesa with a 1/2x28 threaded barrel (thinking something like the NOSLER SR-30ALTI or Banish Backcountry) with the hope it allows me to hunt honest and shoot straight more often.

You are right Ron when I was a kid people worked hard, My dad would often go to early mass Sunday morning then change into his work clothes and off to work!😊

Do a show about pistol calibers in rifles.. 32 Winchester special vs the new calibers that they compare to the 30-30.

Ron thanks for educating us old boomers. I enjoy your videos!

Little story about wind.... One year when I was shooting the national matches at Camp Perry, The wind at the firing line flag was blowing left to right, And the flags at the six hundred yard line we're blowing right to left. The wind can get weird off of Lake Erie.

I like the technical side of things that you get into.

bear spray info, the exsperation date is due to reliability of the internal oring that deteriats over time and the propelent leaks out so when its go time you might not have pressure.

I completely agree about stalking an animal to get as close as possible. Not only does it get you as close as possible for a better guarantee of hitting your target, but more importantly it shows RESPECT for the animal. Too many times a poke and hope shot results in a wounded animal and no recovery. In my youth, many years ago, it was how we actually fed the family which demanded that we get close for a one shot kill.

A lot has been written - especially with the upsurge in interest in long-range target shooting - about external ballistics such as the topics you cover here. What I never see written about, however, is an aspect of internal ballistics: not the linear acceleration of the bullet, but rather the effect of rifling on the movement of the gun while the bullet is traversing the barrel. Obviously, the rifling is exerting a force on the bullet as it accelerates to the muzzle, that increases the bullet's rate of rotation (clockwise with right hand twist rifling). It's not a trivial amount of torque that's required to spin a bullet up to (for a 1:12 twist at 3,000 f/s) 180,000 RPM in a millisecond or so. Yet often neglected is the fact of the equal and opposite torque exerted on the barrel by the bullet's inertia, which is resisting the torque being imposed by the rifling. That torque, imposed by the accelerating bullet pushing on the rifling, wants to rotate the gun along the axis of the barrel, in the opposite - eg, counterclockwise, direction. You can see the effect of this torque in slow-motion video of a rifle or handgun being fired, as the gun rotates counterclockwise and recoils backwards. If the barrel alone were suspended freely in space, such that it was free to spin along its bore centerline - the barrel's axis - it would smoothly rotate about its bore axis, counterclockwise, at a speed proportional to its mass relative to the mass of the bullet - while the bullet would rotate clockwise within it, as it moved forward. Of course, the bullet would rotate to a much greater degree, based on the balance of forces implicit in F=MA; that is, M(barrel)*A(barrel)=M(bullet)*A(bullet) - the rotary acceleration of the much more massive barrel would be much less than the rotary acceleration of the relatively lightweight bullet. That much is obvious. But the barrel ISN'T suspended freely in space and perfectly symmetrical in mass around the axis of the bore, spinning like a barrel clamped in a lathe; it's connected to the receiver, and the stock, and the shooter holding the forearm, and the buttstock against the shoulder and the cheek of the shooter, etc. The axis of rotation of the barrel is nowhere near the axis of rotation of the entire rifle (in this example) or pistol being held by a grip that descends below the barrel, held by a hand enclosing a magazine full of bullets. That complicated mass is going to rotate, not around the barrel's axis, but rather about its own various axial centers of mass - which not only change from muzzle to buttstock, but which also could be further complicated - by a riflescope at some height above the bore axis, or a magazine dangling below the receiver, etc. Any slow-motion video of a gun being fired - typically from the front of the weapon looking back at the shooter and slightly off to the side of the weapon - will show, for example, the riflescope deflecting off to the left (from the shooter's perspective), the entire rifle less so, the magazine to the right, etc. as the torque on the rifle imposed by the bullet's resistance to being spun up forces the complex distribution of masses to rotate, and move laterally off the point of aim/axis of the barrel at the moment of firing. The resulting motion flips the muzzle sideways, the whole gun pivoting around the various resistance points of mass and contact, all of which are dynamically changing as it moves in the grip of the shooter. Each time the gun is fired, that set of resistance points and masses is going to change - a tighter grip, more pressure on the shoulder, a magazine with one less bullet's mass in it, etc. - and the motion of the gun is going to change along with it, the muzzle of the barrel taking a different pathway and "flipping" the bullet as it exits the muzzle to a greater or lesser degree, in an unpredictable direction compared to the previous shot. All those forces - which tend to be ignored given the direct impact on the shooter's shoulder of the gun's recoil - substantially vary the placement of bullets down range for even the most carefully and consistently held firearm, yet I never see the issue discussed. I bring it up, because if we don't know that it's happening, we can't compensate for it or take it into consideration when we are preparing for a shot - for example in the way we brace a weapon prior to pulling the trigger. Your comments on the effect of wind and rotational physics during the external ballistics portion of the bullet's flight from muzzle to target triggered this thought, so I figured I'd bring it up to try to add to the conversation. Thanks, as always, for a stimulating discussion of what makes things fly through the air and hit what we want them to.

Ron, yes please keep doin what you doin. And anytime you dissinimate info on the Nobel.30-06 I am interested. Have been following your writing and now pods since the mid 70's. And yes, I still havecmy ol rem 700 in .30-06. One of if not the most versatile cartridge in the world. Keep it up sir.

When people ask about checking zero at a short range of 25 yards or so, the height of the scope centerline above the bore is very important. The answer varies, for example if someone is using high scope rings and a 34mm tube scope vs lower rings with a 1" tube.

33:03 if you hunt in an area where you expect to have a 200 yard shot and you have a laser rangefinder or, for Pete’s sake, a surveyor’s chain, then you have access to a 200 yard range.

If you really care about velocity and hitting the right accuracy node in a 7, there’s only one option to go to. It’s getting a 28 Nosler and reloading, he cheapest rifles I can find are 900-1100, but if you’re going for perfection it can cost a few extra hundred dollars.

Hey Kentucky Ken, I have an older BAR and i run a 4-12x40 and the medium height works well. The only problem is the sunshade on my scope nearly touches the rear sight. I think your 3-9x should be fine.

The beuro of ordinanc was particularly behind in 92/ 98when using krags.(1) issued krags with a rear sight preventing witdrawel from scabards. Really. (2) they ran a ridiculous heavy bullet220grain.(3) krags have TWO locking lugs. Ordinance fit only one to reciever. 98 models mostly fit both( ordinance fially dumped krags looking ( it is said) for a 150 g / 2700.good my krag does it.

It sounds like your viewer with the 7mm rem mag is having heat related issues as he mentions that he needs to wait for the rifle to cool before the accuracy comes back and I don’t think a loose or broken scope would be affected in that way and maybe not even loose bedding. If the barrel isn’t floated from the stock, or even not in consistent contact that could certainly explain the problem. If it’s a wood stock, those can change a little over time or with humidity changes. I’d suggest doing the dollar bill test and repeat that when the barrel is hot. Of course, if he hasn’t got any dollar bills left, a piece of paper should do just fine.

That guy with the accuracy problem with the 7mm Rem Mag: Magnum calibers tend to get copper fouled quicker than nonmagnum calibers. When one buys a good used magnum like a Rem. Model 700, it is very important to use a good/proven copper solvent like Sweets 7.62 (paying VERY close attention to solvent directions) and remove all copper build-up in the grooves and lands. Your "average" hunter, using a mag. hunting rifle, usually does not clean the barrel according to competition standards with a good COPPER SOLVENT. To say again: With MAGNUM RIFLES, belted or unbelted, you need to use a good COPPER SOLVENT because copper fouling builds up quicker in mag. calibers than non magnum ones. If you let that copper fouling build up, even if your shooting technique is "perfect," your pattern could resemble a 12 gauge #8 shot pattern at 50 yards or more.....Just an extra thought Ron. Your other check points are spot-on. After hitting those points, including trigger pull weight; NOTE: ( YOU CAN NOT GET SURGICAL ACCURACY WITH AN 8 POUND TRIGGER! Your lips will turn blue and you'll nearly pass out before that 8 lb abomination breaks); again, clean the barrel of ALL COPPER FOULING. If that doesn't do it, REPLACE THE BARREL, it could very well be shot-out past the accuracy point. The other sad point: Magnum barrels do not maintain sub moa accuracy as long as non magnum ones. That's due to higher bullet velocities, higher temps., pressures, and bullet to barrel friction coefficients.

Hi Ron they can also video there shooting technique over a string of rounds that might help your shooting .

Trouble is Ron, Spindrift is something else altogether ! ask a Yachtsman!!

Six minutes in and I'm already digging this video. Do people really not know/understand 'wind'?

Spin drift, on average, will be about 1/2 moa at 600 yards and 3/4 - 1 moa at 1,000 yards.

The tedfield scope was a tank BUTfor one small screw bottom rear. Bet thats what he has on the m70 / 7mag😮

Please keep the podcast random topics. Id also enjoy you reading more of your stories. Great advice for the commentator of the week, some close calls caused me to focus more on enjoying my time on this earth versus gaining material things. I gotta constantly remind myself of my choice and focus but it's not failed me yet.

31 mins. Sorry Ron; yes you do. 😁😁👍 Bit cheeky Ron! There’s no unsigned version available on your site.

Hi Ron, I wondered about spin drift. I use a laser boresight at 25yds. Then I take it to 100yds for zero confirmation. With my last 6.5creedmoor, I noticed that after laser boresighting at 25 yards at a hundred the point of impact was 3 MOA right of the point of aim. I wondered if the drift was due to the rifling as I had heard from forums. After hearing your podcast, I now wonder why there was that much difference. It didn't matter to me much, I just made the correction adjusted my zero, and called it a day. But I still wonder what caused this.

Good stuff. Mean Point Blank Range is very important is you can't sight at 100 or 200 yards. But you need to have every possible point of information to feed the ballistic calculator. Take that, and verify everything. If it's off, feed all the info in again with a longer shot which will make it more accurate

For the guy whose groups open when the barrel warms, what type of barrel? Did you go ultra-light with a carbon fiber? This issue seems somewhat common with those things. The fibers and the steel expand with heat at different rates, so when it warms, it tries to act like a thermostat spring.

When you're shooting a 44 Marlin you get used to to holding over or I called it wind and elevation.

I've been sprayed with pepper spray before and it only made me matter so instead of just giving them a wipping they got whopping...

I'm an old school paratrooper too, and I agree with the other old school paratrooper.

fine presentation

I would love you do a whole segment on the fantastic sevens

Ron I have a per 69 rem 700 custom deluxe 7mm mag I got from sporting good went by store few years later dealer ask if I would sell back I said still using he had some on shelf he said wasn't the same he said mine had the black from barrel did they make them I know it shoots a three shot group inside a dime at 100yard and it does lot of damage more than some newer ones

Shure like your stores🤙

Check torque on action screws. Run a dollar bill between the barrel and stock. If I catches the stock is putting uneven pressure on the barrel and throwing harmonics off. Check scope screws make sure they are properly torqued and aren't bound

Is spin drift different in southern hemisphere vs northern hemisphere

I can’t believe u haven’t shot a tikka rifle. I’m not rich. That is the best rifle u can buy for the buck. U should try the tikka out. I’d love to see your opinion for that medium priced gun.

Hi Ron, so I don't have a 7mm rifle in any type of 7mm, -08, PRC, Rem Mag etc... So my question is, since I don't have one yet, should I consider the 7mmPRC? I really want a 7mm and if I already had the 7mm Rem Mag that would be sufficient, but since I don't, I am really kind of Interested in the 7mm PRC. What's your opinion? Thank you!

If you're doing 30-06 week you got to talk about m1 grand and its predecessor the 1917 in field

Pre 64 really applys to all Winchester Firearms to some extent As there entire line changed.If am no mistaken. They went to different metals from steel to alloys for receivers on the 94s n others. People simply didnt care for such n the other changes made to the M70 you touched on. However It sold n more PFs M70 were made than the Pre 64. Its actually a better designed extractor n also 3 rings of steel of the 700 line. I like em n have pre post early post mid n late post PF had Classics wish still did,post New Havens n finaly got the CRPF in 06 .. Carry on Sir

I would try to find out if the barrel is shot out , doesn't take much in a 7mm Rem mag, only got 1200rounds out of my first barrel.

Havent watched all the way through yet but what if your hunting in southern hemisphere vs northern hemisphere would that effect which way you should spin your bullet?

On the 7mm not grouping HELP ??.. Well Said n Covered..

Ron, your discussion of holdover prompted two thoughts -- ONE, the story of taking out an Iraqi sniper by a Marine scout sniper in Fallujah in '04.1300 yards, the marine had to shift 12 feet left for windage, and 12 feet of holdover. The Iraqi took a center mass shot. Still the record for 7.62x51. TWO, there's a small difference between .223 and 5.56; is there a similar difference between ,308 and 7.62x51? Thanks, m'friend.

Hey Ron Kirby from MJ SASK Canada,I love your videos and have learned tons from you.I got some hate mail regarding a comment I made about shooting into wood awhile back not sure if it was a viewer or someone from your team,I'm hoping it wasn;t the latter I just needed to comment as I spend a lot of my personal time to watch your videos brother......

Ron, I need you to explain something!!! This 1000ft pounds of energy from a rifle to effectively kill whitetail. I call BS!! I've heard this several times from you and other writers and lol professionals. Here is my reasoning. Not too long ago, I watched you test a 10mm handgun you were going to take on a whitetail hunt. Which if I'm not mistaken, it has, on average, 570Ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. Now, doing the math that's 350-foot lbs at 75 yards and getting a complete pass thru. So why does everyone say you have to have 1000ft-lbs ?? I personally say 650ft lbs or more. please explain why and how yall come up with 1000ft lbs??

Just the grooves in the bullet after it leaves the rifle grabs air. Just like a foot ball. Yah and air behind it is all to much info. I start seeing twist rate past 700. 800 i get almost 5 inches of spin drift

My Sako 90 in 7mmRm would be my "If you could only have one" rifle. Lord Thunderin' is it accurate. Nothing to do with me. It's all the rifle.

Great show. You might think of adding a bright light that mounts on SHF or bear guns. I heard poeple using Laser sights to help aim also. Keep up good work thank you

Wow, I'm watching this "reading the mail" and and these questions are so basic I have to wonder about the experience level of your audience? To your credit, you handle these questions with grace & I respect your good humor while responding to these entry level questions. I am sure you know a thing or two because you are a fellow Ackley fan. I have been saying for years that the 22-250Ackley Improved deserves factory chamberings. I own two, BTW. It is my opinion that it is a good thing that Ackley users must be handloaders, I am a firm believer that all centerfire rifle shooters should be handloaders because they usually know what they are talking about and seldom ask these entry level questions. I enjoy your channel, and wish you continued success.

I have retinopathy depending on the day I can’t see iron sights well enough to be accurate but I can see a red dot on my worst day and as for speed when my eyes were good I shot pistol drills for speed on a timer and couldn’t see a discernible difference between irons and a red dot

This is why you want a 7mm PRC period 🙂

T3X

Why are so many people chasing High BC ? rom what I can see unless you're shooting at least 500 yds You can't tell the difference. And honestly, if you're shooting a thousand yards, you've already got 10 ft of hold over with that super high BC bullet. What's another 5 or 6 ft???? I would think knowing your drops would be much more important than having a super high VC, but that's just me.

👹👇🏿👀

You can work your whole life chasing dollars and never live.i work very hard .went to work full time at 13.immediatly after high-school I received a great promotion and was placed on salary 7 to6 6 days a week.sun with my small family . nowadays I play hard.my son died prematurely and I woke up.he was successful also and we did a few vacations. But we never hunted together. Too late now.take your kids outdoors

Colorado almost banned 7mm because it was known as a wound only round. More getaways wounded with a 7mm than with a 30 cal.

Projectiles spin in the same direction as the twist. There, no podcast needed.

7mm rem mag can be very accurate. Not going to waste time on a clickbait video

Good show.

One suggestion, can we get just maybe three more commercials in the next video lol