Ep. 076 - Let's Talk Powder 

Being a reloading nerd, I really enjoy these types of podcasts. 😅👍

A podcast on appropriate ammunition, powder, primer, etc storage would be great!!!!

The knowledge level that is shared in this video is awe inspiring.

Really awesome episode guys. As a maybe intermediate reloader, the relationship between pressure and case volume is something that always made sense to me. I never really thought about the bore volume in its relationship to pressure though. the discussion about the 9mm bore being the same diameter as the case and why that requires the much faster burning powder as opposed to rifles just clicked a whole bunch of puzzle pieces into place in my brain. Thanks for releasing this!

Excellent podcast as always. It's great to hear the experts talk that actually know whats going on. Could you guys do one on primers? Small vs large, standard vs magnum? Thanks

I believe you made an inaccurate statement about surface areas of different size granuals. You said that larger the granules, the more surface area it would have compared to smaller granules. The smaller granules of the same volume as the larger granules would have more surface area due to the percentage of the flake or granual that is exposed. This leads to a faster burn rate for smaller flakes. Think of it in terms of something like ice. Ten pounds of crushed ice will melt faster than a solid 10 pound block of ice due to the percentage of surface area exposed to higher temperatures than 32°. This is one of the reasons that flake powder, such as shotgun or pistol powder, has a faster burn rate than an extruded rifle powder. I'm not trying to be nit-picky with your podcast. I enjoy every one of them.

I'll have to thank my wife for keeping the house at 74 degrees year round and to you gentlemen for lots of good information

I wish all industry media was this useful. Most of it is infotainment that’s devoid of any real meat.

Really looking forward to this one guys!

Once again thank you for the time and effort you put into this podcast, it is tremendously appreciated.

Another aspect of bore volume vs. burn rate that didn't get mentioned is barrel (bore) length and its relationship with burn rate. Using your example of the 9mm vs the .243, the 9mm bore volume does increase faster, but since it is much shorter (usually), the volumes will end up being similar...but the 9mm powder needs to be faster not only to fill up that more rapidly increasing volume, but to also finish burning in the shorter barrel.

Great discussion. Keep these coming!

Definitely enjoy these types of podcasts guys thanks for all your hard work an effort 👌

Thank you for this information. It explains some weird stuff I’ve seen. I live in southern Az and for the most part store everything in climate controlled environment but after a range day ammo might get left in the vehicle for a few days and temperatures can exceed 150 degrees f this explains why I occasionally see pressure issues

That was an hour well spent. I learned a great deal. Thanks.

Please keep loading in the rotation of these great videos!

Thanks guys for running through all this info. I keep mine in ziplocks with 50 % humidor packets.

Another great episode.

Great explanation on powder peak pressure time. These podcasts are very helpful to the reloading community.

Great job guys!

There is a good write-up regarding pressure on page 55 of the Speer #12 Reloading Manual. They look for an average expansion of 0.0003 with no individual reading over 0.0005". They state that this is generally accepted as representing pressures in the 50,000 CUP range with typical cases. Cases used more than 3 times become work hardened which result in false readings. Hornady comment on this on page 72 of their Hornady Handbook of Cartridge handloading, 8th Edition. " An accurate blade micrometer can be a useful instrument for detecting excessive pressures. By measuring new case dimensions before and after firing, you will be able to note signs of excess pressure. On belted magnum cases you should measure the belt. Careful measurement of this dimension of new cases before and after firing reflects chamber pressure. Measure rimless cases just in front of the extractor groove or rimmed cases immediatly in front of the rim will reveal symptoms of excessive pressure in these cartridges. When these results are compared to similar measurements on factory rounds, a reloader can approximate a safe upper pressure limit."

Wish there had been a discussion on the types of propellant available to the OEM Ammunition maker and the Reloader, and the fallacy of attempting to identify the propellant pulled from OEM manufactured ammunition.

Great video guys THANKS GUYS!

Would like to see a list of powders that you would recommend for long-term ammo storage and ones to stay away from. Thanks

One thing I wish you would have covered in this podcast is similar nomenclatures among different brands and why one can be good for a cartridge and one wont be. Example IMR 4350 and H4350. How did they come to have the same # in the name and how can they be vastly different.

I had only one professor in college that could reduce complex mathematical and physical concepts down to the nuts and bolts, where I could understand what happens if I tightened or loosened one or the other. Doctor Jaydan and Doctor Seth are now the second and third. Great job! Take a little bit out of petty cash and the rest of the day off.

25:30 Wait, you mean to tell me that there are reloaders out there who haven't poured out a small amount of propellent and took a lighter or match to it? Hell, as kids, we used to take fireworks and open them up to get the powder out of them and into a mound and light it, where I'm from, we called them "Genie's" because it was like the flash and smoke plum that would appear right before a Genie came out of the lamp in the cartoons... Speaking of which, since 4th of July is just a few days away..... LOL What is explained starting at about 40:20 is also basically the explanation of why seating a bullet deeper off the lands will _"typically"_ cause a reduction in overall peak pressure for the same charge for anyone who's ever wondered that. If the bullet gets a running start at the lands, it is easier for it to engrave into the lands and keep going (i.e., total case/chamber and barrel volume increasing at a more consistent rate) whereas a bullet seated out touching the lands (or really close to or worse, jammed) do not get that running start and therefore is taking more force to initially get going. This results in a total volume that is not increasing as fast as the gasses are being formed from the burning powder so pressure rises faster which in turn, as mentioned earlier in video, causes the powder to burn faster, which in turn causes the pressure to rise and the cycle repeats until the bullet really gets moving down the bore.

Great info. Thanks guys. Answers so much for us all.

Really good pod cast interesting and informative I learned a lot listening to you guy thanks for posting this 👍👍

I love these podcasts..... The graphics of the cartridges are all jacked up.

Love this one. Good job

I use H4350 for .270 Win, H Varget for 30.06 Sp. H1000 for 6.5 PRC.

I would LOVE to hear a pod cast on bullet designs and how each one responds to the different barrels and powder types, and the best seating depths for said designs.

You sure open my eyes on a lot things thank you

Please consider a podcast on explaining the difference between loading for auto loaders vs bolt actions and why someone should not use your .243 rifle ammo in a semi-auto.

Love this discussion ❤❤

Excellent stuff guys!

Great video Always learning something.. Really interested in finding out what powders are are better for long term storage.

I had come up with an unbelievable load with superformance for a 6.5 when it was winter out and no pressure signs used the exact same load in the summer when it was hot as hell out and ammo was sitting in the sun the pressure was unbelievable. Blowing and piercing primmers. Pressure was beyond excessive

been waiting for this one.

Great podcast guys!

Good stuff gentleman! I had some post ww2 12 gauge shotgun shells with the paper cartridges and I shot 3 of them and fired fine. I didn’t expect them to fire at all!

Love to see another podcast on advanced powder, which ones deteriorate and why, more storage tips. I vacuum seal mine, I wonder if I vacuum the air out of the cartridge it’s bad? Should I let it equalize prior to using?

Great discussion. Thanks.

My father and I have been reloaded for 20-plus years and we are in a nice golden age of powders we have choices now that we didn't have back then

Simple rule prevents wrong powder use, only 1 powder out at a time! To include swapping, cleaning, changing all devices. Powder chucker, trickle charger, ect. 1 powder means everything! Human complicity is the demon!😮

Good stuff, gents. Thanks!

Several of the new p ropellents are a mix of geometrys also. I've seen spherical combined with a semi-spherical etc. Nice information, not really unknown for me, but great info.

I cycle my CCW ammo every 6 to 12 months.

Great information! Would be great to have a second episode on powder to get even deeper. One thing to talk about is why propellant is NOT done certain ways. For instance: - Why is propellant not in the playdough state? Couldn't the burn rates be controlled chemically and nullify shape? - If nitroglycerin is used, why isn't plastique used in propellants or even instead of nitrocellulose? - Why doesn't firearm ammo mimic artillery ammo in terms of having preset charges? These charges could easily be dropped into a cartridge, or going back to muzzle loaders and eliminate the cartridge? - I know there was a firearm built in the 1960s that used jet fuel that flopped of course. - etc, etc, etc....

Great info thanks for sharing

Another good one

I love the smell of gun powder in the am

Can you talk more about sealing ammunition in a future episode. For those of us that live and load in a certain environment, but then travel to hunt and/or shoot in another, this may be a worthwhile thing to consider.

Great discussion. I would really love to know how much of a discernable difference you can expect from different lots of the same powder. For that matter, bullets too.

Wow very interesting.

What would be an acceptable range of temperature and humidity in your reloading room/powder/bullet storage? Asking for rifle gun powders.

I did some wildcatting where there was no load data. 6mm Remington Ackley, 338 JDJ #2, 308/350 Rem Mag (belt machined off), and others. Regardless of what the "experts" say, load development is 10% science and 90% voodoo and if you think otherwise, then do not attempt to work up loads without established load data or you may experience laws of physics that can hurt you very badly. Working up loads is done slowly with careful measurement and documentation. Eventually I found powders that liked my cartridge/ bullet combinations without large surprises in small increased powder charges. If you are working up loads from scratch, expect a lot of time and effort. If you want to cut corners and "assume" based on similar cartridge capacity, etc. then expect an unwanted result because eventually, it will happen.

Another insightful podcast. Thanks. As a handloader, I would have loved to see each of your individual approaches to developing a starting point load from the Hornady Handbook and in a caliber which you've never loaded.

What's holding us back from large pressure increases, traveling charges or some way to hold a longer pressure spike, and good sabots especially ones that could be used in a smooth bore? It seems like to me we are just refining the technology from 100 years ago and some things with advancement in materials and technology like 3D printing we should be getting close to a major jump.

does adding sealant to the case mouth and primer affect pressure enough to change accuracy?

Great pod-cast covering why in the heck are there 160 different powders and maybe you guys can do one on different primers. As a new reloader and the constant Easter egg hunt for needed primers and just what happens when go off your Bible of reloading and use say a Mil-spec vs a Magnum or a standard instead of the Magnum, etc…

I only burn powder that is temp sable, some of the powders mentioned are horribly temp sensitive and get crazy with high temps and humidity.

Reloading for 300 win mag. Wondering if case fill isn't full, can you adjust seating depth to help with that issue and see better results?

for Jayden and Miles, would be great if the burn rate chart can be updated, say each with a number/score out of 100, ie 2 powders can be next to each other, but closer to the the powder on it's other side then each other... I know you can alter it by temp and volume (ie seating depth).. What i'm thinking is rate chart where each have a score, the power was say occupying the same % of space in a container - so as to level the "playing" field.

All I want to know is what kind of powder you guys are using in your 7mm prc 175 grain eld-x shells and how much?

does adding sugar to the propellant, in the manufacturing phase increase energy?

What is used to seal ammunition at the primer? Same the bullet end?

I have always handloaded, beginning with the ww2 milsurp stuff. I sized flashholes, weighed cases and thought I was prudent. This podcast taught me all kinds of things. Question about the powder column configuration. Wouldn't a long narrow powder column provide a more consistant burn? The opposite of the newer short/fat case design. A smaller diameter case , the column directly over the flashhole( with a full column) should me more consistant. I have always thought this and you suggested that if the column slumps away from the flashole the burn would be less consistant in theory( as I got this) Would not a long powder column of a .375 H&H provide more consistant results over the .375 Ruger? Especially with a less than full chatge. Regards, Tony.

🧐 Wouldn't I expect to get better accuracy out of a powder (out of my 270 Winchester) with IMR 4831 - because it has less grains - than let's say Magpro (if I was using both to their maximum load rate and if both (as you say) filled the case so their was no empty space left to vary the ignition distribution within the case, even while shooting on a slope/hill)? 🤔

I've always wondered when looking at actual velocities of a personal rifle vs. the velocity of a charge weight listed in a manual, can the charge weight be increased until my velocity matches the book velocity? assuming the barrel is the same length as what was used in the manual. maybe a better way to ask it is, is the velocity in the manual, a better indication of max charge than the weight listed is? I've noticed that different cans of powder have required more or less powder to get the same velocities as other cans of powder.

I'm don't reload and I definitely don't know much about it but, I have bought some reloads (5.56) from freedom munitions and it was the worst ammo I ever shoot. It had a light load of gun powder and it was very dirty burning and corrosive and wasn't accurate. If you let your gun sit more than a day without cleaning it, it started to turn green. On the other hand, I got some of the AAC 77gr otm ammo from PSA and it's very accurate but dirty burning at least it's not corrosive like the powder freedom munitions uses.

Greetings and salutations. Any chance of a Let's Talk Powder Part II specifically focused on revolvers and straight walled cartridges/lever action rifles?. Powder choice and bullet type for; plated, coated, or lead. What type crimp for each type of bullet. How OAL affects pressure. Thanks. Kindest regards.

In your testing for how the temperature affects burn, have you noticed a minimum temperature that ammunition work better, say 90 degrees or so?

Interesting 🤔 Hello from Ukraine 🇺🇦 Thanks for sharing expertise 😊

Overall this video was fantastic. Like others, the “bore volume” // the size of the bore in relation to the chamber/case body hadn’t occurred to me as a factor. Wow! I had no idea that temperature fluctuations over time could affect propellants. Thank you. I found the “3 legged stool” metaphor a little confusing. Geometry I understand - more surface area burns faster. Chemistry makes sense in terms of coatings to control the burn rate. However, “pressure” doesn’t seem like the right word choice. I don’t know whether “energy per unit of weight” is what he means or energy as controlled by case and chamber geometry or what. For example H4895 and VV N-135 are very close on burn rate charts, but look at the weight of powder for a maximum load for a 165 grain SST. Max load shown is 43.3 grains for H4895 but only 38.7 grains for N-135. Granted the N-135 max load is a little bit slower (2,533 vs. 2,600 fps) but even if you down-load H4895 to match velocity you’re still going to need more powder (by weight).

You guys should make custom powders or blends, that get the most out of your match and eld lines of projectiles 🤙

24:00 actually in a video with Joyce Hornady years ago, he shows lighting powder. I think it might be one of his reloading videos he did. EDIT: Haha, Jayden just mentioned that video.🙂

and hornady uses proprietary powders,and will not share some load data

How can i control jump in a rifle appose to punch i would rather have rifle push into my shoulder than jump recoil as i shoot. Is there powder that can help that Jaden any info can help

Thank you .

Powder burn characteristics vs. moisture content: Norma's Reloading Manual No.2 has a great article on the topic, with measurements!

6 ARC Brass when?

This may be a dumb question, but how does seating depth effect velocity?

Dear Hornady, if I wanted to reduce my powder charge of a larger case volume to slow down the projectile speed (say 108 eldm from a 6 creed) to say 2800 fps, but still wanted to remain near or at max case fill percentage, would it be safe to switch to a slower burning powder than say an H4350 burn rate, to allow the case fill to reach back to a full case fill?

Do powder manufacturers publish a progressivity chart or a "burn pressure chart" that characterizes how the powder burns to sustain maximum pressure for the maximum possible time?

What would you suggest to water proof ammo?

what does the application of sealant have on the pressures all other factors being equal?

Many different applications for some powders, not so much for others, person need to READ a reloading manual and pay attention to where powders are used, and with what bullet weights, from a .22cal to a .500cal. Compare a .223Rem and a 30-06 and a 375H&H and a 450-400NE and a 45-70 and 500NE, and their listed powders, to the usage of those powders in other cartridges from 22 to 50 cal, it will surprise you where what can be used, or not used, where it performs well, where its listed and suddenly is mediocre in performance

I've seen videos on making nitrocellulose... It isn't a complicated process. But control of the burn rate and resulting pressure is the real "sciencey" aspect of it. Throw in nitroglycerin to make double base powders and it would probably get a bit "sporty" to manufacture.

I reload about 50 calibers 1 powder at a time min to max 1/10 of a gr ata time to get the most accurate projectile i can 223 to 45-70 38 to 45 colt got lots of data always by the book

Is factory ammo sealed around the bullet and primer?

I learned LITTLE bit about explosives as a Combat Engineer. I was wondering if a shape charge effect could be used to any effect to a rifle cartridge? Or if a vortex effect from the primmer could be actually aid ignition? Like a deep "V" internal cartridge base with 3 higher angled flash holes and the lower small flash hole at the very base of the "V". If anybody was to look into something like this I would bet Hornady would.

A little question: : What about PCC carbine or lever action ones chambered for revolver rounds. Doesn't the rounds charged with pstols fast powders behave less than optimally in guns with barrels way longer than originally intend ? Is there factory loads for this use like 9mm for PCC or lever gun 44 mag ? I recently discover this podcast serie:. It's very interestting.

❤ 8:37 “Boom-Spaghetti.”

What happens if the bullet is just touching lands and grooves. Wouldn’t this build pressure immediately

I'm not sure why y'all keep referring to pistol powder and shotgun powder As if there's a difference, I haven't found a single pistol powder that i can't use in a shotgun.The biggest difference from a shotgun over a pistol. Is the huge amount of volume so it doesn't create as much pressure. And that is because though it shoots a heavy load. There's almost no resistance going down the barrel with the way a shell is made... try pushing a 9mm bullet down the barrel by hand. It's not going to happen. You're going to damage the bullet or the gun.Thus is why you need a little bit longer barrel for a shotgun to get full velocity, with the same powder. Because It's like. y'all said. There's not enough resistance, so it won't build more pressure than the resistance It's put under.... love The channel. Correct me on anything. What I may be mistaken on.

What is the best powder for 7mm08?

Is a difference between herolics2400 and Alliant 2400 powder. Excuse my spelling please.

I totally get that y'all don't wanna throw a product under the bus when their not there to defend themselves. But you need to put out the word on what powder(s) are prone to rapid degradation and corroding copper/brass. It's a safety issue as well as a financial one. If you load up 1,000 rounds of whatever that was, store it in a closet for a few years, then try to shoot it, then best case you notice the corrosion before shooting and you're out all the time and money in components and loading. Worst case, the corrosion is not obvious, or someone is a little... slow(yep those guys reload too), and you fire it and have a catastrophic failure in the unsupported section of the case. That should have been a PSA on every possible platform and channel you could get it on the day you found out about it. So please do the community a favor and let us all know so we don't waste time, money, and components or worse. Thanks