Ethically, Should You Have a Baby? 

You don't really live then.

@@sc7597 did that sound poignant in your head? help me understand your worthless statement

@Sean i agree. i sure would've rathered not been born. did you think i was replying to the original comment or something? i was replying to SC stating the obvious like the original poster didn't know that or needed some kind of bullshit response SC gave

God you commies are truly a menace to society

@@bocchithean-cap3404 Calm down, McCarthy, just because someone holds views you disagree with doesn't mean they're communist. Communism has some rather specific barriers to entry.

I know right. I literally paused for 2 minutes because it bothered me that much.

They are on the right side of history, don't you know?

Having 2 children is the minimum replacement rate. It is appropriate to say "only" as that is a meagre amount.

The cost, carbon footprint, etc. of a child raised in poverty vs raised in the West is different. But the carbon footprint of a child isn't so bad... The biggest contributors to climate change are unsustainable industries. It's like I hear people complaining that electric vehicles are actually dirty because the electricity they use is dirty but bruh it's a flexible element within the system. A gas car only uses fossil fuels, an electric vehicle CAN use solar and wind energy but the weakest link in the chain (our energy grid) is being hindered by special interests. Same goes for children. Good education, critical consumerism/minimalism, raise them with the right habits and they're an EV waiting for society to improve and receptive to its upgrades.

Why? Because you think it "shames" the greedy people who have more?

Nobody said that is why we should have kids ,where did you get that from?

It is sick evil twisted, Robin Angelique.

​@@dude9318 Yes, breeders and breeding defenders say that and all kinds of worse hypocritical shit. Cuntservaturds do nothing but STRAWMAN what Marxists, Communists, animal rights vegans, antinatalists, atheists, climate scientists, evolutionary biologists say and do. So ANYTHING at all is justified to say about cuntservaturds.

how? they are simply making sure that their children wont go through the mistakes of their forefathers

@@dude9318 Hannah Arendt who was mentioned in the video, the part about “Natality” where she says the future generation can save us from disasters and that having children is a form of having hope

Yeah and that's a fun way to adress climate change like "studies have shown that you could cut off 100% of your emissions by killing yourself"

Climate change climate change climate change you people are like a broken record

Frustrating and disgusting

@@judithpriestess7781 again you people are a broken record

It is also what we have been doing about every long term problem since the dawn of civilisation.@@judithpriestess7781

If only my parents made this very sensible decision. (But same, I have conditions that are both genetic and based on trauma, I really don't want to give that to someone else.)

Same for me!

The irony is that people who are aware of why the reasons why they shouldn't have children are probably best suited to be parents. Sadly most people who do become parents lack this introspection and continue the cycle of abuse

@@supreethmahadeva5262 People that do become parents often are aware of it and justify it by saying that they are aware of it and thats why they'd be good parents.

Most mental illness is caused by neurotoxins due to a combination of lifestyle and diet. You've been socially engineered to think it's normal, and to think big pharma meds are the answer - neither is true.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

Considering how much child abuse there is in the world, humanity doesn't really deserve any children until we fix this problem

Hard to justify birthing a child out of hope, when you could have adopted instead.

It's a lot of work to adopt a child. You can even be denied from doing it.

The parents who deserve children don't have them because they love them so much they won't bring them here because of the possibility they might experience many bad things.

Yes your child needs to look like you Evolution created sexual reproduction for a reason

Absolutely

Golden words🤌🏼

I’d thought the same, then realized the cost 😳

But it's not the same. Having a kid that comes from you and your loving one (basically a result of both) isn't the same as having one from another couple. Even if you can give as much love to both.

I agree, Im probably reiterating this alot in the comments. I have said before that there is no lack of hope, yet surely there is a abundance of forsaken children.

Thats because the expense of adopting is usually far greater than just squeezing out a kid. Plus the legal process is a massive pain as well. And a lot of the kids up for adoption have issues due to parental drug use/abuse/neglect. Adoption sounds nice until you actually look into it. Thats why many families foster instead. Less expense, less process, less commitment.

nick I get that, and 2/3 of those reasons are sound, it is very expensive and legally tough, but I feel like if you genuinely are dead-set on being a good parent, and are a reasonably good person, unless the kids are actively trying to hurt you, adopting kids who have “issues” is a very good thing to do. Providing a loving home, I think, could really help with previous pains and traumas, and a kid that had drug-addicted parents and is never adopted will almost certainly have a very hard, very sad life. Maybe I’m too optimistic, but I feel like as long as you are a legitimately good, patient person in stable living conditions, you should adopt children who have gone through hardship and do your best to give them support they may need.

@@kohlcooke8789 it's exactly those kids who need the stability of a good home the most. Society needs them as much as they need us because in my opinion a society should be judged on how they treat the people who need help the most. The Eugenics movements thinks we need to get rid of disabled people to further the human race yet it was Steven Hawkins that furthered the abilities of humans like no other. This nation has garnered a lot of power that comes with these kinds of responsibilities and we should be proud as a nation that a can actually solve these problems and not shy away from a challenge such as troubled or disabled kids.

fair point

Wow, everything you said is so similar to my own thoughts/experiences. hope you're doing ok ❤

That's very relatable. And the idea of raising a good person willing to help others is quite noble, but we don't really need to make new people to raise or educate, we can try to help and educate people who are already here. We can also adopt, even if the whole process is often quite strenuous and complicated, and just by adopting we're already setting a good example, as long as we do so responsibly and commit to that responsibility, of course. Still, that's something that can be done, but it's not an obligatory thing to do. Like I said before, we can be positive influences on the world and people around us in many ways and with everything we do or choose not to. Choosing not to have children, for example, can be a good influence for people who might also not want to but feel pressured by others to choose so, thus validating their choice not to.

The fact that you are able to make this assesment might mean that you would make a great father and therefore would raise great people, and this is what this world needs, great people! In my mind, if you think yoylu have the ability of being a great father then you totally should. Make a positive impact on the world trough your kids and hopefully have them make a greater positive impact trough their kids.

My question for you is that do you wish you had not been born? Perhaps you didn't have a great childhood, but I am willing to bet you would rather exist than not. This is at least what most people I know say. I think your child would also rather be born than not. You have to remember that life in a developed, western county is far far better than most of human history even if you are poor. You only have to be a better parent than on average and you are already improving the world. And also, planning how many children you have is an incredibly new conception, most humans that have ever existed were not planned.

@@themasstermwahahahah I can't speak for the OP. But I think I'd rather have not been born even though I have a relatively good life. It's all just so exhausting. I make a lot of money but I hate my job, so now I'm in grad school part time to be qualified for a better job, which pretty much means I'm tired and stressed every day, and will be for the foreseeable future. I reflect on my childhood/life and realize my greatest blessing in life was my ability to get to the age of 20 without realizing how awful everything is. My life is pretty much coasting forward on the momentum my younger more passionate self had built up, and even though I'm going through the motions of "securing my future" it's hard to imagine a day will ever come where I get to do things that I want, and have engaging work or just not feel so damn tired and anxious all the time. It's hard to imagine that at some point in time, I'll look back on the unending torment I've experienced since graduating undergrad, and think to myself it was all worth it... But we'll see.

Here's hoping you avoid a lot of the bullying childfree women are subjected to.

@@johnnygraz4712 I'm used to be the topic and target of bullies since I met my mother, since I was born.

I salute you! ANTI-NATALISM: because nonexistence never hurt anyone. Blank lives matter.

But muslim hijabi brainwashed girl will produce 5-6 kids to takeover non Muslim lands

I am 29 and I agree. Why put a poor innocent child through the suffering that is life

Indeed! Lets make sure that we take care of the humans who are actually here first, before popping out new spawn 👍🏻 Lets hope people are going to take it down a notch, ‘cause come on…7 billion in 200 years? That’s insane 😬

How many kids have you adopted?

@@liquiddrums42 Contrary to popular belief we actually do not have enough new people being born! The population issue is not overpopulation, its underpopulation! And that people are living too long lol

@@chillociraptor5007we aren’t facing underpopulation

Clown

Damn right

I feel like the "us vs them" mentality is really getting old. There's been horrible people and really wonderful people in every generation. Blaming everything on one group of people isn't going to fix our problems now. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't there a lot of people from that generation that pushed for social justice and were some of the first to make the world more aware of climate change to begin with?

Is the same thing not true for genetics?

Preach

And then our children will make their own mistakes and cause their own problems as they work to fix ours and becomes what the next generation has to deal with. We living here today are as much victims of what the past generations did as future generations will be victims of us.

yes that is indeed how progress works, each generation has new problems to solve.

But they're not even letting the newer generations make changes, because "The way the boomers had it is the way it should be"

"There is a mysterious cycle in human events. To some generations much is given. Of other generations much is expected." -FDR I'm also going to point out that most people prefer that their parents didn't abort them, and that western, modern life is 100x better than throughout the rest of human civilization.

@@themasstermwahahahah it has always astounded me at how…. Bitchy people are. We live better than kings and queens of old. We have taken for granted things that people just 50 years ago couldn’t even imagine. But instead of wanting to see how we can evolve and progress into the future, we have idiots thinking they are high minded for being whiny brats.

Children are needed to keep the species alive. There no other real meaning, nor a moral way to follow. It’s just biology

@@samb123078 even if one lives life with only happiness and zero suffering, it all gets ripped away at death. Wherever there is life, there will always be suffering from losing everything you once held dear. Not having to exist and deal with this in the first place removes that burden entirely because no harm or suffering can be inflicted on something that does not exist.

It's hilarious and bleak that that's cited as the unselfish reason to have kids. Putting your hope of the world being fixed, even a little, in children that don't yet exist is extremely selfish.

but if we tell those who can parent that they're evil for wanting children, that leaves all the people who CAN'T parent children birthing all of them, because they won't wear condoms

@@GurvanCustom Oh, absolutely! One of my worst fears is that I'd be anywhere near as bad of a father as my own. Celibacy for me!

👏👏👏

EXACTLY. THINKING people are choosing either not to have children or plan carefully before having children. It is the UNINTELLIGENT who are having children WILLY NILLY. BEST BET- DON'T HAVE CHILDREN- THERE ARE FAR TOO MANY CHILDREN on this planet.

Absolutely true.

Tell us how you really feel don’t be scared

Totally. And I'm mature enough to realise that I shouldn't have kids.

I think I’ll do the same, I have mental illness wouldn’t want it to pass down.

Great point!

Yeah. Climate change is overrated. Climate change will be the last thing that will kill us. There are much bigger threats out there that could end civilization.

The powerful people most responsible for climate change are banking on that fact.

We shouldn't view future generations as being obliged to fix the mess we are creating for them. That is simply sadistic to bring someone into the world so that they be forced to fix problems we create for their whole lives

It’s been proven right tho, we exist so we not? We live longer, do we not? Arguably, humanity is far safer today than before.

@@KateeAngel they will obligated anyways because they will become their issues, and if they don’t solve it they face the complication. This has always been this way, for every species.

@@odst2247 no one can technically be obligated anything, survival instinct kicks in even in the face of suicide which is a lot harder than most people think and frankly im pro-right to die even in cases of depressiom because this whole obligation, pro-life nonsense makes me sick.

@@morphor You're right, you have 0 objective obligations. Along side that, looking at the universe there is also fundamentally no meaning to our existence (although, we can define our meanings) Regarding Depression, It's a disease so i am against encouraging or supporting any suicide's. That would be similiar to supporting people with say diabetes, just letting themselves ago to die. However, depression is worse because it warps your perception of reality. If however, a perfectly human, say 70 years old wanted to die, i wouldn't care. But with depression, whos really choosing suicicde? The diseae or the person?

Woah, you're ahead of your time.

Plus loosing sleep not able to shut them up and the forever cleaning after them. Still gonna have to help them when older too . Then them getting depression or bipolar disorder . It’s all bad.

Update: I moved up my surgery, and I got them removed on Friday 😁

@@MumfordnSons77 congratulations 🍾🍾🍾

​@@MumfordnSons77 I think you are absolutely courageous. Hope the surgery goes well. Take care

In a practical sense, I disagree. Overpopulation is a problem of distribution and logistics, which can be solved. In a different sense, I don't think the human mind was ever meant to grapple with the concept of being one in 8 billion. It sure makes me feel worthless.

Look at the birthrates DUMBO!!! Fertility rates around the world (except West Asia and Africa) are drastically going down. Buddy pump out 12 kids or else the world will burn.

​@@moisuomiThe world will burn? Uh, I'm pretty sure the world will cool down without so many people born

Hasn't every time in history been at least to some extend, fucked up?

@@Manticorn Someone finally said it. Overpopulations is not a remotely real issue anytime soon. The problem will always be getting the resources to the right locations, not if we produce enough resources.

🙌🏿💯

We definitely live in times of unprecedented change. Even if you personally aren’t saddled with the myriad of systemic economic hardships of late-stage capitalism, how can you confidently instruct a child about the world? It’s changing faster than ever before, and we exist in a liminal space between pre-climate collapse and post-collapse. You can’t know what you’re inviting a new life into. And that’s why I’m not keen to have kids.

People in third world countries don't have those same issues apparently because they are having a lot of children. Much much more than people in first world countries who live way more comfortable lives.

@@Qsaws_ That is not true. Look at the statistics. Birth rates in third world countries is very similar to those in western counties.

@@Qsaws_ I live and work with families and schools in the third world country, we are having a ton of kids because the country lacks sexual education, birth control plans are taboo by the church, and most of this kids grow in horrible homes and families, where one of them has enough money to sustain all the family but therefore cannot live its own life. So yeah, having kids is for those mentally and financially stable, otherwise you have a lot of issues (gangs with kids, armies with kids, drugs, unemployment, broken families etc..)... to deal with.

If only all people were that responsible.

@@hardware199 that´s exactly what I think too.

Chronic depression that periodically goes into the severe category. Yeah I think I'm gonna spare others from dealing with that

We need to promote it as well.

Adoption is a great expression of love but it still doesn't address the reason a lot of people dont have kids, namely affordability. If i adopted a kid, not only would i still pay for their cost of living but the also when i think about how much college will be in 20 years given it's projected rate i still cant bring myself to adopt based on how much debt my parents went into just to raise me in a middle class life. It's fucking stupid and evil how much we grabt capitalism to grow based in the rich splurging and the poor going into debt.

Why is having a biological child so bad? Is having a proper heir evil?

Wisest decision you ever made, my friend.

I'm in my late 50s, and I have yet to meet a voluntarily-sterilized person who regretted the decision. On the other hand, I've met a bunch of parents who regret reproducing - even if they truly love their kids.

@@johnnygraz4712 regretting reproducing is the worst, having kids is unnecessary

I did the same, 2 years ago and I am about 30. I did it a bit impulsively to get it for free while in the army just before getting out :)

While certainly understand it from a logical perspective, you would surprised at how much more driven you are when have a family to support. And maybe less prideful as well. I became a father while I was in medical school and even as an adult I wasn’t ashamed to ask my family for money, take out loans, sell my magic cards, consoles just so my son had food and shelter. If I was a lesser person, I’d imagine I would be bitter towards my to my new born son. So the real question is; which type are you?

I don't have children, but I often hear people say having kids was the best thing that happened to them. I supposed "the best thing that ever happened" would be worth any price. Though I suppose people usually decide this after the fact, not necessarily going into parenthood with that expectation.

Just adopt one in your price range and save years worth of costs

Just be sure to let your significant other know before you marry. Go watch The Road, decide: are you the wife that bails out at the beginning or the dad that did everything he can to keep his child safe no matter the odds. Both are selfish acts but it’s your choice.

@@samb123078 having a family to support is your only drive?

Is not having children more moral than having children.

Have they not covered Jonathan Swift on this channel yet?

if you are a pit bull it is ethical to eat babies

Please, this is only a modest proposal!

''poor irish people should sell their children to the rich as a delicacy'' and that is a brilliant satire

how horribly selfish of our ancestors who died so you can type this without fears of persecution

People today are not fixing any past mistakes. They are standing in the shoulders of giants. Its not that you expect future generations to be better just because. But because of all the advances they are just handed down just because, that they "should" be better. Is not about selfishness, its about continual growth passed down. But this generations are proving to be too spoiled an ignorant despite all that has been given to them. It might just be that we are the biggest mistake of them all. Time will tell.

@@frostaxcess I wont even bother, So many fallacies and subjective misrepresentations. I people as weak as you are the new norm. Then death does sound good. All of this coming from me who has lived in deep depression because of bipolar disorder type 2. And even I Can see beyond "feelings" and "emotions" to weight objective reality. What you describe has nothing of it in it.

@@frostaxcess Ever heard of selfprojection? But let me elaborate on my perspective, don't get me wrong, its definitely wasted on you, its more for other people who might read this. Life is pain and suffering, for sure, that why its worth it, something given has no value, just like the Olympics, life is all about struggle and fight to rise yourself through the mud into something to be proud of. By virtue of being born you are given the unique chance to rise yourself, be tempered and tested through the toughest trials to become the best you can be. Diamonds cannot be made without proper pressure, Its not easy, because if things worth something were easy to do, any spineless worm would do it. Like you might understand.

@@klaussone “Ever heard of selfprojection? But let me elaborate on my perspective,”

👏👏👏

It is realistic. Every generation is better than the last and our society is improving.

@@principal_optimism New generations are not more moral than previous, they just have to pretend to be because their lives are far more public. That aside, the whole "hope" Argument totally ignores ethics of giving birth to someone into a life of suffering.

@@SuperPank It is more moral than before. We have this whole overinflated consent thing going on right now but I wasn't even talking about moral progress. Mainly quality of life, life expectancy, education, culture, entertainment, work conditions, etc. Moral progress isn't even an easily quantifiable or anywhere near objective measure of society's success, of quality of life, or anything.

@@principal_optimism "things are better than before" doesn't even address any nuances of antinatalism.

@@SuperPank Which nuances? By most metrics, life on earth today is better than ever before in history. We face two key existential crises: A third world war and global warming, but we know more about global warming, ecology, and environmental science than ever before and are more able to combat it than ever, and WW3 is just kind of happening without any major violence.

Sometimes I really think people should get some kind of psych evaluation before having children, similar to adoption. Obviously that wouldn't happen in reality because the execution of such a plan would be disastrous.

@@SleepyMatt-zzz It's weird though. Terrible parents sometimes have amazing kids and amazing parents can have messed up ones. It's such a strange combination of internal and external factors. Parenting classes at the very least you would think. It's amazing how much information is available at the touch of a button but people don't seem to know how to access it.

If your worry is for some biological reasons? Why even consider to put it off entirely when there are alternatives to having kids without them being sourced from you? You could adopt, since you imply you already attempt to leave a positive parent like impression on not your own children but that of your problematic sister.

@@SleepyMatt-zzz I don't think you have to authoritatively impose such screening on all nonsterile individuals. However, you as a member of society, can passively do your part in promoting the idea of foster before birth. Just as fostering isn't the first choice of the majority, birthing can have it's table flipped into being second to fostering.

How are your nieces now? I hope they're doing well

perpetuating the ever grinding machine for the sake of those in the drivers seat.

Then teach your kids to start their own business or find them someone who can. Don't make them victims of your failure to realize your potential by stifling theirs through limiting belief

*labor for rich people

Same my mum would always say”when your kids annoy you and you’re struggling I’ll sit there and laugh”

I think people should have less of their own kids, but I don't think that means they shouldn't turn to the absolute of foregoing kids altogether. Perhaps some people can adopt as a first choice.

There’s no such thing as better for the planet. The planet will exist with, or without us, irregardless of our damage.

People who don't want to have kids shouldn't have them, but people shouldn't be dissuaded en masse and guilted into some over exaggerated sense of responsibility into not wanting kids. Despite the pandemic EU airliners had to fly almost 3000+ empty flights to "retain their slots" but it is you, the individual that has to eat bugs instead of meat, drive an electric car (seen the Volvo research on how "green" electric cars are?) Recycle, etc while rich people through their mega institutions work in ways that pollute the environment at a scale you would never be able to match in ten lifetimes, it's annoying that this discussion even exists, when did existential angst become du jour/synonymous for intellectual discourse?

@@odst2247 yeah but it won't be livable, so whether it still exists is irrelevant.

Kids used to be raised communally, not everyone needs to have them. We should be thinking of how to raise those already here in something more than a two parent/single parent house...and I'd argue teachers.

"they always tried to be a bit better and I think that is really the case with people" I think that is the case with most parents... Even some of the ones who beat there kids. Unforchanetly beating your children used to be legitimate parenting advice.

@@SleepyMatt-zzz your experience is not universal. Neither of my parents was beat and yet both beat me.

@@Ace-pc2cm and if you have kids i’d like to assume you will not beat them because of your experiences with your own parents.

@@BreevoBK yes. My point is things don't always automatically get better. And people often make the mistake of assuming their personal experience is universal.

@@Ace-pc2cm Not even my expirence, just a statement from observation. I also recognize that parents will beat their children because of intergenerational violence or just because they're inherently bad people, but that seemed too obvious to point out, both of which are not excusable. People who used to beat their kids because it was "good advice" seems like something that isn't brought up as much these days, which it should because even if it isn't advised today, it's still a line or rhetoric that got us to the point we're at today, namely making excuses for or justifying demestic violence. So in a round about way there actually isn't anything to disagree on.

Agree, proper education system could solve this problem but as for now I think it is making things only worse.

+1000. When I first saw Idiocracy, the scene that explains the discrepancy in family sizes made me go, "Yes, this is exactly what's happening..."

My boyfriend of 3 years and I are questioning this situation and this video solidified both of our arguments. The vid didn’t give me a confirmed answer, but these kinds of comments make me feel better. We just don’t want a kids experience to be exclusively financial implosion and suffering. We just want them to grow up happy and healthy if we do. It’s looking more and more like we won’t. I just wish everyone could think a little deeper:/

Noone "should" have children. If a person doesn't want to have children for any reason, that is enough to not have any children

@@KateeAngel what I'm hearing from your statement is that "no one should be forced to have children". I wholeheartedly agree. I find it detestable that unprepared men and women are forced to be associated with a child. It was never my intention to imply individuals should be forced to have children.

I mean, not all adults are bad news. 100 children born today could grow up into the politicians who implement laws that help society move past climate change and other societal problems. Or.. even 1 of them could save a building of 20 from a fire that could lead more positivity. On the other hand, those 100 children could grow up into people who do nothing or even make things worse. The point is that we really can't know until they're born and grow up, so why judge them now?

@@Mr.Sniffles I admire your hope. History tells a different story of humanity, but yes, the reason to keep having children is the belief the story can change.

They cannot change the predatory nature of this world. The lion eats the zebra. The politician uses the poor to steal money from the rich. These are stories older than recorded history. Ultimately these are problems rooted in biology.

if your not rich you will only produce a wage slave.

Go to the moon

​@@moisuomithat would be too close to the society that wishes to exploit people. Astronauts might find you and try to collect taxes

@@moisuomi We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy but because they are hard

Aint that the truth. I have been nothing but exploited my whole life. The only reason I'd have kids it to get rid of exploitation. Maybe they could be a boss or something and pay the workers the same as they make. Maybe be a landlord and charge the value of the house in rent every 50 years instead of 10 years.

Same, essentially. I don't think I _ever_ want to have kids myself (mainly because I don't want to have to go through all of the quote unquote 'joys' of childbirth, but also because of the general state of the world right now), but, I may just adopt someday (if I ever find a good enough partner, that is, LOL), so, who knows? :P.

Please adopt. There are a lot of kids who need adoption. No one is asking to be born, and the children who are already born without families need help the most.

Same here! I want to adopt, but not reproduce.

Yes! Please adopt! It's a total net win for everyone in my opinion. I'll always argue pro-adoption.

Meeeeee I'm 22 and I legit cringe at the thought of having one. Children are financial burdens and honestly I think they'll resent me for having them. Kids born in the alpha generation are going to hate their parents for birthing them. With the widening wealth gap, climate change and politicians that can literally take away civil liberties every 2-4 years it's scary.

you can only have a child by being glib, short sighted, and ignorant.

This!! It also make sense when you have a realistic sense of the future (to the best we can predict it)

Are you saying that it takes a psycho to be a parent? No wonder so many parents beat their kids who may also grow up to be parents who beat their kids.

This is a pretty depressing way of looking at life and I partly agree that if your view is this then maybe not having children is the best. Although what you have said is happening in this world, it doesn't mean that it has to be that child's future. People everyday have made something of themselves even coming from poverty. They have turned their sorrow into a story that can help people around them. Unfortunately most people want to avoid pain, but I think instead it's best to teach ourselves first and our future or current children to not run from pain but to embrace it and learn and help others from it. Now that is a story worth talking about!

@@paigevandendam4587 you dont live in reality, you cherry pick the few winners when most do not make it out of poverty. That is being disingenuous . You have a very overly optimistic view of things which isnt your fault because society bashes into your head of that . "Embrace pain" is a very glib thing to say. Embrace cancer, embrace sexual assualt, embrace life long loneliness. Life isnt a game and there will be bad outcomes.

Do you recall what episode that was in? I'd be interested to hear it

@@jwddwj9 oh shit man haha they mention in in a few on "show me the meaning" and "culture binge". Maybe last year or so? Idk. You should listen to all their podcasts. I'm fully caught up and I got to say that there's some of the best podcasts out there and they're definitely worth a listen. Though it is sad when you get to the part in the podcast when you realize Jared isn't with them anymore and you die a little bit inside each time :c

@@autodidacticartisan hey thanks for the response, i appreciate it! I'm going to take your recommendation and just start listening to the podcast. I've been a fan of the channel but I've never listened to the podcast!

@@jwddwj9 you should I listen to mostly science podcasts but wisecrack is also great. Imo

Well... i'd say that's good. If u still want more kids to raise, but don't want to force one into existence, i'd suggest adopting. Millions of kids in the foster system all over the world in need of loving homes.. You don't need to have the same genes as someone in order to be seen as family to them.

Don't be too hard on yourself you acted on the knowledge you had at that time

Didn’t she say she doesn’t want any more kids though 🤣? Why you telling her to adopt?

Least you know

Ah, yes indeed. People readily accept that adopting a pet in need is the ethical choice, but they evade the corollary that adoption a child in need is the ethical choice. So many children in need of help. Poor little kids. There is no need to pass on one's own DNA. Besides, when a woman gives birth, she doubles her own carbon footprint. It is more ethical to adopt a child who already exists. In this way, the woman treads a little more lightly on Mother Earth. And, do you have any idea why your comment attracted the replies intended to entice people to look at pornography? I've seen it elsewhere in the same context.

Damn it, freakin bots lol

@@zeitgeist5134 "There is no need to pass on one's own DNA." Literally every biological instinct and cultural practice disagrees with that assertion. I have nothing against the concept of adoption and likely will adopt, but not at the expense of my own biological instincts. I can and want to do both, and that is a far easier thing to ask of people than merely accepting genetic extinction.

I am a huge adoption advocate as well as fostering. The issue is that the adoption is a complicated process and those that have the time and money to pursue it often times are not the best people to adopt. And those with a ton of money can basically go around most of the steps to just spend money and adopt overseas without any sorta of checks and balances. Meanwhile the foster system is overloaded with kids that need homes and stability.

@@zeitgeist5134 People don't do and don't have the need to do the ethical thing always, so is not really an argument. On the other hand most people choose adoption of pets because the breeding business is known to be horrible and exploitative and think of the mothers not having to give birth on demand and that pure breed have a lot of health problems. So the argument for people don't work unless you know your own genetic kids will be born off a rental womb and have health problems that make them suffer greatly

True

Why eat when people are hungry? Because I simply cannot give an actual fuck about all 3.7 billion people on the planet. No one can, no one cares about their loved ones the same as any random person in another place

Why save new patients when we got current ones to take care of? It's a false dichotomy.

@@sc7597 rather, you present a false equivalency

@@nickthaskater Caring for someone and caring for someone is pretty equivalent. You can't just invoke "false equivalency" when you don't like a comparison haha.

You're wiser than most.

Yeah no kidding..

YES MAM

But the more people there are the more products, and more pollution the corporations make.

"Corporate Pollution" is just the effect of individual's decisions, you could not buy plastics and not consume electricity, but you won't, because then life would be hard

YEP, sad part is that wisecrack knows this they are not dumb. SO this leads to the question; Why are they framing the issue like this? what do they get from this?

@@mateolopez2099 nothing at all, they pretty much say as much by admitting anti-natalism does not really hold up to scrutiny. The point is the debate (also that sweet sweet ad revenue).

@@grayrook8637 yea the ad revenue is the answer. Basically what all RU-vidr's that engage in politics or philosophy need decide. Sacrifice revenue or sacrifice standards...

There's a very old Philosophy Tube video that contradicts anti-natalism/offers a counter-argument. I am not at all conviced by it, myself. But maybe you are. www. youtube. com/watch?v=_bDuNKEzRa8

Last year, CosmicSkeptic had him on and challenged his reasoning. www. youtube. com/watch?v=HeGAeBe7iRM

This was my thinking as well. Sure, new children do bring hope for the future, but hope for whom? The children certainly would not have given a shit had they not been born. So it brings hope for their parents. And having children so you can feel better despite the fact that your children might suffer for it is an innately selfish thing to do. I'm not even saying its wrong to do it. Just that it is selfish.

@@biggerdoofus I haven't watched or heard it yet but the CosmicSkeptic's channel is pretty good and it should be interesting. However, I already went through some of the comments and it seems that although he did challenge Benatar, he didn't really disagree with him, but was more like putting Benatar's arguments under scrutiny, to which they apparently held up.

@@camelopardalis84 Are you sure that's the correct link? I love Philosophy Tube, do you just have the video title?

They are far more likely to be just another person enslaved by the elites of this planet

Based and Jonathan Swift-pilled

This is a beautiful invalidation.

Woooo, slow down there Jonathan Swift

Who's Jonathan Swift

@@reyis_here945 author of The satirical piece "a modest proposal"

this is your subjective, esoteric and unfalsifiable interpretation/belief of what a life is. There are infinite alternative interpretations/beliefs just as valid as yours, which makes your lose value by dilution. know what is not subjective, is easily verifiable and is invariably true? That suffering is the only constancy in all, minimally complex, life. Life is a struggle. you must be unbelievably out of touch and privileged to disagree with that. You may say a forest is pretty, for you, but don't deny the survival hell it is for the creatures who live in it. A constant struggle not to die ... ever noticed how quick, agitated and wary small birds are? you may find them cute, in your misguided and out for touch perception of their realities... but they are in a constant struggle, constantly fighting and running and fighting and vigilant and afraid.... that's why they are so quick, death is everywhere and all is potentially aggressive and potentially fatal. they are scared to death multiple times a day, if not most of their day. take your disney glasses out.

@@juliojap6470 ok schopenhauer

@@srafez9057 haha!

@@srafez9057 MUHAHAHAHAHA I'm honored

@@juliojap6470 you need to think less critically and more imperatively, if you spend all your time identifying problems you leave no time for fixing them, all the while the dread of the task ahead only builds and depression in the face of the big pile of problems that seems from your perspective insurmountable begins to set in. If instead you focus on small surmountable problems and tasks, the dopamine can get flowing again as you can not only perceive your task in more manageable chunks but also pace out the dopamine releases from their completion. Its a happier way to live your life where the management of problems into solvable pieces also as a by-product manages your dopamine levels. Edit: "this is your subjective, esoteric and unfalsifiable interpretation/belief of what a life is. There are infinite alternative interpretations/beliefs just as valid as yours, which makes your lose value by dilution." 1. there are not infinite alternative interpretations, this is because language has a fundamental lower limit on complexity (Boolean) as well as specific syntax and lexical requirements that along with human attention limit the upper bound, meaning only a finite number of interpretations can exist. 2. the existence of other interpretations don't dilute the validity of this one. I could say 1+1=3 or 4 or 5 or 6... there are an "infinite number of interpretations" of 1+1's meaning but they don't make 1+1=/=2. 3. I wouldn't say its unfalsifiable either, the claim we are the universe experiencing its self is a just a claim that we arose from the universe naturally through chemical and then biological evolution, and that we are made of the same stuff as the rest of the universe. All you have to do is disprove Darwin and his bio-chem successors, mind blowingly hard, but not impossible.

Definitely! I was irked by the line in this video about the children solving climate change because we already have the knowledge and tools to do that now. Right now. Us. Current adults.

Yes the point on hope just sounds like impractical wishful thinking. Even if it were true, theres plenty of children that need adopting.

@@kodaxmax this.

It’s not about pushing responsibility onto children. It’s about birthing children and allowing them to decide which responsibilities are worthy of taking on for themselves. You’re assuming that future generations will perceive things the same way that we do today, and the problems we face will be theirs too. This is just people projecting their own insecurities onto children who don’t even exist yet.

And your Child do the same

If only more women had that attitude.

I feel you man. Life sucks balls.

I genuinely enjoy my life and get heaps of meaning from it. I even have a purpose. I'd like to pass that on but understand that these kinds of things are mainly down to genetics and some life experiences that imprint on our brain. Having a better or worse average mood is basically the only thing that determines what people think of this.

@@suicrossunleashed2244 Oh, I'm a coward, definitely. I wish I was dead all the time, but I just don't have the guts to off myself. Ha!

That's the reason I had a vasectomy. Creating someone else and putting them in an existence of pain is the same as randomly torturing someone through neglect.

Having a depressed 15 year old version of me and helplessly watching it suffer, knowing I willingly made it happen - that is my idea of hell

And it's simply procrastinating on your problems by letting another generation solve them. It's not morally right for the previous generations to have created these problems and expect us to solve them, and it's not right for us to hand them over to our children either.

@@user-cx9nc4pj8w Exactly!

Are you sure? Humanity is living in its most peaceful wra

Life is constantly improving globally. Quality of life, life satisfaction, financial security, medical expertise and life expectancy, entertainment, art, food, conversations, ideas, architecture, manufacturing. Year by year we find incredible improvements but due to human nature and psychology, populations will always have a 50/50 pessimist-optimist distribution and the pessimists will not want kids and see things as getting worse while the optimists are correct.

@Brandon Tran Within populations experiencing poverty, they ought to be optimistic. check out how the trend has improved, here. But really, living in poverty has a charm to it. For most of human history, great cuisine, culture, and art came from the peasantry of nations. It was just how the average person lived and now we frame it as a hellscape. I see that as miraculous. Citation: World population living in extreme poverty WB & Bourguignon and Morrisson (Absolute; 1820-2015

Way to be proud of yourself for not doing anything

@@thedudewhoeatspianos way to be proud of not following the stereotipical life and wanting more

@@thedudewhoeatspianos There is immense societal pressure to have a child, so in this case, it's a huge feat to choose NOT to have a child. It's commendable, and something to be proud of.

@@jimbolic0809 dude, not goosh gooshing inside is not a life accomplishment and there are huge communities of childless adults. The decision not to have kids is great if that's what you want, but being proud of it is self-important bullshit.

@@thedudewhoeatspianos For some people, it's a choice only the privileged can make. For them, leaving a toxic community and that mindset is hard to overcome. Have some empathy. Look at cultures like India and religions like Mormonism.

There is no permanent solution for Human problems. If you can't change the world. How the future kids going to change the world?

Btw, I chose not to have kids long ago. :)

Well it takes multiple small scale changes to start affecting the big scale, right?

I feel like the reason for the change is that people are becoming independent of their parents in an unprecedented way, being able to cut out toxicity and entitlement. Thus creating a situation where there is actually a real chance to get rid of generational trauma.

actively sucking 🍆😉 of the government 😂👏🏻

yes.

right on

It’s not just that either they didn’t really dissect the asymmetry between pleasure and pain and why that would or would not really stand they just said children are our hope

exactly!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly this video seems like they're trying to make people who have made the decision to have kids not feel hopeless

@Mr Unknown your theory doesn’t apply to modern day human race with the level of awareness/consciousness achieved. What you said is true for a donkey though

@Mr Unknown I’m neither of the stuff you mentioned. I’ve been through a lot of pain and suffering and I simply came up with realisation that no life no suffering as you said. Hence I decided not to have children when I was a teenager. But you see it’s all subjective someone with amazing life experiences would probably take a different view on life but what’s for sure is pain and suffering is inevitable but there are different levels and degrees to it. All the best

@Mr Unknown I always say to my friends I love my children too much to bring them to earth and expose them to all the suffering and the nonsense we’ve been through. Anyways glad to know your point of view and all the best 🙂

@Mr Unknown no worries at all. I guess I gave the impression by mentioning the donkey lol. I appreciate having a conversation with you today. At the end of the day we are all in this together :)

@Mr Unknown a lot of weird stuff are promoted nowadays. All the dynamics and norms have changed. 12 yo kids can decide upon their gender and proceed with surgery …just mind blowing. This place wasn’t roses and rainbows before but now it’s just something very strange.

It statistically will improve but like it always as.

If you wait until you’re ready to have kids in order to have them, you’re never going to have them, it’s a little known secret but no one is ever actually remotely ready for the ridiculous responsibility of raising a child. But if it wasn’t for people taking that headlong plunge into the unknown anyways, none of us would be here.

@@chase-warwick Fully aware of this, but the cost of living has also gone up drastically in said developed nations. Like the whole nuclear family dynamic doesn't really work anymore cause you basically need two full income streams to support a family. Also statistic I heard is that people had more hope for the future at the end of WW2 than they do currently

@@allthenewsordeath5772 Is that a little known secret? That's what everybody who's a parent I've talked to has told me. But for me it's not about waiting to be ready to have a child, it's about needing time to figure out who I am on my own before being able to share my life with a partner and eventually a child who would be dependent on me

"Cut to a teenage life of babysitting for my extended family and family friends, so many holidays spent watching kids while adults partied"

You can do it. The future is hopeful.

I bet your a lot more motivated to make positive changes to the things around you can affect, then you would be without those kids. Just saying the anxiety probably has a silver lining, just try not to let it drain you.

@@MagusMarquillin you're absolutely correct. As cliche as it may sound, they have made me look at the world through different lenses, in a good way. To where I actively am trying to make the world better than I received it so it is better for them.

@@emanym life is funny that way. You start to give up hope then there is always those couple of moments where you think "Maybe our species will make it after all"

Father of two myself. Quit social media, limit consumption of news, this will help with the anxiety. I also don't worry about all the negativity in the comment secion here. Every generation will need to face their challenges. Some greater than others, but this has been happening since the beginning of time.

Hugs

I'm so sorry, i hope things get better for you

@mr nobody No

Half of the replies (including this one) your comment birthed were spam. Fitting for such a video. As for the content of your specific comment: I had (well, have, but let's not get into that) a mother with a personality disorder that I most definitely didn't inherit, but that still messed me up directly and indirectly in many ways. Important to note here is that she never did anything about that disorder. But I still wanted to make you aware of passing down a personality disorder isn't necessarily the only risk when having children.

Society is rising to the challenge. It's all game theory. 20% angels, 60% indifferents, and 20% malicious types. If you wanna focus on the bad, you see 80% shit, if you wanna look at the good, you see 80% AWESOME!

@@principal_optimism And if you focus on the reality, you'll see 100% of the reality, the gaslighting and you wont have to worry about padding your emotional state with bs to keep sanity.

@@anonnumber8019 You think you see 100% of the reality, my guy? Gimme some examples of good things and bad things that you see, keep it balanced.

@@principal_optimism yeah, thats fucking stupid. "oh its only fair if its balanced!!! You gotta force a balance so everythings not bad!!!" Thats literally the dumbest mindset in this world today but you're not the only one that has it. The world is the way it is today because people like yall try to find a balance with nazis and poisoning our planet. "I know how i'll get him! I'll tell him to list off things and say you have to pick good things! Oh I need a job at CNN because of my debate skills!" Bad: nazis on the rise, planet is going to a climate crisis, viruses are going rampant. Good: At least when it collapses, I wont have to listen to supposed intelligent dumbasses say "Keep it fair and balanced like Fox!" Oh wait, finding a penny counts as good and it equals... idk... antivaxxers. lets see what other type scenario i can fill the hole with... oh, I lost 20 dollars but I found 5. Thats 100% balanced and good!!! damn the math and numbers!!! 75% loss?? No focus on the 25% gain!!! sure, its in the negative, but it counts as a positive to the fair and balanced crowd!!! People died but some celebrities sang "imagine" the world is now in balance!!! you're a regular thanos my guy. lmao!

@@anonnumber8019 It doesn't have to be balanced. I'm challenging you with that because I know it would be difficult, and it's not an ought thing, it's more a way for me to get an idea of just how much positivity you can actually see. You correctly identified the few existential crises we faced: a slight resurgence of nationalism, climate change, the pandemic that our society has so far failed to vanquish... Very well. We're better prepared than ever to handle these existential threats compared to the ones we've faced in the past. Climate change? Was always happening but we lacked the knowledge of how to combat it and how to live sustainable whereas now the science is advanced and big corporations are starting to make some concessions for it. Petrol is being phased out, coal is being phased out for natural gas, a (still shit) intermediary step... But I say it's shit compared to the options we have available and based on modern scientific knowledge rather than any state in the past. Just how I see the current state as shit based on the current science, I think you also see our current world as terrible and no nearly good enough because of the image of a possible world available to you. In so many societies through history, people could scarcely imagine anything greater. People were okay with Feudalism because it looked like the most equal and functional system, yet. The vaccine for the pandemic was found within 2 years, that's the fastest vaccine development ever! and you think antivaxxers are new? We probably have less of them now than before, too. I'm sure it wasn't too hard to convince people that putting a dead virus into their arm was a bad idea back in the past. For each of these, there are counterpoints... LGBT people and ethnic minorities are more represented in the media than ever before, The law has become far more robust in order to defend citizens' rights, Scientific and mathematical revelations occur constantly, Multiculturalism is on the rise, overall. Atheism is also on the rise. Covid should be defeated within 5 years of its inception. 2020-2025 pretty fast, mind you! We healed the hole in the Ozone layer and have substantial infrastructure like breeding programs to keep animals from extinction. Nato is increasing in size, Food insecurity is now almost exclusively a result of war, the infrastructure and production is sufficient for everyone on earth minus direct attempt to sabotage it. Look at the facts, things are getting better no matter how you look at it.

I propose the question, should we force children to give us hope? Personally I find it rather unethical to expect the next generation to be the solution. Like having a child so that they will pay for one's retirement.

From what I perceive, humans can confront having children within a spectrum that starts with it being the most trivial and random thing, like animals do, and to face it like an endeavor or even an entrepreneurial activity, which would involve previous investment, planning, and preparation. Religion doesn't make it easier because most narratives discount the hardships of having a kid in addition to glorifying huge families. My problem with optimistic views about the subject (like Arendt's view) is that they sound more like propaganda/religious views than rational conclusions by diminishing and hiding the complexity of raising a child properly and healthy.

I have no kids but I have a friend who is about to be a dad, he wants this kid because he loves his wife, he loves her so much he wants to make life with her, a little version of her, he wants a kid to raise them right, to be a good person, to be a friend to those lonely kids who have no one and need that one friend to help them on the right path.

History never repeats itself and you can never step in the same river twice. History repeating itself is one of the worst cliches and falls to the slightest scrutiny. Society is constantly improving and on the mend.

@@principal_optimism 'you can never step in the same river twice' LOL that's a huge cliche too, bud.

See: crabs in a bucket thought experiment

Experienced all and now very happy and would not trade the bad as it lead to the good

@@jennifermoriarty2188 good for you. Doesn't mean everyone has the same experience.

Truee

It’s a double edge sword really, the other person’s kids will have less competition in the job market, but will also have to pay more in taxes to support you in your old age.

@@allthenewsordeath5772 our taxes are being used for their children too so that's just fair, lol

@@slimetank394 Exactly, just like how I'm having to pay for other peoples kids to through taxes, I shouldn't have to since I'm not the one who chose to have kids and couldn't afford them resulting in all these people draining the welfare system 🙄

Yeah, that's the glaringly obvious solution to all the "stop having babies for the environment" arguments. All the ethical mumbo jumbo of anti-natalism completely collapses.

I’m no philosopher, but frankly AN seems like what happens when a man’s head is so far up his own ass he sees his intestinal lining and mistakes it for the face of a God he doesn’t believe in. It’s true none of us get to choose the circumstances of our birth, but given the fact that it is considered rather rare for folks to jump off bridges in broad daylight, it is safe to say that the vast majority of us are at the very least somewhat content to keep living. If all these people who go about saying “it is better to die than to live, and it would have been best to not been born at all” really want to put their money where their mouth is, perhaps they should, and leave the rest of us alone. This should seem rather obvious to anyone with a iota of common sense, but population control voluntary or otherwise is no more a solution to climate change, then killing or sterilizing the poor is a solution to poverty.

"Utility for hope and change."? 😆What an obscure egocentric idea. I can just hear it conversationally. Q: "How many "utilities for hope and change are you planning to have?" A: "Oh just one. My first "utility for hope and change" was an accident. I gave her up for adoption." How about people see themselves as a "utility for hope and change", and act like it. 😒

Rationalizing their animal instincts and branding it "hope and optimism"

Basically belief that our kids that didn't create this mess, have the responsibility to fix it, and not we ourselves. That is the most selfish idea!

Except we absolutely will not fix climate change. If the last couple years has taught me anything, it's that humans have consistently proven that we have no capacity to handle small problems, let alone medium or large sized problems.

I hope my kids make it worse lmao

I hope your kids find new parents that aren’t sociopaths

This is valid

@@nonyabiz9340 no, it's not, because that way of thinking merely punishes poor people while giving a free pass to already privileged people. The fact is that everyone should have access to the basic necessities of life because no one chooses to be born. There shouldn't even be a question of whether or not a family has the means to support and provide for children. People aren't stupid, they understand when they probably shouldn't have more children, but often there's not enough access to education and planned parenthood, accidents happen, there might be taboo around contraceptives and abortion, due to religious or other beliefs, and most of those factors aren't exactly things that people can easily control.

@@RicardoPetinga I'm in Brazil and understanding they shouldn't and actually not having more children don't always go hand in hand and it isn't always an accident or ignorance, also, it would be punishment to poor people if it was used on its own without improving poor people lives.

Life, even when poor, is worth living and has been worth living for the past billion years.

So what if you do everything right and then kick the kid out when 18 hits? That's a high probability of homelesness and suicide in this world. You can't just get a shitty job and find a cheap shitty rent like 30 years ago, shitty rents are expensive and shitty jobs are competed for by dozens if not hundreds of desperate applicants nowadays.

Same feeling here