Europa Universalis - The game that broke 3 minute board games 

And just so we are clear, the 3 minute format ain't going anywhere. Normal service resumes on Saturday with Waterfall park in about 3 minutes. Our schedule is trackable here. trello.com/b/NTOjHZkj/3-minute-board-games

Nice one, a great overview of the game. You are totally right about all the merits of this game, it is fantastic! A real suprise for me last year, and I’ll just mention one reason why: the historic event cards. You dipped into it talking about how terrible the effects can be and how everyone needs to choose one each round. What I would add is that as a game mechanism they are one of the best ways I have seen to bring player choice and history into game play. With time players come to realise there are certain cards that come up each Age that are of vital consideration for their kingdom. This might include marriages, heresy, important historical changes regarding the Holy Roman Empire, or Englands presence in France, or some of the critical things that happened in every part of the map. Things aren’t railroaded here, how things turn out, with historical context depends on the different choices that can be made on each card, and of course depends on who gets the card. I hope this makes sense, but from a gaming of history perspecitve I think this game is a huge success. This game is so much fun, that the time flies, and like you say you just want to organise more time playing it. I hope you get some more time playing it soon. Cheers for the review.

Ohh, come on, you could have done a three minute boardgame review of this game. But I do appreciate the longer review, and maybe you should do the occassional longer review when you feel like it. Thumbs up for the review.

I really tried to script one @chrisisisB but it just wasn't working. Not every musical act fits top of the pops, and not every game can fit our format

Bless. And yeah, I have original civ with the cover that looks like obi-wan kenobi on it and we played that so much.

It’s a game I really wish was for me; but I just don’t have the time or group for it sadly

Looks like they've really stayed true to the video game. Quite the achievement. Hopefully it does inspire games designers to consider some aspects in area control games, notably the way this game demands players are more considered in their ambitions, rather than the usual reckless slugfest.

Ian, that's possibly my fav takeaway from the game. That it isn't just "build the most units, kill the enemy dead", it has SOOOOO much more nuance. Charlie. The game also encourages you to make custom scenarios and has robust solo rules. So i can totally see people digging into the crazy ahistoric stuff

There was a board game before the first computer version. It was convoluted and more difficult than this version and even my dedicated gaming friends wouldn’t play past the first few turns (and we played quite a few monster war games together). The first version of the computer game was very close to how the board version worked and I loved that.

That's a huge part of my background, SSI and AH chit and counter wargames.

That's what really matter ain't it.

If i had the spoons and the ability to do it properly or I guess a partner to help id love to do videos or something on WHY to play games. Drilling down on what we like about them and how mechanics tickle our brains

That's a bloody good idea.

Agree. In a world of so many bloated 30-60 minute 'reviews' that are more like detailed walkthroughs of every aspect of a game, it's so wonderful to have these short form videos that just tell me the basics I need to know to know if a game is for me or not in the first place.

Fascinating. Thank you for this perspective.

The bots are pretty damned amazing. This stayed setup on my 2nd table for months

Sounds impossible, mate..

The bots work well and there is an app on bgg to run them. Makes turns super quick if you know what's going on

Just do the solo mode... I've been trying to find a group to play this for 4 months already.

There is another chap who mentioned that game in the comments, he might appreciate your pov on it.

Got a full weekend game coming up in early March!

Normal service resumes on Saturday NZ time ;)

I know right, Mage knight, gloomhaven, Twilight Imperium, those were fine

Fair. It does have a solo mode, but its very full on

Nah, this sorta game is not Stephs jam in person. That said she plays a bunch of Crusader Kings on the PC

Did a 12am to 10pm game of it today. All chaps in our 40s. We did have to book it all 6 weeks in advance mind you

have your tried pax renaissance?

I think this is even hard to table that TI too

Your last two questions answer each other as we only review games that are available to purchase when i do the video. The original EU has been out of print for years.

Well, we've done it for Civilization and Here I stand in the past. I'm sure every city has just enough people for a game ;)

Unlikely to happen sorry. I have not played Pax Renaissance and have no plans to.

@@3MBGpax renaissance is AMAZING. It’s really not as bad as this rules wise but highly recommend

Gloomhaven is not that deep. A pretty straightforward game.

@@lostinsim You are right. Twilight Struggle for example is deeper than Gloomhaven. But to convey the essence of the game in three minutes and why it might be something for you, is much more challenging for GH than it is for TS.

Oh wow, World in Flames is a beast of a game too. Even if the cover makes me laugh every time

@3MBG I just looked it up and there's a newer release called The Price of Power focused at 1-4 players. Have you had a chance to look into that one?

That is this game, its just the core box only whereas this include the Eastern map as well.

I suspect it's not for 95% of people watching ;)

Kia ora John, thank you

As mentioned elsewhere, this is happened "as well as" not "instead of" our normal format. And it's a special

It's the iconography that makes it hard to read though, lol

Yeah, nah. TI's flaw is not its dull and generic sci-fi setting. I can handle that, in fact i've designed two of my own games with their own dull generic sci-fi settings. It's the negotiation style of play in the game. Instead of epic encounters between giant fleets, it's two people arguing for 10 minutes over one trade good deal while everyone else looks at their phone, that is the core of the game. It's a game that will be won by the person who can keep talking for 12 hours until everyone else loses concentration or wants to go home. Also negatives, win conditions that amount to a series of fetch quests and tick boxes. And war is also so all or nothing that you can play a game where everyone turtles because they are too scared to lose anything, because the first person to attack the leader is almost certainly going to lose the game. So people sit on their hands. Almost every game i played of TI3 or TI4 that wasn't my core group of players has been the absolute pits. And my core group much prefers something quicker Like Ascendacy.

@@3MBG fair points

1.8m x 1.2m. It was hand built by one of my friends

@@3MBG Thank you

Ah, i tend to copy the meta data from the previous video and replace. And clearly missed that, will sort

no idea mate as i've never played that one. Looking at its publication date of 1980 i will say that EU benefits from a lot of modern developments in board game design to make it more engaging. So possibly?

speaking from experience: all true

YEP

We've found about 4-6 hours per age with 4 players. So a full 4 age game would be long as. But we've played 2 age games in a day

@@3MBG Great to know. I am strongly considering backing this monstrosity. 😅

That took so long to setup solo.

No one said James Cook was the first European to circumnavigate the globe. At least not in this video. You appear to be correcting a mistake that only happened in your mind

Ah, i said "Circumnavigate Aotearoa", Aotearoa is not the world, its just where i live.

Ah okey! Thanks for the clarification! Great channel btw! Cheers

Yes, a full 6 player campaign is a weekend event, or more. And the rule set is very deep

1.4 x 1.8m i think.

It's playable at any count, my games were all 4 player ones though. 6 is legit a big deal

No idea, not played either

@@3MBG so is safe to say you prefer this over civilization?

Yeah, its more focused and defined. Civ is quite abstract in many ways.

Well, there is also the Europa Universalis pc game already

i could have, but then i'd be like those channels who chop their top 100 into 10 videos to milk the views. And that would make me sad.

Hahahahaha, omg no, never, not that or the stupid north Africa meme game, lol

@@3MBG It's an amazing game but quite long. The Computer game still uses lots of the systems that were in the boardgame.

I assume you didn't watch the video then? Because this is a very unusual game that due to its complexity i couldn't fit into our regular format, that was the whole point of the video. I spent so much time with this game and couldn't do it justice in 3 minutes. It is an anomaly, not a new norm. I already have finished 3 minute recaps for waterfall park, dorf-romantik and Dune ImperiumL uprising that will be coming out over the next few weeks.

In the first 30 seconds he explained that this was the rare game that required more time. What I appreciated was that in the first three minutes, he made it very clear that this was a specific game for a very specific type of player. From that point, I had the information I needed to decide whether I would be interested.

Cheers tommy. The first bit is to set the scene, the bulk of the video is for people who are interested and want to know more. Or who are just intrigued by how over the top it is.

If anyone is every curious about what we are working on, i have this public trello that shows exactly what's going on trello.com/b/NTOjHZkj/3-minute-board-games

@@3MBG I watched until the setup ended... it's just that from the last 16 videos, almost half (7) are longer than 4 minutes. I appreciate your channel, and noticed a trend and on this video I decided to comment.

Did you know the video game is an adaption of a board game, called Europa Universalis?

@@3MBG oh yeah, but this is literally torture for me to watch. Why subject yourself to that massive rule book when you could just enjoy the game. It’s to much to take in all at once, we have a saying in the community that it’ll take you 1,000 hours to finish the “tutorial”. That is because you will keep consistently making new discoveries about the game until then. And as someone who has 3,000 hrs I still make new discoveries but less consistently but with more surprise. The point is that all the issues you have with the game, controlling ai, player time commitment, and just wrapping your mind around the whole damn thing are a lot easier in the video game. And all the things that you like, missions, tech, religion, wars, events. Are all 10x deeper in the game. This board game is a lesser experience for double the effort.

The main difference, is I'm in a room with people i like having fun and not just staring at a screen. All board games have this, its the human element. I personally think you may be mistaking a different experience for a lesser one. And the awesome thing is just because one exists, it doesn't erase the other

@@3MBG I usually feel the same way. For something like gloomhaven I much prefer the board game over the digital experience because I like hanging out with my friends. But this is taking it to another level I would much rather load up a multiplayer game and start after 15 mins or a single player game and speed through the game. Ultimately it’s a lot easier to get a group together to play the video game than the game. You might have 4-5 opportunities in your whole life to play a 6 player game of this, And every weekend for the video game there is a 10 man multiplayer game going on over discord.

In person gaming is just a different experience. Playing 2 day long civilization games with 7 players back at university, something truly special. Certainly not for everyone, that's for sure. But being in front of a screen for 40 hours isn't everyones cup of tea either.

@@3MBG Playing a 7 player Empires in Arms campaign with a bunch of high school kids who don't know better is SUCH A MEMORABLE EXPERIENCE compared to anything on a PC. And I'm a dedicated PC gamer...