Perhaps we should be subsidised if we purchase a pair of hiking boots, a bicycle or a small capacity motorcycle? How about a $6,000 rebate for taking a train or tram to work?
There is a HUGE difference between tax incentive for manufactures and tax incentive to individuals that buy EV. Just show me the tax incentive on any ICE car after you buy it. Big difference.
Considering the shaky economy, I'm keen to know best, how people split their pay, how much of it goes into savings, spendings or investments. I’d be retiring/working much less in 5 years, and sometimes earn up to $160K per year, but nothing to show for it yet.
bravo! the whole markt has gone berserk now, almost not possible to outperform without expert guidance.. think your adviser would get on the phone with a newcomer? i'm in dire need of proper portfolio allocation ?
Thank you for this tip. It was easy to find your coach. Did my due diligence on her before scheduling a phone call with her. She seems proficient considering her resume.
Yes incompetent record inflation creating Joe Biden has destroyed the US economy. But he goes around telling lies and mumbling that the economy is doing great.
We need technology that doesn't require child labour to mine the materials, and that isn't subject to thermal runaway fires that burn at temperatures hot enought to melt steel, and release highly toxic gases.
Vehicles are so expensive no one can afford ICE or EV. There is a product I used to buy that used to be $1.89 for 11 oz. . Now the same product is $4.64 for 9.3 oz. . Needless to say I purchase a product that is less expensive. I waited till I found a good EV for less than half the original price. I figure my incentive was worth more than$10,000 the way I see it.
No one should get any subsidies. If technology is not economical to this level that is economically viable just by itself. Than is no worth to struggle
Truth is we need the sales of evs and ffv to drop off until the industry re adjust it's pricing structure and loan interest must be adjusted down aswell.. cars cost way to much... the Chinese 1k to 20k cars are what we want.. not 80k to 120k that we have now...
No car should receive a subsidies to encourage a sale. All cars should receive the same road tax. All things being equal only a fool would buy a EV. The truth is they are a short term fix while other fuels are developed. Synthetic and Hydration are the future. Don't waste your money buying EV.
Did you not watch the video? Money was given out regardless. They just chose to give it to old automakers instead of the better investment of EVs. Corruption is evident
Interesting poll in the UK. Those that have put the money in and switched to EV, most of them would not return to ICE, with one caveat, home charging. Take away home charging and the poll flips, they nearly all would go back to ICE due to public charging issues.
@@robertwoodhouse-bm7kt Agree. I just thought it was interesting that those who had converted and would not go back to ICE, caveated that with having home charging.
Can't charge at home. Would never go back. Thousands of charging points in the city where I work. less than 200 gas stations 9 charging stations in my town - only 4 gas stations I'm fine, thx.
The auto industry have never been a free market, every country exporter of automobiles had protectionist policies of their own industry in some way or another.
Got a quote for over $5.5k comprehensive insurance for Model 3 long range, lock up garage, 15,000km per year, 20km from Sydney CBD, 45 year old male, with clean driving record, no insurance claims. With a depreciation factor of 60% or more over 3 years. You save on fuel but hammered by insurance and depreciation!!! Keeping our Lexus hybrid which only cost $1.1k to insure and not much difference in fuel vs EV.
@@davidinkster1296MG4 Vs Tesla long range, completely different EV and price range. Hence the price difference in insurance. Add $3k option on the M3 long range and its a 3.8 sec 0-100km performance boost.
They are doing the same in Netherlands. EV's did not have to pay a 25% tax, + had €3.000 subsidies, and didn't pay road tax, till 2025. Most wealthy people that could afford €50k+ EV's were given all these benefits for the last decade. Now, EV prices start to decline a bit, and EV's get into the range that "average Joe" could almost buy a small one. . . . . . . all subsidies are gone, the 25% tax will be added and they have to pay the extra road tax per weight of the car . . . . Whow, ever read the book: how to subsidize the milionairs.?
@davidredding1988 Well, EVs will keep dropping in price. Oil will be used for the wires, cooling tubes , seat 💺, tires ... panels. your rain clothes. The point of moving off oil is just to not burn it off into the air and in breath it into are lungs. And the sun gives earthr more energy per day than oil. And we can't burn oil on other planets to run machines. Oil for industrial truck will be used until they have better battery tech but thats closer to 2060 imo, unless it a dump truck that goes up and down hill with regen breaks, but it only good in that environment.
Incentives were already dropped in December, last day for application was Dec. 17, 2023. Reason was a verdict, that forbids the rededication of money originally reserved for other reasons (special assets for Corona). This left the government with literally no money left to spend. 🤷♂️
The German courts ruled the reprogramming of Covid funds into EV’s (among other recipients) was not legal. Consequently, without additional fund available, the government was required to cancel the EV subsidies.
How is it patriotic hurting one's ecosystem and even hiring ones' economy by cripplying the emerging EV industry? The Chinese are going to crush German car sales globally including ICE, unless car makers in Germany and German government work together to improve the competitiveness of German EVs.
The fad is over. EV's can't succeed without massive government subsidies on vehicles and infrastructure. Which is synonymous with "living a lie". And remember these: - Cold weather climates experienced low range / dead charging infrastructure last winter - Some regions ask EV owners to not charge during heatwaves because of brown-outs - Electricity costs doubling or quadrupling in many regions - Lithium mine indentured labor and surface mining ecological disasters ("clean" hypocrisy) - Tires wear out twice as fast as on ICE cars ("clean" hypocrisy) - Most EV owners inflicting their tailpipe emissions onto rural areas/people ("clean" hypocrisy) - Huge EV batteries not recyclable at end-of-life ("clean" hypocrisy) - Insurance rates surging for Teslas - Increasing electric bus fires - Increasing house fires in the US from EV battery fires - Repair costs skyrocketing on out of warranty EV's - Plummeting resale values for EV's Many potential EV buyers and current owners recognize these as major wake-up calls. Gas, diesel and CNG cars certainly have many compromises and do not satisfy every use case. Can EV fans be rational enough to recognize and admit the same of EV's and their shortfalls, or will they be zealots and keep their blinders on? Watch all EV sales numbers start their decrease this year, then free-fall in 2025. And plan to see most auto manufacturers fail to make money on EV's and abandon their production.
@@Eddie_-_ Keep pumping out that silly statement mate, it makes you folks even sillier looking than you really are. EV sales in the US in 2023..... 7.6%😂😂😂 Yeah, they're selling in their droves😂😂
It is far more than the end of subsidies. The resale value of EVs got worse and worse - as people started to understand battery degradation issues, winter reach issues, cost-of-repair issues. Plus rises in cost of energy. As a result, owning an EV has become even more expensive. Buying EVs has become irrational for more and more people. Not the other way around - as most were hoping or promising. Even a sticker price drop to 25K wouldn't make up for this.
@ Well, what counts is not claims ("pack of lies") - but data. And data clearly show sharp drops in resale values. Much steeper drops than with ICEs. Sharp rises in energy cost - in some countries above Petrol/Gas cost. Besides the purchase price, ordinary people have to factor this in. Electric cars will remain a niche - outside rich countries like Norway - that mandated them. Whether we like it or not. And I drive an EV myself.
@@Pattern-Recognition People are turning away from EVs even in Norway and Iceland. Imagine, you have an EV, and the recent Lava streams cut the power off to your isolated town. How are you leaving? Not in a half dead EV, that's for sure.
@you clearly don't own or drive one. I drive a Skoda Enyaq in Spain. When I'm lucky enough to find one of the few public chargers working I pay 0.8€/kW, 4 to 6 times more than the price of the kW. In the summer when my battery last longer, it's equivalent to paying a litre of diesel at 2€ (in Spain it is now 1.85€), in the winter it's equivalent to pay it at 2.77€. Just a shame! And by the way, module 3 of the 9 battery modules of the car failed last summer, it took Skoda 2 months to fix it and 3000€! The EV is a scam.
Similar to the UK, outside of incentivised sales for company car owners there are now hardly any private buyers going for EVs, and instead buying some form of ICE.
That isn’t true. Demand is there. Dealers held back stock to buffer mandates for this year. If you look at yearly data, private BEV sales were still up significantly. Monthly data is almost useless as it is so noisy. Quarterly data is better. January BEV sales are already up 20%.
@@williammeek4078 total bs everyone I speak to will not buy EVs because they are crap. They haven't got the range of diesel cars they take hours upon hours to charge up so a fiver hour drive takes someone two days to complete and with the price of electricity in the UK a EV is almost twice as much to run as a diesel car so why would people buy into this crap idea exactly. My Range Rover does 580 miles on a tank of diesel my Mondeo does 740 miles on a tank of diesel so tell me why I would buy a EV and have a range of less than 200 miles before I have to wait ten hours for the thing to charge up to do another 200 miles?
@@britbazza3568 what a load of crap. Who do you expect to believe that BS and buy one of your crap diesels? There are plenty of BEVs with ranges over 300 miles which is 5 hours of driving. Charging is typically done in 30 minutes at a fast charger. That is the time it takes to eat a meal, so for real people, BEVs don’t take any longer on road trips. Sure, at home it takes hours, but you are sleeping so who cares. You still have to make special side trips to fuel even when not on road trips. Don’t try to sell me on your crapmobile diesel.
In the UK the taz incentives have led to a glut of very expensive EVs on the used market because it's people on higher salaries that benefit most from company car tax rules incentivising EVs. There used to be EV incentives to private buyers here too but they just seemed to get used up in increased profits rather than reduced prices. The main problem is that in the UK at least many used buyers don't have access to home charging or any cheap alternative it they're in an apartment. I'm not sure if Germany has the same issue but for true mass adoption cheap and reliable public charging needs to be a thing first and this is the main reason many people won't switch.
People are seeing what they bought -the " Frozen Tesla " incident in Chicago finished off the sales of EVs in 2024 here. Then fires burning down owners homes, the few people trapped in their cars burned to death since the door locks failed, the massive number of tire replacements required, the extra high insurance costs, the lack of charging stations in useful locations , the wait time to charge, the upfront cost, the child slave labor to mine the cobalt, expensive battery pack to replace, the resale value being so poor, the excessive amount of material to build them, their weight in an accident, fact the copper crooks keep stealing the charging cables making the station useless, repair cost being way higher than they tell you. the fact the grid just cant handle the load (in CA owners were told to not charge their cars due to load sheading) cost of installing home charger and its slow speed, range issues and battery performance in lower temperatures. I know I missed a few but thats just off the top of my head - truth is there is a portion of the population even with all this will still buy one for status or because they think its the thing to do but I think they already bought them so sale will slow
In 2023 the global BEV sales was 9.5 million. Tesla sold 1.81 million vehicles in 2023. Based on your research, what are your predictions for 2024? Are those numbers going to be higher or lower for 2024?
Have people seen the EV bus going up in Paris on YT... in seconds! (Another 3 in London recently)Truly scary. I think it'll take one disaster anywhere in the world when an apartment goes up as a result of an EV and people are killed. Apart from the total inconvenience as laid out above, people are now aware EV depreciation is the worst the car industry has ever seen in cars. Hertz liquidating 20,000 Teslas to buy back into ICE says it all about the cost of ownership. Depreciation being the main kicker in that case although cost/duration of repairs was a big factor also.
@@WeeShoeyDugless yes but the Naysayers won't see that the percentage is increasing every year. It went from 2.4% in 2020 to 7.6% in just a few years. I could see that number drastically accelerating if they can get their prices down even further to attract more buyers. Don't get me wrong, ICEVs are not going anywhere for at least a decade or two contrary to what many EV enthusiasts will tell you but every year they will continue to lose sales to BEVs. I've owned and driven many ICEVs for decades and after owning a BEV for almost 4 years and a lining in a BEV only household for almost two years, I don't see myself buying another ICEV again. And that's with decades of experience on ICEVs so I have experienced both types of vehicles contrary to many who have never experienced a BEV and will try to tell you what the ownership of a BEV is like.
Why should the tax payer subsidise EV's If they can't sell on the basis of their price then they are not wanted. As from January this year the ZEV mandate applies where each manufacturer has to sell 22% of production as an EV. Let see how that goes as most will not be able to hit this target (which increases each year) so will be hit with a fine of $£1500 for each ICE car sold that has not met that target. Just blame Tesla for all of this nonsense.
Especially the country that destroyed nuclear and are now back to buying coal from South africa Germans are energy morons, nordstream, they were told , but they were clever
China does. It some big Chinese cities now, there are more charging stations than there are gas stations. Over 50 percent of new car sales in China today are EVs. And their EVs are a lot less expensive than Germans one. And the reason they are in this position is because their government had the common sense to provide over a decade of ncentives to both consumers to buy EVs and car companies to build them. Now they dominate both the global EV and battery market. One reason why VW is struggling so much is they have had a massive drop in ICE car sales in China is because Chinese EVs are better value for many consumers there..
That's absolutely right. We shouldn't subsidise cars of any sorts. Even elon musk agrees saying that EV now needs to stand on their own two feet so to speak. Would like to hear what they gave to their own manufacturers
Meanwhile, Elon hedged profitability for Tesla on things like tax credits, compliance credits, carbon credits, and crypto-currency. How convenient. Now his strategy is to make money from charging systems, and guess where the US government is forcing taxpayers to contribute funds. I don't envy Elon for taking advantage of our world's suckers, but those of us who knew the game before the scat started up shouldn't be forced to have our skin in it whatsoever.
Reduce the price below ICE cars, create a battery that can charge in 5 minutes and make darn sure the battery won't kill its occupants. Then the EV's can compete, maybe.
@@Eddie_-_ Ask yourself, if your brand of ICE car had a gas tank that got 5% smaller every year and sometimes 40% smaller on a cold day, would you buy that brand again?
3:27 “underlying issues” are the always the scapegoat. Perhaps, just perhaps, EV enthusiasts have already purchased and mainstream buyers are less interested in EVs. That fact, coupled with government no longer taking “Peter’s money to help Paul,” is probably a big factor
New Zealand: December 2023 EV sales were 36% of total cars sold January 2024 EV sales were 3% cars sold The reasons were because there were no more EV incentives in 2024 and EV drivers had to pay road user chargers like anyone else.
The `reason` is anyone with any sense bought their car in December and not January because that's what people do, to see whats happening you need way more data points these two stats mean nothing
People aren't stupid. You can funnel them into a particular direction if the reward is great enough. Unfortunately for EVs there is no current financial pay-off when compared to petrol cars so without constant government intervention EVs would almost certainly just remain 10% of the world vehicle market.
ICEs do have a market advantage: cheaper and more readily available repair and spare parts, as well as fueling stations. Meanwhile EVs are still trying to figure out how to go about batteries. An ecosystem for EVs won't pop up overnight.
In 2023, some 30% of EV’s registeret in Denmark, just north of Germany, was German imports of 6 mths “Old” cars with +/- 1000 km. Our imported Fiat 500E was 27 weeks old, with 850 km at the clock, and with a price tag some 5000 € cheaper. You’ll find a lot of reductions in registration from cars, only registered for reexport with German tax incentives.🇩🇰
The West is slow to adopt EVs because combustion engine cars are so deeply ingrained in people's psyche it's difficult to paradigm change. It's easier for China as allot of people first vehicles are EVs. They never "loved" a combustion engine car before they have no attachments to the old rumbling machines.
It's true for "petrol heads", but the vast majority of the market couldn't care less. The "whole life" ownership costs associated with owning an EV are still far too high for much of the market to bear.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 It's true. Especially the fragile nature of battery pack. If just one cell in the battery pack is bust, the entire pack is toast, you can't repair just one cell, unlike ICE, you can replace certain components and the rest of engine can still function.
Good decision by the German government. Most countries except US (election!) will follow suit this year. The subsidies just enabled excess profits for Tesla and major manufacturers.
Germany is in recession and EV subsidies are a luxury they can’t afford. They still have 58 operating coal power stations so with the budget constraints 2030 targets are more of an aspiration than a reality.
What a surprise? EVs are depend on government besides! This is the best argument that with current battery technology for consumer, EVs don't have almost any economically argument.
We had one EV Evangelist in our family , she is a school teacher and talked for several years about buying an electric car and told us all we needed to buy one NOW . 18 months ago she got a full electric skoda enyaq on a PCP . after one year of nightmare, of range anxiety and 3 times being stranded plus costly and time consuming charging driving the 620 mile round trip to visit her father she has changed it for a petrol skoda at enormous financial cost . Our conclusion is that for all but the committed enthusiast that makes the use of their car their main focus and passion the currant generation of electric cars and electric infrastructure are not fit for purpose. Hydrogen and CNG look to be far more user friendly solution. Running my 119g co2 bmw 520d for another 10 years looks a lot better for the planet than building an electric car anyway.
Yeah, the virtue-signallig early adopters have all bought the EVs they wanted, so the demand has dried up. EVs are a massive waste of resources, despite their "zero emissions" at the tailpipe. Who needs a car that has to be scrapped after minor damage, or when the battery is shot after 10 years. The tank in an ICEV doesn't lose capacity after decades of use!
Lower battery prices, lower EV prices, great news. However, it does all conveniently ignore the Rio Tinto report from 2022 where the proven world resources for Lithium are enough to sustain replacing 15% of the global ICE fleet and the proven world resources for Cobalt, an essential element for Lithium batteries, is enough to sustain replacing 6% or the global ICE fleet. So, . . . where are the rest of the batteries coming from? and how stable is the price of Lithium and Cobalt as supplies eventually dwindle? The other real kicker is, what do we do, with all the dead EVs when they reach the end of their working life? There is around half a ton of battery in each one, they all have to go somewhere, and unlike ICE cars, you can't just push them into the crusher for recycling.
Its not rocket science. If Evs are considerably more expensive than their ICE counterparts the disadvantages of Evs mount up that much more and people will switch back to ICE. Low millage drivers that charge at home cannot save enough money to justify the extra purchasing/lease costs, high millage drivers are being ripped off with high public charging point pricing. Its a lose-lose situation for Evs. The incentives were required until Evs have price parity with Ice and they still don't.
Great news people are waking up to the lies. These cars are worth too much are useless and have I life span of less than 5-10 years. We want our real cars that are not putting out pollution in dangerous amounts it’s planes and ships plus China India and Africa who are polluting the oceans air and rivers. Incentives are not a way to sell cars as there’s no value in second hand EV’s as they are useless as batteries lose power and need replacing and nobody I know can afford a new car and if they could they’d buy a safe easy to use ICE car. The electronics and cheaply made Chinese EV’s are just not good value and when you pay $60,000 for a car you don’t expect it to be worth half that in less than a year it’s ridiculous. We don’t want to spend an hour every few hundred miles to charge our cars. You do know in China there’s fields full of thousands and thousands of registered EV’s just sitting nothing in those fields with lithium and cobalt leaking into the ground water. The sales are fake. EV’s are destroying companies like Ford VW Jaguar Range Rover and all because of the push for crap EV’s 😢 I drive a 1965 Chrysler Valiant AP6 and it’s my daily driver now that’s how you recycle and make the planet safe as I don’t buy a new car every year or two no I own a car that is older than me that cost me $10,000 7 years ago and is now worth over $40,000 yrs my car goes up in value the last 3 years my insurance has had to go up $5000 my car will be insured for $45,000 this year. This car will go to my daughter one day and she can keep it or sell it to put a down payment on a house. You will not see EV’s from 2020 driving around in just 10 years let alone 50 plus 😂
Are EV sales really going up or is it the EV scam where companies register the EVs because the government paus them to and then the EVs are stored in fields. If the Chinese people are losing their jobs in droves how can EV sales be skyrocketing?
The real scam is regulators insisting on certain percentages of a manufacturer's output being electric, so they have to waste resources building cars that nobody wants.
You’re talking about different things. direct and indirect incentives. Are you suggesting that EV manufacturers don’t get the tax reductions. Because they do and in the the amount of much more than any ICE production proper thing that everybody wants does not need to be incentivised. Theresa difference in incentives to keep jobs and give people what they need versus giving out money to sell people things that otherwise nobody wants.
Yep, people in Germany tend to crunch numbers before they buy a car and without gov. Subsidies with high electricity prices to own/run an EV presently will cost at least the same if not more compared to an ICE vehicle. Fortunately, I do believe that once battery, components, get cheaper and more renewable electricity will be produced, electricity prices will go down and every German will buy EV because it will be cheaper and proven technology.
@cicolobbert6788 I doubt it will get much cheaper. Technology does start off expensive then cheapens but it has been proven time and time again they can easily just become more expensive. Take ICE cars. They have not gotten cheaper over the decades and are increasingly out of reach for more and more people. Plus they keep adding stuff to make it even more unaffordable like crazy LED headlight units that require a full replacement or how a replacement key fob for push button start cars is hundreds of dollars instead of the maybe 100 for a real physical key. I have always been told things get cheaper...but everywhere I look things are more expensive and more ways of taking money from customers are coming around. Be it cars, houses, or basic appliances. They do not go down in price despite production innovations. No reason to expect a electric car to get much cheaper. I think they will of course but they will just stay around ICE car prices so automakers can reap more profits.
I heard a podcast talking about the crazy EV scheme NZ has. Something about one council or state charging you for miles driven even if you are driving in a different council/state. So glad i never moved there especially after how they treated their citizens during the plandemic.
RUC starts in April, and I have a sneeky feeling ev prices will fall in the next few months like magic. You would be amazed how many evs were priced $5 below the incentive cap.
There never should have been EV purchase incentives in any country nor should there be any free charging stations or aubsidized electricity rates. The free market demands that, if a kWh of electricity is superior to a kWh worth of gasoline (more useable, less polluting, or safer) then the price for a kWh of electricity should be higher than the price of a kWh worth of gasoline since the consumer prefers the electrical energy to the chemical energy.
@@SimonFranck100 Externalities like child labor digging up cobalt, road surfaces incurring more damage from heavier vehicles, like having to dig up streets and construct electrical towers to route all the extra electricity to houses so people can charge their EVs? Or are you only talking about how CO2 output fuels the climate change hoax?
I tend to think it’s the public waking up to the fact EVs are a disposable commodity. We won’t be seeing 8-10 year old used EVs because of the fact, no one wants an EV that is out of warranty and having a potential financial ticking time bomb. When an ICE vehicle is repairable and serviceable way beyond a typical EVs life. And as more and more are finding out the running costs often exceed that of an ICE vehicle. Making the switch is both expensive and risky when residual values are falling so fast.
My neighbor just bought a Tesla ($60,000 OTD) and I just bought a Corolla Cross Hybrid ($39,000 OTD). We're both in our 70s. He's already admitted making a big mistake. Why? The Tesla requires pressing designated parts of an LCD screen to even turn on the window wipers. These screens are functional for younger drivers but once you reach your 70s, it's very difficult to touch the correct spot. His arm shakes (as does mine) when reaching for the screen and we both have to look away from the road to make sure we are pressing the right area of the screen. This is just dangerous. The good news about the CCH Hybrid is that there are a lot fewer, non tactile, buttons to touch while you're driving so you can keep your eyes on the road where they should be. .
Yes. That is where Tesla has gtone wrong and driving one of their cars can actually be dangerous. Have a touch screen by all means but all essential functions such as turn signals, mode controls and window opwening and closing must have physical controls. On my Skoda Enyaq a warning comes up when the touch screen is operated when it is in motion and it then assumes you let the front passenger operate it.
I got my new model 3 for less than cost of cheapest Camry. Yes not everything about Tesla is golden but something like windwiper shortcut can be added for about $100 ish which is not bad when you can get ev cheaper than new Camry. I think your neighbor overpaid for his tesla unless he bought Model S or Model X.
So, if the government, (Germany) doesn’t subsidize EVs, people don’t buy them. This is the problem with governments picking winners and losers. Once the wining side money dries up, it’s no longer the winning side.
l live in Germany. I think it is good that EVs are not subsidized. If they were really that great, they will have a growing market share, if not, then not. For CO2 goals, it makes much more sense to produce green electricity on a large scale (wind & solar) and convert a part of it into e-fuels - which will anyway happen due to the green transformation of the (chemical) industry.
@@spxram4793efuels are an absurdity…. Every study shows people have concerns over charging access mainly. Germany like Japan has too much of its economy dependent on legacy auto and is therefore fearful of swapping. It’s just a matter of time however, ICE sales peaked in 2017 and is still declining. At a certain point the cost to produce crossover will occur and ICE will be caught in a cost to produce trap.
@@spxram4793 yeah, you live by the subsidy, you die by the subsidy. Here in the US EVs are given tax credits, which is fine in all, I mean if you want an EV and the government is going to refund a portion of your tax liability back to you for buying one, why the hell not, it’s just your money coming back to for something you want anyway, and it helps take the some of sting off the price, but when that rebate goes away, people will then start to think do I really want that car over some other car, and if the numbers no longer work anymore the answer will probably be no, and the government knows this hence the mandates that everyone by one by some future date. It’s like the Covid shots. When they first came out there was a percentage of people who were willing to camp out in front of pharmacies to be first in line to get jabbed. Once all those people ran out, the government had to offer carrots to get it, free this and that or direct cash payments as those people dwindled. Then they still have a sizable percentage of people who just didn’t want it, and then came the mandates. It’ll be the same with EVs.
@@teealso Except they are going to make the tax subsidy assignable to the dealer at purchase time so it becomes his tax incentive and as good as cash. So many Americans are NOT Net taxpayers. It's not their money coming back to them, it's a free gift!
Not sure what it is like in Germany but elsewhere it isn’t just the loss of government subsidies but decreasing customer confidence. Until recently, the general consumer opinions were, like how they drive, like the idea, don’t like the purchase price, don’t like the limited range and insufficient charging infrastructure. But more recently other issues have reared up - heavy depreciation, high insurance, high repair costs, long repair times. Also, the once cheap running costs have been somewhat eroded by the large hikes in energy costs. I bought an EV in 2020, loved driving it and the convenience of charging at home. To start off, it was super cheap to run, a third the price of running a diesel, but two years later electricity prices had been hiked leaving the EV only a little cheaper to run. Then three years later at the end of the contract I started looking at a replacement, EVs at first. I wanted more range and was shocked that I would have to spend over £45k, but the killer was when I discovered how little it was worth, it less than 3 years it had lost 60% of its value - I’d also had to change insurance companies because of ridiculously high renewal quotations - I switched back to petrol. Since then, there have been stories cars being written off because of minor scratches to the battery housing, repairs being expensive and taking ages because the network of 1000s of traditional repair centres don’t have the equipment or skills to deal with them, and the high-profile stories of EV fires that has started to appear on main-stream media. Consumer confidence has been dented for a number of reasons, not just the loss of subsidies. I still think you are right, we will all be driving EVs eventually, but it will state time because the rapid transition plans have been set back considerably.
All car sales in Germany are down: "BERLIN, Jan 30 (Reuters) - German car sales are lagging the recovery in the global passenger car market, with 2024 sales expected to be 25% below pre-pandemic levels, data from German auto association VDA showed on Tuesday."
@@laurencejenner1127 Germany is scrambling to make up for all of that while at the same time realizing that the costs of greening Germany is yielding an uncompetitive Germany.
Not saying there is some truth to this, but I am not sure this is totally correct. Only my opinion. If EV sales depend on Government incentives, then what does it say about the market? Western Governments prop up their Auto industries from time to time. It’s never been specific to one form or the other IMO, as ICE was the only power source until recently. So I am not sure you can equate this to incentives for ICE only. Props are nothing new and I would not be surprised if that still goes on today in State assistance. Although technically in the EU you have to be careful with that. There is more to this than meets the eye, and I would be interested in what consumers think of EVs now we are past the early adopters and into the hard corner of rational buyers.
Why would any private buyer purchase a throw away item, which essentially is what EV's are. Leasing companies will also start costing them out of common sense and affordability when they realise there is no secondhand market, we just have very large mobile phones
The fact that you need to subsidize to stimulate demands tells you something. Go hybrid and then roll out electric vehicles with time. Banning certain cars altogether is not so smart. Rather than banning certain cars, rollout thresholds that automakers should meet at certain intervals
In the UK CAR makers have targets of pollution free cars this year 22%. If not you have to buy credits from car company who has surplus or pay very high fines. By 2030 all ICE banned except hybrid By 2035 all cars have to be BEV only.
@@robertwoodhouse-bm7kt they must just ensure that by the time they ban ICE, technology is advance enough for BEV to be a viable alternative. Imagine you ban ICE then travellers opt for air travel more then the road emission reduction is offset by air travel pollution
What nonsense. You can't build an EV without "big oil". "Big oil" knows it, and the market knows it. Have a look at the share price history of a few of the oil producers and refiners over the past few years. Nobody is worried about the effect EV's are going to have on "big oil".
BIG OIL LOVES BEVs! Big Oil gets to sell 5 years more worth of fuel to manufacture a BEV in ONE YEAR! Than to manufacture and ICE and fuel it for 5 years. BIG OIL Loves BEV! Where else could Big Oil make that kind of profit RIGHT NOW!
NZ did the same - this resulted in INCREASED sales in December - and very low in January I suspect that it has dropped EV demand by a bit - but the big drop in Jan is because a lot of people bought early to get the credits Have to see how it pans out over the next few months
I think January already showed how it's going to pan out. The retirement of buyer subsidies pushed future demand to December. Tax policies have a way of distorting the market like that.
Of course December would have a surge in sales simply because the 'goody bags' were being withdrawn at the end of that month. Any word on January sales yet?
Even with the subsidies in NZ, new EV’s were still too expensive. So only well-off buyers could afford them. I have rented a hybrid and was quite impressed with it, but could not even afford to buy a secondhand one. As a renter, I would not be able to own an EV, as no landlord is going to spend on installation of a charging station, which is where, we are told, is the best place to charge-up. In the South Island, charging stations are still few and far between, and the advice given to ICE owners here is keep your fuel tank topped up. An example: Last year due to road closures and slips etc. The distance from Picton to Nelson (normally about 145km.) was, briefly, over 1,000km. This sort of problem has been quite common in the last three years. Imagine if you were in an EV when this happened!
why should any industry be incentivized? If the cars are good enough and priced competitively, then they will sell. The price of Lithium has dropped massively, why haven't the cost of the cars dropped significantly? I think the macro-markets have changed since Covid and with more free trade agreements, the days of huge incentives are over.
Globally, fossil fuels received an estimated 6 TRILLION USD subsidies globally in 2023 (source - those well known tree-huggers, the IMF). You were saying???
that is the point they cant.. if you buy an Opla Astra (small car) if its Electric its double the price of the Ice version. you can get an Opel Astra Ice car with a nice trim for the same price which is a class above in size. or a RENAULT ARKANA , esprit Alpine trim hybrid car which is 500mm longer car
In the UK, the culprit of decreasing EV sales is turn out to be Rowan Atkinson. And in Germany, the government is the culprit. So, there is no way people shunning EVs. They are in love with EVs.
Rowan has become a target because he's gone public with a qualified engineer's perspective on EVs. Some people don't like the truth, backed up by facts. As for being in love with EVs, you're doing irony, right?
The EV sales market is made up of 2 sides… Group 1; wasting money whilst thinking they’re saving the environment. Group 2; saving money whilst wasting the environment. Remove the incentives and Group 2 are going back to good old ICE!! A considerable number from Group 1 (although still loving their EV) are returning to ICE because the EV doesn’t work for their lifestyle or they’ve had a bad ownership experience with the EV. Germany’s removal of subsidies is just a taste of what is happening globally, when EV’s don’t make sales without a subsidy.
I KNEW this would happen sooner or later. Government all over the world routinely shift goalposts. Also, do we know whether this was planned some years ago and just not reported properly?
Unsubsidized EVs are economically not viable. If your battery breaks down the car's a write-off. So you have to add the cost of battery replacement. That makes the cost of ownership the highest of any vehicle technology. It simply does not make sense to purchase an EV.
If your EV suffers even minor damage the insurers may well write it off. So a two year old car, built with massive resources, is scrapped. How is that the way to a sustainable future?
I’m convinced that OEMs inflate prices when governments offer incentives. If they offered consumers a lump sum based on evidence of the purchase of an EV, then the OEMs would be offering new cars at lower prices and competing.
I think you have a point. The Volvo EX30 is quite expensive in Canada compared to the USA, since we have a price-based rebate, as opposed to a tax break. I hope that once they move production to Belgium, things might level out, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
The problem for EVs is the costs of buying at the moment. Running costs are much lower than ICE cars. Incentives are going to people who can afford a car of 60000. Once batterie prices are going down the choice for everyone will be easy.
Prices are coming down. Fuelling costs are lower, that's for sure. Maintenance costs are probably lower, too. But I'm in Australia and the depreciation on EV's here is insane. That's where the real cost is. I'm not kidding you, you're average used Model 3 drops about $1 in value for every kilometre you drive it, here.
Same thing just happened here in NZ. End of EV purchase and operation subsidies = end of EV sales. January EV sales were down 90%. And petrol car sales massively up, so it's not a weak economic situation We have the bizarre situation where small petrol car purchase price AND ongoing operating cost are lower than an EV. So why would anyone buy an EV in NZ? I am in the auto trade, and I don't see this turning around for at least a year. Maybe longer
the reason I bought mine was that I can 'fill up' at home for peanuts, and do not have tail pipe emissions, and have a 7 year warranty, and a 2 year service period.
@@TerryHickey-xt4mf Your 'tailpipe emissions' are just somewhere else. Really your tailpipe is at the far end of that cable you plug into your car, so long as you can't see it it's not happening. And not forgetting the huge emissions to make the car and eventually dispose of it. Again not seen by you so it's not a thing.
@@nickbreen287 That's fossil fuel lobby propagada. The tail pipe emissions "at the far end of that cable" are still much lower for EV than for ICE cars.
@@SimonFranck100 Lower, yes but more frequently used. The emissions cost of producing a single EV is much much higher than an ice and the decommissioning costs are not even known as the tech to do it is not invented yet. So right now every EV is just toxic waste at end of life. I understand that you are emotionally invested and need to see the upside, but...
Meanwhile, my Tesla model S is 10 years old!! Running on 230K miles, so so happy. Maintenance has been close to null and it’s still a beast. So powerful and so nice of a ride.. Kudos!! ICE cars make no sense at all. They can only be maintained afloat by government interference.
Complete horseshit. How much have you spent on tires? Also when charging from. Home you are losing about 15 percent of electricity from outlet to battery. Very inefficient.
Inefficient is just to get only 20% of the energy from the fuel and waste 80% in heat and friction. then only 15% goes to torque on the tires.... there you go., Very inefficient. Mr. complete horseshit.
@vitob1882 Just shows how much energy is in gasoline and diesel. The price is factored in to the mpg and range on gasoline but not factored in on electric. As i already said. Complete horseshit.
@vitob1882 OH yeah you see you already apply that to the real power plants that are creating your electricity then you add on top the 15 percent or more loss.
Why was the declining working class in The West forced to subsidize expensive EV cars for wealthier people in the first place? It's very unfair. Why don't they just give every driver $7,500 to buy what they want? P.S. EVs also use the roads, but they don't pay for them when they buy fuel, like ICE vehicle owners do.
China sells a lot more EV’s because they have a highly efficient and effective public transportation system including High Speed Rail so EV’s are only used for short commutes.
@@DUCKSAREEVILLLLLLLL- Excellent point. But you see Duck, a percentage of those subsidies mysteriously comes back into politicians foundations and they become instant millionaires after leaving office like OB 1 Kenobi.
You can skew facts as much as you like, fact is EV sales are dropping in the USA and most major western markets. Anyway I like how this guy keeps saying He thinks that EV sales will improve or that batteries are getting cheaper without giving any evidence to back his opinion. Fact is Toyota, Honda, Ford & GM have halted a lot if not most of their EV production. Fact is Volvo is trying to dump their 48% share in Polestar. I'm glad that the Chinese market, which nobody can actually verify, is going gangbusters, but in the rest of the Western World EV sales are tanking.
Two main points: Charging prices increases 30 to 50%. While gasoil decreased 30%. EV s are now 70 % less competitive. Next point is, that the 6000 Euro state gift reduced leasing rates for 24 months contracts by 250 Euros monthly. Finished.
That’s not how percentage works. For an EV you need to calculate a weighted average between home charging and public charging. Personally, I would maximum charge at a public charger 2-4 times per year. We are considering to install solar power to reduce pool heating cost. This would make us drive for free. And I live in a country with really cheap petrol.
@@Eddie_-_ I think solar is great from the standpoint of being at least somewhat energy independent. But you need a large solar array, and batteries for that. That lots of money. And in reality, its not cost effective, unless you live in a warmer/sunnier climate.
@@sidorgeorge yes, living in a sunny climate. I have a quote for 11 KUSD without batteries. Don’t think we need that, expecting the solar to heat the pool and the excess power used to charge a car.
Finally, people start to recognize that EVs are a bad decision. Increasing insurance fees due to very high repair costs even after small accidents. Not enough charging stations. (In Germany in 2022 8 cars per station, now 14). Increasing price of electric power. (In Germany, the government promised incentives on electricity prices. Then they did the opposite!) Multiple, not compatible charging companies causing difficulties and extra fees when charging.) EV cars are much more expensive without incentives. And finally the latest news from the government that if there is not enough electricity in Germany (after Germany shut down it's remaining nuclear plants) then they will cut power to EV charging stations and heat pumps. Why on earth would someone in Germany consider now to buy an EV? The politics do exactly the opposite to what they promised. The people and also the car companies have been betrayed by the politics.
Strange how a Govt. may not want their industries smashed by products from other countries that are being subsidized even harder by their Govt. isn't it? Any comment on why the fuel subsidies on ICE vehicles here in Australia are used to fund the EV rush but EVs don't have to pay an equivalent amount? No carmakers here to subsidize these days.
@@rogerphelps9939 So how about we concentrate on the big ticket items and not on the low hanging fruit that Govt. always go for? Cut right back on planes flying, reduce waste, build houses that don't require heating/cooling all year, work with high polluting 3rd world countries etc etc etc. We have ICE vehicles but they're efficient and modern which we use very little and we have a lower footprint than most who buy EVs. It's a a badly implemented ad hoc money grab imo.
No. Start with low hanging fruit where the greatest impact can be made. CO2 emissions from ground transport far exceed those from aircraft.@@oldbloke204
@@oldbloke204 That all makes perfect sense, but it reduces consumption, and we can't have that now, can we. And plus, you can't park those things in your driveway to show your neighbours how virtuous and how wealthy you are.
I don't know how many times I have said this: the vehicle electrification scheme simply never would have got off the ground without massive government financial incentives and will die the second those incentives stop. The EVs don't work; they're too expensive, the battery doesn't last long enough, the infrastructure isn't there, as well as the capacity to generate the power for mass adoption. People aren't stupid: they've begun to realize this. Now you can paint the picture any way you like and blame the EV decline on every other possible external factor (economy, finance, wind direction... whatever), but the graph you showed tells the story: People ARE STILL buying cars, it's just that they are now switching back to fossil fuel cars... Because they are cheaper and they work in the real world of the average buyer.
I've never gotten a multi thousand $ incentive to buy an ICE car FUNDED by other taxpayers. It's disingenuous to imply taking less tax money from a company as incentive to spend an ongoing billions of $'s in a local economy is equivalent what is taking place with EV's.
