The Uncomfortable TRUTH About EVs: The Version NEITHER SIDE Wants You To Hear 

Exactly, scrappage never allowed trading a 15 year old car to a 10 year old one. A scheme solely for those well off enough to buy new cars anyway.

This is also my dislike of scrappage schemes. They are a great way for wealthy people to get new cars with a government subsidy (often second cars too), but do nothing for the less wealthy. I also think most people miss that such schemes are just as much about boosting car manufacturing as emissions reduction.

Yup it's been proved world over that scrappage schemes produce a vastly larger carbon footprint than allowing the normal replacement of the vehicle fleet - yet people still bring it up as an idea to "save the planet" - you can't save the planet by consuming more product faster - why people can't follow that very simple logic, I do not understand. I can understand trying to encourage people in polluted cities to buy clearer vehicles - but as Jay states here, simple way to do that is tariff the crap out of people bringing polluting cars into those cities - and that will in turn accelerate the replacement of those vehicles - but that's still not going to "save the planet" - just local air quality.

One point Jay didn't touch on and i wanted to hear his opinion on was this and the evnironmental cost of making batteries aswell. Lithium and cobalt mining is quite dirty business both literally and figuratively. Can we keep up with the demand, without making it even worse than it already is. How much are we saving the environment really? Also the synthetic fuel that porche is making seems like a good alternative if adopted at scale i think Germany already has some plans to make exceptions for ICEs on synthfuel. Also if an ev battery lasts lets say 10 years, is it going to be economically viable to swap that one with a brand new one and keep the car on the road for atleast another 10. And even that a 20 year old car is still a usable vehicle in most cases, is that case true for evs and how much are we saving the environment if cars become more disposable? I live in eastern Europe (Bulgaria) and 20 and even 30 year old cars are still quite common especially if you are not in the capital where people earn more money. Will that happen with evs?

@@PoliPantev Private vehicles are just such a small part of the problem anyway - but they are a "soft target" for politicians who want to be seen to be doing something. Ideally if we really wanted to make any actual impact, then eliminating private vehicle ownership in cities and forcing people to use bikes and public transport would be the only way to do it.

It seems like something that should have been discussed a long time ago

Your problem isn’t EV’s or not, it’s about access to transportation options. This is where self driving cars could help the disabled.

Yes, self driving can help, but its not EV or not, it's to make sure the chargers are handicap accessible, @@TML34

The U.S. gov had a webinar this year: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-P0MaoceTZoI.htmlsi=FPtekTD-BUsHV_yR @@JayEmmOnCars

@@TML34 of course 🙄🤔🥱🤡

Zero evidence of this.

Absolutely, James cooke has a channel and his Tesla battery failed out of warranty but he got a deal with them and I think the cost was 12k , plenty of evidence of older EV range getting worse and failed batteries.

@@tonyquinn7479 1 Tesla battery failing does not mean all EV batteries will at that time. My Wifes 2016 nissan leaf has 120K on the clock , same for 4 other families I know with an original Leaf.

Oh dear oh dear.... there are lots of failed battery's etc on the net. And what is your leafs range now compared to when it was new?

@@tonyquinn7479 its the same 100klms

Very true EVs do remove 99% of the repairability, mostly because they only have about 20 moving parts

That’s so true, it’s their perfect chance to convince normal folks that EVs are unrepairable because “electricity” and “technology”. Manufacturers will offer no spare parts, or hugely expensive ones, void your warranty, lock you out of their chargers, lock inverters, motors and batteries with different serial numbers (see Apple) etc., simply because it’s their perfect chance. Instead of actually reducing pollution, they will turn out to be a huge environmental and economical burden.

@@ericpisch2732 Your knowledge about cars seems to be a bit lacking. Chassis, suspension, brakes, infotainment, HVAC, electronics are all equally or more complex than ICE cars. You have an extra heat pump, and usually air suspension, adaptive dampers and rear wheel steering, because most EVs weigh over 2 tonnes. Active air intakes because they need the best aerodynamic efficiency. And the battery and inverter cooling is quite complex, and good luck finding any parts because “shortages”. Can’t wait to see EVs being thrown away because the manufacturer quotes 30k and you can’t get an independent to repair it

You will get shot down in flames on social media for slating electric cars

Very true and that’s exactly the reason insurance premiums are increasing

That's how I see it. Remember the mass hoverboard craze back in 2015. How many do you see being advertised now or being used by adults? Same with Segway balance personal transport things. Segway now produce not only those but robotic lawnmowers and internal combustion powered ATV's.

Exactly, it’ll just be a short fad until we realise how crap and polluting they are.

disagree, tech outdates quickly because it's a trivial item that is relatively inexpensive to replace where a car is something that is not cheap by any means and not trivial to replace so there is an incentive for both consumers and manufacturers to keep them going in the long run. Possibly parts might be an issue since no manufacturer wants cars to last forever and they can simply cop out and say it's too expensive to stock parts. Also a car from the 80's usable today because pretty much the base functionality of a car hasn't changed wildly in the past 50 or so years arguably for more. If you don't have an american style rampant consumerist mindset EVs will be viable as long as they remain reliable and depreciate enough that a second hand market can thrive.

@@mertvaran5733 I agree with you completely. In response to the original comment, I will that I would be quite happy to still be using my iPhone 4 if iPhones could be upgraded with new memory and other device upgrades that have happened over the years, but honestly the biggest problem IS that Apple no longer supports the iPhone 4 so that means no more software updates, new apps that won’t run on the old software, etc. so the fact that it is now essentially obsolete is its biggest problem. I don’t think I even have a cable to charge the iPhone 4 anymore. At least I can still charge my iPhone 6 (which I think is the most recent iPhone to no longer be supported) and access the data on it and use some of the software when I’m on Wi-Fi.

My 6 yr old Tesla still gets full over the air support. That means software and navigation updates all completely free. One other perk of Teslas compared to other EVs, and why so many people love them...

I just wish I had been given some training on how to live with an EV before I got one. I had to learn the hard way that range drops 40% in winter. And that you must have a home charger that is level 2 or better.

@@joecoolioness6399 Yes the range in the winter sucks. Winter tyres and heating really takes a lot of energy. Believe it or not but I charge my bmw i3 with normal 230V and 8A with a cable extension. It works but it is slow, not a problem if you charge during the night.

It'd be ridiculous in Australia, cold in winter, stinking hot in summer, where the AC would drag that battery down like a demon, and the heat would degrade battery performance drastically

Exactly…

Range drops 40% in winter, BS. Mine drops 10% without heat pump.

👆

References may be needed for electric prices going through the roof and new batteries costing more than a house.

@@davecolgan442 ask me again when it happens. Until they make make shorter range cars with sodium batteries lithium prices should start to go through the roof.

@@davecolgan442 it happens with every resource that becomes government mandate and something everybody uses. Like platinum and rhodium with catalytic converters. My mom used to have some platinum and rhodium jewelry, I believe it was about the same price as white gold at the time.

​@@davecolgan442Right now, EV's are not paying road taxes. When they become the norm THEN they will be charged per-mile to make up the difference. The government will install a GPS tracker & send you a bill.

Had that with own early 70s year old Dad, he couldn't park at the same one he used for years in a small town one day because they changed the machine. Not making a big fuss I took some time to go with him next time to show him how to use it, never even thought it would be a problem but the machine was ridiculous. It wanted the car number plate, the bay etc but had old school mobile phone text input for letters rather than a full keypad and just had numerical input. It was obviously done on the cheap, a older machine reprogrammed beyond the original hardware design to try and stop ticket sharing.

​@@Tuberuser187that really sounds ridiculous, why would anyone even manufacture a "modern" parking ticket machine like this in the first place. 😮🫣

@@Tuberuser187 The problem is we are not all the same. I'm in my 70's sending this from the latest Windows 11 laptop and have the latest Samsung Z fold 5G phone - oh and I'm on my second EV. I love technology and have just installed Voip phones in my home, but my sister, who is a few years younger than me, understands none of this! So I feel for your dad.

Last summer we, a Belgian family visited the Kent region for our summer holiday you simply cannot believe how many times we could not get a valid parking ticket for various reasons, or we could not download the parking app, or there was bad 4G network and we could not pay online, or the parking ticket machines simply did not work, or some of the "smart" parking camera's would not register a Belgian numberplate and would not open the gate, or....the list goes on and on and on..... Is this the new high tech world we live in, a world where you simply can not park your car because of regional digital differences. Just glad we did not drive an EV and were able to still get petrol at the pumps. Designers of many of these systems just don't think about the greater picture and impact of their crappy gimmicks, go back tot the basics or make them so that everyone can use them and not only the designer of the machine.

OMG, don't get me started on Carlisle. I took a RZ450e there and most chargers I went to were out of order or full. I spent over an hour looking for an available and working charger. (plus I had to download an app and sign up to Genie)

It's getting harder all the time picking up a decent car for £3k but it undeniable EV cars are going too remain expensive. And charging them won't be cheap either.

I have thought all along that scrappage schemes would greatly increase second hand car prices. I still regularly endure vile smelling diesel fumes from passing cars cars in my garden in spite of it. Makes me understand why ULEZ is wanted, but it's denying personal mobility to many people.

EV man demonstrated that you can pick up a second hand Seat mii for the same as a similar aged ICE car… it’s almost there and once bought insanely cheap to run if you can charge at home.

@ericrawson2909 I think it would be fairer to just let the old cars phase themselves out through old age and replace. Than extra taxes and clean zones.

if you really only cared about cost and reliablity you'd be driven a gen1 nissan leaf round town! Pretty much zero depreciation, 100% reliability and they are actually far far nicer to drive than some litle buzz box of a small car with a engine that i wouldn't power a sewing machine with... ;-)

My sons 2013 Dacia sandero 1.5 diesel, with 42k on the clock does 87 mpg on a run at 65 mph after an oil change and service, it is VED exempt to, he frequently drives 700 miles to the isle of sky in it in about 12 hours.

Comparing a cheap old car to a new car is daft. Also, you can buy EVs that have > 320 miles of range. And even if it didn’t then if you have an EV with say 250 miles of range then you only have to pay for 70 miles at the higher price.

I charge my EV overnight at 7p per kWh. It's around the equivalent of 600mpg comparing with a more average 50mpg diesel of a similar size to my EV. I don't think there is a viable EV in the market right now to compete with your current car. I'd estimate within 10 years there will be. But you don't need a 320 mile range to do a 320 mile trip. You will be stopping at least once in that journey for a meal. You stop where there is a supercharger and eat while you charge the car.

Stop thinking just buy new thing and get excited for next thing

@@AdrianHilder and when it's a really cold day and you have the heating on the windscreen wipers on, how's your range then?

Another one playing a victim card? Every person faces some hardship in life....not just victim card players.

@@igorkratka no one is saying life is easy for everyone else. Jai described a cars importance to disabled people well. Especially if you have mobility problems. How am I playing a victim card? I was just thanking Jay for his kind thinking. You need to chill

​@@psions555He doesn't need to chill, he needs to shut up and get back in his box. Ignore the idiot, he isn't worth any kind of response.

@@igorkratka It's not about hardship. It's about physical and mental disabilities, which restrict the actions of a person, compared to a normal abled person. An example is someone born with no legs. I had a older late relative who was in that exact position, but could drive a car, via hand controls. I know she would have faced huge difficulties trying to use a public charging station. So it's not about playing victim cards, but understanding a person's needs and requirements. The Equality Act 2010 protects against discrimination, and ensure public services can be available to all people regardless of race, gender, religion, disability, age etc. So they'll be a need to address disability use of EV charge points. Considering the UK executive is pushing to phase out all new sales of ICE and any hybrid by 2035. Motability, the UK's largest fleet service, and keeping the disabled person mobile. Requires you to order a brand new car, that is built from the production line. Since more new cars are now becoming EV. More disabled drivers will be driving EV's. Nissan have announced that from 2025, all Jukes, and Qashqai's built in Sunderland will be EV only. So their EV line up from smallest to largest, will be Juke > Leaf (crossover) > Qashqai.

Cars are vital because government destroyed all the infrastructure that could have supported you properly.

And there lies a massive problem, needs to be a solution that fits all

Here in Norway they have legislated that a building management company can't refuse to install EV chargers if the residents request them.

However many cars are close together and if one explodes then they all do. Sounds very fair.@@15bit62

But you’re happy with probably 2,000 gallons of highly flammable fuel sat under your apartment? This is exactly the scaremongering James was talking about.

@@hughesy606 it doesn't really matter what I'm happy with if the fire brigade have completed a risk assessment and banned charging points. It's not scaremongering, it's a fact.

Hybrids will still be sold in 2035 as will low volume ICE cars plus the 40 odd million ICE cars already sold will still be available

Missed out hydrogen...

Hybrids will be laughed at in 30 years

@@ericpisch2732 how low is low volume? I assume none of them will be affordable

The market will decide quicker than any governmental regulation!

I went to school with Stacy's Mum. She was in my younger Brother's year. Even at our now advanced years, she still has it going on. One thing though, she's a nicer person than you would imagine. I've interacted a couple of times over the decades (bloody hell) and she treats me like a long lost friend, completely genuine human being. Her Mum was lovely too.

Jay, wait until we're all slaves to the EV, do you really think you're getting 500 miles for 8 quid?

@@petef7323damn right we wont

Mrs Brown also had a lovely daughter.

@@petef7323 Wait till they have to include the road taxes in the electricity and aren't currently being paid. Right now they're freeloading and putting more wear on the roads with the excess weight.

Octopus ("-Go") (and others, I believe) are offering under-10p for super-off-peak. The deal for heat-pumps is a little more expensive. It is irritating that Octopus differentiate between the two - you need to prove you own an EV to get "Go". A worse problem is the grid supply that most homes have. I have 1-phase 100A, and like most people, upgrade to 3-phase would be extortionate. But my supply will not be able to fully charge an EV and run the heat-pump in the small slot of super-off-peak hours that "Go" or the other allocate. A battery would make the situation even worse. In the long term, the answer to all this is a massive, cheap home battery and truly dynamic "pull-oriented" operation. It isn't on the horizon in say, next 2 years. So for now, most power will cost 10p but you have to just put up with the occasional ripoff which might be 70p at a fast-charging station. But "non-starter" is incorrect; with the UK govt 7k5 grant a heat-pump is viable, especially considering that the pricing of gas vs electric is entirely artificial.

Natural gas is cheaper today on the wholesale market than it was in 1990.

​@@jonb5493That's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that we'll need to spend several trillion pounds on infrastructure to upgrade the grid, and I hope you're joking about batteries. People are out of their minds with all that stuff when the alternative is a 4p / kwh gas boiler for the house and their existing car at £1.40 / litre for petrol. It's absolute insanity.

@@davelowe1977 Let's look at the numbers. 4p/Kwh gas is about the same cost/KWh heat as 10p/KWh electricity, assuming a CoP of 2.5 in a heat-pump. If the heat-pump has better than 2.5 CoP, it is actually cheaper than gas. Besides, a couple of years ago gas prices were 4x this. And regarding petrol home-charged EVs are far cheaper to run than ICEs.

@@jonb5493 Except that gas is 7.67p kWh and electricity is 29.49p kWh meaning that with your COP of 2.5, the electricity is 35% more expensive. Also, once there's no competing fuel, the electricity price will skyrocket.

Corporatism in action. You think it’s a coincidence that during the recent contagion of unspecified origin that small businesses closed at an unprecedented rate whilst the big corporations made the biggest profits they’ve ever done? You think it is a coincidence that big corporations love and push for more and more government regulation and legislation that they can afford but smaller businesses can’t? All part of the plan. You will own nothing and be happy.

ISTR Stacey's Mum drove a 5.0ltr Mustang Convertible. Still not ULEZ compliant, however... ;o)

It is if it is a Euro 6 engine.

They'll never happen in anything smaller than a truck. _"Li-ion batteries can store more power per volume or weight unit than LFPs. For example, the energy density of a typical Li-ion battery is around 45-120 Wh per lb (100-265 Wh per kg), while the energy density of a LiFePO4 battery is about 40-55 Wh per lb (90-120 Wh per kg)."_

small amount battery fired 🔥 compared to combustion ICE carrying gasoline 🔥 around cause thousands if not millions of deaths!

​@@m4rvinmartian Dunno what you are talking about.. For example Tesla's Chinese manufactured cars use mainly LFP packs since the start. Chinese EVs will soon be almost exclusively something else than NMC. From 2020 to 2022, before the Berlin and Austin factory, basically half of Tesla's were manufactured with LFP packs. The current Model 3/Y 60kWh LFP pack makes for a great EV at as low as ~35k€ after incentives.

even with fireproof battery i still love to rev the hell out my itb shtbox,sounds good,feels good. gas is near free here too

@@m4rvinmartian You are seriously misinformed, they are already in the Tesla Model 3 & Y RWD and all new BYD's.

That is why legislators needs to stop the Ev mandates and eliminate carbon pricing. Evs are still infeasible for many of us and punitive legislation against us is unfair and should be unconstitutional. Taking my money away doesn't make it easier for me to "go green" it makes me find ways to cheat the system and push for political changes.

They really don’t save that much in Fuel costs. A model 3 charged at home at 15 centers kWh is still 1/2 the fuel cost of driving a rav4 hybrid. Once you include the purchase price of most EVs it really isn’t cheaper.

@@PinkFZeppelin My Leaf has 65KWH capacity. Electricity is 0.08/KWH. I use 25-30% commuting 60 miles. Cost is $1.30-$1.60 per day. RAV4 hybrid is a better car IMO, but in terms of fuel cost, it wouldn't even come close.

@@stephankrasner .08/kwh is insanely cheap, nearing the cheapest in the country. The average in the USA is twice that. At 20kw to go 60 miles, which is only possible in ideal weather, you’d be at $3.2. Current national average gas price is $3.4/gal and it would take you 1.5 gallons to go 60 miles or $5.1. So the leaf would actually be a little more than half the fuel price of a rav4 hybrid even with at home charging with national averages. If charging costs more than 25 cents/kwh, which it is most charging stations, it’s more expensive to drive the leaf. They just don’t work out to be all that much cheaper in fuel for most Americans.. Maybe save 1000 bucks a year in the most ideal of scenarios. Which often the increase in insurance wipes out and the total cost of ownership certainly does.

@@PinkFZeppelin 5.1 is 3x more than 1.6. I never claimed EVs were for everyone.

EV is good for short trips where a ICE car would not get to operating temperature and would result in fuel dilution and premature wear. Why not have multiple cars in the collection?

he did say that he has owned both. does that not count in your book?

It’s a bit difficult to keep doing what works for you when government policies force you to use EVs

@@CircumcisedUnicorn true

The real truth is that unless you drive 400 miles a day an EV will suit you. Autistic men try every single day to convince themselves that they hate EVs but really they know they are the future.

To be honest I don’t think I would like to travel on a ship with lots of EV’s on board. It doesn’t matter what type of vehicle that starts the fire, but as you say once a fire hits an EV, there is no putting it out and if there are lots of EV’s the ship is doomed.

​@@marcandsebe There is a good method, extinguishing foam.

@@Peter-oh3pm Ok! You go on a ship and rely on foam to put out an EV fire.

@@Peter-oh3pm What is foam going to do? Just like with thermite, lithium ion battery fires produce their own oxidizer. You can't smother them - which is why even if they didn't burn at absurdly high temperatures, they would still be a problem. Combine it with their absurdly high temperatures and now you have a serious hazard. A hazard that isn't being properly identified as such because of politics/feelings. Yeah, that's going to end well!

You want to say its the patriotic duty of every EV to stop fires from landrovers and their ilk?

These are coming ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wjKbx0LFwow.html

Recharging any EV will always be a struggle for the physically disabled drivers, whether at home or while traveling, the infrastructure simply isn't there for us! While you've asked vloggers about the problems we face, I have yet to hear a peep from any of the "Disability Rights Advocates" groups!

Agree totally. I sometimes have to brake hard and cover my eyes ⚠️ Crazy bright lights on later cars has gone too far 🤬

Thankfully it seems it's not just me who thinks this, especially in the wet you literally cannot see anyone who maybe at crossings etc ...

Agreed, I think part of the problem could be auto lights, they don't seem to switch to headlights from beam until they have blinded you.

Yes we were talking about this at work. Having to drive down unlit country roads, with loads of elevation. Really struggling these days. Especially as I'm in a 2 series coupe, so low down anyway. Mainly oncoming, but also from behind. Without auto dimming side mirrors, quite draining.

You are absolutely spot on with that statement. Its getting ridiculous now.

IF EV are so wonderful, why do they need to use force to implement ?

Seriously, who does this comment/attitude help?

😂😂😂

@@stephencollins7714lighten up.

@@stephencollins7714 Actually I found it hilarious and it made my day just a bit brighter.

@@jeffreysalzman1497 there is my answer then 😂

What do you mean by short range? Most EVs can easily cover many days of a commute of 50-100 kms. The typical suburbia use case.

@glenbruton79 And as I said, these people often live in housing without reliable parking. It's not necessarily about the car but people's ability to safely or affordable parking spaces with charging. Range isn't a problem.

@@OTPulse suburbia is not apartment living

@glenbruton79 what the he'll are you talking about? I never mentioned anything about suburban or apartment living.

@@OTPulse City living = apartment living

You couldn't be further from the truth. The government has been subsidizing gas for decades. They subsidize far more than they collect in taxes. Here's a quick read about it from the official website of the US Senate. www.budget.senate.gov/chairman/newsroom/press/sen-whitehouse-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-we-are-subsidizing-the-danger-#:~:text=As%20we'll%20hear%20today,record%20%244%20trillion%20of%20income.

You couldn't be further from the truth. The government has been subsidizing gas for decades. The taxes they collect are fast lesser than the subsidies. Here's an article from the official US Senate website saying as much. www.budget.senate.gov/chairman/newsroom/press/sen-whitehouse-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-we-are-subsidizing-the-danger-

only areas with the highest fuel taxes and road saturation come anywhere near covering the cost of infrastructure with the fuel tax, I dont think anywhere on the north american continent actually covers infrastructure with the fuel tax. Might change if gravel roads get put into suburbs.

@@DctrBread can you please state were you obtaining the information?

@@sgtbrown4273 a different youtube video lol, not my original research

it was a hybrid diesel Range Rover

You lack balance, you're instead telling the truth. JM tries to tell half truthes by balancing lies and truth.

DIRTY RAT USED CAR SALESMAN RAT RAT RAT RAT .

I haven't paid for petrol or diesel with cash for 30 years either.

Who uses cash these days?

its more of a concern with less developed countries, not to exclude developed ones of course. but when network cut off or system overload can just happen anytime due to improper infrastructures its very worrying for future EV users living in those areas.

​​@@sargfowler9603I do. 😊 Cash is your private property. Money on your bank account are simply a credit, are not "your". From a legal point of view, is the bank allow you to "spend" the credit they have versus other banks (i.e. the bank of your supermarket). Obviously, the bank can revoke this "privilege" at any moment by pressing a button. Did you catch the difference? Think about tomorrow at the supermarket. Your money is not involved when you buy stuff, it just a talk between banks.

cashless payments hinge on the same resource as EVs and increasingly our whole society. Electricity. The biggest threat to a future society that does mobility, heating, cooling, payments, smart homes, etc via this one single resource is that concentration of risk. What will we do after a day of a power outage, 3 days, a week? Will supermarkets battery backup their payment terminals so we can get canned food out of them legally? Will terrorists figure out that the most damage and chaos they can do is simply attacking a few substations outside a big city that will take days to fix? There are solutions to all of this but only very few people haven even started to think about them. Cash Payments might be such a backup solution.

😂Tesla model Y will be the most sold carmodel

​@mikafiltenborg7572 Dream on... EV's aren't popular, in the Netherlands only company leased cars are EV's because employees are forced into them. Further unnecessary subsidies are given... I don't want one.

@@shaking6360 you'd be surprised. Tesla model Y will be in the top 3 globally if it isn't number 1 this year. The other two are toyota Corolla and Toyota RAV4. You see model Ys everywhere but they've only been out about 18 months in the UK.

I worked as a milkman in the late eighties and not one millkfloat ever caught fire on its own.😂 we are going backwards not forwards.

😂

Idk if you’ve heard, but she’s got it going on…..

This was my main take as well

Now Limited to 20 MPH Mind You !

Thanks! It's a tough topic to tackle without becoming biased or sensational

Even though the ICE ban isn't until 2035, the manufacturers still have to hit a slowly rising 80% target by 2030, plus they have C02 targets too. Over the next 3 years you will see a big flip. Manufacturers will be offering EVs and small engined cars. Pretty much anything with a inefficient engine wont be viable under the new rules unless the manufacturer has built up lots of credits by selling EVs.

@@virtualcircuitwell best we can do is cross our fingers and hope that a significant portion of countries changes politically against the actual anti ICE agenda

The most environmentally friendly car is the one you already own.

You're told c02 emissions from ICE engines are bad. Well I've a 10kg bottle of r404a refrigerant in the back of my van. Its c02 equivalent is 39.2TONS, or 275,000kms in a car or 916years of a 10w lightbulb. I'll stick to my 23 year old 1jz Toyota Crown Athlete VX

@peterpan6821 depends what you mean when you say "environment" and I think that's part of the problem with the discourse with EVs. People say they are better or worse for the "environment" but what does this mean? Saving the planet - putting aside the fact the planet itself will be fine, I think there's enough data to show EVs are less damaging than ICE but I accept its contested. Plus, the incredibly overlooked fact is getting people OUT of cars and walking, cycling or using public transport is actually best. Air pollution - I think this is clear that EVs are better from this angle. As above, getting people into other modes of transport is unfortunately overlooked, as this would have the same result as well as reducing congestion for those still driving a car. Noise pollution - much the same as above. As someone whose job is related to EV sales, I am too often frustrated at the extreme points of view put forward on both sides of the EV debate. Nice to see someone trying to present a balanced view for once.

EVs suck lmao... Bad for environment, Slave labour to get minerals, Long charge times, Not cheaper to run tbh, When battery dies or gets worse in 5-10 years you need to fork out lots of $ for a new one 🤡

Great points. If you think an electric car is green you have to ignore everything about it's manufacturing, power source and it's disposal. I think most EV environmentalists just like the idea that they are saving the planet and don't really care to look into it any deeper than there is no smoke coming out of their nonexistent tail pipe.

Have you replaced the battery yet?

It's not an EV. flooded battery is definitely not the original long time ago :) @@billscott6040

All modern cars EV, ICE or hybrid are more difficult to repair (compared to one 22 years old) because they all have tons of computers, more advanced technology and safety equipment.

@@firstlast-lt6xp Yep! and with EV/Hybrid repair difficulty goes to a whole other level. Most American / Japanese ICE vehicles are decent when it comes to parts availability and have affordable work vehicle models. EV/Hybrid fits neither of those categories at this stage.

@@firstlast-lt6xp this trend to more complex ones is not sustainable one, and on top of it EV battery replacement cost would be more expensive than any today's car motor related repairs combined, so long term ICE so more cost effective

Damn that's crazy pricing. My home charging for me was $.12/kwh, and superchargers $.20 to $.30 per kwh depending on the state in the US, making it a very economical choice either way, although a prius driven carefully (my dad gets ~60mpg in his) can get close so long as gasoline stays under $4/gallon. And while it was under that when my dad and I had that conversation, I haven't driven a gas car in 5 years so I've got no idea what they're looking like now.

Yeah sounds like an Audi getting charge at a BP station. Anyone that does this deserves to pay 85p per kWh.

Zoe 40 and a Kia ceed sw1.4 Turbo here. The Zoe does city all day long and recharges during evenings in our park space and the ceed does both city and long ranges.mi would say it's a great combo.

You can get charging for about 50p/kWh if you get a subscription plan - if you travel more often on rapid chargers it's cost effectively. But, I agree, it's too expensive (and it shouldn't be necessary to subscribe, though you can do them one month at a time, if you need.)

My latest car was less than £3,000 used, costs £0 to tax, about 10p/mile in diesel and does 750 miles on a full tank. I was looking for used EVs with the criteria of under £3,000 and able to do 200 miles (slightly under my longest semi-regular journey) and nothing came up. I'd definitely consider one as a commuter car but not until I've got a driveway and solar panels, otherwise the cost of electricity makes it uncompetitive.

Nio have the answer with 5 min battery swap technology, what’s needed is the politicians to standardise battery’s to a common form factor, like they did with usb c

this is the solution. another solution is to focus a lot of R&D on affordable range extender hybrids

If a person can't charge at home they are effectively being written out of personal motorised transport.

I was charging today as I shopped , this will be the standard , you'll charge whilst doing something , whether thats working , shopping , watching a film , at the gym etc so actually Evs will be more convienent than fossil fuel car .

@@davefitzpatrick4841 And for the many, many people who don't spend hours doing those things? Also, we'll need a hell of a lot more chargers. Is that really going to happen? Or will the government do very little because the relatively wealthy can charge at home, and the relatively poor... well, the governments just don't care about them. The idea that governments sort things out for us is not borne out by reality.

you go ahead and keep living in your hours-of-traffic city if that’s what you prefer then 😂

You could carry out a full engine rebuild on your Aston @ circa 100k miles for less than the cost of the Tesla battery..

@@zm321 yep...

just imagine amount of pollution due to 2 battery replacement on such a small mileages. Your old grumpy v8 would never come even close to that amount :)

Tesla...the environmental choice...🤔...oh! 😳 😄

@@douglasb.5601 Exactly

Thanks! It's important to me to be balanced

Really interesting and well researched video Jay, as a petrolhead I have been following you for some time and like what you do. I am about to get myself a small car, have thought about an EV, but can’t bring myself to buy a vehicle which needs me to sit for a long time waiting for it to refuel on a journey-so I am going to buy a small petrol car. Like most people the majority of the driving is within a 50 mile radius of my home-but my daughter and grandchildren are 200 miles away and I often go there and back in a day. I can do this journey very easily in a small petrol car without having to stop for fuel and don’t see any reason to change my habits. Being 75 years old I think petrol cars will see my driving life out so don’t need to worry about being forced into an EV.

@@K777John Do you do the long journey without stopping for a pee/coffee etc? Most modern EVs will take on a substantial amount of charge in a 15min pee stop. Depending on how often you do long journeys, you can decide if its worth losing out on the EV benefits the rest of the time. Other reasons NOT to go EV would be if you couldn't charge at home, purchase price was prohibitive or insurance quotes were silly. Main reasons to consider the EV is lower running costs & maintenance, better driving experience (that's obviously subjective but having owned both, I'd never go back to ICE) and waking up to a full "tank" every morning. I also think depreciation on EVs is going to be far less than ICE vehicles. It doesn't appear that way currently when you look at things like the Audi etron gt etc. Teslas depreciation is solely linked to the fact they've dropped the sticker price of new vehicles massively. I think EV adoption is at the start of an S-curve and will grow exponentially. Anyone saying EVs are a fad and won't take off etc sound like the same people who said that horseless carriages would never take off. I'd suggest test-driving some EVs. If you don't like driving them then anything else is irrelevant. Also, consider leasing the EV. Takes away any worries of ownership if your annual mileage isn't overly high. I lease a Kia E-niro 64kw for £250 a month currently.

⁠​⁠@@airchie2 You are right in many ways, and I drive an EV myself, as does my wife, for many years now. But the truth is, there are no EVs available that fit his bill. Namely being small, affordable and doing a 400 mile roundtrip in a day. That's realistically at least 7 to 9 hours of driving. I have a 77kWh Ioniq 5. With that he could do the roundtrip with three 10-15 minutes stops, which is sensible, but this car is neither small nor inexpensive. An early like 2019 64kWh Kona would be somewhat smallish and also not overly expensive, plus it's quite straight forward and easy to understand and a fairly good EV overall. But even tho it can also do 400 miles with 3 stops, those stops are more than 30 minutes each. And those stops are not conveniently spaced. On his way there, he'd have to stop for half an hour, only half an hour or so away from his destination. Then on the way back he'd have the two stops spaced more conveniently, but grand total he'd spend one and a halve to two hours extra for the roundtrip. And the Kona isn't actually a small car, it's just not very spacious. It's just too much compromise, IMO, for the task at hand. More affordable, smaller cars with USABLE range aproaching 200 miles and fast enough charging are coming, such as the new offerings from Citroën (EC3) or Renault (R5), but right now there's nothing available that makes sense for him.

@@adrianguggisberg3656 ah yes the 60 000$ battery. future

Yes it makes me smile that refuelling ICEs is banned in most carparks but they are putting in EV chargers.

I would drive a golf cart on city streets to do my shopping. I would drive my ICE car for longer trips. I would not rely on EV alone.

LPGs are banned from underground parking lots because propane is heavier than air and should they leak the gas will ultimately sink to the lowest level creating an explosive situation. Meanwhile LNG CNG and Hydrogen fueled vehicles are not banned.

It seems like just another way of dividing people into those who can afford an EV, and those who are too poor to own such an expensive luxury item, therefore they are the primary cause of climate change and need to be treated as vermin.

German laws for garages are especially stupid.. you are not allowed to put anything besides a car into a garage- that includes for example your winter tires.. the same tires that may be on the car.. or even in the car.. but not besides the car.. obviously for private single home garages EVERYBODY is breaking the law- most people without knowing it. But when you have a bad neighbor.. shit is stupid. Did I mention you also are not allowed to wash your car in you own driveway in any capacity?

My thoughts exactly. There is a great lack of small cars out there and I think it's all by design.

Very much so, but customers want giant SUVs so that’s what the car makers sell

​@@youtubasoarus the Fiat 500E, leccy MINI, Ora Funky Cat etc? Kia made an electric Soul a decade ago.

And therein lies another problem My sister in law lives in a nice block of flats in Brighton.8 parking spaces outside, always full of residents cars (as you would expect) how would she charge at home? Not many public options there either, and this is a "green" led city.

@@richardharrold9736 Yeah I saw the 500E but it was crap and the range was poor. I did love the looks though. Better off with the gas version.

MG was the warning sign. Indian rubbish.

A Tesla will plan the route and necessary charging points. It takes account of the weather, altitude and route. No range anxiety.

What was your miles per kWh What was your speed and weather (cold and dry, or cold and stormy?) And above all - what was your tyre pressure? The excess energy waste of petrols and diesels and their better nature to higher speeds hides from us the fact that driving conditions impact greatly.

​@@robertwhite3503but also F Tesla? Charging infrastructure should be a public utility, and petrol stations should be forced to accommodate since they're the ones flogging over a hundred years of oil

TLDR: The vehicle did the journey.

The thing is that without a strong incentives toward EV, oil companies lobbying runs amok. It's like the pain of the blood flowing back to a limb after it was starved from blood flow for too long. It sucks but it is necessary. That also apply to the phasing our of car dominance in cities, it's a temporary pain that will be forgotten in a generation (30 years) and we will be better for it.

If makers are legislated to make EVs they cannot wait for people to be ready to buy one in their own time. They have to be actively marketed to. In the UK the push back of the law change from 2030 to 2035 has had an impact, as manufacturers had geared up for the 2030 change - a person could be mistaken for thinking from car ads that only EVs are available now. Why? Because the supply is somewhat there but reciprocal demand isn’t. It would be nice for it to be a free change if and when people want to make the change to EVs, but other effects on the market mean there feels this change is perhaps being pushed upon customers.

I think did see that fire.. All fuel types catch fire.. Fortunately not often 🤞

People are against evs but sales are up 130% yoy while all others are declining this is the valley of death we are already in it.

We don't make a big deal about Ferraris and Lamborghinis and yet they have more chances to burn down to the ground than EVs. The issue is more with the training of the firefighters that are not used to this kind of fire.

Remember that gas and diesel pumps require electricity. So no power for ev cars is the same as no power foe ice cars.

@@Tom55data Aside from the fact pumps often have a manual backup, you’re just deliberately missing the point.

@@gregc9344 no, I have never seen a petrol station with a manual pump, it is well known in national disasters that all fuel is a problem. Ev cars neither solve the problem or make the problem worse for transport. They do provide a house backup system like a petrol generator.

@@Tom55data If I lived in an alternate universe where I had an EV AND the option to charge at home and....I get home late, plug it in to charge it for my next work day that starts on the road, being a freelancer.... only to realize when I get up a couple hours later that there was a 4-5hrs power outage in my street or neighbourhood - which happens about 2-3 times a year and I only have 50km left to drive electronically. Or less. Are you really going to compare this "slight" inconvenience 1:1 to one gas station being out of power and just driving to the next one and top off your tank in 5 minute for another 600-800km depending on what car you drive? The points people think they can make are just ridiculous. Do you expect people to get up in the middle of the night and check for power outages? Do you expect them to compensate for this risk and sleep less so they can drive to another neighbourhood and charge up and THEN go to work if they have to.

@@caleidoo nothing would convince you of anything so I won't waste my time, enjoy your life and you world.

Luton had nothing to do with EVs. Had a very similar fire in Liverpool a few years ago (pre EV) also Range Rover. Not just Range Rovers, you want a car that shouldn't be allowed in a multi-storey car park it's a diesel Opel Zafira (Cork/Stavanger).

@@grahamleiper1538 Of course EV's were a factor in the Luton fire, even if they were not the cause.

@@zm321 why do you think that? Carbon copy of the Liverpool fire from a few years earlier. Very few EVs then.

@@grahamleiper1538 Seriously?? The Liverpool fire was 6 years ago! It's a safe bet that there would not have been anywhere near the % of EV's in that fire as there would have been at Luton, simply because there are that many more EV's around now. So how on earth was Luton a 'carbon copy' of Liverpool???

@@zm321 exactly, and it was virtually identical. You have loads of people saying "we didn't have fires like that before, must have been EVs" when we had a virtually identical fire without EVs. It was even started by a Range Rover.

I recommend you take some time in picture using such a device to put out a fire, and imagine being one of the firemen who has to do that, where in the past they just put foam on the fire. and, the vast majority don’t have that equipment nor training to use it. all of that costs money that is not budgeted. so yes, but it will never be the same: normalizing EV fires is the most likely way forward.

@@JoeOvercoat I was on the course because I do use the equipment. It's far easier to use than a hose and foam, you also don't need to get as close to a regular car fire as you just slide it under the car. A normal car fire you have to get close and get the bonnet or doors open to get the foam on the fire. This just slides under the car and the water pressure drives the spikes up into the battery. It is far easier and quicker to use than foam. Also they are budgeted for, hence why they're being trialed and bought, it's not just a random firefighter going out and buying one.

@@thomasclougher2281 and so now we need 16 000 liters of brine solution in every fire truck to put out an EV? I have put out a petrol car fire with a 3kg powder extinguisher, calmed the family, got my tools out and fixed the problem. Then got back in my car and drove off.

@@seanworkman431 brine solution? I don't know where you've got that from. I'm not arguing or sharing an opinion here. I'm just relaying facts that the fire service have access to and are testing equipment that fits on their truck and allows them to put out an EV fire with similar ease to a normal car fire. Unless you mean in relation to the boundary cooling, in which case I meant that in support of car parks having a proper sprinkler or hi-fog system installed, where even if you can't put out an EV fire, it would help massively in limiting the spread of the fire. Obviously a fire truck would tap into a nearby hydrant if it was at a multi-storey car park. Even one which doesn't have a sprinkler system is almost guaranteed to at least have a fire hydrant.

@@thomasclougher2281 have you done any fire training? Smoke is hot and thus rises, meaning all the fire exits would be at risk and breathing apparatus required but the safety of the tenents would be of priority. An EV fire is much hotter than a regular vehicle fire and if thermal runaway occurs then it creates it's own fire triangle and will just burn no matter what. A brine solution is just heavily salted water that will remain liquid even below zero degrees and has been used in experimental situations and works (sort of) but having the equipment to do that is going to be a costly exercise. I would suggest 'auto expert john cadogan' for further insist into this electrical madness.

Also depends in the size of your country. The US is much more infrastructure dependant due to its size, while people in smaller countries will only need infrastructure maybe a few times a year at most

And I suspect the residual value of ICE cars will continue to fall as norms shift and restrictions on emissions in urban areas become stricter. No-one wants to be holding the unwanted asset when the music stops.

@@furry_homunculus That's what competition is for. It's not a cartel. Chinese car-makers will steal all their customers if they don't remain competitive. The main trick to making more money has sadly been the concentration on larger vehicles, which is bad for both the planet and people on foot/bikes, never mind people who just need a small, cheap car to get about. Again the Asian manufacturers will fill that gap if legacy manufacturers don't. So I'm reasonably confident that we'll see cheaper vehicles as battery prices drop, and especially when people get used to the idea that they don't need a 300 mile car if there are enough chargers, so they can have a 40kWh battery, not an 80kWh one.

Petrol cars are banned in the EU by 2030 lol

Decent work around 😮

Crazy prices for personal transportation even at £1k pcm. Hope you have a good private pension for the future.

They don't want anyone except the rich driving, disabled or not.

Genuine question, how are motorists with limited mobility catered for today, is it a case of potentially going backwards with EV charging of failing to move forwards (neither acceptable of course)?

Agreed. Fantastic to see that assessment. The handicapped get a lot of lip service while their needs get brushed aside.

@@stephencollins7714 In America the gas station provides the service, which often falls on the clerk’s shoulders. It’s a clunky arrangement, but it works.

You don't see an issue with being identified and thus potentially declined from the ability to buy potentially emergency power for your car? *facepalm. How far we have fallen. Advocating KYC for filling up your car. Amazing.

So you want a fascist state in control of banking so you can drive an electric car around.. crazy

Any other car except Tesla is a real nightmare to charge on the motorway. The Tesla supercharging experience, and the wretched, crippled, broken state of every other charging network in the U.K. makes Tesla the only EV you should consider in the U.K.

Thats how chargers work in Finland. They have their own apps so doesnt matter what country youre from or your card.

Been on the horizon for 30 years, even if they solve the problem today it will be 5+ years before manufacturing at scale could even start

@@ericpisch2732 Toyota claim 2027-28. Thanks for replying

If you live in Australia and have a solar panel built in one day EV's may make sense

Solid state battery.. Lmao@u. Like cold fusion. It's just a few years away, and has remained just a few years away for the last 3 decades!

Why will it? Why does it matter one jot if your battery is made out of blancmange and unicorn hair? If it has the capacity to serve your lifestyle correctly and will last (as they are proving to very well indeed) who cares what the tech is.

Go try to pay cash for anything when the power is out anywhere SMDH.

@@4literv6 how is it gonna charge if power is off? it would be good not to be billed for something that has no power...LOL

Also cashless puts thumb on the scale for poor, who more frequently pay in cash for various reasons including a poorer credit rating. Not to mention the Pandoras box it opens to potentially tracking driving usage for a future carbon footprint score, since we all know that going EV at best is going to only solve between 5 to 12% of the overblown global carbon emissions problem, depending on global uptake of EVs and their power sources.

@@6Sparx9 you can use debit cards too lol. boomer issues

yeah. no man. you know i didn't even think about how bad of an issue no cash option is. you don't have full control over you money with a card. and thats all needs said if you ask me. pull up to charge up to find out there is some kind of bogus bs to do or extra to pay. at only 5 miles of range left for example....you have to pay what ever it cost. and it could cost twice as much as other options. can just put 5 bux in to hold you over til a better charge option. no. nope. i don't the sound of no cash option man. and thats not touching how much control some one else has over you. i've heard, like you all very likely have heard of cases where people get the bank account blocked for some political bs policy thats tide in with your bank and suddenly some mother f'r has you by the balls... I NEVER WILL LET GO OF CASH OPTION. and the way its looking, sooner or later, we are gonna face out got dam government telling us how many f'ing miles we are allowed to drive, weather its for green bs reasoning or you get charged more per mile of charge after you exceeded you alotted miles given by the state. nope. this factor is my final nail in the coffin for an EV until i know for sure i can do cash when i need to....at any and all stations...not just this one here and there. and 80% of them all require you digital foot print. yeah speaking of such....what if you got aminor traffic violation pending in another state. like busting the speed limit on a road trip, fined for going over 12 mph and you need to fix that speed ticket with a state that is no where near you...click..and suddenly you can't get no charge until you paid that ticket off 3 states away. that the app your car requires to charge with is also diabled so you can't charge the got dam thing even at home or at a friends place or what not?? nope. im not liking this one bit now that im putting thought into this single factor. let alone the battery question marks yet to be answered. like...."am i gonna be the unlucky poor bastard that ends up dealing with a mega fkt battery fire???" burning my got dam house down or even worse. it catching fire mid night, catching god knows what else and who else others property/vehicle.garage/house...ect ect...on fire too. burning my dam car up in a blaze was the least of my problems when considering just how destructive them crazy fires get...that you basically CAN'T put out. and you can't really move yours or your neighbors f'ing house out of the blazes way. now can ya?? lol

Until the government bans ICE and hybrids.

Absurd that cash cannot be used, it should be illegal.

Credit cards are free, which is why I have a backup from a different bank. There's also a debit card as another alternative, so there's no reason to ever be stuck without a working card.

@@Xenon0000000000001 I remeber a time, when several gas stations weren't functioning, due to an extreme heat wave. I was in another town, on empty. Found a place with a generator for the pumps, but they could only accept cash. Dangerous situations arise, & can escalate quickly when infrastructure fails, & it comes down to what ya have on you.

It is not for the environment, Germans and French mostly just want to sell more cars...

Lets not panic about proposals until they actually become law or close to it.

To late then mate.

​@@robertp457It's not a problem if there are still elections in between. But you have to be aware of problematic proposals before they become law.

The Germans and Swiss finally have their 3rd reich. And just like the german socialist labour party 100 years ago they are banning any possible competition. EVils sucks and almost nobody wants them? Fascist solution: ban everything else

Totally agree. They're not for everyone and not everyone can get one. Some friends that do high mileage would really, really be better off with an EV, but they can't charge at home or work. Any savings evaporate when they have to use a public charger.

​@@sargfowler9603if user does very high mileage the choice would be euro 6 diesel not an EV. Lots of the scant available over priced high speed chargers don't even work when you get there!

@@sargfowler9603 - If you buy a used Telsa Model S prior to 2018, you get free supercharging for life. Or at least I did with a 2016 Model S that I bought in 2020. But I agree - EVs are a hassle unless you own a home or have access to a charger. I charge at home 95% of the time and I also have several ICE vehicles which I can take for really long road trips. Having a second ICE vehicle is a scenario that mostly works for couples who also own a house. For the single person without home charging access EVs don't make much sense. Finally, a plug-in hybrid is a great alternative allowing for full EV driving for short trips which is most days for most people and the ability to use gasoline when needed for longer trips.

I don’t know where you got your 5% recyclable numbers Barry. I’ve heard more like 85%. Let’s do some more research.

A battery lasting more than an ice? May you cite your source?

@@barrykochverts4149 5%. Mate you're way off with that number..

This is a lie. It often costs more then the value of the entire car to replace the battery. There are 40 year old Toyotas still running fine on the roads probably no single EV will make it 20 years without needing a full battery replacement let alone 40

lol just stating random bs without sources... EVs cost more and do not last longer than regular cars just look outside how many junkers run just fine... and any damage to EV batteries cost more to replace than the entire car most insurance agencies just write them off.

This could be easily resolved by the authorities releasing the vehicle registration of the car. The silence of the powers that be leads people to jump to their own conclusions.

There is a reason the registration hasn't been released and its not to protect the general public

User @f-u-nkyf-u-ntime has a comment that says; "I think there's actual footage of the offending vehicle on fire. A hybrid Range Rover. The flames were from the area of the battery, were horizontal and orange/white. There were reports that the owner drove into the structure with the car on fire, hence the footage, and that he emptied a fire extinguisher trying to put it out. To no avail."

@@iliyakuryakin4671Unfortunately if they release the registration and it was a hybrid then everyone will jump on the “yeah - it was the battery”. I think they want to actually do an investigation and then write a report and then release it with the evidence. It *may* have been a battery fire. It *may* have been a diesel fire. I’d like to see the evidence first. The video that’s circulating doesn’t show anything - the fire is already well under way with multiple vehicles on fire, hence you cannot tell anything from it. Hence I will wait for the report before forming any opinion.

I've seen other videos and sources say it was E10 EFL - A diesel only Range Rover.