Great video Paul and totally agree with what you said. Please do a similar test between a Hybrid and Diesel…should be easier to find the same model in both forms…keep up the great work 😊
Absolutely agree with all your statements paul, people just dont watch the video fully or just look at the headlines. Appreciate that you actually respond and in someway shutdown all those critics!
The real world can be very different from what we read in the brochures at the dealerships, luckily there are people who invest time and effort to show us the simple reality. Thank's for your work!
@@simonmiller5118Jesus Christ give it a rest, you just know in yourself that it’s cheaper then mate. When you start your own car review site you can set it straight.
@@simonmiller5118 or if you are like me my home solar produces enough to cover my EV completely and then some - it's free (or technically the 5c per kwh feed in tariff I forego) = $5.35
@@adickman1959 Why - it's perfectly legitimate. I am a regular Blue Mountains (Sydney) - Melbourne - Sydney commuter and I start from home with a car charged 100% from solar - my whole trip to Melbourne cost me $49 including the cost of filling at the start, and it takes exactly the same amount of time as my previous ICE car - I take 10 1/2 hours no matter what car I am in - I stop 2 times each way to eat and use the restroom - charge time is zero as it doesn't even add a minute to the trip.
How about asking someone who has done this trip more than 15 times each way in an EV? Would that be expert enough? I swapped my Audi A4 for a Tesla model 3 and because I have a home charger like the majoriy of EV owners, it's cheaper and takes the same amount of time or less than in the Audi - I take 10 1/2 hours no matter what car I'm in - I stop 2 times each way to eat and use the bathroom regardless of the car I'm driving - plugging in is way quicker than filling up, paying and moving the car before going inside.
As an owner of a Volvo Ev I 100% agree that an Ev can’t be bet for local commuting and charging from home. For longer distances I’ll take my LR3 V8 over the Volvo every time! Great comparison video Carexpert!👍🏻
Agree, own both, use the Model Y about 90% of the time, costs us next to nothing to run, better and more enjoyable to drive etc. But any trips longer then 300km and we just use the petrol vehicle.
@@Kashchey1 no, but after trying a few long trips in the volvo and towing our camper with it concluded that LR3 was the go for long distance and towing the camper. Using both for what they are most efficient at can’t be any worse for the planet! Didn’t buy the ev to save the planet but primarily to save me money.
@@kingjnr2677 Genuine question, how do you save money when the EV is 20-30-40% more expensive then similar size ICE car? The cheapest Tesla model 3 here in UK is £40K, Model 3 Long Range is £50K, LR price is equivalent of fully loaded Skoda Superb and fuel for 5 years. For people like me without the ability of home charging, combined with the high EV purchase price, EV's are a no no. My current diesel estate(Hyundai i40) gives me 800miles(1300km) motorway miles per fuel tank. Cheers.
@@Dolph681 the only reason I could make the costs work is we have a novated lease scheme in Australia which means I saved on not having to pay GST, fringe benefit tax along with bundling all the running costs etc together for one payment taken off before tax. Won’t work for everyone but ended up being way cheaper in my circumstances, unfortunately won’t be much help for yourself in the Uk. If I was still back in Scotland I definitely wouldn’t have been buying an Ev.
I actually just said, if that's what people wanted, add an extra 600 litre fuel tank to the combustion vehicle. Be about the same weight and rude not to.
By not counting the initial full “tanks” and instead do in reverse and fill up on way you have skewed this result in a big way. A lot of people in Melbourne are on EV electricity plans. Where they can charge overnight for cheap or even during 11am-2pm for free. Even if overnight at 8c kWh it would have cost $8 to fill the bmw from 0-100%. That would significantly change the results and put the EV way ahead as you would only need to add the Tarcutta charge to work out the costs to get to Sydney. Making it less than the cost of the petrol version to get from Melbourne to Sydney. Same thing in reverse. Whilst it costs more to go from Sydney to Melbourne when you get home you can charge it back up at very little cost. So the real costs that you failed to mention would be ICE return trip $235.75. EV. 406kWh for return trip. 100% charged at home on off peak plan $8. Fast chargers 226kWh at 65c per kWh some chargers cheaper but let’s go with normally most expensive. $146.90 And then finally arrive home at 20% and charge 80% at home $6.40. So total EV cost $161.30 So $74 cheaper for the EV by using a real world example instead of the strange scenario you did of filling up with a fast charger at home, which is not a realistic example of how majority of EV users would charge their car.
I think the trip was almost a worst case scenario though - yes it happens, yes you should be aware this can happen, no issues with that. As a regular Sydney (Blue Mountains) - Melbourne - Sydney driver with a home charger, all I can say that I swapped an Audi A4 for a Tesla Model 3 and the trip is basically identiacal in an EV vs the ICE car for me at least - I start with a 100% charge at home and still stop 2 times each way for late breakfast and early dinner for the same amount of time I normally would, (except plugging in is quicker than refeulling, paying and moving my car) - the charge time is essentially zero as it doesn't add to the trip time - I am eating / using the restroom anyway regardless of what type of car I am driving. Basically the trip takes me around 10 1/2 hours each way no matter what I'm driving. I might be the exception rather than the rule but because I have a home charger and a big solar setup my home charging is free but technically costs me the .05c per Kwh foregone feed in tariff. 100% battery at home , cost $2.87 75% charge added Gundagai cost $29 45% charge added Euroa cost $18 top up to 100% at hotel $0 Total cost $49 = around 25L of fuel at $1.96 = 36km per litre or 2.77L per 100km If I needed to use a public charger in Melbourne it would be an extra $20 so (to get back to Euroa) = 25.7km per L or 3.89L per 100 - can't do this even in a RAV 4 hybrid.
Great comment! I 100% agree with you! My take is that an EV is mostly much cheaper, but can be equally expensive on long road trips in a worst case scenario. In addition if you have a Tesla the superchargers are more reliable, range is more predictable (less range anxiety) and cheaper.
Great summary. That was exactly my view on the original video comment that Paul spoke about on this video regarding charging at hotels and Air Bnb. Realistically, all drivers including EV owners would charge or fill up and opt for the cheapest form available throughout the journey from charging at home to arriving at the final destination. It would be similar to if drivers were able to fill up petrol for a few cents/ltr at home before starting their journey I'm sure they would most likely opt for that option 100%. Or if they found a service station offering petrol 15c cheaper than other near by stations I'm pretty sure they would be queuing for the cheaper station. Regarding Paul's comment about hotels that's fair but, realistically, people again would opt for the cheapest option. When I drove to Surfers, our hotel didn't have a charger but I still opted for the cheapest charging station- a free public one! lol, as they are still available at the shops and malls or at least charge at a public charger that only charged low rates while I shopped or played golf. I too have both an ICE and EV and I find it is cheaper to run the EV anually charging at home as my daily driver, even if you factor in the couple of long family road trips I might do in the year. The savings negates any possible cost of a long road trip. I also find travel times similar as when I drive my petrol car on long road trips. As I would fill up and take stops where there's McDonalds near by and end up having a bite to eat and stay around 30mins before moving on.
you are assuming that a charger will always be available and servicable. I've seen the new Pheasants Nest upgrade south of Sydney and watch as all the chargers were in use and many electric vehicles parked up with people waiting. At some point, if EV's take off in sales, the instant drive up and charge will not be the case. You may have to wait another hour or so, depending where you are in the queue. Then I await complaints about charge rage, where people squat on chargers. Its going to be an interesting evolution.
@thesolver1970 I drive a Model Y using the most reliable Tesla Super Charger network that's constantly expanding every year and are also making several available to non Tesla EVs to use around the country. I didn't experience much wait time during my recent road trip to Surfers from Sydney over Xmas an NYs, as I feel EV owners are realising it's much faster to charge upto 80% and continue their journey. As charging speeds dramatically slows after 80%. And the car's navigation will tell you when you have enough charge to reach your next destination and stop charging also.
Yes, agree. It keeps being an argument in our family. We have a new KIA EV6 AWD. It is used 95% for trips to work and run around locally. We have large solar and in just over 3000km it cost us $13.55 in "fuel" since we wanted to test a fast charger, so we knew that we were familiar with it if needed. I informed my wife that on a longer trip (more then 500km round trip) I prefer to take our old 2006 Toyota Camry. Same or less fuel cost then our EV6....zero range anxiety.
No experienced EV driver would charge their car that way. We do a modest bit of planning, we use apps like ABRP, and we make sensible use of lower speed destination chargers.
I drive model 3 and the comparison video was fantastic in my opinion! My friends wanted to buy an EV just because I have it and some others have it. I went through lots and lots of calculations to justify the extra cost it involves buying an EV to a comparable petrol car. The video shows the limitation of an EV that future buyers need to understand. Thank you Paul and the team for an amazing video!
Paul, the fact that you are able to maintain a sense of professionalism and joviality with comments from absolute f**kwits is astonishing...you have my respect!
I think the issue with the test (and peoples responses) was: it measured one element of car ownership: road trips. Then the EV and non-EV camps waged war. I think the SAME test but for a few day to day scenarios would be great. e.g. Day to day commute + weekend chores - scenario 1 access to charge at home, 50km a day in the 2 BMWs. Scenario 2 - No access to charge at home, as above. Etc. Comparing these will likely reveal EV is victorious and then add some balance to the discussions.
No. The test was about long range driving. It wasn't designed to be an urban test. EV Stans just can't handle the truth. I'm not in either camp but it's funny when science contradicts preconceived truths. EVs in large barges just isn't a thing.
The point about free charging is valid. Also, as an EV driver you don't do what you just did. We are not "EV nuts" just sensible people who understand how to do a long distance trip.
The purpose of your original video was very clear and thoroughly enjoyable. It’s clear that people don’t watch the video in full. It was very informative and gave a real world example irrespective of car. I’m someone who does drive down the Hume from Canberra to Melbourne a few times a year, and my ICE car is perfect for this. My fear of switching to an electric car is being stuck at a charger behind a number of other cars for hours adding more hours to a long trip, when my Macan can do the trip on less than a tank if 98.
The level of intelligence is dropping through the basement all over the world, which is shown in the fact that most people believe that Carbon, a gas that is VITAL to life on earth, is somehow the opposite and that unless we actually remove carbon from our atmosphere, we’re headed for an existential crisis. Add to this myth of Anthropomorphic Climate Change, the following; Too many people/not enough land, too many people/not enough food, the world is hotter than it has ever been, the moon landing was a hoax, the earth is flat, Covid-19 came from bats, Cv-19 came from human invention, Cov-2 is a real pathogen, Saddam Hussein really did have WMD’s (sic), the twin towers were not brought down by controlled demolition charges, Jeffrey Epstein killed himself, and JFK was killed by a lone gunman called Lee Harvey Oswald. The simple fact is (as Konstantin Kisin said in his brilliant speech at Oxford; people who can’t afford to be ‘climate warrirors’ and be anti-Greenhouse Gases, Fossil-Fuels, etc, are going to live their lives the way they can, WHATEVER way they can and there’s absolutely NOTHING anyone can do to stop them doing so. Nothing morally acceptable anyway. The whole NEED for EV’s is a based on a preposterous falsehood and is driven by the people who attend Davos every year to decide what the proletariat will be subjected to next. People who you wouldn’t leave your kids with for half a minute, get together and make all sorts of declarations about Climate Change that they then parlay into reasons why we MUST get rid of cows and other animals that fart too much, etc. They also insist that more and more laws are passed to make things ‘FAIRER’ and more ‘EQUITABLE’, so that we now have peolle of adult age who cannot answer the question; ‘What is a Woman?’ I had a conversation a few years back, with a man who seriously believed that there are more than two sexes. He said Gender, but as any intelligent person knows, ‘gender’ is a linguistic term that has absolutely NOTHING to do with sex (either the act, or the biologocal designation). It wasn’t until then that I realised that Orwell’s nightmare has come to actuall existence and people will argue that 2+2=5 with the absolute certainty that this is the truth and that all mathematicians who disagree are racists.
Ok, let's believe that you guys are not biased and that you didn't chose a scenario that was tailored to benefit a petrol car, a scenario which people may only experience once in their lives, maybe. Can we now see a test from you guys which covers the kind of driving that the vast majority of people do 99.9% of the time, which is urban diving with the occasional shorter country drive? Keep the cars over the space of a couple of weeks and only charge the EV at home, please.
Agreed. I drove a Tesla in California recently and honestly charge anxiety was a massive issue for me as I entered pretty rural areas and I charged it to 100% at extra inconvenience to avoid problems
@someyoutuber99 understand that the Melbourne to Sydney drive that was undertaken is between two cities, each exceeding population 4.5million, about 500 miles apart. The connecting Hume Highway is amongst the most travelled on the globe. There is zero excuse for range anxiety on this trip. He passed numerous opportunities to recharge, well before choosing to push his luck to 2%. He was either dumb, or dishonest.
@@petergosney6433I live in Australia and have driven on this route a lot, can’t speak to how easy it is to do in an EV. In my scenario specifically I drove from SF to Yosemite and back, this is also quite a well travelled route and having a diesel would have been easier / more convenient / cheaper. That’s not to shit on EV but just stating a pure subjective experience I had.
@@someyoutuber99 I appreciate your reasoned response. Many do not seem to comprehend the relative immaturity of EVs and their supporting infrastructure. By comparison, ICE infrastructure is superb. What rankles is “tests” like this that imply that the EV world will never catch up. I’ve driven mine across the Nullarbor, just to see how hard it was. It was tedious, but not hard. Soon, (within 2024) it will be no more tedious than a diesel is. I’ll explain if you ask.
Presumably that was a rental car. Hertz is trying to dispose of 20,000 EVs (many of them Teslas) in the US because renters avoid them due largely to range anxiety. Servicing costs have been too high. Hertz stock holders will pay dearly for the virtue signalling that drove the decision to buy these cars. The stock price has almost been halved over the last year.
@@johnoneill1011 soooo much BS. Hertz overestimated the demand for EVs, it is true; but the same could be true of any sector of the rental market. Consumers are concerned about range, true; because that is the way media sells them. But Hertz is not fire-selling. They are re-adjusting fleet proportions to fit public demand through normal rotation, they never hold rental cars longer than 2 years anyway. As for servicing, EVs need virtually zero servicing in their first 2 years. There is concern throughout the auto industry (globally) over repairing damaged EVs, but this is because cars with high voltage systems require proper training (i.e. qualifications) of repair workers, and the repair industry is not yet up to speed. This is a simple supply-and-demand issue that will correct itself, over time. Finally, Hertz stock prices have halved since the pandemic, in common with many industries that were similarly tested. Nothing particularly to do with going too hard in one type rental vehicle. The rest is hype.
Range anxiety disappears when there are as many fast chargers as there are petrol stations. Prices come down when there are enough competing networks vying for your business. Destination chargers (not even fast chargers) are what is needed most and not just in shopping centres.
@@tw0centsworth274but we live in the world today and the test was completed in todays' world. We are not there yet so we have to acknowledge where everyone is at with respect to range anxiety.
@@tw0centsworth274even if there were more charging stations, the length of time it takes would be problematic on long trips. My old diesel can take on 1300km of range in a few minutes. For an EV that could take hours. You would also need a very large number of charging points to avoid long queueing times.
@@alanjm1234nope. Charging is only getting faster. V3 Supercharger charges my Tesla Model 3 P in 10 minutes and it’s only going to get faster from there.
A very good, real world comparison. There is no doubt that EVs are most likely the most efficient vehicles in an urban environment but what a lot of urban dwellers can't seem to get their head around is that there are actually millions of us living in country areas where longer trips are a fact of everyday life. Eg: An evening earlier this week was from nere in Northern Vic down to Castlemaine, the Dandenongs then return -- 600kms. Last week, down to Melbourne for medical appt then return -- 500kms. A couple of weeks ago, drive to Sydney and return (in a day...) -- 1,600kms. An EV just is not capable of doing this practically. Well done, CarExpert.
Agree with your points. There’s pros and cons to both EVs and ICE vehicles. People need to let their dogmas have a rest. I think you summed up their strengths and weaknesses and people need to accept real world testing. This is coming from someone who has a Model Y and Ranger Raptor so I appreciate both platforms.
In my view, no real need to worry about these hate comments. As you said Paul, they are a funny bunch. Very passionate anti EV or pro EV. As for me, EV works for me as a second car and loving it.
Great to see this feedback session Paul! I'm still not personally sold on an EV as a vehicle for those longtrips, of which I make a few, specially with electricity continuing to rise. However, the Tesla Model Y vs RAV4 hybrid with both a Summer and a Winter test comparison, would be great. Add to that, double up that test with 1) an Urban-only testing component and 2) A long "family" trip full with luggage and passengers, maybe as the same return leg from Sydney back to Melbourne.
Hi Paul, Great video. I saw an article written by one of your employees in relation to this test, and the commentary it invoked. Polarising indeed. As it happens, I had a discussion about EVs yesterday at a Volkswagen dealership while enquiring about the Tiguan R (which, by the way, apparently Australia is not getting a 2024 Tiguan R that reverts back to the more traditional physical buttons on the steering wheel). In practice EVs are great for city driving, and I think a lot of people who do most - if not all - of their driving local to where they live have very good reason to consider the EV. But I don't think any reasonable person could deny that - presently - an EV is a vehicle that you must treat with kid gloves. Anything more than a modest journey becomes an exercise in logistics and planning. Essentially, you're working for the vehicle, when in reality the vehicle is merely a tool that should be working for you. For anyone that doesn't want to bend over backwards babysitting an EV, traditional internal combustion engines will continue to make sense until the EV proposition is similarly 'no fuss' in nature. And as for me personally, someone who 5 to 10 times a year does a Canberra to Newcastle trip to visit family, hybrids make much more sense right now. They might be a halfway house, but the promise - no fuss driving, and the car continuing to work for you instead of you diligently toiling away for the car - is much more compelling.
In our experience, being a bit older, the days of driving till you drop have gone, the EV long distance trip dovetails perfectly with our lifestyle, we don’t care about stopping as it matches our need for sustenance and emptying our bladder etc, usually 1 stop for the day and charge at overnight stop, works out to 5 hours more on a trip than ICE from Sunny Coast to Cairns, take a chill pill and enjoy the ride. 😜
Speak about yourself with distances. I am 70 & still do 1000k drives. It was only a month ago I drove a rental truck from Sydney airport to Hervey Bay in a day.
I think what most people with this type of comments "who drives xxxKM without stopping for a pee break/lunch/dinner break?" fails to understand is... with an ICE car, they can choose to stop or choose to go. with an EV, you are FORCED to stop do you see the difference?
Just drove Sydney - Melbourne and return on the long weekend in our new BYD Dolphin. Found the experience to be totally different to yours. Charging was far cheaper than petrol. We avoided Tesla chargers as non Tesla drivers pay a hefty premium. Tesla is 95c per kw whilst BP is 60c and Chargefox / NRMA is 45c. Our cheapest charge was $11 and our most expensive $27. We charged when we wanted to stop for food, coffee, toilets etc. Despite being the long weekend, we did not have to queue for a charger anywhere. No need to charge more often than that and previous experience with petrol cars had us fuelling just as often. The only difference being that our petrol refuels we’re always above $60. Charging usually finished about the same time we finished eating. So no extra waiting time there. Doing the sums, the same petrol trip in our Kona would have costed double in fuel. Am I living on a different planet? Or, unlike your video, avoiding Tesla chargers made all the difference?
I thought it was a reasonable real world comparison. As he said most people don't have time to spend an hour planning the route and taking painful detours
The biggest concerns for me which weren't addressed above were : 1) The EV was filled at the end in Alexandria (Sydney) and the time and cost included. No mention of refilling the ICE at end - they only stopped once for 6 mins right? 2) both cars started at 100% but that fill cost was not included. The EV would be cheapest charged at home
I’m actually curious, perhaps Toyota is right in asserting the hybrid as the right product for transitioning to lower whole of product life co2 emissions.
Hybrids also do their best work around town where regenerative braking comes into play. On the open road at a steady speed, you are essentially carrying around the battery and electric motor for no real benefit either. However I agree that battery technology is improving but this test was testing what is available now.
Toyota make a hell of a lot of money of hybrids so of course they are going to say that. I doubt Toyota is factoring in the environmental impact on the planet of mining and transport of fossil fuels
Tesla Superchargers uptime is polar opposite to that of 3rd party chargers so you can’t say road trips are anxiety inducing with wondering if chargers are working. This just simply isn’t the case with a Tesla.
You should have just kept testing more cars on till the EV wins and they buy a decaffeinated soy latte with a shot of wheat grass and give your self an environmental pat on the back.
Paul I love that you did this vid and called out the b/s comments for what they are! There should be two mandatory elements to enable comments on RU-vid: 1) an IQ test indicating a way higher than average IQ; and 2) a requirement to have watched the entire video at 1x speed. Fail either of these and comments not enabled! 🤣
The key word here, mentioned several times in the video, is "convenience". You might only make one long road trip a year, but if you do and it's inconvenient - as it would be in an EV - the EV is at an immediate disadvantage. I don't have to worry about having a full tank in my petrol car before I leave home. I don't have to plan significant diversions to get fuel. I don't have to look for a hotel that's close to a petrol station at my destination. You only need to go through that hassle once to be pretty annoyed at your new car, which already cost you more to buy than an equivalent ICE that didn't force you to work around it. (ETA: my ICE car goes just as far on a full tank in winter as it does in the summer too...) Long road trips may be a niche case, but no more so than people who only ever use their car for short urban trips and always have the ability to charge at home or their destination - for whom an EV is ideal. The real problem here is legislators around the world who have decided that the ICE is the root of all evil and that EVs are the only solution. The horse was replaced by the car as our personal transport because the car was fundamentally better in every respect: it could go further, faster, and carrying greater loads. The horse wasn't legislated out of existence. If legislation is needed to change behaviour it strongly suggests that the EV "solution" isn't fundamentally better for everyone.
Though poorly articulated, i think the observation some are making is that journalists rarely test/demonstrate the ownership experience of EVs in their natural environment. Going home, plugging in, waking up to a full charge, going about your day. Compared to fossil car experience - running late, realise you're running on fumes, damn i have to fill at the worst price in the cycle, carcinogenic fumes, finally back on the road, late for work. Give us a 1 month ownership test!
Great video! Some people just have to complain about everything. BTW, on the topic of efficiency, having a dedicated EV platform doesn't give you more energy efficiency. It can give you more space efficiency and design freedom, but efficiency doesn't really change that much outside of potential weight savings which we haven't seen realised yet in most cars. Heck, some of the most efficient cars on the road are things like the OG Hyundai Ioniq, which can easily average 115-120 wh/km.
It was a bold videp guys, hats off to you for doing it, it's a question many folk ask. I work for CUPRA and I guess I would say I am rather fortunate that our Born is genuinely energy efficient in our experience, even on the highway - where it typically does about 90% of the range of what we tend to see in Urban driving. But in no small irony there...our petrol CUPRA models are pretty darn efficient on yhe highway too! To summarise somewhat, I'd estimate our Born would be slightly cheaper on highway or possibly break even, but the weight difference of the Born versus even the larger Formentor is a considerably smaller delta. Only two cents to add to the BMW conversation, I must admit I was expecting the i7 to be a touch more efficient given the aero tech in the car...but I was even MORE impressed by the fuel efficiency of the mighty B58! A cynic would argue that it skewed the result more than expected, but one has to tip their hat to thst efficiency in a 2000kg+, large vehicle with a powerful engine, to get that 6.5-6.8L/100km is a spectacular result for the big Beemer, that's 4 cylinder efficiency! Perhaps for a fun stick to the keyboard warriors for a follow up, perhaps a BMW 420i Gran Coupe and i4 eDrive35, or an X1 eDrive20 and X1 xDrive20? Maybe then they'd sook a lot less about how expensive the cars you got to drive were 😂😂 Keep up the gutsy Auto Journalism CarExpert team!
With the reduction in petrol and increase in charger pricing it would be interesting to see you recalculate with the current rates. Clearly the gap would widen but it would be interesting to know by how much.
Unfortunately people out there have little knowledge about the outback road conditions. I really enjoyed the test you guys did. So I am still true believer the hybrid system is still the best option car to run
Well handled Paul. I liked your test and just remember, for every 1km of road there are 2km of ditch so there is always going to be more polar views than the middle of the road. Next time just do the test where the ICE car just leaves the EV behind and video how much fun with the extra time on their road trip. Or even better, throw a caravan behind a car/ute and see what the costs are for a car/van vs EV with hotel accomodation.
Most people are not looking to tow a caravan or take their car off sealed roads. Buying that functionality when you don't need it leads to the purchase of larger, heavier and more inefficient vehicles. The people who need that can get their information from specialised sites and forums.
Paul - I wouldn't bother addressing the comments of bots and trolls on Facebook, the platform is absolutely riddled with them. I've been an EV evangelist for over 10 years and yet I couldn't agree more with the fact that things are heading in the wrong direction (we should have NEVER got to a point where charging an EV on the road is more expensive than putting dinosaur juice in an ICE car...). It's a really sad state of affairs.
Good point but sadly in this country for the most part your electricity to run your car is generated by burning coal. That is the issue. Our grids are sadly 10 - 20 years behind where they should be.
@@jasonedgley9867 Renewable energy powers about 36% of the grid in Australia, it was 32% in 2021. Over 3 million households have solar panels so don't assume someone who owns an EV won't also have rooftop solar.
@@jasonedgley9867 The average Australian drives 37km a day, the most popular EVs sold in Australia use a around 5kwh a day, most people can find enough time to tip at least some of that 35kwh of power into their battery over a seven day period.
@@GDM22 Sure so the 7kwh they need for the day is produced by the system by the solely east facing panels in the morning or the solely north facing panels around midday or solely west facing panels for an afternoon top up charge for approximately 2 hours assuming the home is drawing no power itself and the day is clear and sunny with no panel shading or obstructions. Assuming a 10kw panel system with 8kw inverter and running at max 80% efficiency. (Max allowed system size by Origin) Great idea if you are retired or work from home. For the average daily commuter though? Back to my original comment about grid being outdated. I believe coal power plants cannot simply ramp up and down production easily in reality it takes days so rooftop solar generation and other forms of alternate energy production are generally wasted as rejected heat and we continue to burn coal instead. We have a long way to go to fix this issue and actually reduce emissions, at the moment just smoke and mirrors IMO. Interesting to see where we sit 3 to 5 years down the road
This is a really good study. So interesting that it is more expensive to drive an EV on long trips using public infrastructure. I started driving EV's 18 years ago, back in the grass roots days when it was only conversions, and although the power was cheap when making a trip using only powerpoints and 8 hour chargers, oh boy all the accommodation, food, shopping and other support for the three day trip to drive 3 or 4 hundred kilometres made it really expensive! Yes, good to point out though that home charging, especially if you charge during the day directly on solar, can make electricity costs quite reasonable. Thanks for your videos.
I loved the comparison. It was meant to be a contest of equals, ie, the same car from the the same manufacturer, just with different drivetrains. To then say its not a fair comparison because the EV weighed hundreds of kg's more and so the ICE had to have additional weight loaded into it is ridiculous in the extreme. By that measure if you found any charging stations that were free, you'd then have to negate the ICE car's petrol costs because then the EV had the advantage. Thanks for this review of the comments.
Don't worry. This happend when humans switched from riding horses to driving cars. Cars couldn't drive in the desert without road while horses could do it way faster especially over rocky hills. Back then there were limited number of gas stations & that severely limited driving distant. The argument was the horse was still much more versatile.
I can't remember if I was the one that wrote the last comment about urban driving, but if it was me, then I think I used the wrong word. Rather than saying "unfair" comparison I should have written "unbalanced". The review was very fair and I can't fault your scientific methodology, it all makes sense. You set out to test long distance driving and you came up with the answer any normal non-evangelist EV drivers would accept as being the truth. EVs would lose the towing heavy stuff comparison also. I think I was more annoyed that anti-EV bogans just constantly rip on EVs with misinformation and carexpert have done a tonne of reviews and the only one that get picked up by Channel 7 and other news organisations is 100% negative for EVs, so all the nuffies will just assume EVs are bad and all the anti-EV bogans that spread lies all day will feel validated. I would have preferred the Channel 7 piece to have said "EVs suck badly at long distance and towing, but they're way better at urban where the majority of Aussies spend their time driving". That would have been balanced. In hindsight I don't even think it was an unbalanced review because you said it was a long distance test an you can't help what stories Channel 7 does or does not pick up.
Actually the 740i can start from still purely electrical, the alternator is situated in the transmission and thanks to the valvetronic system situated also on the exhaust camshaft the electric motor can spin the engine without any gas exchange in the combustion chamber, so basically it spins freely. But it is just for short starts, not a true long range hybrid
This is actually funny. Take this video and change the use case. In my regio, with plenty chargers you don’t charge till 100%, but… Rapid chargers are twice the price you pay in Australia. It is usually between 0,75€ and 0,97€ per kWh. On the other hand: at home it’s about 38 cents and at the office 29 cents. So for a road trip an EV costs about 3 times as much as a regular car, but for local usage the price is similar. Why do we go electric on big scale? The government punishes ICE cars massively.
Honestly the experiment was great. I even go further and say the idea of adding dead weight to make the ICE car as heavy as the electric is pointless. The ICE is lighter because it has a fuel tank and not some big, heavy battery. That is just the way they are. If a ICE car has less weight than the EV, then it is lighter. No need to add the dead weight on it.
There some valid point here. Why not use Kona? They have both ICE and EV versions, it’s a much more realistic Australian experience. EV’s are brilliant in the city, they lower the exhaust pollution, decrease Australia’s dependance on OS. However they are awful on the highway, especially if it’s a bit cold, or you have to travel outside the main arteries, range anxiety is a real problem, and YES I have an EV……But its for the city. We have a “touring” car for our holidays.
In New Zealand they've finally started road user charges for EVs since they don't contribute via fuel taxes. It's charged at $76NZ per 1000km (~70AUD per 1000km, or $47US per ~600 miles). Just makes EVs even more expensive to run than petrol/hybrid vehicles.
Future video request: EV v petrol challenge - Around town. You completely agreed with the comment that an EV is cheaper around town, but what about a view to document it? Ideally the use case would be what can be: - Affordable cars - Maybe Tesla Model Y RWD Vs. Santa Fe - Comparison is based on the experience of an EV Vs. 1 tank of E91 petrol - EV experience is based on someone who has bought because EV is advantageous to their situation (solar at home or charger at work) - Include a weekend day-trip 100-150km away (fully charged EV at home) - Maybe add in a hybrid RAV4 so that hybrid can be compared too The purpose of this video would be to cover another aspect of owning a hybrid/EV.
I think it was a fair and honest review and am surprised at some of the comments you received. People do trips just like this regularly, and normally with family in tow. It was also the strongest reason why Hybrids are the answer for Australian cars and families driving round town with the occasional country trip.
The way you drive an EV on a roadtrip is to take account of the Charge Curve. You drove past chargers in Euroa, Barnawatha North, Glenrowan all close to the highway to get to Tarcutta with 2%, yet didn't want to arrive in Sydney with 10%. If Tarcutta was down, then you would have been stuck - all done on a day when the entire network was down (which doesn't happen often).
Complainers will complain regardless. I thought charging stations weren't expensive so that shocked me. An electric car makes sense when you have multiple cars but it's simply not practical as a do everything car. An EV for city/suburb driving as the daily and a 4WD for the trips out with the family sounds like a good combo to me.
Imagine having to respond to these nitwits. Paul you have my respect. Personally I found the review fair and balanced. And an eye opener on how expensive public access charging is.
IMO (and it’s just my opinion). Interesting watch. But not sure why you are hung up on comments, calling your viewers idiots/stupid is, well.. idiotic. Don’t waste your time responding, it comes off similarly to the terrible comments. Focus on making better videos instead.
It was a great review, the ignorance and lack of awareness on both sides in the general public ICE vs EV knows no bounds! Well done for calling it out so gently.
The Optus outage was an extremely unusual occurrence and skewed the results of your test. Not your fault of course, but you shouldn't really be implying that this was a "real world scenario".
Great video Paul! I spent quite some time last night reading many of these comments and they were indeed amusing. Most missed the point of the exercise and used it as a platform to voice their strong views. I see both sides of it. For example my father, 70 year old and retired took delivery of one of the first EQCs in the country and does lengthy road trips regularly. He and Mum are happy to plan their trip thoroughly and 3-5 hours driving a day is enough for them. He does often comment on the number of chargers that are broken though. I myself have ordered a Volvo EX30 to replace our aging petrol powered Q3, which my wife drives locally (approx 8,000 -10,000km per year). However I cannot see myself in the near future replacing our main car, currently P400 Defender with a BEV (perhaps the new PHEV?), as unlike Dad, time is of the essence when covering long distances. What you've most likely proven is that an electric vehicle is great for thoes who rarely venture too far from home or as a second car(my situation), however at this point in time for many Aussies, having access to a ICE vehicle for road trips is not only more convenient nut economically viable. Loving your RU-vid videos. Keep up the great work!
I think Model Y and RAV4 comparison would be a more useful one as most people will buy cars in these segments and not those expensive BMWs!! Looking forward to the video 🎉
Yep, already did all the calculations and research 2yrs ago and why i have a diesel for long trips and EV for a runabout around Sydney. Fortunate enough to have this set up but can't be said for everyone elses circumstances.
I personally agree with your intentions of making this comparison, and I respect the result of the test. A lot of comments misunderstood the conclusion led by the result. This particular comparison is able to tell if the benefit of an EV is greater than a petrol car or not. The result only proves that the BMW i7 is not as ideal for long-distance trips as its petrol cousin, the 740i. If the 740d is continually imported to Australia, the result would be even more margin away from the i7 since the diesel engine is the best option for long-distance trips. Paul's team picked these two cars for comparison for fairness, but the result is also less helpful for most ordinary Australians as these two cars are in small volume. As stated at the end of the video, the team may not have to stick to the fairness of comparing two cars since if buyers are comparing a Toyota RAV4 and a Tesla Model Y, putting them into the testing system would be fair enough. Therefore, I'm looking forward to having the RAV4 and Model Y compared in your future video. Cars from Mazda, Hyundai and Volkswagen should also be included in this series of comparisons.
Great comparison video on the BMW's. I fully understood what the comparison was for. We are all interested to know who is cheaper over highway distances. Thank you for the comparison, and sorry about the comments you received from so many people.
It was a fantastic test and review, I think! Well done stuff haha. And personally, it made me believe that EVs are indeed more viable for road trips than I expected. The actual difference in charging (especially if you do charge overnight at your destination - and yes, that's not a given) wasn't as big as I expected for a near all-day trip. People would have you believe that EVs can't do road trips at all without some horrible compromises. There are definitely major downsides, but it's certainly doable.
The way the review was shown on the "news" was in a bit of a negative light towards EV vehicles, and so the extremes from both ends of the EV spectrum came out of the woodwork to voice their opinions. There really is no better way to review fuel vs EV than to have a car that is made in both versions, it really highlights the differences of each type.
Would love to see a future comparison on tuned vehicles. With tuning diesel vehicles mainly dual cabs being so popular now. Next time you have a trailer dyno would be interested to see how a tuned 4cyl would go against a stock 4cyl, tuned 4cyl vs a stock V6 and tuned V6 vs stock V6 when towing, performance driving and off-road. So people can factor in a possible tune when considering their purchase.
I would like to see a real world test on EV, the ones someone that can't afford to spend $60,000 plus that don't have an opportunity to charge at home especially if you live in a complex of units. I see most EV evangelists are well off and not struggling like the rest of us. Be ral guys if you can afford it OK but don't push it on the ones that can't.
At the end of the day, you would have known the result before you did it, that petrol 740i had exceptional fuel ecomomy on the open road the EV not great. Would be interesting and a lot more relevant to see the most popular EV the Model Y compared to the most popular Petrol SUV say the RAV 4 or Mitsubishi Outlander. Given that you don't like to do any forward planning of your stops to ensure you don't charge to 100%, the Model Y will plan the stops for you and tell you how long to charge. It would be interesting if this functionality removed some of the charging anxiety for you or whether it remains. An EV is not the suitable car for these types of trips but the Model Y should do it significantly better and might be ok for people who do these types of trips infrequently and can then balance it off against the convenience of home charging and urban driving.
Always enjoy your reviews and comparisons, isn’t it funny how people now days cannot listen to other people opinions/views without getting worked up if the outcome doesn’t suit their own.
Hi Paul, totally agree with you. I live in New Zealand and government just introduced Road User Charges to all electronic vehicles here in Kiwiland. Like you said electricity is getting more and more expensive everyday as we speak and patrol up and down at this stage. Can’t see any long term advantages out of electric cars to be honest. Not to mention the reselling price of electric cars, probably all going to end up in an e-waste yard.
It was one of the better comparisons, the cars were as equal as you could get and your summation at the end is 100% correct. It’s horses for courses and you make the decision based on how you plan to use the vehicle.
The only criticism I had was that unless I missed it the EV charged at the end of the trip while the ICE didn’t so it wasn’t a fair comparison but I totally agree that public fast charging is expensive
Great follow up guys.... So a 740i $272,000 .... 7i $306,000 .... That's about $34,000 difference. That would buy 17,000 L of fuel ( @$2/L ) which would drive the 740 for about 212,000 kms @ 8L/100 .... Mmmmm
One would be crazy to spend this enormous amount of money on an EV .70k before the vehicle is emission neutral. Keep the vehicle 5-7 years and see what your resale value is bugger all I would suggest. Who wants to go on long trip with a calculator, hoping you will get to the next charging station, hoping it is operational and not heaps people waiting. The U.S. has had EV s longer 65% of owners would never buy another EV.
can you call yourself a true RU-vid commentor if you actually watch the content? Worst thing is, every anti EV person i know IRL, has tagged me in the original test, telling me, it proves just how much i was lying telling them an EV is cheaper to own.... and they refuse to hear that i charge at home, from solar 90% of the time..
The ICE is the king and EV lovers just can't handle it . And on the point of adding weight to the ICE to equal the weight of the tubby EV is missing the point . Why should the ICE be penalised for not being ridiculously overweight. Great review Paul.👍
People will always get offended, no matter if they're pro-EV or anti-EV. I would like to see a return test that people in regional cities/towns might do (e.g. Charge up at home and fuel the car up before leaving, drive 200km into the city, drive about 50km around the city and then drive back home), I think that would provide a very realistic road trip. Maybe you could do that with a Tesla Model 3 Long Range and the most efficient BMW 3 Series. I think though that even if you did this, proving EV's are cheaper in this scenario or proving ICE's are cheaper in this scenario, somebody will complain and make up some sort of rubbish. Good job anyways with this video.
You definitely are NOT right about the charge up to 100%, as a general rule. About this specific trip, I can't say, as maybe in that route is not enough fast chargers available, but it definitely better to make more stops, but shorter, so there is no problem with range anxiety neither charge beyond 80%, except is an intentional long stop (like a meal). Maybe you don't have that option in that route. I don't know about that. If the problem is the lack of chargers to make use of this configuration, well, that's something that fortunately will be better and better overtime. The more EV on roads, the more charge stations available. Things are changing very fast.
Just watched the video regarding the comments people made. Very interesting. I live in Canada and own a model Y like yours. About a year ago I took a trip of approximately 1500km. When I arrived home I totalled all the charging expenses and then did a calculation for a Kia Seltos using only the listed highway consumption. The difference was significant in favour of the model Y. Not to refute your findings but I believe electricity expenses in Australia are much higher and the BMW is not as efficient as the model Y. I bring this up because I don’t believe the BMWs were the best choice to illustrate cost comparisons between ice and BEV. You did however explain in your video how the choice came about. While I accept that, I’m not sure the results paint a realistic picture of the savings that could be achieved. Hopefully, with the installation of massive battery storage and renewable energy technologies electricity prices will drop.
People are not getting it, we drive 200-800km and quite often 1000 km in Australia EV’s in Australia do not work for country driving. Ford, GM, Toyota, Mazda, VW are at best selling 4-8% of total sales on EV. They have excess stock of EV’s, they are not selling and people don’t want these. They want hybrid, petrol and diesel instead
We are a one car family and it's an EV. It's the perfect car for us. We recharge 95% at home. So the 400km roadtrip every few months is just a little more expensive than if we had an ice car. Much better than paying for an additional rego, insurance and maintenance on another car.
The point about not considering free hotel charging didn't make much sense. I dont know what its like in Aus, but in Canada many hotels DO offer free charging; why wouldn't you just pick one that offers that? The counterargument was that in the future hotels wouldn't offer this. Are you doing the test now or in the future? Also, the point about hotels not giving away free petrol inadvertently makes the case for EVs. That electricity is relatively cheap and easy to deliver enables hotels, malls, etc to offer it for free. You can't do that w/ petrol since it's too expensive and impossible to deliver except via petrol stations. Then he says he didn't want to use any free charging because the point was to only use the public charging network. I thought the point was to get sense of a real world road trip. A real world road trip would use a local free charger if it was near the hotel/home
I've made the calculations for Germany and the UK, EV is more expensive than an efficient petrol car. I would repeat something that I've said for years, the EV tech is nowhere near where it needs to be. Fossil fuels are not the future, but neither are today's battery EVs. Replacing one bad choice with a different bad choice makes sense only for certain manufacturers and their partners.
The mere fact that trhe people of the fuel industry, and the legacy car industry is so upset about EVs, is proof for itself that EVs are an absolute success!
As someone who likes a driving Holiday my biggest issue with EV's in Australia is if you see a sign to something you think looks interesting along your journey it makes it very hard to make that detour to see it with jeopardizing making it to your next recharge as A LOT if not most small towns do not have charging stations but the nearly all have a servo to get fuel, so you are very much stuck on your planned route and you are limited as to where the recharge stations are as to which way you plan your route
So many swearing off an EV forever on the basis of your test. The test was a fair snapshot of what it's like to drive an EV long distance *right now*. Petrol at its best; 100 years of infrastructure, development, subsidies. EV still starting out; insufficient infrastructure, battery tech still heavy, charging slow making long journeys difficult. What will it be like in 10 years? 20 years? If you're still around I want to see those videos!
