Healer tierlist: 1. Holy paladin 2. holy paladin 3. Holy paladin 4. Holy paladin But the answer is just keep on nerfing holy pala right blizzard 🤷♂️? dont buff the other healers at all wink wink
Healer POV ; Rogues are best melee in M+ due to their survivals. You did not mention Cheat Death on your video but its also considered "jail break" card for Rogues. Plus they can stop taking damage on demand both pyshcial and magic which provides room for healing. They have also Feint which is nice where AoE damage pressure is high but also sacrificing their dps due to energy spend on Feint.
I'd say Fury warrior is probably the easiest melee spec. Your main rotation is 5 or so buttons for single target and for aoe its the exact same but every 4 attacks you hit whirlwind. Throw down some dps cooldowns when they're up and you're golden. I recommend it for any beginner who is able to keep up with the button spam.
@@pr3287 I agree. Ive mained every Melee spec in HC progression and I would say Frost DK and Outlaw are the easiest to play, also easiest to keep rotations while multitasking. Fury might keep you watching cds and buttons too much, still easier than Arms since execute and MS play off each other now for stacking dmg when all you want to do is use overpower. -Subtlety in its current trashy ass form has a high ceiling imo due to staying on top of double shadowdance windows and double vanish popping for shorter cds while maximizing CCs. Ppl who say its easy dont even gouge and blind.
@@michaelsantos4161 but a better toolkit who help you stay alive or in fight easier :) So yeah no fury still harder than a rogue cause of short range and not any invulnerability. You have to take choice stay or not , being at 1step too far and you cant charge back , 1 step too far cant hit anymore , 1 too close you're dead . They both have a high apm , but one is easier thank to his toolkit and "mid range " skills
Finally someone that doesn't just braindead say "havoc easy" or "bad class". The difference you see from bad to good DH players is insane. Yes it's easy to pick up and play at a low level, and that's good. However, realizing your debuff and CD-management, while also having to manage your tight ressource to keep enough for burst windows while not waiting too much during rotation as well as literally pressing tons of buttons constantly to optimize output, the skill ceiling is really high. When you add CC to that it becomes another challenge in and of itself. Very sad to see how such a cool class which is so nice after the rework getting the hate it truly doesn't deserve.
Playing a Havoc on high keys this patch has been a constant walk on a mine field. The tight burst windows really fulfil the niche of the agility class though :)
From the experience needed to pull your energy right and maintain poisons and do aoe right as assassination, to the outrageous APM as Outlaw and stuff to keep track of all-the-time, to the mind-blowing number of spells and buttons needed to be pressed in the correct order all the time in the openers of subtetly, rogue is anything but moderate. As a Rogue main, I consider it one of the, if note THE hardest class to play, especially in mythic+, where on top of all I said, Rogues are expected to use all of their CCs, which are a lot.
Don't agree with Outlaw. The rotation is conceptionally easy; but the sheer pace and number of things to track while also managing everything else can quickly overwhelm you. It also seriously punishes mistakes, where you can quickly find yourself gassed on energy and having to spam sinister strike while doing less damage than the tank. Learning it for me was a constant battle of either hitting the wrong ability because the rotation is heavily reactive and fast paced thereby cratering my damage, or simply not being able to keep up and losing GCDs. To me DH and Unholy DK are considerably easier... and putting it and Fury in the same tier is just plain f'in goofy.
I play all rogue specs and Outlaw is by far the hardest one in m+. it's ridiculous putting outlaw in moderate dps since the rotation is so hard to execute properly in high-pressure environment that require a lot of ccs. Not to mention how hard it's to CC properly in huge aoe packs, when your dmg is so reliant on hitting your target with Between the Eyes.
Yeah agreed, I mainly play Assa or Sub now cause I don't like the proc heavy gameplay of outlaw but it's always been the harder of the 3. Assassination is only hard if pulls last too long to go over the rupture spam again and knowing when to CT spam over Envenom. Sub rogue is mostly either full on blast with SS + BP or funnel with SS + evis. The CC and utility "expectations" aren't as important anymore in these past seasons because most of the time AOE cc's are just better. Outlaw is just just by far way more difficult, from reliance on proper target selection, RTB fishing, knowing when to dance and to ignore HO and FTH procs etc. Gotta say this video did kind of miss the mark
I think outlaw is great tho. Its ”hard” but once you get it every other class seems hard 😂 you also need fast fingers. Even tho i mainly pvp with it but doing some m+ and raids here and there and am pretty much always atleast second if not first on the dps and interrupts. Only thing i find very difficult is staying alive while being out of certain cooldowns as the self healing is way too little. Healing potions are MANDATORY as rogue. Also some might find the fast phase of outlaw difficult but i think its what makes it so amazing spec, keeps you busy and concetrated. As for like my other chars frost dk and bm hunter sometimes makes me feel unconstrated because the rotation is boring and dont keep me busy at all.
stop talking cap. outlaws rotation is not hard. its really simple compared to some other specs. pressing BF, SS and using your procs is hard? come on. play enh or udk before you type such cap... for reference: ex outlaw main, playing +26 keys. tip i can give: stop overcomplicating the roll the bones buffs.
@@sinnis4993 i didnt say the rotation is hard. Outlaw is the harder of the 3 specs to play is what i said. unholy or enh are just as easy as it basically equates to press the light up button. You're probably one of those guys who also think arcane mage needs to have some high iq gameplay for its rotation too huh? dipshit
@@sinnis4993 roll the bones buffs are the easiest thing about the class lol, getting the max amount of damage from your rotation in a high-stress environment like high m+ is hard as outlaw. UDK is not a fucking m+ class so don't compare it. Enh is among the harder ones as well but its similar to outlaw.
Frost core rotation is very simple, but actually doing good damage is not so simple. Locking anybody in place for 12s can be a death sentence. Also, frost as of now is only oblit for m+, with no variety as breath is pretty dead.
Yea i was kind of disappointed with their ranking for FDK here. Oblit is the only viable build, and if youre pugging and running with groups that dont play around your pillar of frost window, it can be very hard to maximize damage. Yes, the burst window is quite literally "generate killing machine, spend killing machine," but the amount of setup and cooldown management necessary for that burst window, is far greater than a few buttons. Not to mention rune and runicpower management. I think someone getting into the game for the first time would be disappointed in their ability to play FDK without some general understanding of game play fundamentals
Id argue that a lot of the medium difficulty specs are easier to execute in practice than frost dk because they dont have such insane movement restrictions + they have much better mobility and thus lose much less uptime in certain situations. And also what you said about pillar, most other specs actually have okay dps outside of cds whereas frost is entirely reliant on dnd + pillar to deal any aoe damage.
I´m happy I found comments as yours. I hear all the smack people talk about FDK being "easy" and when you actually take it to M+, it´s not so easy. Mismanaging cooldowns is really punishing, you have to make executive decisions on the fly... the concept is simple, but to execute it properly, you need to know what you´re doing.
All you are describing is legit what a lot of others specs are struggling with as well, Frost is not special, and a ton of other people are saying that as well :) @@kyrriana1772
Yeah, I've played a lot of melee specs in m+ this season and I've found FDk one of the most difficult to master. There are a lot more variables to FDk than meets the eye, definitely harder imo than enh or even unholy in certain situations.
whoever did the script on this was in a rush and you can tell, we had a list show the same thing twice, then had some HUGE bad word placements, give your folks some sleep skill capped
putting all 3 rogue specs in moderate is silly. If not just because of the sheer number of keybinds you need but also because its mechanically complicated and requires a lot of game knowledge to know when to not only use the correct defensive option but also what abilties and mobs to be CCing. And rotationally outside of outlaw very subtle mistakes can cost a lot of damage
@@12Beastn Ele shaman hard to play xD....it literally is one of the easiest range specs in the game, only third to Destrolocks and Boomkins. Yes, even BM and Frostmage are more challenging.
Hopefully videos like this one help with community perception about havoc. I still hear lots of people call it a 2 button spec. Seems they live in the past lol
Two-Button spec has been a meme, even before the rework, thats just trolling. However, the current Havoc iteration still isnt even remotely as challenging as rogue, ww monk, feral, warriors or both dk specs. Sorry to break it to you, but its still a prime beginner spec, together with ret pal. For one, because its insanely overtuned and therefore provides a floor dps comparable to most other classes close to hitting their ceiling. Youre still gonna get 70+% out of your maximum throughput if youre completely ignoring the burst sequencing. You have less threat issues due to your abundance of cc and mobility and youre exceptionally strong at sustaining through medium fail damage and heavy rot damage with zero oppurtunity cost.
@@polkhigh_33 Hope this is a troll comment. Otherwise if you think havoc is easier to play than the two warrior specs cant take it serious. Also havoc defensives are not nearly as good as classes like mages, evoker, etc in high end content. Your comment just shows you dont do any difficult content and see havocs in +5 keys topping overall.
@@polkhigh_33 You are always entintled to an opinion, however wrong it may be so have at it. If you wanna prove you are not just a casual player that doesnt understand the game link a high rio character. If no character is linked discussion is over.
@icswack6015 Dropping the io bomb, really? 😅 Well whatever pleases you. YT doesnt allow hyperlinks, just look for Paï-Thrall. See, I didnt use the word 'challenging' for no reason. Yes, flawless Havoc gameplay post rework is much more complex and rewarding than pre-rework. But if we're talking about easy or hard specs to start your career as an m+ melee havoc is still on the easy side of things, because of the reasons I mentioned. Havoc is just so well-rounded, overtuned and forgiving that beginners will do great with it from the start, while heavy maintenance or apm specs will most of the time overburden beginners.
SV's lack of survivability/CD's doesn't make them hard to play, since there's no play to do besides calling for externals which is just poor design if you ask me. I haven't played SV in DF, but unless it changed a lot since SL I would consider them really easy to play compared to a rogue for example. The hard part of DH is the momentum build in dungeons filled with stuff to dodge which is a pain. If you remove the momentum it goes back to be quite easy. Fury is indeed easy but you need to be playing insanely aggressive to be competitive which is something not all players are able to do. Personally I play a lot of sub rogue which I find fairly easy, but having to use your entire control kit can be a rough task while still optimizing your bursts within dances. Outlaw is the real pain for me. Being punished a lot by target swapping requires a lot of extra macros for control which I personally don't enjoy. That's just my experience, but I think it comes down to the player.
@@coryp6868 You can take it, it's about 0.5%-0.7% dps loss in dungeon slice for my fury which is going down from 185-190k sim by like 1k-1.5k if i down take it. And you get AoE stun + 5% more stamina for that tiny dps loss. So thing is 1min cd roar (with talent you take instead of stun) does not align with 1.5min cd avatar that increases it's damage meaning you have more roars but less burst damage every 1.5min cuz you don't always have roar for avatar windows.
Love my monk but it's spoiled me from other dps specs. At least the couple alts I've been gearing feel too restrictive in their rotations. I've been looking for a new class to try with prettier tier sets so I can stop wearing the same mog since WoD... So far, balance druid is not my jam. Devoker is starting to make sense. Hubs said elemental shaman plays sort of like windwalker monk but mine is still back at whatever level cata is now. Might have to try feral next.
I played every melee in this patch, at least doing plus 10, and I found feral the hardest to play. Sure its easier in AOE than ever, but you have to manage every single proc and cp in your incarnation window, and its random sometimes. The saving grace its predator talent, as always.
i maim ret for many years, and i think ret paladin between good(harder) and normal(easy dealing damage), its depends on u can truely support your team or not. which mean will u off heal, BOP, blessing of freedown, slow, and Or sometime taunt when your tank or healer is dead
sir, this is a video about skill floor (minimum requirement to perform well). everything you said is about skill ceiling (squeezing everything out of your spec).
@@Wellshem Frost is just as demanding in the apm department, requries a lot more resource management and positioning and doesnt have baked in self-sustain and cleave, it all comes at a noticable oppurtunity cost. Not even mentioning the fact that frost is more prone to cause threat issues due to those insanely hard hitting oblit cleaves, which require you to target swap vigorously in big pulls.
Something I keep wanting is a list of the easiest minimum competence classes. Like I'm very bad at melee dps (I'm a healer!) but I can almost not embarrass myself on DH but can't even on rogue. I made a pally after seeing this lol. I know it's hard, because every class has limitations and so does every player (I'm so used to click casting as a healer I struggle to juggle keybinds). I really want something with like 4 keys lol
Ret pally is the way to go. Outside of CDs-buttons (once every 1 min) and utility, the rotation is 2 different builders (with one ekstra if it procs), then you choose if you spend it on a ST or AoE.
I wonder how anything can be easier than fury warrior - when I played the class in S1 I just felt like it was just something anyone could play. But I am no expert and havent played warrior since S1
Outlaw rogue is way harder than it looks, it should be in advanced. It is so advanced that you cannot play without WAs because of buff tracking and decision making, especially for the next coming patch 10.2
outlaw is by all means not difficult. 2 WAs is all you need to play this spec. rotation is not complex and many people overstrategize roll the bones. it doesnt change your rotation, it gives you a neat buff.
@@sinnis4993 It's definitely more difficult than the other specs in moderately difficult. Especially with keep it rolling. You also have more stuff to keep track off than most other melees.
@@alexis1156 you need to trask SnD, your rolls (which is 1 WA) and thats it. every double SS hit is a pistol shot proc. no need to track that. so...where are we again? outlaw is as complex as obliterate frost dk...
@@alexis1156 Sinfulsis - Antonidas s4 shadowlands. nothing more to say. dont overcomplicate outlaw. your rotation doesnt change at all. you dont need to track half of the buffs you can roll...only 3 are viable, the rest is shit. the rotation is even easier than the fury warrior rotation...i am sorry, but how is outlaw complicated by any means?
Fury warrior is SO easy :) Must be one of the easiest specs in the game + its one of the top dps even if its so freaking easy Ret pala are also very very easy --- These two are not exactly dps but still melee. Druid and pala tanks are also incredibly easy, especially druid tank
If you’re watching this months later, I just want to make an addendum to warrior. Both fury and arms have builds where shockwave is accessible now, so you can sacrifice that optional talent for 3 CCs, or just have shockwave and stormbolt, and be pretty reliable in knocking on those grey cast bars.
Skillfloors is not what you should be looking at here that is like looking at the bare minimum and doing so just smashing random key buttons all melee dps specs are within 20% of each other according to the Simulationcraft guys so yeah you are literally looking at the wrong thing. At 9:52 fury is only 10more apm then the other specs you are talking about on this list stop being outlaw is doing more APM then Fury also sub is close and Havoc demonhunter has the same amount as Fury. You are also NOT looking at skillfloors for every spec you are talking about meaning this video is WORTHLESS when you start it of talking about using skillfloors then not actually using that metric for all specs As you are jumping from Skillfloor to skillceling depends on the spec you are talking about. This video is not even talking about what is setup in the start of the video it is supposed to talk about. Using your own criteria you have listed here at the start you would not pick some specs for those places. I hoped Skillcapped for M+ would have learned you have been around the wow scene for something like 10years if not more and yet you do not even follow your own criteras you have picked.
I hate these tier lists that conflate spamminess with difficulty. Fury is literally 3 buttons. You just press them really fast. Same with havoc although i'd understand putting havoc a lil higher simply because of the fact that its so different from any other class
This was kind of funny to watch. I main a enhance 2800 io and I feel like he is my easiest tune to play but maybe that is because I enjoy feeling like I can cover 90 percent of interrupts/cc
I mean that's dope but not a lot of people share that opinion lol enhance has been one of the most complex specs for a while now. I like fast melee so it's one of my favs but the majority of people say the opposite
@@rezzyn94 yea I mean I guess, I do think this is coming from playing at a average level perspective as well. When you hit higher ceilings other class with a higher gpm are going to be harder to maximize potential
Hi guys ive been playing moba for many years and now wanna play wow, could you suggest me some really dynamic and fast gameplay class (not rogue hate this class-fantasy)? looking for monk rn as dps and protpala or bdk for tanking
Its not even remotely harder honestly, it just changes your resource management and puts more duty on your tank to chain pull. And well, even if your whole group plays into your sustained profile, it will still perform worse than Obliterate in an M+ setting, thats why its not played in m+.
Pls tell me I didn’t just hear this man say it’s hard to stay alive as a rogue 😂 with cloak, evasion, vial, feint + healing pots it’s really not that hard, not to mention shadowstep, vanish and grappling hook for outlaw for a quick escape from a sticky situation, you should always have at least something off cooldown to help you stay on your feet
There’s one OP comp rn and they’ve been getting nerfed for the last 3 weeks. Guardian Druid, Holy Paladin, Fire Mage, Shadow Priest and Augmentation Evoker
I hate what they have done to enhance, it’s so button bloated just for simple rotation yet so squishy even though it’s a mail class. Also outlaw is a lot easier then assassination and sub.
I feel like you haven't played havoc in dragonflight. Momentum by itself brings havoc up a few tiers, and it has way more buttons now than it did in BFA/SL. Fury warrior is way easier than havoc at this point
literally have 10+ buttons for the normal rotation. this is excluding any CC and defensives and ignoring buff/ debuff tracking and ressource management.
Let me preface this by saying I'm not saying you're wrong about enhance (or any other spec in the video) but I find you can just go fire nova build and be just fine in AoE. Yes it does less damage to the enemies but it also does less damage to your brain.
New-ish wow player here, i picked up a havoc demonhunter bc i really like illidan and the whole idea of the edgy elvers, but now at m0 and m+ i noticed that i need nigh flawless execution of my class to perform ,,well" i wondered if it really was just me being a idiot or if the class is just oddly hard and this proves it is hard. so i will switch to something easier so i can have less of a hard time playing wow
Well they are all hard cause the meta is ranged dps specs only. 😂 I kind of disagree. Warrior is the easiest melee to play. Your CD's are low and short duration/instant (so less susceptible to mechanics making you move) and easily stacked. Their utility is lacking so they don't have to do much maintenance CC and interrupts. It's as easy as it comes. Frost DK has to plan their aoe around Death and decay to be able to cleave and do good DPS. The Ret rotation is more complex and has a lot of utility to juggle at the same time. So, yeah i think you are being generous to warrior here.
ret pala is most braindead rotation and class ever, 0 APM, rotation is simple as fck and you can just use hekili and get 95+ parses in raid or deal good in m+
I play warrior, fury as a preference, and I have to agree. Maintain enrage, good CD management, quite tanky (pain and gain, BT, enrage regen, d stance along with spell reflect (short CD)) makes one of the easier specs to pick up imo. Maintaining melee up time and the Dps loss when having to move off the target is a pain point but you can’t have everything (unless you’re a mage 🤣). Picking up shockwave gives a nice aoe stop as well. I’d say it’s one of the easier classes to understand and play reasonably well, but like most things, it’s hard to master (maintain up time, charge weaving without missing autos, taunt reflecting (DbtS only being arms 🙄) etc).
@@murderation2920 You can say that of any spec. Just boot hekili and it's brain dead. 🤷 The thing is pala brings utility and it needs to use it too. That requires knowledge of mobs and encounters + has to do affixes too, such as afflicted and entangle.
@@NemXX2 no im cant say that to any spec, hekili sucks with shaman, mages etc. All pala have to do - manage utilites, but any class in game that have utilities have to manage it when its 25+ keys, or it is deplete. And tbh use cleance on afflicted or freedom on entagle is not thad hard, it is one of the easy thing in wow and require nothing
@@murderation2920 No, it doesn't. You just need to let your maelstrom build up to 9 or 10 rather than what it tells you. Most specs work pretty well though. I don't play mage so i don't know about it.Warrior has one interrupt, one stun and one stamina shout. No, it doesn't have a lot to manage. Stop being silly. Warrior is way more beginner friendly.
I always love the comments of DH is easy, 3 button rotation, etc. The opener alone is a 9 button sequence with tight windows on buffs and positional requirements on movement to not die and not lose too much dps/resource generation.
The sad part is even the easy classes feel way to bloated if you want to get mechanics and postioning right as a new player , since you have enought to do to do a good rotation . Also even with the easy classes you need addons to play the game at a high lvl .
@@sviraci Because although most of what is said is fairly true there is a bunch of stuff and opinions that are objectively wrong such as putting resto druid in medium instead of hard and putting frost dk in easy instead of hard. They are focusing too much on the very base of each spec while still talking about stuff that you would know or do with more knowledge. These rankings would be fine if you'd do normal leveling dungeons but would be a nightmare in higher end content.
LOL frost as beginner friendly - and unholy as advanced? Sorry but as DK main - i think you guys have no clue about those specs. As frost u need to play around 10 secs d&d windows for dmg, if you get any mechanic, need to run away get cc'ed, anything - youll do no dmg for next 40 secs. Its extremly pushining spec where any mistake in exceution of pillar window has huge impact on dmg. Its ez spec to do low dmg on - its super hard spec to do very good dps with. Also - all frost attacks are short melee. Unholy u can do good dmg from mid range, interrupts and mechanics are much more punishing in raid - in m+ not so much. I'd agrue if you just use base disease build and just spam epidemic - youll outdmg average frost dk everytime in m+ environment. This is the other way around. Unholy is much easier to play in m+, frost is just way outdated and feels terrible to play - doing high dmg as frost takes very advanced player. Unless you only were asking bicepspump and vnt - try checking some actual numbers of new to the specs players. Doing lots of keys every week and you usuall DK in 12-18 keys - unholy will do much better than frost.
You're 100% right in all of this. I'm an Enhance main and I'll say 100% that frost is exceptionally difficult to play if you want to play it optimally. People who think it's easy just because it doesn't have a ton of buttons to press have no clue.
Idk why comments here are so scary, like people playing 20 or even lower keys for whole life and playing one class. Yes dude u have admit that your braindead ret pala is most braindead spec in game, it is 0 apm, clear rotation that u can do with hekili without problem and parse 95 logs or just be good dealing damage in m+, all you need not to press wings when there is 2 mobs with 10%, thats all, and u are unkillable plate melee with bubble, all you left as holy pala to be good player - to manage your utility, kick, stuns, defensive etc, and mostly everyone must to do that, but beside that, other specs have more problems with dealing damage or surviviablity. Ench shama can be plased between hard and advanced, like said in video, lack of surviv, a lot of buttons, utilities, interrupts that should be managed properly in 25+ keys. Unholy just dead for m+ dont play it Surv and dh sit in their place, but TBH i dont know how dh plays in season2, but in s1 only viable build was with momentum, where u need constansly press your huge dash every 10 second to have buff uptime, and this is hella hard in some situations. surv is just worst melee u can play(like as hunter class xd) Furry and its apm problem feel really bad, and only one time in live i have hand pain(even taking moments when im playing for 48+ hours) its when i play fury.
Irony that you mention Hekili and then you do not know it was made for Enhancement shaman. Enhance have LOWER apm number then Ret right now. And more over they are supposed to look at skill floor not skillceling so your enhance example goes out the window.
@@havtor007 dude i know that hekili was made for encha and i know the person that made it, but hekili rn is unusable for shaman rn. If u compare at least damage charts in details between hekili run and top shamans, u see the difference between frost shock usage etc. There is no place where paladin have more apn than anyone else. You can alt-tab between skills as paladin or play games at second monitor, but why im telling u that, if u think that fury warrior is just more 10 apm higher XDDDDDD There is no skill floor in wow, this game is not that hard, if you played at least 24 hours as your spec, you cap your skill floor, IDK why u even mention skill floor
@@murderation2920 So you just do not get what the skillfloor is ok glad that is cleared up. APM based on simulationcraft ret paladin 60 so 1 action per second. APM for Enhance 58. So you are just wrong. I see i was wrong with fury it is not 10 it is 15 at 75 same as havoc demon hunter. Outlaw is the highest APM dps spec with 81. And shares the top spot in APM with Prot paladin. Why i mention skill floor this very video is literally supposed to use the skill floor as a major metric it works on. How in hell did you not know this? This video IS NOT ABOUT how hard a spec is on the most difficult it is about the SKILL FLOOR of each spec. So why are you talking about something that has nothing to do with what the video is about?
@@murderation2920 dude using some auto rotation bullshit and talking which classes are easy to play LMFAO
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If you are putting frost dk in beginner specs you never played it. Yes it is easy to understand (even then there is much easier) and has tankiness but if you want to get somewhere as a beginner frost is probably the worst spec to chose because ontop of a very difficult management you will also depend on orhers--' the opinion on frost alone is enough for me not to watch the rest of the video
UH dk sucks so bad, a million buttons 2 different dots you have to burst and flair up and pets and pet skills that change when they are buffed and you heal takes your runic power that you need to build up and need for damage and your big heal is 2 minutes and has a 30% absorb screwing you if you hit it before your other heals, and sac pet gets rid of your damage and to do damage has to be close to the target and you can be silenced not allowing you to use it. Frost sucks ass in PvP but is ok in PVE but only every 2 minutes and only AOE, both Uh and Frost you have to choose single target or AOE because 1 or the other will be very bad. My AOE with the trinkets I have is BEASTMODE but sucks single target so when we fight bosses its bad. and having to be so close to targets unlike most other melee have 3-7 yard distance on the melee skills, but frost DK you will be standing close and getting hit hard a lot.
Survival should be a tank spec about kiting through traps and using your pet to soak damage for you then heal it with mend pet. Also it should be able to DW.
Idk man, yeah this is 10 months old, but even back then that ranking was questionable to say the least. Like putting Havoc in the hard tier is pretty wild honestly. Yes, the rotation is really complex if youre min-maxing. However, the class is so god damn overtuned that youre easily gonna dish out the throughput of other non-ret-melees by not aligning your burst cds at all. Havoc being squishy is a flatout lie. Yes, its more prone to receiving one-shots as a leather class, but these arent supposed to happen unless youre pushing in the top 1% range. What matters for your average top 10% player is sustain, and Havocs passive self-healing is unparalleled, these fuckers can sustain themselves at 15 tyra HoI bosses with zero oppurtunity cost. Finally, I partially disagree with the 'more utility = more responsibility' take. Having an abundance of crowd control makes the gameplay more interactive and therefore challenging, yes. However, having these cc's also contributes to the classes survivability and its ability to deal damage without bothering positioning. Frost DK on the other hand is greatly overrated in terms of its simplicity. Yes, its core rotation is basically a two-button-situation and the burst windows usually boil down to pillar every 60 second with runeweapon every third pillar and frostwyrm every 2nd pillar. However, Frost DK suffers extremely from melee downtime due to its dependancy on critical autos and staying in DaD. Maximizing your pillar window easily generates 50% variance between an average and a good Frost DK since just like with rogues, your baseline hits like a wet noodle. And while the self-sustain provided by death strike is very strong, Frost is heavily gcd-locked and a high apm spec (comparable to fury in that regard). It sacrifices a serious amount of damage and pillar uptime with each wasted global. Not saying Frost is hard by any means, but its definatly intermediate, a lot harder than yolo ret paladins, harder than fury warriors and windwalkers and less hard than cats and rogues.
fury requires the most speed on hotkeys if you lack that than your damage will be absolute garbage so i think fury is one of the hardest classes out there
Frost is one of the hardest melee imo. You have to execute your burst window perfectly in a small death and decay area or do 0 dmg and losing 1 or 2 globals in it severely gimps your damage. You are also massively punished for downtime out of range. So cd timing matters more than a lot of other dps. Bad/average frost dk’s do tank damage while top ones are one of the highest dps classes
UH Dk being Advanced is a joke lmao 😂 Dh is fairly easier than most melees as of now btw, by no means as difficult as ppl think And Survival is NOT harder than Arms or Windwalker rn, it's legit stupid easy.
These videos should never be taken seriously. They make vids for Fortnite, Val and CS and they're wrong about everything they say for those 3 games. It's no surprise they're lost on this game, too. They're clearly doing it for the money regardless if they steer people the wrong way
@Frawt wait , is your talent tree fixed to obliteration for Mythic Plus ? Or you just copy and paste a talent tree . In the video, he should mention the difference between obliteration and breath of sindragosa.
@@mohdhoven Yes, if youre doing m+ seriously, in the meaningful range, you DO copy paste talent trees, since the top players and theorycrafters didnt come up with those for no reason. Ask yourself, if youre trying to win a sprint, and you know youre not the fastest guy out there, would you further handicap yourself by cutting off your toes? Yes, thats exactly what youre doing with BoS. M+ is a challenging group content, and picking a build which performs 20+% worse even under optimal circumstances can and should be considered trolling. Besides, BoS isnt even noticably harder than Oblit. If anything, it puts additional duty on your group by playing around your sustained profile.
Sounds like you need better SV players. I almost never die on mine. Avoiding mechs and continuing to do damage is a breeze. Also ice trap and binding shot are in no way obscure. Might want to consult with more than just the very insular mythic raiding guilds. They often can't see past their own reflections.
You almost never die because healers like me know exactly what to expect whenever a sv hunter joins the pug group. As soon as tyra boss mechanics or fort mass pulls start getting painful (currently 13+) we're literally gonna babysit you, possibly even get additional externals like the ward trinket. See the guys from skillcapped are not talking about fail damage, thats obviously easy to avoid. Theyre talking about your ability to counteract sustained damage and your ability to keep your uptime high during that damage. SV sucks in both departments and requires the whole group to make it work in high m+, without contributing anything valuable to the group, neither in the utility department, nor in terms of its dps profile.
HAHAHA Demon Hunter is by far the easiest spec to play, Go play an Enhancement shaman and you will see the hardest to play correctly and that you have ranked appropriately... Also Warrior is far easier than Ret Pally. Theres no way Method and Echo helped with these rankings
@@alexis1156Yeah I actually don't allow havocs into my groups because the situational awareness needed to execute the momentum rotation and do the essence break combo correctly is not something I trust a pug to pull off without dashing to their death. Ret paladins fury warriors etc far more reliable. So id put havoc as hardest but they get no credit for their efforts since past expansions they were a 3 button rotation
I guess you're still stuck in BFA/sl where Havoc was the easiest spec in the game, DF made the spec really complex and is one of the hardest now. Way harder than Enhancement which difficulty is highly overrated
