SMALL CORRECTION - Avatar should have used 'Sweep' against Uthar, which ups his total damage including shooting to 4.6 (92%). Uthar still works out at the best per point (243% win) despite this though!
Hi Auspex. As per GW's rules commentary the strikes might be better, because first Uthar sets the damage to 1, then the +2 comes in after as it is a modifer, so strikes are damage 3! (ref rules commentary under 'modifiers/applying modifiers - damage gets set to X value of 1, then modifiers are added)
@@Birri919 as it is an addition it counts as a damage modifier and also is the case for half damage. So if a 6 is rolled into half damage it goes down to 3, then back up to 2. Its pretty clear in tbeir commentary
@@jamesread4616the designer commentary is talking about rules that modify the base damage. Things that say in words: "add 1 to the damage of all weapons" not the formula for determining the base damage itself. You determine the base damage for a weapon first by rolling and adding together any numbers listed in the damage section of the weapon and then after you are done with that, you follow the steps listed in the modifiers sections for any additional rules that apply changes to it.
for someone called the duelist and the most fearsome opponent in 1on1 combat among the primarchs, the lion sure gets his ass handed to him by almost anything in his size/points category
I swear the last time you did one of these the Avatar was getting slapped around like an unruly child. Khaine’s been busy getting swole since then it seems!
Very Happy that the Avatar is such a slegehammer now! However GW just murdered the swarmlord in 10th... just a limp, squishy overpriced noodle now... very lame
Khaine heard that character strength was going to be reduced in 10th edition and throttled the GW writer until he was allowed to keep his 9th edition profiles 😂
@@galling2052 lol I've yet to play them. Got two boxes and already had a 6K+ army list. My friend picked up my codex when it came out but hasn't dropped it. Been trying GSX in the meantime. Please tell me Genestealers are good!
Auspex left out the “Named And Unhelmeted Ultramarines Primaris Lieutenant™️” vs Avatar of Khaine, though to be fair that’s an extremely one-sided slaughter.
the avatar should definitely use his sweep melee profile against uthar. then it would be 3.3 wounds without the hit and wound reroll instead of 2.5 with strike profile
Good spot, I think I'd basically forgotten he had it by that point. Looks like it's 3.9W after those re-rolls, so 4.6W including the shooting. Will post a pinned correction above. Doesn't seem to change Uthar's status as 'best per point' though!
Petition to use colonel straken for these 1 on 1 fights instead of leontus. We all know the lord solar is gonna lose pretty much any 1 on 1 fight He's in but straken actually has a chance and is the closest thing to a combat beast the guard have
Given you included the Ctan, it would have been nice if you included either the Norn Emissary or Assimilator into this. Maybe next video you could do Emmisary vs everyone else given their purpose is to single out and kill characters in the lore?
Damn thats already pretty impressive - Also considering it was just the Avatar himself - no Strands of fate for triple exploding ranged hits, and no Psychic Buffs from Farseers (Reroll hits, and -1 to wound) This is how I usually build around the Avatar in my Army.
@Auspex Tactics Why always pick Be'lakor for daemons? There are better combat characters like Shalaxi or Bloodthirster/Skarbrand if you want to keep it more in the same points range. But those are actually dedicated melee combat monsters Be'lakor is more of a jack-of-all-trades type of character.
Always fun to see these brawls! I do think though that while fighting Uthar it may have made more sense for the Avatar to attack with the sweep instead of the Strike. If both attacks deal 1 damage, doubling your attacks while having basically a -1 to wound seems totally worth it. Both have enough AP to use his invuln as well. I may have missed something though with all the behind the scenes calculations!
No you're totally right there, just posted a pinned correction above. It's definitely the right move, but Uthar still wins per point by a big margin :)
I haven't played 40k in a good number of years, but I remember absolutely terrifying my friends with The Nightbringer. He's an absolute unit still which is nice to see.
The swarmlord comparison changes from 10 wounds on the nid to 8 wounds when the swarmlord model appears on screen. A few other spots where a 'slide update' causes other information to change (like at the beginning when listing non-leader named big hitters).
The maths ends up with some great results - Silent King being the absolute tankiest boy Morvenn Vahl dealing more damage than Primarchs and Greater Daemons Ghaz being truly bodied
It should be mentioned that monsters and vehicles can shoot pistol weapons with all other weaponry so our dear Morty should’ve shot The Lantern as well
i remember an Arena of Death that White Dwarf did for WFB back in 5th(?) edition, with all the most expensive special characters from each army book, plus a Bloodthirster, since they needed a round 16 combatants. IIRC, the final fight was the Bloodthirster vs Archon, and the Bloodthirster just ruined him through raw number of attacks, and that kinda reminds me of this series - the Avatar is able to take down most opponents through raw power rather than special rules or psychic powers. And I think that AoD was the origin of the saying "dice for the dice throne of Khorne", from the victory pic they had in WD.
Can you need shalaxi helbane to the rooster this time around. With +5 inv+6fnp, - 1 to hit, rerolls on hits, wounds, damage and soild psyhic and melee attack it's would act as a good benchmark since shb is top tier anti character
Anyway if you set him up well, it is an unstoppable force. Say you manage to Fortune him, anything 11 str or lower will only wound on 6s. Also SoF, for shooting the wailing doom is brutal, a 6 sof dice is between 2-4 melta to the face, and a single failed invul save on almost any enemy, means you can use a 6 sof on the damage roll for auto 8 dmg, which will kill most characters.
@@MalvadoManso Lol, that's fine. The alternative obviously is fishing for that 6 to hit 1st, and if you get lucky you've got a 6 on a damage roll. If you don't get lucky, use detachment reroll and get that fate dice on that hit roll.
I'm just loving the fact that the Aeldari and particularly the Avatar of Khaine are getting some proper respect on the tabletop. Now we just need to get that to translate over to the lore 🥲
Had a thought for the future of these videos, or as a fun side video. During the Battle of Iyanden, the Avatar of Khaine challenged the Hive Tyrant leading Hive Fleet Kraken (which may have been the Swarmlord but isn't confirmed) to single combat. Instead of responding to the challenge, the Tyrant famously summoned a dozen Carnifexes to dogpile the Avatar. I want to see the breakdown of the Avatar fighting a dozen Carnifexes.
@@DennisW91 I was thinking that when I watched the video. A squad of warsuits with MV would match him in point cost. His half damage taken is still brutal though
ye but also you have 6 Shoot Multimelter so on 3s 5-6 Hit with Rerolls and about 3 should Wound. If he has a Mirical Dice what he should have only 1 Mulit deals D so about 4-5 D (you will use your Mirical Dice for a 5 or a 4) and with Melta Keyword. Than you have the Rest of Shooting lets keep it simple the Avatar should get 1-2 more D. Than Meele you use Tankshock so 14 Dice(1 Suit has the Mace) so its should be 6 MW. So at this point the Avatar has 3-1 HP Lef and still all the Meele comes. So ye on Average and for a CP you kill the Avatar with this Troop. @@theblackantonio
Before any actual number-crunching, Straken is capped at 7W against the Avatar - even if everything hits and wounds and nothing is saved. More likely it's around 3-4 wounds inflicted in total, when accounting for the Avatar's 4++.
I would have been interested to see which of the challengers could kill the Avatar with perfect offensive luck (ie. all 6s to hit all 6s to wound Max damage rolls and the Avatar fails all saves) and who had no chance whatsoever. Also seems the points value of the challengers varies from the data-sheet to the per point comparison sometimes
Any character which has at least 14 attacks wins. And with perfect luck, that'll also trigger the 'on crit' abilities like Sustained Hits, right? I dunno that much about the latest edition, but... Well, the big question is 'does the halving round up, or down'. Trajann needs to use the '12 attacks' ability, unless you round up. Leontus can only do 10 wounds. Draigo wins if you round up, otherwise is stuck at 11. Or 13? Drazhar can only get 7-10 wounds. Uthar does 8 wounds. Farsight does 10-12 wounds.
Hello, I've been loving Death Guard this edition. The Aura from Mortarion also affects his characteristics, meaning his damage couldn't be halved by Khaine. I believe damage is a characteristic that cannot be affected as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. Lord of the Death Guard (Aura): While a friendly DEATH GUARD unit is within 6" of this model, that unit can ignore any or all modifiers to its characteristics and to any roll or test made for it (excluding modifiers to saving throws). Mortarion is awfully annoying in that regard. Makes many things feel bad about it.
Why Draigo lost his 3+ invulnerable save, is beyound me. The shield doesn't even impact his stat line now, no save re rolls, no improved toughness, no nothing. He's lost so much power in the last few editions.
@@hippiecheapskate He's always had the extra wounds from an update in 7th. I would rather he do the whole -1 from damage trick, that so many other characters are getting now. At least it would allow him to survive a bit longer. Which is better now, given that he has a FNP against mortals, but now devastating wounds screws that over as well.
Feels bad seeing the Lion doclose to nothing. He is a severely overcosted bully unit. He slaps anything weaker than him into dust, but as soon as you put him againts anything that has a decent invuln or damage cut/reduction he just falls apart. I really want to bring him, but for 90 pts more i get a full DW Knights brick that can do anything the lion does but better. And even when compared to other "big characters" like G-man or Morty, his support abilities are mediocre at best, and the dev wounds changes just put the nail in his coffin, anything that does a decent dumber of dev wounds can just oneshot him off the table.
Brilliant analysis. This is why my guard list brings 22 lascannons in a 2000 point list. Though i don't even know if that is enough to take down the Avatar. 🤣
Depends on if your opponent can get off the -1 to wound, otherwise they'll have to rely on -1 to hit, which means at the end you'll be looking at about 2.75 failed saves for Khaine, a favourable average is like 9 wounds from that.
@@UrbanmechAce Assuming you are playing on a bowling ball, assuming the Avatar is _somehow_ within half range of all of them, _assuming_ you have Take Aim! for all of the squads, 180 lasguns is indeed enough - 360 shots, 60 autowounds and 180 hits resulting in 30 more wounds, 90 total wounds saved on a 2+, 15 wounds inflicted - just barely enough. That's a lot of assumptions - a more realistic count is managing to have maybe 40 lasguns in that situation, which is 80 shots, 13 autowounds and 40 hits resulting in 7 more wounds; 20 wounds total, saved on a 2+, 3-4 wounds. Then the Avatar charges and mulches those squads.
I feel like, in this edition, any "Leader" characters should have gotten 1 box of their led unit to join them. Especially for like, Ghaz and Abbadon who both had their toughness tanked as well as losing their damage caps.
Back in the day in 3rd and 4th edition, I’d allow my Thousand Sons to be swarmed. All of my sorcerers had the Gift of Change spell. It was a two inch shooting spell that could be used even when locked in close combat and could pick your target. If you roll a d6 equal to or above the target’s toughness, w/ 6 always being successful, your opponents model was removed from the table and replaced with a chaos spawn that joins your squad! No saves at all. I took out so many big bads with that spell. Demon Princes, Old One Eye, the Nightbringer, etc.
I do love one omitted fact here, that both the Silent King and the Nightbringer will usually not be just healing 1 d3. Most necron players will be bringing a reanimator. Now little known fact monsters and vehicles and solo infantry in necron armies have an oppurtunity to heal 3 d3 per their turn. If set up right you can heal 1d3 from general reanimation protocols, 1 d3 from the reanimator, 1 d3 from a technomancer. Very annoying set up.
I feel like comparing the Avatar to the big centrepiece models of different armies but only comparing it to the Yncarne and not a Wraithknight is a bit odd. Would be kinda interesting to see how it maths out. -1 isn’t nearly as defensive as halving the damage but the Heavy Wraithcannon is still massive shooting, and the Ghostglaive hits pretty hard as well
Avatar always gets undercosted by a lot. Last edition it was 100pts less than a melee knight, and could easily best it in close combat. GW are so bad at Eldar rules writing. Got some crack smoking Eldar fanboy maniac just churning out the OP.
ghaz feels like he suffers for being a leader model, he's just not able to duel well this edition. i usually just bring a gorknaught in reserves if there's a want for a melee menace, bundle some meganobz and a mekboy in there and have fun.
Wait what. You do 2 space marine primarchs yet ignore all chaos daemons unique god lords? I would have liked to see how well nurgle survives the avatar and how well khorne punches it
Would have liked to have seen the norn emmisary considering how poor the swarmlord be doing these days. Got the feeling that between designating the avatar as the target and/or being on his objective might make him an issue for the space elves.
I just got one of these on Amazon for $70 because it was listed as "Used - Like New" and I wondered if someone had clipped some pieces then returned it. Nope, it's perfectly fine on the sprue. Anyway I have a small Eldar pile of shame to do, although it looks like the 3 melee weapons no longer have individual rules?
You're forgetting one key factor. The Avatar will always roll all the 5s and 6s against me and when I run it I'll get all 1-2's, so I actually don't win. :)
Yeah no 😂 like auspex said at the end, he doesn’t really buff anything. A LOT of the models here can give out enormous buffs and could get 1-2 turns of shooting before engaging.
I love these... Would be interested in seeing some other style videos like units that can kill the most durable units in one go. So units that can kill things like trancendant C'Tan with enhancement, aberrants, and deathwing knights. Love the videos
