Just one thing: The Black Legion is specifically NOT a successor of the Sons Of Horus, they are pretty much the exact opposite of that. They take members from any other legion as long as they bend the knee to Abaddon and disavow their old loyalties. I will never not love the Black Legion lore and can not wait for ADB to put out the next book. 😀
It'd be interesting to see the codices undo the popular oversimplification and bring in the Sons of Horus (or at least their remnants) as a separate subfaction in the codex!
They pretty much were decimated and hunted to near extinction during the Legion Wars in the Eye of Terror following the scouring. All the other legions blamed them for the failure of the siege an Horus and took it out on them. It’s covered off in the ADB Black Legion books in quite some detail, worth a read!
@@MrTumnus1987 I've read them (they're very good!), but there have been mention of surviving warbands like the True Sons and the Wolves of Horus that Abaddon hasn't gotten yet, which could be a nice alternative for those nostalgic for the old days.
As a player who recently began a Word Bearers CSM army (before the 9th edition book made them actually good) I'd love for a named character or two. Might have to settle for the new undivided daemon forgemaster thing they previewed. Fits a lot of the criteria and seems to be all about possessed and daemon engines.
As a Red Corsairs player, I really think there is ways to build a robust Hammer and Anvil strategy with the Armour of Badab, a brick of terminators of Slaanesh with the Black Rune and a few magic tricks Great video nonethless ^^
9e Alpha Legion definitely leans more towards the "messing with the enemy" plan than cultist focus- while they have ONE warlord that lets cultists punch slightly over their weight class, the loss of CORE on cultists means a lot of their stratagems don't work on cultists, like Scrambled Coordinates or Coils of Deception. Cultists also losing the legion trait hurts them badly. Nephilim also makes them suffer more than even other CSM legions, because not only do they want to take their powerful Traits and Relics, but they ALSO want to use Forward Operatives, which gives Chaos Space Marines a way to get up the board faster than any other legion. If the game does return to a more forgiving place for pre-game CP-intensive armies, I could see Alpha Legion becoming really scary.
I started an Alpha Legion army last year and would love to use them at some point, but from your comment, it seems it could be messy until an update, lol.
@@Gabriell1126 luckily updates are plentiful these days and if the data slate doesn't change things then its only another 3 months after that till nephelim rotates out.
They're not the worst, they're bad against anything leadership 8+. Which yes, is most of the game, but when you get them up against Tau, Orks, Guard, Genestealer Cults, or surprisingly Daemons, they're pretty scary.
@@josephskiles just ask your opponent if its okay to run one at the same points cost as an SM codex one. Fixes it every time. They're just as weirded out by that choice as you are.
As far as traitors go, I have to go with Iron Warriors. Not too many spikey bits and I absolutely love the Perturabo model. I feel like Iron Warriors Cataphractii termies could be super cool. I think it's a bit of a missed opportunity for GW that they don't have crazy advanced weapons and (GASP) AI constructs considering Perty was incredibly adept at making machines of war
CSM are good way of getting into 40K - Legions such as WB, WE, DG, TS, or BL, are a lot more fun, unique and divergent than the loyalist chapters are between themselves. Good times for getting into the hobby thanks to them right now IMO.
I don't think that Iron Warriors are weak. They turn off wound-rerolls, combined with already tough units, that makes lots of units very hard to kill and durable units score best and longest. I love the Slaanesh-Blackrune-Terminators as Iron Warriors, they are already strong and tough, in Iron Warriors they are nearly unkillable! I also run a lot of demon Engines (Decimator) and Demonkin, because they also benefit a lot of the defensive strategems. With a Iron Warriors Demonsmith I can make 2 Decimators hit on BS2+
I love plague marines in iron warriors , they are so tanky! Block of 10 full melee weapons, warptime it around, make it -2 damage with a strat and t6 with the malefic discipline or a prayer and let them slap people
How viable is a pure normal tank (I.e landraiders,predators,vindicator and like) for IW? I haven’t had the opportunity to play a game of 40k yet so I’m wondering if that’s viable or not
I'm running iron warrior demon engines. Its really fun. 2 lord discordants, 3 venom crawlers, 3 decimators, warpsmith, 2 master of possessions, troops. Everything is assult so gets turned on most of the game. Can get all 3 decimators hitting on 2s (warpsmith, stratagem, and wl trait, he just sits back and buffs/heals), with exploding 6s on hits is disgusting. Venomcrawlers wreck, getting exploding 6s to hit in melee and shooting most of the game is nuts. Shooting in melee is disgusting also, but needing to have them close to the mos to buff their casts but is a mixed bag if they do explode. Loving how my list got amazing synergies with the new codex.
@@loke801 Iron Warriors Landraider is scary tough with Tougness 9 and the -1 to wound stratagem. With the new better lascannons and beining able to protect an important (melee) unit, the Landraider is not bad at all and at least playable if you like it!
I chuckled a bit at the Alpha Legion "fermenting uprisings". I do like a good brew, dont get me wrong, but I think you mean fomenting, not fermenting. 😸
I can say Chaos Space Marines have never been a faction that could motivate me to buy a whole army, but I often felt that, if I would, Iron Warriors, or Thousand Sons, would be it. I LOVE psykers, wizards, and that whole theme, so Magnus and his Sorcerers would probably be it, but I've also often wished to see Iron Warriors. I know it wouldn't play well, due to the Allies system breaking rules for armies, to field other things, but a force of Traitor Guard, sporting Demolishers, Basilisks, and other siege vehicles, led by a Warsmith, his Terminators and Obliterators, and some other Marines, would seem neat. Extra points for including a Chaos Knight, or fallen Titan.
As a long term Imperium Player and shunner of the vile and foolish slaves of Chaos I have to confess to being seriously tempted by the upcoming Khorne models. The new berserkers look amazing. If the rest of the new models and codex are as good, I'd say some money will be sank...!!! Looking forward to the inevitable Auspex Tactics review!
Try the following for the Renegade Warbands and see how they suit you (Marks are Army wide): The Purge: Creations of Bile with Mark of Nurgle Brazen Beasts: Iron Warriors with Mark of Khorne Crimson Slaughter: Black Legion with Mark of Khorne The Scourged: Alpha Legion / Word Bearers with Mark of Tzeentch The Flawless Host: Emperors Children / Night Lords with Mark of Slannesh
I just started building my first army. I knew going in that the 8th legion wasn’t the strongest, but I tend to go by the rule of cool in these kinds of things
Please enlighten me esoteric one. I've just started this hobby and I'm building iron warriors, I'm just buying what models I think are cool atm but if they're strong in the game it's a bonus. I currently have the combat patrol, a box of termies and I'm getting a lord discordant + terminator lord this week.
I love the Night Lords because their armor has lightning bolts on them. That's 100% of the reason I decided to play them. It's an army that often makes me hate it, and I love that, because their Primarch hated them too. I have a lot of fun with them and love painting them and playing them very conservatively when they'll have trouble killing something and very aggressively when there's no chance for them to lose. Hard to play them like they're portrayed in Black Library novels, with little chaos influence, though. Since I still like winning games it's all about Possessed and Masters of Possession and Daemon Princes and Dark Apostles. They have some of the best Warlord trait options in their codex and can make really really killy characters. Their strategems are really good too. Their trait isn't quite as good - often it is entirely useless - but has good synergies if you include daemons, specifically Slaanesh, or units with Fearsome. It's not a top tier amy by any means but after some time with them in this codex I've found their 9th ed iteration quite fun and have cool tricks like rapidly redeploying raptors for 2cp, first turn deep strikes, fall-back denial, fall back + charge options, turning off enemy auras, turning off enemy ob-sec, and making enemies fight last. Choose this army if you enjoy their aesthetic, don't choose them for their rules - though their rules aren't as bad as the legion trait might suggest, they simply require more thinking ahead than something like Emperor's Children or Creations of Bile. I recommend them if you're a fan of Apocalypse Now, Batman (& Joker & Two-Face), Vlad "Dracula" Tepes, Ivan the Terrible, general edgecore aesthetics, lightning bolts, and the colors blue, red, gold (as well as bone & white).
This is the comment I was looking for XD I loved their ascetic from the moment I started playing, and then I read Soul Hunter, and I made my decision from there. Ave Dominus Nox, brothers!
@@takemikazuchij I heard he's been working on it but who knows if we will ever see another book, I hope we do though as the omnibus was one of my favorite books and I reread all 3 books at least once every year
Really looking forward to World Eaters, I hope they'll have a similar ability to AoS Blades of Khorne, growing stronger the more units die, no matter whence the blood flows.
There is only one right answer: The World Eaters. This is based in fact. I have two undisputable facts to prove this point: 1: Blood For The Blood God 2: Skulls For The Skull Throne Thank you for your time
I was torn between the Word Bearers and Purge, but I've settled on WB because they have a more certain future. Running the Purge as Iron Warriors was an option, but the Mark of Nurgle is very situational.
@@punchyMiddleEarth there is a clear aesthetic distinction. 30k traitor legions are way more clean and similiar to their loyalist counterparts. meanwhile, in 40k they have a totally different aesthetic, due to 10k years of chaos corruption
I like World Eaters and Red Corsairs, leaning toward World Eaters. Both seem to get better mileage out of their legion buffs, with Mark of Khorne of course. Khorne smash!
Alpha legion suffers doubly from having expensive options in WL traits and relics that specifically buff cultists. You invest a lot and forego many juicy options to buff up aforementioned cultists, and that's a very cool and thematic gameplay for AL ... BUT.... Not even the new dark commune cultist HQ in conjunction with all the available relics and trailts (cult leader, icon of the hydra cult etc) do they do anything more significant than holding objectives and maybe being a bit of screening. Torments can be "Ok" but feels counter to the feel of the Alpha Legion. I feel if they had something that radically changed or improved cultists somehow, they could really come into their forte.
@@lucask9651 I've already read it. To me it just exacerbates my issue. I know this is a personal opinion and anyone is free to disagree but... When I think Alpha Legion, the thing that pops up in my head is not Abaddon the Despoiler, Daemon Princes and Warp Talons xD It's stuff like Cultists, Superior stratagems, Objectives and esoteric/special weapons. But that's not really a viable playstyle compared to well.. Abaddon+warp talons lmao.
@@grumpycup4762 They still did keep the most important toys, in my opinion, and gained a new one in fall back and charge or perform actions. Master of Diversion is currently the best redeploy in the game, costing only 1 CP to redeploy 3 things and/or put them into Reserves, and Hydra's Wail has become such big money now that CP is so tight. 2CP Transhuman?2CP Lightning Fast? **THREE** CP Unwavering Phalanx? Sign me up.
Isn't the Dark Apostle model a word bearer model, canonically? Dark Apostle is a rank in Word Bearer command structure. Dark Apostle and Dark Disciple are both names from Anthony Reynold's Word Bearers series.
I love those books and have pretty much just reread them. One of the first 40k books I ever bought, back in the day. Highly underrated! And I am not even a Word Bearers fan.
Dark Apostle used to be a unique Word Bearers unit in 3rd Edition, then GW had the brilliant idea of giving everyone a Dark Apostle in 6th Edition just like how they had the brilliant idea of giving everyone a Spiritseer in 6th Edition when Spiritseer used to be an Iyanden unique unit as a Warlock upgrade in 3rd Edition...
@@Azoth86730 Just another example of GW getting rid of flavour in their armies... Why can't CSM use volkite weapons or relic terminators like the loyalists can?
Alpha Legion teal looks so cool and contrasting amongst all of the Chaosy bits. I love them and the black legion the most. Saw some really neat looking Alpha Legion "split-color" paintjobs with one half of the model painted Alpha Legion teal, and the other half some other color and a big blue lightning effect separating them. I guess theres a lore reason for it? idk all I know is it looks fking awesome
I wish GW would add legion specific upgrades in all boxes, the box could be just normal intercessors with Blood angels upgrades for example. Of course they would have to make more boxes with new art but it would make a lot of these less played factions more approachable. Emperor's children sounds very cool and probably the most evil faction in the lore but building an army of them seems very difficult and expensive
I stopped buying 40k minis almost entirely for my Iron Warriors since all the chaos models have slowly devolved into gibbering balls of flesh and trim. Compare the old csm kit to the new one and there's just too much sculpted on shit that makes no sense for IW thematically. 30k models let me play both games with majority the same models.
My buddy tells me all the time when I play my Alpha Legion army it is an odd duck. If you are going against a skilled player then the tricky tactics are not as effective, but if you go against a less skilled player then the tactics are not needed and are a bit of overkill. Like their strat to shut off an enemy objective. The odds of getting that off on a skilled player is slim and the time to get that to happen may not be worth it. Against a less skilled player generally you have run away with the game and shutting down their objective is just stomping on their neck and not needed. That being said I love my Alpha Legion and will always play them regardless.
actually, they were all alpha legionaries in other traitor legions armor. so in short, those guys are all alpharius, this youtuber is alpharius. we’re all alpharius.
I think people kinda sleeping on Black Legion. You get three great advantages with them that are not apparent. 1) Healing Abaddon. Only BL Detachments that contain a MoP can have their MoP heal Abaddon. 2) Lethality spikes in unexpected places. BL getting +1 to hit the closest unit give them a great counterpunch ability that can punish units staging or units that charged into your lines. +1 to hit after charging does the same, they have great assault ability, but they can also counter with reliable damage. Pairs well with Terminators and Obliterators especially. 3) Not suffering modifiers to Combat Attrition tests gives you reliability to field larger units, making Strats and Chaos Marks more effective on them. Of course you have decent strats. Several units benefit greatly from the +1 to hit, like Decimators and Land Raiders and other units that can fire in close combat. My Land Raider got tagged by Dimachaeron, but with +1 to hit, negating the Heavy -1, I was able to nearly kill the Dima on my turn. Neither of us expected that.
For me, the ultimate chads, the world eaters are what brought me back to 40k. Their simplistic drive and phenomenal looks are what i want. Those berserkers are one of the best designs gw has made
Well if you're playing World Eaters chances are you don't really care about anything complicated and just "angry red man with axe go burr" so you guys get a pass.
I’m getting back into 40k after a 10+ year break. Started playing Thousand Sons before they even had 3rd edition chapter approved rules. I have 27 (three squads) of the original pewter Thousand Son miniature, painted. I guess now that Daemons are their own army, I can put my LofC, horrors, flamers, and screamers aside until I paint enough Thousand Sons to rebuild the army where the daemons filled.
Very similar story for me. I started playing at the end of 3rd, and stopped just before 5th came out. Got back in about 6 months ago and currently rebuilding my T-sons up to their former glory.
@@rubricmarine6857 in addition to adding magnets to the bases of my minis to use totes instead of GW’s carrying cases, I’ve bought some tiny plastic flames (used for naval table top battles?) to show which one of my OOP rubrics are packing flamers. Forgot that I had a squad of 20 Digga Yoof models from the old Gorkamorka game that are painted up as cultists, so I won’t have to drop $100 on a full squad if I ever have a 100 point gap that needs to be filled in my army.
Damn it! Just started with Horus Heresy books and got a spoiler in the first minute of the video that was supposed to only tell me about the army strengths and weaknesses. Thanks! :(
Ngl, I don’t think you’re strength ratings are very accurate. T-Sons are probably strong, if not very strong. Not medium Word Bearers are not very strong. Whilst they are on paper, Creations of Bile and EC have been doing better despite you ranking them lower.
I'd love to run Night Lords if they got their own bits and pieces (wouldn't say no to an entire codex). I'm not good at kitbashing and I certainly don't have a lot of spare 'stuff' lying around to even attempt it.
There's not that much need to kitbash. The old resin upgrade kit will give you a lot of shoulders and bat-winged helmets to work with and there's lot of 3rd party heads to get them closer to their iconic look, but it's not really necessary and basic csm kits and especially the raptor kit work just fine with night lords without augmentation. Just need to paint the lightning on them to sell it! as edgelord player with far too many legionary and chosen kits than I'll ever need, they're fine with minimal kitbashing -- and once you start building them you'll quickly accumulate plenty of stuff to augment them with.
@@josephskiles i hate that the codex even has a line that says "many night lords commanders choose to strike from the skies." wow, yea, haha, this is where i would put my choice of jump packs to strike from the skies with...... .if i had one
@@orcbrand wow really? I didn't buy the new códex as soon as I heard we had lost the option ( among so many others), from what I have read about them becoming Legacy I still can't run mine the way I have them kitbashed with a power sword and plasma pistol. I know I know, lightning claws were better or even a power hammer but I made my Lord/ lords to follow fluff I made for him/ them. If I was trying to win games instead of just go with what I love I wouldn't have become a Son of Curze in the first place.
In a way, smurfs are immune to Night Lords legion trait, with that +1 Ld that means they never hit 5Ld... Spawn, Possessed and Raptors Ld debuff is shared, so it wont stack, Night Lords have -2 Ld
@@josephskiles i can emphasize as that sucks losing options like that. I may not understand the importance of using a jump pack Chaos Lord, but it is always good to have options.
@@viewtifuljoe4412 for me it was the coolness factor, I bought 3 of the FW praetors with jumppacks and kitbashed them with two handed powerswords and plasma pistols to make them 40k legal only for the option to be taken away. I also bought a regular Night Lords Chaos Lord from GW but it's no longer legal either as it has a combi bolter . They basically took all of the Night Lords HQ choices away.
I always liked Death Guard in the Heresy era but boy do I dislike the 40k models. Mortarion is pretty rad but that's about it for me. As far as 40k armies go, I feel like Word Bearers would be the most fun with the current direction of 40k CSM minis. Cool possessed + cultists, you can field regular marines and daemon engines too and still have them fit well even if they aren't the best on the tabletop
Lol...Iron Warriors are on the 'weaker' side? I like your vids, but you've never been wronger. Their ignore all cover, dense ir otherwise, slaved to oblits and vidicators = an absolute brick bat vs most armies.
The resident Iron Warrior player in my region is cleaning the floor with the rest of us atm, good luck surviving the shooting or making any damage against Iron Warriors.
I have night lords as main chaos marine faction from new book , lots of infanty/talons/terminators ... though I am going to print off a stack of demon engines as fancy running/ testing out a word bearers or creations engine list for amusement ... think that could be very entertaining hurtling up the board ,, double disco lords/ prince . 3 venom crawlers/ 3 maulers / couple of decimators with flamers and a 10 man unit of chosen to anchor on midfield .with a mop .
I moved from Death Guard for that exact reason They’re so busy and painting them was a chore with the armor, weapons, and fleshy bits. I’m probably going to pick up heresy era stuff in the future for them. In the mean time I pulled a fast one and picked up Thousand Sons.
I don't think the Lightning Claw in the rumour engine is for Huron Blackheart anymore. It doesn't actually look anything like any of the art and the beasties that people thought were the Hamadrya turned out to be for AoS Gargants.
The Iron Warriors don't quite get the devastating firepower they seem to have in the lore. But I'm glad they buffed the vindicator, predator and Land Raider to be pretty good. IW still rely on melee to get the job done. It's just a shame the Word Bearers are stronger by comparison. Doesn't seem quite right!
So I'm currently trying to decide my legion, and only have 1k points before I start painting. Only got a Terminator Lord with 2 Lightning Claws, Terminator Sorcerer, 10 man legionnaires, 5 Terminators, 5 Warp Talons, 5 Havocs with default box set, and a Rhino. Which legion and traits should I build with, other than slapping the Terminators with the Black Rune? Mostly asking for Rules wise, unless I'm going Black Legion or Word Bearers imma just go renegade.
