@@hillerfitI feel like CrossFit has turned into such a Ponzi scheme since back when Rich was in his prime way back in the day they’ve completely lost their identity everyone at the top running it is making all the money and leave everyone else to suffer even if they have to continuously sell out their own so called community time and time again with bullshit how about let the athletes get their own brand deals and wear whatever they want if they are able to it’s like a damn cult these days 😂 please we need more of the “community” so we can make a bullshit brand deal and sell you out they are the definition of the Democratic Party right now getting exposed and completely failing the marketing sucks they should be fired haha 😂 oh wait the community might get mad everyone is such pussies these days bro it’s so sad just put them all on some of our good test and let them free FFS!!! 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼 we know they all want to do it already and definitely were when they first started that’s when it was the best CrossFit ever. Have a good weekend my brother 🙏🏼💪🏼🙏🏼 be safe.
CF publishes a standard. Athletes choose to not meet that standard. Community informs athlete that they did not meet the standard. Community is labelled as toxic and negative. Did I miss a step? If the standards don't matter at the highest level, then they don't matter anywhere, and the whole thing falls apart. I was attracted to CF in 2010 because they had movement standards.
@@hillerfit It would be neat if we had bonus points awarded(+15%) for doing all the reps to the standard, to reduce the benefit of getting a points deduction on a higher score.
Fundamentally I agree. But I also think as long as we have our friends judging us this is what the community will get. Professional judges are wildly impractical for the open but we need professional judges for the games. With all volunteers we will always have some portion of them who may not want to norep their favorite athlete. Maybe just this once and no one will see…😏
If you let your members get away with " cheating the rep" during your daily workouts, they'll do the same during the OPEN. If you consistently hold them to the standards, they'll likely do them correctly when "competing".
Yes, hip and knee extension, shoulders behind the bar but PLEASE do not hyperextend your lumbar spine/lean back/shear your L5 on S1! Too many people do this while trying to over exaggerate the standard. Horrible, horrible for your back. 😵
I believe “muted hip” is being incorrectly labeled here instead of “lack of extension”. Muted hip function occurs when the hip doesn’t flex as commonly seen in a fault of the dip phase in a push press.
Yeah… this was distracting. We get what he means, but now people will be in gyms saying “that’s a muted hip,” when it’s not reallllly. Its hips chasing femurs, yes, technically, but not really the issue being discussed here.
When I was taught the deadlift technique I was told to roll my shoulders back, bringing the chest behind the bar. If you don't do that, you aren't getting the proper stimulus to get stronger (and get a big butt...if that is your goal).
I think having good a good coach can go a long way as well...I was testing out 2 rounds of this on Friday to feel it out, and after I finished my coach said, "none of those deadlifts counted". It surprised me, because I felt good about the reps, but he showed me that I definitely had my head over the bar. When I went to do it for real I really focused on head and shoulders back and squeezing my glutes and slowed down a tad to make sure I did it right. Not trying to defend everyone doing it poorly, but having a second set of eyes that cares to tell you what you are doing wrong is huge. Sometimes you just get complacent or aren't focused on the right things and need someone to snap ya out of it.
great video. This reminds me of people shorting the wall walks. That extra few inches of getting your hands close to the wall is very fatiguing and adds up.
You’re so right, and as a brand new coach who’s also very big on standards, due to my years in the Air Force for one, and proper movement it’s hard to get these “seasoned cross fitters” to even listen. It’s so damn frustrating.
Thanks for raising this, dude! It is a tragedy when nobody really cares about standard. Elite would anyway get best scores, but they have chosen to go to space as they were pretty sure that CF HQ also will not care.
From the CrossFit mainsite: "As first outlined in the “What Is Fitness?” article from 2002, CrossFit recognizes 10 general physical skills. They are cardiovascular/respiratory endurance, stamina, strength, flexibility, power, coordination, agility, balance, and ACCURACY." What more needs to be said.
Great video, let the purge commence! I thought it was crazy on the numbers I was seeing on the leaderboard. I personally think I am proficient with my deadlifts and I redid it because I saw my video and I was like “man I suck these aren’t full reps” I rowed a 1:50, unbroken every set and tripped maybe 2-3 times and managed to get 9+ for my score. Super stoked and proud of that score but I don’t see how 1:40, unbroken deads and perfect dubs can be that much better without soft deadlifts/no reps.
Just an FYI, Bethany Shadburne-Flores has a full video of her workout on her channel (not the clip you showed that's a different video) if anyone is curious about her form. She's usually technically good in all of her movements so she doesn't tweak her back.
Here is a great comparison to make that maybe more people will understand, in the military there is a standard right and everyone holds everyone to that standard, right? Lets do the same thing here.
Another major problem with the open is no-requirement for athletes doing workouts in affiliates with judges for posting videos online. Suddenly everyone is fast as fuck as long as they don't get judged properly and don't have to post a video proof.
Thank you for these videos! I started watching your content a while ago and not only made it me very aware of the standards in my own workouts but it also encouraged me to enforce them in classes more rigorously and this will sound funny but sometimes I see a class doing burpees and after making all the chests touch the ground and all the hips extend at the top I look around and think: hiller could actually come in here and not start to rage 🎉 love from Germany
I think Andrew Hiller should be on the judges panel for the Open Validation. It pisses me off how elite athletes get away with this. And the people who do it the right way are getting lower on the rankings. Don’t they have video standards for people to meet in order for them to count? If not their should be a requirement for how to film an open workout for it to count. Shout out to Hiller for opening our eyes of what’s going on. #NoReps
That's exactly why I don't do the Open anymore.Even at the gym's level,they don't call the noreps...why participate if most of the time you cannot be sure if the guy in front of you on the leaderboard has a valid score..
Andrew, good morning. I like your videos and your message of crossfit as, before everything, a methodology for achieving better fitness by following the program. The program includes many aspects, such as specific movements with specific patterns, standards, as we saw in the video. It seems like people are focusing too much on the competition side, rather than on the fitness side, that should be the motivation for the majority (no athletes). I have just sent this video to my mom as well, so that both of us don´t forget the main goal. Wish you success.
This workout touched on two things that are exceedingly annoying to me with deadlifts. One is legal one isn't - dropping from the top, and lack of extension.
At this point, I have no idea what constitutes handball in the Premier League anymore, nor what the point of CF publishing standards which they won't enforce. What is the intended stimulus of publishing standards, with lovely pictures and usually clear descriptions, which will never be enforced?
Wow. This video hurts. Happy to say everyone I judged was really solid on their DL form. I feel sad because I told everyone "there's no reason to get no repped in this workout because all you have to do is knees, hips, shoulders." But I guess that's hard for a lot of people.😑
Thank you @AndrewHiller for addressing issues that other people do not want to talk about! Let's improve movement quality at the top of the sport so that it trinkles down to the average joe in the gym!
As former powerlifter, most of these athletes would have got three red lights. this is what adds to the criticism of CrossFit as dangerous. These sloppy form deadlifts lead to back issues and injuries. I agree if Crossfit isn't going to enforce the standards why have them?
@@hillerfit Muted hip would be hip extended, knees slightly bent (e.g., commonly seen as a fault on a push press dip, failing to use hip power). Lack of hip extension is usually the opposite, knees locked out, hip not fully extended (though could also be with knees slightly bent).
@@hillerfit absolutely! Lack of hip extension is what you see in this video, flexed hips (also common in the clean, jerk, and snatch). Muted hip is "pelvis chasing the femur" or essentially hip extension when the knees are flexed. You can think of it as "leaning back." The most common occurrences of muted hip would be the dip of the push press or jerk or the receiving position of a power clean.
Dear Andrew, you're talking about the "Josh Bridges 16.4 case" but when making this video, did you check the deadlifts at the SemiFinals/Games? If so, how do they look... Because, at the SemiFinals/Games, Judges are supposed to be the best, "la crème de la crème", the individuals who can 100% tell a rep from a no rep 🙃, 100% tell what a standards-correct-deadlift should look like. Thank you (And I'm with you on this deadlift thing).
Video submissions should require a side view of the deadlift imo, and I don’t think the head rule makes much sense, but I see why it’s there. Head behind the bar is an easier visual cue for a judge than trying to judge a hip lockout. I think shoulders behind the bar should be enough for full ROM, but if head behind the bar is the rule, it must be followed, and of course all black outfits are always suspicious.
Things like this are a good example of why I didn't sign up for the open. The standards are bull shit, they are never enforced across the board. Just a complete waste of $20 like you used to say before you started beating the drum for crossfit.
You can judge the open. Well kinda. I took the judge's course and when I look at videos there are 3 buttons: good, needs review and Invalid. If you haven't taken the course you can see under videos the counters. Unfortunately it also says to leave comments detailing questionable reps and missed standards, but there's no field. Or was that always there?
Exactly! I couldn't leave any comments either. But how was this never advertised? I've taken the judges course for the last 3 years and this is the first time I've seen it but only by accident!🤯
CrossFit has become so embarrassing. Top athletes should be held to the highest of standards. These athlete in this video should be ashamed of themselves for cheating the community and cheating themselves.
I looked up my favorite CrossFit workout ever (deadlift burpee from 2008 games) and so many of those reps would not meet these standards…so problem has just never been cleaned up
WTF was that breakfast bit? Did someone submit that with their score??? Imma start doing that, film myself meal prepping and be like this is more impressive then an open workout lol
I remember back when Annie T and Lindsey V did the open announcement (2013 with S2OH, DLs Box Jumps) the live feed was up in arms because some of Annie deadlifts weren't quite to standard which is ironic because her reps were better than all the no reps in this video. The announcers basically saying something along the lines of elite athletes move at such intensities that lines get blurred. and here we are 11 years later. Gold jacket green jacket
I've seen quite a few of the soft knees lately at our gym, and many of what you highlighted here. Too much "Shove all this shit into a class, and very little does anyone talk about form, and good movement standards..
Watching back my deadlifts knowing that all of them were beautiful and 9 reps was the difference of 3000 places / 2% worldwide makes this extra annoying. Why can’t people follow basic instructions 🙃
My biggest complaint about CrossFit is they sacrifice form for speed. A lot of these athletes in their videos don’t do the standard. The games is a touch better but the videos on elite atheletes instagrams or open is more about quantity than quality. These deadlifts are atrocious. Rounded shoulders, soft knees, unengaged lats, nothing stacked.
If enough elite athletes do a movement the same way, then it cancels the standard (“the new normal”) or supports the current standard. Either way, their scores will still be higher than the above average affiliate member
I think its funny that you get negative feedback when you put out videos like these ALL THE FREAKING TIME. I will do my deadlifts as you've shown on my next attemp thanks to your video
What’s the point of CrossFit to make standards if there not going to uphold them. They should make all the elite athletes to either redo the workout, or make there scores invalided.
Why should they get to re-do the workouts. They all know the standards, and know that they are not meeting them. The cheater ones should all have heavy deductions to their scores. Not all of the elites cheat, btw. The cheaters are consistently cheaters.
Maybe they should remove the “head behind the barbell…” verbiage? If work is equal to force x displacement, how much farther (or more work) does the barbell travel with chin down vs. chin up? Is it a significant difference? Looked like about 1/4” when you lifted your head. Seems like another area where more details create more controversy.
It may be that it allows you to get the biggest breath during reps, and although people may be able to do multiple reps without breathing much it may lead to light headedness and failure to finish during a workout. P.S. I couldn't figure out how to break this up so it didn't look like a run-on sentence.
Guess head behind the bar = shoulders areback. Powerlifting standards is knees extended and shoulders back, 2 points of perfomance. But "shoulders back" is probably hard to judge since you dont have a defined lockout on multi-reps.
@@Benganboy1 Indeed. But I would argue it’s fairly easy to judge someone who has shoulders above hips above ankles when at the top of deadlift. But all the added details (like head up) just create a lot more gray areas for debate like the crazy hspu standard from a few years ago. As long as somebody picks up a barbell x-inches over and over, the “work” is the same. Just like having your chin above the bar constitutes a pull up. It’s an easily identifiable marker that indicates a person has done the amount of work required for a pull up. Unfortunately, a lot of dummies will forego virtuosity and prioritize minimum standards to accomplish these reps. I’m sure it’s tricky as hell for CrossFit to promote moving well for the rest of your life on one hand and as fast as you can for $350k on the other. But then again, it’s usually the people who move the best that compete at the highest levels. Idk - seems like a long-winded response from me regarding just picking something off the floor 😂. 🤷🏼♂️ on to 24.3
When I judge my athletes, I require everyone to do the movements to the written standards! It makes me mad to see videos of people doing the workouts with a judge in front of them letting no reps count. I judge, and I validate that THESE ARE CORRECT! Why doesn’t everyone else?
I dont do CrossFit. So I dont know the CF standards. But its safe to say, in my opinion , if the deadlifts are done correctly then the athletes would have to push pace in the rower. Which i believe was the way it was designed. For the most fittest on earth it shouldn't be a problem. Again just my opinion from someone looking from the outside in. In saying that what these athletes can do is impressive .
About the hips, how can you tell if someone is intentionally keeping them slack, or if they just have lumbar lordosis? If you can’t tell, is it an appropriate metric? Serious question. Maybe we should just focus on shoulders behind bar.
CrossFit has done a lot to keep people in check with form it's so disappointing to see this happening with "Elite" level athletes. It really doesn't help with the image of CrossFit being a sport where you are constantly getting injured when the people representing the sport the most have bad form.
I was silently judging Justin on every deadlift as well as other athletes. I'd be that judge that nobody wants because I'd no-rep you no matter what your name is. A standard is a standard, something the Army instilled in me. Do it right or don't do it at all. Elite athletes should lead by example and most of them fall very short.
If I had any latent regrets about NOT signing up for the open, this put those to rest. Why spend $20 (and then another $20 for the next phase), when none of it matters because of poor standards of movement by so many?
I believe the first words that came out of my mouth when this workout was announced was "this will produce the most no reps we've ever seen in the Open."
2024 Judges Course says Shoulder behind bar. It does not mention head behind the bar, just shoulders (and knee/hip) ext. In fact the first picture of deadlift, the athlete has their eyes looking downward in the manner you said is a no rep...
It also says, in the course, that standards for individual workouts can change. For example they’ll also put a bland HSPU standard in the course, but they’ve often changed it during the open .
@@coltboyd6294my point was more that this isn't a thing that should change every month (or even year). There is arguably no point to the judges course if the standards are going to change for the Open.
