I'm watching this after having read the book. I think the back story is gradually revealed in it in small chunks. I wasn't deterred for not having watched this video. By the second chapter, I was already invested in the story and gotten comfortable with the writing style.
That’s awesome! Great to hear. it’s true that a lot of it is revealed in small chunks throughout. The part that really got me interested in the story in a completely new way is the cosmic significance of Achilles’ existence-not just his choice between glory and life that is explicit in the epic, but the fact that it’s essentially compensation for something far, far greater that Zeus could not allow to happen. for me, it shows everything in a new light.
In 6th grade, in our tiny public middle school in rural NC almost 60 years ago, we were blessed to have our teacher read to us about half an hour nearly every afternoon. Each reading session would be followed up with a class discussion, which meant we had to pay attention and take notes rather than just zone out, but it became something we all looked forward to. She gave us the backstory of the Greek myths and read to us selections from "The Theogony" of Hesiod before reading to us both the complete "Iliad" and the "Odyssey." Among other titles, she also read to us "Ben Hur" by Gen. Lew Wallace, and before the school year was out, we finished "The Diary of Anne Frank." I wonder how many 6th or 7th grade teachers would (or could) do something like that now?
I've just started to read the great books of western civilization series and I found your channel when trying to find some well structured overview of the Iliad. And you nailed it better than most of the videos out there. Thanks for making these videos and hope you'll keep it up!
Was a big fan of Percy Jackson growing up! Excited to learn more about Greek Mythology! Thank you for posting this! Excited on getting through the whole playlist! You earned a new sub!
I love “The Iliad”! And cannot recommend Stephen Mitchell’s English translation! Not only clearer, but really gets the bravado and ultra-masculinity of the warriors in it.
Omg! Thats why thetis said that zeus owes him in the song of achilles novel. I didn't knew they had this type of relation😱 and also he was the one who forced her to marry peleus.
Hey that was wonderful. I’m reading, actually, listening on audible with my 7th grader. What are your thoughts about the age appropriateness of the content?
I’d say it definitely depends on the kid and what you are comfortable with. I know this book is assigned as high school reading all the time, so I don’t imagine it’d be too bad, but here are some things to consider: -The violence gets pretty graphic at times. Most injuries are described in great detail, and sometimes they are inflicted after a soldier is already dead, or has already surrendered (no mercy). -Sex is alluded to here and there, but is never described in any detail.
@@zacharymay650 My 6th grade teacher read the Iliad and the Odyssey (among other things) to us more than 60 yrs ago, and we apparently survived just fine. I've re-read both at least 3 times in different translations.
Have you spent any time thinking about the chronology of events (thank you, Cronus) and the ages of the protagonists? We know the gods are immortal so let us set them aside but what about the mortals? What do their lives suggest about the life spans of people in the Bronze Age? As the back story begins, Priam, king of Troy, is old enough to be Paris's father while Thetis and Peleus are newly wed, and Achilles is but a gleam in Peleus' eye. Hector is Paris's older brother. Menelaus are brothers and considerably older than Helen (a May/October marriage?). So assuming Achilles is born soon after the marriage of Peleus and Thetis and that he is about 15 by the time the Greeks arrive in front of Troy, he will be about 25 at the time recounted by the Iliad. Paris, who was tending goats at the time of the Judgment of Paris, is son of Priam and Hecuba. He has to have gone through puberty or be close to it for Aphrodite's offer to sway his judgement, so we an infer that he is about 10 to 15 at the time he renders his judgement, and he will be some 10 to 15 years older (20 to 30) at the time of the Iliad. Hector, who was the crown prince of Troy and therefore the oldest of Hecuba's 19 children, must be a several years older. (I can't find a list giving the birth order of her children. The youngest was Polydorus, too young to fight in the last year of the war.) So at the end of the Iliad, when Achilles slays Hector, Hector will be close to 20 years older than Achilles. Pretty good, Hector running around the walls of Troy three times before allowing Achilles, fleetest of mortals, to catch up with him. Note the above ignores the fairly significant time required for the Greeks to organize their fleet of a thousand ships at Aulis and to sacrifice Iphigenia. These events would presumably mostly follow the time Achilles spent in the court of Lycomedes on Scyros because, as part of the organizational effort, Odysseus would discover Achilles hiding amount the women of Lycomedes court and bring him to Aulis.
Wow, you put a good amount of work into that! Very interesting, thank you. I have thought about it, and in doing so I found that it doesn’t make sense, mostly because of the time that would have to take place between the golden apple and the Olympian beauty contest(Achilles’ conception up to when he was sought to come to Troy, at which point he already had a reputation as a great warrior). That aside, I too would put Achilles in his 20s at the time of the Iliad. I think 45 is a little old for Hector (Roman armies discharged soldiers at that age, if I recall correctly) but I agree he’s older than Achilles. Priam is trickier. If the Psalmist is correct, and 70 to 80 years is the best someone can hope for in the Bronze Age, I think we would have to put Priam fairly close to that. Remember, he doesn’t take the field at all, while Agamemnon does, and I would guess Agamemnon to be in his 50s, with Menelaus perhaps up to a decade behind. Very interesting topic!
@@zacharymay650 There are great many inconsistencies and mysteries in the back story to the Iliad. How could Achiles have a reputation as a great warrior prior to the Trojan War if he was disguised as a girl in Lycomedes' court? Further, if he had two sons with Lycomedes' daughter, Deidamia, he must have been somewhat older when Odysseus tricked him into showing his true character. (Wasn't his son, Neoptolemus, one of the men hidden inside the horse?) And what about this Odysseus character? He must have been pretty well along in years by the time he found his way back to Ithaca. He must be a contemporary of Agamemnon and Menelaus as he was one of Helen's suitors and architect of the pact that created the Greek alliance that would unite the Greeks in defense of the marriage of Helen and Menelaus. He has to unmask Achilles and bring him to Aulis. He dreams up the wooden horse. He sails around the Mediterranean Sea for ten years. By the way, which translation of the Iliad do you like? I read Pope's translation but am game to try another. I am rather inclined to one in verse over a prose version as I think that poetry would better maintain the pace and majesty of the Homeric epic.
@@ΣωκρατηςΜανουσακης my mistake! At the time I’d thought Argos was more of a region, and Sparta was within it. The Greeks would probably be mad to hear that XD thanks!
It is probably the best strategy to choose the best English translation before reading The Iliad. They say, the translation by Richmond Lattimore is the best.
@@zacharymay650 Fagles is a popular translation too. They say it is a verse translation, so it makes me curious which is a better read - verse or prose translation?
The illiad like the odyssey and other similar works like the havamal and the orphic hymns are much much more than they appear they contain the ancient mysteries in symbolic allegory
BMc, now that's something to be quite proud of. You're one of the increasingly rare critters. Well done! Surely you must "hang out" with fans of Luke Ranieri's "Polymathy" YT channel. I can only say I've read it few times in multiple translation, including my Loeb Classical Library (Rouse) edition. Alas, I only read half of it, so to speak -- the English translation pages.
Leonardo da Vinci said " The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions " Plato shared with us wisdom he learnt from Egypt, wisdom that was a death sentence in Greece, Rome (Christianity) ..Pythagoras, Socrates and later Hypatia of Alexandria. Plato in his dialogue " The Republic " tells the parable of " The Cave " Plato starts by telling us of prisoners being held in a underground den, let us examine this den via the geometry of Bernhard Riemann and Felix Klein..Klein bottle..3rd and 4th dimensions. Plato tells us that the prisoners are bound up unable to move their heads, let us examine this bondage via the psychology of Erich Fromm..socialisation of consciousness.. aware-unaware. Plato tells us that the prisoners mistake shadows for substance, let us examine this mistake via the philosophy of Thales, Hume and Kant..synthetic a priori judgement..not thing in itself. Plato tells us that one of the prisoners is released, let us examine this release via the wisdom of T Lobsang Rampa..stilling the mind and conscious astral travel..leaving the cave/body. Plato tells us that the prisoners will reject this release, let us examine this rejection via the psychology of Stockholm Syndrome..Plato quotes Homer..forgive them for they know not what they say. Men are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds. Mathew 23 13 31.
@@zacharymay650 Oh and the stoning of one of Priam's youngest son's too, and Trolius got it too being 19, but his over confidence didn't help him either
