Everything You Thought You Knew About The Gospels Is Wrong! 

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This was EPIC! Finally a scholar that fully recognises the philosophical and literary roots of the texts. I always wondered how every minute detail gets tied to oral tradition as if no writer would be creative himself. The fresh, bold and sober perspective Dr. Walsh brings to the field is highly needed and i really hope we will hear more of her in the future. Thank you Derek for bringing us this gem of a scholar. Made my day!

It's both amazing and sad that there are so fewer people that are interested in this channel and other educational vids pertaining to religion. Please tell me Americans are catching on faster than it seems. This channel ROCKS. THANK YOU

Derek: I too am MythVision. Your videos are precisely what I have been waiting for, since I first was introduced to the gospel in 1964 (back then, I was only 13). So many mysteries seem to be getting solved when I hear from your guest scholars. I hope you never go away.

FINALLY, something nuanced yet simple that ties it All together. Wow. She perfectly communicates the messiness and natural tendencies of human behavior so easily. Almost everyone else is hyper focused on some lense of interpretation. This is all encapsulating.

This is exactly the discussion I’ve been looking for for a long time. As far as I’m concerned, the author of Mark is the most important person we never talk about.

Derek, one of your best interviews. Robyn is a very talented scholar! Please have her back.

I can’t get enough of these conversations! I’m trapped inside of a labyrinth of which I don’t want to get out!

Fantastic, nuanced, thought provoking stuff. Had she been my professor I would have switched majors just to be in her classes. 😉 I think she’s made another book sale.

Paul is to Christianity as Joseph Smith is to Latter Day Saints.

This has become one of the best and most professional podcasts on all of RU-vid, independent of the theme it covers.

Great guest, Derek! I disagree with her and especially Paula Fredrickson about Paul - - tending to agree far more with James Tabor's view, but Dr. Walsh is a wonderfully helpful and likeable guest. Good choice!

I wish she would have mentioned the highly skilled literary techniques the gospel writers used which is proof that these writings are works of literature and not history and is further evidence to back up her thesis about the authors as well.

Excellent conversation, one of the best in a while, and that is saying a lot. Keep up the great work.

Bravo! this is precisely what we need to get the study of christian "origins" on track, thank you Robyn and Derek :)

2:33- her book 10:17- how conversion is made to look like in Luke & acts 15:03 - life expectancy 24 yrs. 16:01- 18:10- gospels have bits of what Paul said? 37:42- theucydites & herodutus (claiming that source was eyewitness) 39:07 47:00 cock crowing, denial , satyricon 54:08- why Paul might've been successful? 1:04:09- last supper & Paul mentioning it. 1:05:31- ecclesia/church 1:11:55- some Greek mythology allusion

It was actually quite common for the Greek to rewrite stories. Which was perfectly fine as long as the original was still recognizable and they followed the same plot. There were even yearly contests with prizes and prestige for the best poet/writer to do this. A lot of stories differed from region to region.

Derek, kudos for just letting her talk. Very informative. I've always been suspicious of the "oral tradition" apologetics used by liberal Christians. No more need to listen to liberal Christian apologetics than to listen to the 'fundie" apologetics. While they seem more 'reasonable' they are still trying to hold up a belief set. Oh, and we all want to see a show with both her and Dr. Carrier. The masses have spoken. So it is written, so let it be done.

Excellent presentation. When she has published her upcoming book on Paul, she needs to come back on and gives us a heads up.

Fantastic, Derek. Definitely will need to add Dr. Walsh's book to the list, as well as Dr. John Cook. Apparently I need to re-read the Satyricon as well...

15:05 "...life expectancy is about 24 years old." This is at the low end of the estimated range and is misleading to many because it is the mean expectancy at birth: it includes a rather high rate of infant mortality. It does not mean that most adults keeled over at 24 years of age.

Was immediately hooked from the beginning!! Robyn definitely communicated something new and original and in line with Dennis McDonald, as they're both looking into stuff most people don't consider or want to hear. Great and engaging discussion, thank you Derek for this!!

I agree with so much Dr. Walsh is saying. It just makes so much sense. Theres a lot of subtle apologetics going on in nt scholarship where they won't even touch something thats right in front of their face because its sacred. Paul was the head honcho of the early church. He says he's a super apostle equal to the other apostles, he brags about calling the head of the church and vicar of christ (according to catholics) peter a hypocrite to his face, and states he was ascended into the 2nd Heaven. Its far more plausible that the gospel writers took from Paul's letters and reworked the material to fit their community's needs and so much more. People want to play down Paul's motives and I dont know why. He was an educated and well connected pharisee and co-opted a backwaters new apocalyptic religion and up until today, Christianity everybody knows is the Christianity of Paul. Why not speak as if Paul is where people are getting these traditions from. Instead, we get all of this oral tradition studies saying there MUST be an oral tradition behind it like what James Dunn and others state. I just don't buy it. Thank you Dr. Walsh, religion is man made and we should look at it through a human understanding of its development. Answers a lot more questions FYI, the christs association boom by John Kloppenborg is very good. Theres a good book about the story of Jewish law from Jesus to the mishnah by E.P. Sanders which is awesome as well called " Jewish law from jesus to mishnah"

Richard Carrier also said that Greco Roman schools have this genre of myth building as a "curriculum".

Why don't the gospel writers know much about Jesus so that they have to copy each other and pad out their stories with passages from the OT and possibly texts from the Greek classics. Hope this video will help with that.

The “Matthew, Mark, Luke and John” rhyme was first published as a charm or blessing in 1656, England, by Thomas John Ady in his book “Candle in the Dark: Or, A Treatise Concerning the Nature of Witches & Witchcraft” “Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, The bed be blest that I lie on.” Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, Bless the bed that I lie on. Four corners to my bed, Four angels round my head; One to watch and one to pray And two to bear my soul away.

I literally LOL'd at graphic Robyn used for "Paul's Death". I was like, "Is that Abbey Road???" then it hit me. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 So awesome. 👍👍

So Steve Mason establishes that Luke knew Josephus' works, now Robyn Walsh shows that the Satyricon (and possibly other classical literature) references, or was referenced by, the synoptic gospels. Questions: how many people in the 1st century CE Roman Empire 1) could both read and write in Greek and/or Latin; and 2) had access to a library of contemporary literature from which they could draw inspiration and quotations? How widely were Josephus' works circulated?

The one thing I REALLY took from this discussion is that the mainstream academics in biblical scholarship are not open to other theories or changing their minds at all. Great chat!

This was a really incredible episode. I sure liked her insights into the text, and I found her approaches to the Biblical Works are so new. I'm so glad that she is publishing and becoming known. But, damn, Derek, please, have Dr. Walsh back and spend her few episodes on hearing more about her views of the writings of those periods. This was one of the best episodes ever, and I've watched a number (more than the sum of all my fingers, thumbs, and toes) of episodes of this. And, she was quite the joy to watch, laugh with, and enjoy. She's got an infectious personality and childlike laughter that just makes her content and presentation so much more enjoyable.

So _simple_ and difficult to overlook it's brilliant. I love the fact that Doctor Walsh gave me some context to the period of German Romanticism which I am approaching at the moment in order to understand a much different topic.

Beautiful and smart this lady is

If Jesus taught in Aramaic why are the most important Christian terms highly technical Greek philosophical terms? Paraclete / logo/ kategetes /minogeneros and etc. Are we to believe that these highly technical Greek philosophical terms were used to translate a single Aramaic word?

What a great episode! Robin Faith Walsh, another addition to my list of to be read. Kudos to you Derek for keeping up with her. I may go back and listen to this again at half speed. Also, she's so gorgeous, how could you concentrate on what she was saying if you were in her class?

Wow. Richard Carrier level right there. And that is high praise.

Dr. Robyn your book is on its way to my address. Thank you Derek.👊🏿👊🏿👊🏿

This is probably one of the best episodes I've ever watched. I've often heard of the bible spoken of as literature but it's only listening to a discussion like this that I realize that I've never thought of it in relation to other literature. Love the classics angle. Could listen to this lady talk all day. A scholar. And someone who very much prepared for the episode. I know it was an hour an forty minutes but it still felt too short. Genuinely hope you have her back. Great talk.

What a great interview. You both did an amazing job. Dr. Walsh you are now my early Christian idol. As a woman, it was extremely refreshing to watch a video with you where you are so intelligent, professional, and well spoken.

This was amazing! I loved it. When Paul said in his writings in the Christian bible "It is written", referring to the Jewish Bible, he would twist the quote, giving it a completely different meaning.

Great interview. A Bible scholar who's intelligent, well-spoken, beautiful, and....loves The Beatles?? It must be Christmas! (haha)

The same general conclusion can be drawn about the old testament. A composition of established forms of expression. Broader than literary tradition. An idol is a narrative container. Animals express archetypes. The narrative reflects on, critiques, existing traditions. It uses them. Egypt is a launchpad for the narrative. It's thick with existing narrative devices. And religion is language itself. Exclusively in the biblical perspective. We see birth ritual (Moses on the Nile). The exodus is a ritual (river of land). Struggle with establishment and coming to insight is a continuous theme from east to west, often as a personal narrative but here as a group (elevation, exaltation). Existing narrative structures that dig into the zeitgeist. People think in full sentences. We need an explanation. We'll tell a story. We take what we know. I think the stories are very conceptual. They are compositions. Elitism is definitely the topic. These are informed and advanced expressions, a form of art. Perpetuated by schools, priest class. This is quite essential in the continuum of expression. We can be open to what's being expressed. But the word of God definitely likes to shop around at 5th avenue.

I was about to order this book and then I realized it costs 113$ on Amazon. Damn!

I am a Muslim and I like Derek. Derek is far the best atheist I have seen. He does not impose himself onto people he asks the question and he listens. He does not make scholars speak what he wants to hear. He let them speak themselves out and he listens. As I said I am a Muslim. I want him to bring more Muslim scholars, and put them on the hot seat. I don't believe we have the original books of Quran left by Muhammad or the Torah or gospel. But I believe during Muhammad time there was an original Torah, gospel and Bible. What happened to this books. I don't know maybe one day we will discover them somewhere

Oh my god, I just got her book. This is gonna be a great interview. Thanks Derek

Having grown up in Liverpool in 1970s i know that even now in 2024 it is not possible to write accounts of the fab fours life that is merely invented. A lot of the material is available in oral tradition

I acquired this book a couple of months ago, but haven't started reading it yet. Shall do so as soon as possible.

Just Wow! Greta Garbo meets Maureen O'Hara as a First Rate thinker! Total one stop shopping on trying to figure out the origins in 33 A.D. of what I say was a Zoroastrian Gnostic World Age Passage Movement already under way when the "Jesus Movement" hit out of the equivalent of San Francisco 1967 in Alexandria, Egypt around 36 A.D. This is my approach in my own book fully under way. Get her on next discussing St. Paul and 2nd Temple Gnostic Cosmologies. Derek, your channel has just exploded over the last two years to become the supreme rapidly growing vortex of this entire inquiry on the global Internet. I am so proud of you! It is astonishing! I just got her book!

So these gospel writers aren't even necessarily even believers writing within or for a community of believers? They could just be literary elites who are taking an artistic interest in this emergency christian phenomena and seeing who can write the best story for the Roman Daily Magazine?. Unbelievable.

Christianity: the worship of human sacrifice. The shedding of human blood in exchange for being saved. This screams paganism.

Thanks @Mythvision for this interview. I didn’t know her and i just check her book and i finally read someone talking about the potential dependence of Mark on the Satyricon. A subject put aside and ignored (voluntarily ?) by scholars.

Robyn is amazing, obviously a sharp woman. Thanks for this interview, hope to see her again.

I learned about 10 new things from this conversation. Amazing insight in this interview

This was brilliant. Finally a scholar who recognizes how little we actually know about Christian origins. Most of them just build on established assumptions and treat them like fact when they really aren't. I've always missed the perspective of the sciences where you test and try to disprove your hypothesis. In bib scholarship people get way too much respect for basically speculating and just adding to a house of cards of assumptions.

i think to myself what a joy it would be to hang out with a girl this smart back when i was young and it might matter! i know this doesn't relate in any way with your work here but it's such an overwhelmingly powerful thought for me here that i figured i'd share it

As usual Derek brings on a wonderful scholar that demolishes the Christian ideas that the Gospels were some perfectly inspired historical retelling of a real life character known as Jesus of Nazareth.

Thank you Robyn and Derek. I think the insight that the gospel writers wrote for their own purpose and not merely collected the thoughts and stories of their community is very powerful. The authors are defending a viewpoint against perceived opponents. I think ‘Mark’ is defending some the Gentile Mission methods and message of Paul, not that he searched around and found Paul materials as if there was little else. On the subject of the tomb in Jerusalem ( the first tomb as per Dr Tabor) the fact that around 320 CE the local Christian community could remember that there was a set of tombs buried beneath the Temple of Aphrodite built by the Emperor Hadrian 200 years before, suggests a community memory that was important to them.

Excellent interview thankyou Robyn and Dereck. My summary comment = "SHADES of Bruno Bauer who thought that Christianity was "Stoicism triumphant in Jewish garb". Here are my notes. Sorry about the typos. Origins of Early Christianity Robyn Faith Walsh Q and the "Big Bang" Theory of Christian Origins Paul: spirit pneuma - Stoicism 14:00 Gospels after temple down 70 CE How to get from 30CE to 70CE = Oral tradition 15:40 Literate pokesperson writes it down Game of telephones = multiple generations tll story accrately Spoken in Aramaic but written in Greek 17:50 Oral tradition doesn't work. Are there another written sources (formative) 30 (JC Dies) - 70 (Mark WRITES) Gospels are not in verse. Written in narrative form Why obsession with oral tradition and "Origin"?? 22:00 Went back to 18th/19th century academics = "Romanticism" "Romanticism" = Origins, "Volk" (Stories of the people), Community and the Poet Motivated by political or national issues Flow over into study of classical and biblical texts EG: Shakespeare. Capturing common stories "national spirit" Emergence of "Religious Studies" Emergence of "Brothers Grimm" & Kuhn PROBLEMATIC: "Romanticism" = Origins, "Volk" (Stories of the people), Community and the Poet Romantic period: Most Germany protestant and anti-Papal 31:20 Roman pagan viewed as heather and heretic Paul knows philosophy and has upper class education Framework of "Romanticism" is not sufficient "We dont know aot about the Christian movement" Paul tick. Others we dont know. Paul seems outsider 34:30 Roman Education in Imperial Period P.52 Gospel John fragment Shows material produced by cultural elite Shows educations, editing, copying Cutural Networks * Cultural Elites * Highly edicated * Literary netorks EG: Synoptic Gospels LUKE 1:1-4 = Shows cultural network EYEWITNESSES Classical Historians vs Biblical Sources Herotidus quotes UBLIEVABLE "eyewiteness accounts" 41:00 Another Book = 41:00 ? "Love the [Roman] empire or hate it Jesus is a perfect subject" Curiousity of "ancient LXX" ? Jesus narrative is about the empire Rhetoric = political narrative Synoptics (3) = "Big Bang" to 3 communities NO We have Three elite people writing > ===> Rhetoric 43:00 Are Synoptic writers normal writers of cultural elite in 1st century (un-isolated? Other authors? "The Satyricon" - Petronius similar stories to gospels? but text is from 2nd century Writing in Pliny's circle??? Annoints and then Divides body (Sat 141) Sound NT like Cock Crowing (Sat 74) Chariton, Chaereas = "Empty Tomb" Common ancient literature MARK borrows Gospels and Bio? 50:00 Paul - "Deep love for subject" Ancient Jewish scripture (Philo) mixing Plato and Moses Gentile curiousity Paul reads Greek LXX Paul well educated and communicates philosophy such as Stoicism. Paul combines this in his discourse letters: PAUL = comprehensive program taps into political element. Conform to Stoicism and Middle Platonism PAUL must compete with other communities or writers 54: 30 * LIBRARY Emily Lind--- Oxy Library of three pages of Romans PAUL talks to risen Christ and writes it down 57:20 Acts 17 Zeus Cave of Zeus Tomb unknown. Taxonomy of different "flesh' Paul often quotes LXX Ancient writers make allusions = Second Sophistic Paul often trys to prove something - tries to convince readers 1:02:00 Last Supper? HJ in gospels? ALT THEORY = last supper accounts in gospels Falsely implies "Oral tradition" Paul = zombie Jesus appeared to me Here's how I know. Simple explantion read letters of Paul One option other than standard Literary explanation !! Ecclesia = association have meals together all the time Meal / Collection $$$ / hierarchy Satiricom "Widow of Aphesus" Roman soldier guarding tomb. Comforts woman mourner 3 days 3 nights During which someone steals body on cross Widow takes husband body on cross to protect save Roman soldier Are gospels reading this or vice verse? ??????????????????? Satire? Mixing literary motifs NOT oral traditions 1:10:20 Dennis McDonald Robyn Walsh uses Dennis (COOL !!) Mimesis HOMER Eucation =Homer Literary memes in the air 1:13:20 Robyn With Dennis * Context of ancient world = literature * NOT oral tradition with HJ BB * Education system = character studies * Fill in blank from Hector * Genre form precludes poetry * Writers have habits * NT people obsess over "Teaching of HJ" * old methodology in past centuries * Homer challenges this * Freud "ego" terms used today * Intelectual waters are often muddied * Not trying to prove mimesis * Motifs are there - in plays !! * Attedance at theatres 1:19:00 Josephus three crucified * Makes Flavians look good n some places * Josephus was a prisoner of war 1:21:20 Authors = Roman Stories are re-written without attribution RW: Authors reference litrature. Pre-existence in Homer like literature already had authority PREMISE = Jesus is jewish, Paul Jewish The true god is Jewish NATION = Christian / Jewish 1:24:00 Why are gentiles being converted Jewish / Roman / Christians God-fearers ?? Paul experienced the risen Christ !!! His descriptions of this appeal to Jesus Overcomes death. Paul never uses word "Christian" Covenant for gentiles = baptism etc The resurrection is the first domino to fall. Paul ushers in new age Alot of stuff comes from Paul 1:28:30 Resurrection Community tacked on the end of Mark Ghost / spirit What makes the HJ physical resurrection 1) extra special dudes get the full resurrection 2) Paul is being stoic.plato "flesh" and spirit body is "pneumatic" Plutarch = 1) body to earth 2) soul goes to space 3) spirit to sun or elysium 4) those attached to body - no heaven 5) Paul = philosopher + human 6) Other writers 7) spiritual body - physical body 8) docetism 9) philosophical literature of epoch 10) no fixed way that people think 11) Paul maybe says one thing but other stuff 1:36:00 MATTHEW??? Centurion has great faith? * MATT ha read Mark * Creeped out by pneuma / spirit * competition between authors * Jesus in Matthre is Stoic (Erin Roberts) * Talks about ANGER like the Stoics * Well versed in philosophy of day * Community background approach no go. * Jewish / Stoic approach. Robyn = "OPEN UP CONVERSATIONS" Great work !!!

The Satyricon is widely accepted as being written as literal Satire of the Christian story. It was written during the time of Nero who coincidentally was the self avowed destroyer of Christianity. Obviously he would want to mock it.

Epic. I am going to spread this video "far and wide!"

Too much goodness for just Patreon! "Is a lamp brought in to be put under a basket, or under a bed, and not on a stand?" Mark 4:21

The similarity of (familiar to many stories) the tomb struck me as a reminder that "Luke" seems to have come directly from Marcion without much of a beginning or ending. Marcion 144+/- CE. Either some unknown person gave this unfinished piece of work to Marcion or he wrote it himself. What RWF discusses helps make it easy to understand the end of the story that was added. Marcion, to the best of what we know. The convincer might be different. Marcion wrote that the final piece of data this was the risen son of man was that he ate fish. It mattered that... He was solid...apparently everyone else (or god/being) goes to heaven or hell it would appear. How long did Marcion have this gospel? No one knows but he is likely the closest to the point of the Big Bang...for the synoptics... (The letters of Paul are a whole different subject...Perhaps written as RFW suggests in the 50's.)

I'd like to buy her book, but it's $85 and no Audible version. :(

Here's the dream panel: Elaine Pagels Tovia Singer Richard Carrier Robyn Walsh What three of four agree on, I'm going to believe without damn good reason not to.

BTW Fredrickson has made some very direct statements in some conference presentations that "we must move beyond" or "get past" Baur, because she views Baur/Tubingen school as divisive and overly anti-Pauline. figure. However, as long as their are eminent scholars like Tabor taking the opposite view, there will be ongoing inquiry and discussion.

Hope she does write this next book, I'm hooked!

My understanding of oral tradition has to do with the fact that if your people write down your oral tradition on paper they will tend to forget about it as it's in a book that is closed on a shelf somewhere, when you learn oral tradition you pass directly from one generation to another exactly what the scripture teaches you, so the idea of having an oral tradition had more to do with spending many hours of your day memorizing scripture thusly keeping you out of trouble and away from thinking otherwise

When she said that Peter and James get their authority from knowing the historical Jesus, where did she get that idea from?

Robyn is gorgeous geez 🥰🥰

Just a thought, Alexander the Great died age 33, Jesus died age 33. The Greek god's in mountain Olympus were 12, the apostles were 12. Hector was dead for 3 day's and then his father asked for permission to pick up the body, Jesus was dead for 3 day's and Joseph asked permission to pick up his body.

Very interesting discussion. I thought about how Moses and Elijah didn’t have graves, and they show up in Matthew 17 and Peter wants to make 3 tabernacles for each. Seems like they are definitely seen as gods, and equal gods to Jesus

Another fantastic one! My reading list is just getting longer and longer...

Absolutely wonderful presentation thank you.. I watched another talk with a room full of 'brains' listening which was informative but this was very different.. Robyn let her hair down and went fully human so to speak.. Her laughter and casual nature worked wonders in my comprehension and understanding.. Throughout I kept hearing the words in my head.. 'Gospel of Thomas'.. perhaps next time (?)

Moron high School dropout but I've never believed in God since I was 7 and this woman proves why I don't I understand every word she's saying perfectly this was an excellent show thank you

55:37 Paul doesn't say that Peter knew Jesus. To the contrary, he says that everything is "according to scripture" even after he "met Peter". Frankly, I think Paul made this all up - including Peter. He just needs some excuses for pocketing everyones money and thus makes up the apostles who (he claims) get most of that money.

Fascinating stuff, unless one has experiential knowledge, the best one can do is make an educated guess, a form of belief, that's what this is, a belief, no more or less than the religious beliefs of others. To wrap up a scholarly opinion as any more than this can appear to be somewhat disingenuous when talking about events which happened 2000 odd years ago. I become disheartened when scholars claim to have solved this or that, they've solved nothing, they are giving us their opinion. If we keep this in mind we can just balance it with our other thoughts and try to work things out for ourselves, essentially we only know the reality we know and nothing else, the rest is to be sought, if one feels so inclined. If not, just believe what you want to believe. Thought provoking video, thank you.

I saw another talk by this professor where she spoke about authors' intentions instead of communities producing these texts. I think that is a really interesting and new insight so I'm glad to see more details on this idea.

22:00 there's an OWL in the background and she's a GREEK classics scholar ... Aha, she's Athena. She's CHEATING, she was THERE...

Great video! "The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it."

Wonderful interview. Thank you both.

Really good interview! If Paul is coming from a gnostic point of view, and it seems that he is, when he talks about Jesus being buried and then being resurrected, why can’t that be gnostic as well? It almost seems as if the dying / rising savior god motif is simply modeled after the setting sun, which inevitably rises again. The 3 days of darkness there is simply the winter solstice. Couldn’t that really be Paul’s whole thinking on Jesus’ burial? And he is not even concerned about physical grave at all?

Wow, I could listen to Robyn for ever, great show.

Because this doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere, the scholar Dr. Walsh mentions around 54:32 is Dr. AnneMarie Luijendijk.

It goes to show that much intelligence, study etc can still leave someone blind to the simple truth. Elites wrote the gospels and created Christianity with a gulf to the teachings of Jesus.

Conversion can be spontaneous and sudden. In the Welsh revival of 1904/5 produced tens of thousands of spontaneous conversions

Fabulous chat. Love the passion and analysis! Keep up the great work Derek!

The fact modern day humans believe in any religion in 2021 boggles the mind. However, it's a timeless business model.

So, was the perception of judaism analogous to the white guy buddhist thing? i.e. Was there a bit of exoticizing/orientalism going on? That's the impression I'm getting here. The past may be a foreign country but human motivation stays pretty consistent so long as you understand the context. The idea of a relatively wealthy, erudite society taking a facile interest in the novelty of other cultures seems so plausible to me that I'm worried I'm just confirming my own biases. I always wondered about why people were adopting christianity outside of the levant. The draw of "old + exotic" is entirely understandable now that I've seen it summarized like that.

Dr Michael Hiser has great insight into understanding the culture at the time. As well as Nehemiah Gordon with a perspective on Torah. There are others as well questioning dogma. I would think the disciple Matthew as a tax collector would certainly be educated. On Paul, even Peter says he is hard to understand. The “church” tends to worship Paul not “Jesus”. Glad to see others are questioning. also.

Why are their names in English like Jesus,Mark,Luke,John,Matthew,Mary,Joseph,etc,etc and not Yiddish,Hebrew,Jewish or Israelite names???

She uses a lot of conjecture. The life expectancy was 25? That’s laughable. It wasn’t uncommon to live into your 100s just as it is today. Life expectancy was shorter but to assume that 30 was in any way considered an old age is insane. Her numbers clearly state that Paul died in his late 60s or early 70s. To assume it’s all oral tradition because nobody would have witnessed Christ’s resurrection is just a lie.

When I first became a believer in the whole Christian philosophy theology it was a act of persuasion. Okay, I had many questions for just about every book of the Old and New Testament. Back then as it’s probably is now, when you came into a age where you were not under the protection you were given a choice, but it was not only a choice but rather that you must be born again. My parents had me Baptized, (which I don’t remember), as a new born. Now I had to be Baptized again after accepting Jesus Christ as my savior. To be Baptized with the Holy Spirit was additionally a prerequisite for proof, to the congregation, that okay now you are accepted by the Church ⛪️ as a full fledged member of the state of not only the supreme council, father, son and the holy spirit, but now you known though out the entire church as one of them. You see though in order to be saved and receive the holy spirit you had to put away any questions or notions about the truth of what was or is the accepted scriptures. Okay, futuristically speaking, after moving around a lot more than most people likely ever have done, (even more than military personnel), one tends to get theoretically educated about how the world works and how you fit into the order. I pretty much got the picture very clearly and I saw myself as never going to belong anywhere. I was a solid believer in my heart and soul. Sang in the choir. Attending services every time the doors were open. Gave in the offering plate and service wherever they were needed, if it was within my power to go. I studied I think as spare time allowed. Yet in my travels to and fro I was sadly ignored by Christians. People who say that they are believers, act as they are supposed to, and yes walk right on by a fellow human being--- The story given prior to this statement is only a example! The straw that broke the camel’s back, metaphorically speaking, was a preacher asked the flock to see how much they loved God (Jesus). This man at the pulpit asked for everyone to sign over their paycheck as proof that they loved the whole entire deity. We were to give with our loving heart or the gift would be in vain! I gave my whole entire week Paychex. Years after I had conversation with my pastor in the parking lot. The subject came up about giving. Not only that but the subject came about giving and he mentioned to the subject of how many would give from the heart of their whole entire weeks paycheck. I did, he called me a fool! After this I really opened my eyes for the truth about everything! I have even written a book, for which only one person has read---mom. Every church inside every city and state is so full of themselves that’s not even funny. Anyone who had the need for explaining their righteousness I walk away from quickly! Anyone who wants to tell me about God and the entire deity I run from! I believe in me. I know I am good without anyone shoving it to me that I am not. My eyes are so wide open so much so to the point where it doesn’t matter what we think. In the end none of this this will not make anything, because in the end there will not be anything. Even the black holes will vanish. The carbon that is what everything everywhere possible won’t exist. Space will return to be a dark cold quite vacuum. Even time itself will not be necessary. Religion! Before you judge me or criticize me for what I know----become a seeker of truth outside the box. Listen or better yet research on the subject matter to the order from which one person believes. The truth is that every religion has a basis for its beliefs which can be con-screwed philosophically as possibly reasonably common sense lifestyle. Every religion has a good and wholesome intention, but we want it to mean more than it really needs to be. There’s roots in each and in circumstances they will agree. Man judge’s truth about your life and how we feel about it. The truth is that the bibliography has truthfully accepted by any other editors who have been using this article for years now that is what the facts are facts about what you think about what you do with this article about what you are doing for the truth about this subject matter. Can you make me one of those please please. Merry Christmas merry thanksgiving merry merry love and happy holidays and hope you have a great day. Please forgive my grammar, I might not as educated as you but I know my heart and I love you as well as I love myself in the mirror-

Maybe there should be a book called "Ancient Literary Motifs" including the Greek, Roman, Egyptian and Middle Eatsern sources literary sources and incudiong the Christian scriptures and writings. No claim that the Christian writings are borrowing just that they fit the well developed motifs.

truly a pity we can't get her books in any digital form, e-books or audio books....

When any other author quotes or references another text do they always make it obvious? There are shot for shot copies in many movies that never say clearly that they are doing it. Why would any writer of any book of the Bible need to specifically say, “I am quoting or paralleling Osiris now.” “I have switched to paralleling the Odyssey.”

Derek - have you noticed that there aren't a lot of formerly religious Christians who agree with Paula Fredrickson's ("pure as the driven snow") extremely sympathetic view of Paul? Seems to me that their reading of Paul is extremely superficial and fails completely to grasp the depth of anger and torment in his soul.

The Roman education system was based on the Greek system - and many of the private tutors in the Roman system were Greek slaves or freedmen. Education was very important to the Ancient Romans. The rich people in Ancient Rome put a great deal of faith in education. While the poor in Ancient Rome did not receive a formal education, many still learned to read and write. They were all educated It was typical for Roman children of wealthy families to receive their early education from private tutors. However, it was common for children of more humble means to be instructed in a primary school, traditionally known as a Ludus litterarius. Morgan, Teresa (1 March 2001). "Assessment in Roman Education". Assessment in Education: Principles, Policy & Practice. 8 (1): 11-24.

Was Matthew a discipline? As a tax collector, was he literate? Did he speak and write both Aramaic and Greek? As fisherman, Jesus's other disciplines how did they trade and sell their goods and know that they were getting a fair value for their goods?

Mind blown. This is perhaps the point in a tidal wave/tsunami where the water first recedes before the water rises and covers the land. So modern christianity is based on ancient literature which is based on people who were looking for morality, an explaination of reality plus mortality - either their own, or the end of the world.

Oof..she just glazed in that life expectancy is 24 years line. This is one of the more misunderstood concepts. We have dramtically low life expectancy in earlier periods not because life SPANS were that low but because infant mortality rates were so high that it skews the curve. Life SPAN was still roughly 60+ years. Less than today because of lack of modern dentistry, medicine and hygiene.. but life SPAN was never as low as 24 years. That is an average expectancy based on ALL mortality rates.

Beauty, youth, Perfect teeth, slender Brains, education, elocuent, classy, Funny, tech, Glamorous hair Outgoing, Sofisticated And she's into Paul, Impressive