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Evolution of a track-plan 

mpeterll
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This video documents the thought process behind a custom layout design for a client in Western New York.
The requirements were as follows:
HO-scale,
26’ x 21’4”, walled on 2 1/2 sides
At least 2 yards and two smaller switching towns
Intermodal yard along the 26’ wall
Engine terminal with old roundhouse and new diesel shop, but with steam servicing facilities removed
A passenger station (at the opposite end to the main freight facilities)
At least 4 staging tracks
Mostly double-track main line
Single track branch connecting the small towns and a logging area
Three big bridges in a formation reminiscent of Keddie Wye
A big canyon scene
Farmlands and a grain elevator
Timewarp: Most of layout must be set in 1990’s but with logging line still running geared steamers.
Ttarget proportions of 30% mountains, 20% rural and 50% cities & yards.
Interpretation of the above requirements:
Double track 1990’s mainline and intermodal yard tells me that I must allow for big 6-axle diesels with long strings of 89’ cars, meaning wide curves and the longest turnouts I can fit into the space.
To lessen the visual impact of the anachronistic nature of the branchline, I wanted to make sure it was kept well away from the main yard (shays and double-stacks in the same scene would be just plain wrong).
“Mostly” double track, suggests that a stretch of single track is desirable. This is perfect as the canyon and Keddie Wye scene can form the single-track portion.
For a busy double track main line, 4 staging tracks is woefully inadequate. I decided to include the biggest staging yard I could fit into the room.
Standards:
Primary main: 36” minimum radius
Secondary main: 34” minimum visible & 30”hidden
Branch line: 21” minimum radius
Easements on all curves
#8 mainline switches where possible, including ALL reverse-curve situations
#6 minimum for tight non-reverse-curve situations
#5 okay on branch line and industrial spurs
2.2% maximum mainline grade (2.6% on branch)
36” minimum aisles (42” along main yard)
20’ maximum train length on main line
All track components are Walthers code 83 (110 turnouts + 2 double slips)
The visible portion of the main-line route is about two and a half scale miles.
The branch line run is approximately one mile.
Total track length: 998 feet
The first vista seen by an approaching visitor is that of two cities separated by a swath of farmland. As one walks down the aisle and peers around the end of the double-sided backdrop, the innermost half of the layout is all mountain scenery, the highlight of which is the scene at the head of the peninsula. The scenery here can start at about knee-height and reach to the ceiling. Looking up the main canyon, the stream passes under three tall trestles and over a series of waterfalls. Half-way back is a representation of the famous Keddie wye, which follows the prototype arrangement fairly closely. The accompanying yard is entirely fictional however.
With most of the layout set in the 1980’s, pairs of modern high-powered six-axle diesels will head up most trains. A design length of 20’ for most through trains allows for 18 autoracks or 89’ TOFC flats, a stack train of approximately 25 cars, or a general merchandise freight of around 30 cars. This is long enough to make it difficult to see both ends of a train at the same time, thus allowing it to seem even longer. Most intermodal trains will need to be doubled over into two tracks at Banktop - an interesting and common prototype practice.
All through freights will start and end their runs in staging. Some will run non-stop over the route while others will pause in Banktop for consist changes. Additionally, the perishable nature of the produce packed at Weston would justify an eastbound through freight stopping to pick up a block of reefers (dropping off empties would be the job of a local freight however). Amtrak trains would also start and finish their runs in staging. Other than a brief stop at Weston, they will run non-stop over the remainder of the route.
Most main line local freights would operate out of Banktop and would typically be hauled by pairs of older four-axle diesels. One job could run as a turn to Keddie, interchanging cars with the shortline and keeping the paper mill supplied with pulpwood. Another could run to Weston, it’s main job being to service the grain elevator and supply empty reefers to the packing plant. A third local could start in Banktop, switch the yard at Keddie and then continue onto staging. Alternatively, if the logs from Woodsville are to head west and there is enough traffic to justify a whole train, the third local could start in staging and turn around at Keddie.
All through freight and passenger trains would use the primary main between Keddie and Weston, while local freights would use the secondary route. This adds a lot more operational interest than just treating it as a simple double-track loop.

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5 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 53   
@evileyeball
@evileyeball 3 года назад
One of the reasons I like your videos are you have a very nice soothing voice if I can say that,
@davidbarnett7145
@davidbarnett7145 3 года назад
Thank you for taking the time to show this wonderful layout. I have been watching you're videos for some time now and I really enjoyed them.
@Lancelot_Jago
@Lancelot_Jago 6 лет назад
I've been having a mpeterll feast this evening viewing (to me) new videos and old. I have also been taking note of the comments that are posted along with the intricacies and assumptions of the personal desires of said postees'. While I read these observations as both positive and negative critiques, I cant help but think of what my father said to me... "the way you do it is better than the way others don't." Thanks mpeterll and good luck with your endeavors. L
@bfurailroad1104
@bfurailroad1104 5 лет назад
"the way you do it is better than the way others don't." I like that a lot! Will be putting that on my page as my new slogan. Thanx Mister.
@rs6383
@rs6383 4 года назад
Very impressive layout. 👍 I am doing a much smaller version in a 11'4 x 12'9" room. I have the bench set up & getting some good idea's from your video starting with track layout Thank you for sharing. It is greatly appreciated.
@jhoodfysh
@jhoodfysh 2 года назад
Hello Peter, Thank you! I just found your channel while searching for resources to design an N-scale layout of the Camas Prairie Railroad which was situated in Idaho. I use 3rd Planit as well and your step by step description of your process is very useful. Good job!
@eugeniomarins2936
@eugeniomarins2936 4 года назад
Very interesting, really enjoyed the evolution of the project and the thoght process behind the choices. Thanks!
@coxsj
@coxsj 6 лет назад
3PI is a good choice. I've used it for many years. Nice plan. Thx for sharing.
@kyleharmer8047
@kyleharmer8047 6 лет назад
You have done a marvelous job on that layout design. Plenty of ideas for my own. And yes thoroughly enjoyed the video. Keep up the good work.
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 6 лет назад
Thanks for the compliments. Glad you found some ideas you could use. I have a couple more track planning stories I may upload sometime.
@jefflizotte4758
@jefflizotte4758 3 года назад
very nice,thank you for bringing me along.
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 3 года назад
You're welcome. There are many more similar videos on my channel. Enjoy them all.
@bobcooney1146
@bobcooney1146 4 года назад
Love it ! I've always wanted a large layout and I'm very impressed with your work and videos I Love Love Love your rock cutting video...
@cprtrain
@cprtrain 6 лет назад
Very well done. The secret is to get your curves to fit. Your minimum radius will dictate what will fit and where it will fit. I cut out curves and place them on my room drawing and move them to see where they can be located. Connecting the curves with tangent lines gives me an idea where my yards and junctions can fit. In the end, room size, minimum radius, minimum grade, aisle size, reach (you need to reach all track) will determine what you can do. In a room of this size, I would have built a multiple level layout using a helix. Three separate sceniced levels could easily fit in the room.
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 6 лет назад
Thanks for the comments. You don't need to cut out curve templates when using CAD. You can place as many electronic circles as you want and do the same thing - and I basically do the same as what you described. The specification was for only one scenic deck.
@megadeth1763
@megadeth1763 5 лет назад
mpeterll where could flex track fit in here with ?
@chazco
@chazco 6 лет назад
I am impressed. I only wish I had the space for something like that. Chuck
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 6 лет назад
Me too. I'd love a layout room like that, but I already have enough trouble getting time to work on my (much smaller) layout as it is - even more so now that I'm running two separate businesses (both are full-time jobs). The big plus with a smaller layout is that visible progress can be made with much less effort.
@mhbpodnk
@mhbpodnk 6 лет назад
Really nice track plan.keep up the good work and hope to see more of these
@jolliemark6294
@jolliemark6294 5 лет назад
I liked the plan a lot, it has a lot going for it, oh read your reply to Vinnie (bnsf6951) it's to bad the guy whose the other plan as you seemed to hit all the points the guy wanted, and in a tight space too....thanks for sharing....Jack
@keithhitchings8911
@keithhitchings8911 6 лет назад
superb as always
@dannyholt105
@dannyholt105 6 лет назад
Hi Peter! Very nice tutorial of the design process of a new layout! Sorry, but I have been dealing with some health issues and haven't made any progress with my layout. I did check out the 3RD Plan It software and I am planning on downloading the free version of it soon. At least then, I could send you sections of my layout to tweak. Cheers, Dan
@crazyfvck
@crazyfvck 4 года назад
Fascinating :)
@Wild-Dad
@Wild-Dad 6 лет назад
Now I see why you needed to pickup the newer “gaming” desk top tower. It will turn around your graphics considerably faster. I thought maybe that this was going to be “Brians’” layout but obviously it wasn’t. How will the client have access to that large staging/storage yard section under the layout? Is it considerably lower than the layout itself? Did the number of pairs of staging tracks get reduced in the end?
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 6 лет назад
With the grade profile I designed into the project, there is enough vertical separation to get one's upper body right in between the decks if necessary.
@Wild-Dad
@Wild-Dad 6 лет назад
mpeterll - ok, good luck. Hopefully we will see how this operates in the end.
@madtrain123
@madtrain123 4 года назад
mpeterll l
@ralphviola1508
@ralphviola1508 6 лет назад
Very good video, if you get the job I hope you plan on shooting. Videos as you build it
@giulius7176
@giulius7176 6 лет назад
Very interesting.... I also have 3rd plannit but don't really know how to use it....I would like to build a switching layout....
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 6 лет назад
Have a go with 3pi. Start by laying track as that's the easiest part. Then try adding all the other elements of a layout. I thought the learning curve was pretty easy compared with other design design software I have used.
@realmagicjon
@realmagicjon 5 лет назад
Thanks ,
@megadeth1763
@megadeth1763 5 лет назад
If you have done the displays showing sir..you are very talented and you are welcome at my house as I'm about to embark on a much $maller setup, great information !! Thank you !
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 5 лет назад
Thank-you for the comments. I designed this layout using a readily-available drawing package. No I did not build the actual layout. It was designed for a client who later decided he couldn't afford to have the layout built for him. I do layout design and construction to special order. If you are interested, check out my website superiormodelrailroads.com
@mpetersen6
@mpetersen6 4 года назад
Given the amount of time you put in on this I do hope you recieved at least some renumeration. Time is the most valuable thing we have
@phillipdawson8607
@phillipdawson8607 4 года назад
Nice job what would be the price to design something like this I can build just thinking fresh set of eyes and ideas before I start Thanks
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 4 года назад
If you are looking for a custom layout design or a critique of a design you already have, please contact me through my website: superiormodelrailroads.com
@Vman7757
@Vman7757 6 лет назад
Do you help design layouts for customers that want to do all the work?
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 6 лет назад
Yes, I can do a full layout design for you, or just help you to improve one you've already drawn. There is certainly no requirement to hire me to do any of the layout building for you. The best thing to do is contact me through my website superiormodelrailroads.com , tell me about your available space and what type of layout you hope to fit into it, and we can go from there.
@traink5423
@traink5423 6 лет назад
Looking to build a layout, what software are you using?
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 6 лет назад
I use 3rd-plan-it for all my layout design projects
@fredharvey5284
@fredharvey5284 6 лет назад
Also, you seem to be working with Affordable Model Railroads alot now. I have contacted the owner James for a bid on building some of my layout (I have also contacted a couple other companies for comparison). While I am not thrilled with your designs, I do like your scenery and I asked if I do hire them if I can request you do the scenery (assuming you won't throw me under the bus on a video if you don't like my ideas). He said you will be working for him full time shortly, but until then it would depend on your schedule, how do I get your schedule and when do you intend to start working full time for him?
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 6 лет назад
I'm in the middle of another layout build at the moment but should be done within a month. I've quit my regular job, and basically I am already working for James full time (but I'm still a self-employed sub-contractor rather than his employee). As for the move, that's going to depend on how soon I can sell my home.
@dacuzzz
@dacuzzz 6 лет назад
hi Peter.. very nice track plan & presentation... hope you get the job... vinny
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 6 лет назад
"get the job". I didn't even get the track plan accepted. The customer selected the other plan he had drawn by someone else. I had a brief look at the other plan and I don't like it at all - very cramped, very "toy-train" like, and not following the spec particularly closely. The designer crammed in 4 short peninsulas with a very long narrow serpentine aisle weaving in around them, 27" curves (no easements) jammed right up against the fascia, single track main line all the way and passing sidings in the 10-12' range. All the main curves were 90-degrees with the straights running parallel to the benchwork. The intermodal yard was stub-ended and about 4' long and the branchline was omitted entirely. The only advantage of the other plan that I could see is the lower cost of construction (straight benchwork sections, no dramatic scenery and half the track - he specifically asked for a "large" yard which the other plan didn't have). Please don't get the wrong idea. I don't care that my plan wasn't chosen. I'm just astounded at how poor the selected plan was - and it was drawn by someone who has been doing professional track-planning for years. I didn't even know there was another plan until after the fact.
@troybrodrick7208
@troybrodrick7208 6 лет назад
did you get the job so we can see it being built?
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 6 лет назад
No, he selected a different plan - a plan with much tighter curves and cramped aisles; single track and short passing sidings; without the "large yard" and "mostly double track main" he specifically asked for.
@troybrodrick7208
@troybrodrick7208 6 лет назад
don't make any sense
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 6 лет назад
No it doesn't. The design job was passed on to me by professional layout building company. I never spoke to the customer directly. The only thing I can think of is that I was given the other layout builder's interpretation of the customer's wants, rather than what he actually wanted.
@dougcostello9064
@dougcostello9064 6 лет назад
What is the cost of a layout this size?
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 6 лет назад
That’s a simple question, but one with a very complex answer. You may as well ask how much a 2000 square-foot house costs. New-York or Mississippi? City center or in the middle of nowhere? Ready to move in or in need of major work? Marble tile or dirt floors? Gated community or slum? The same applies to a professionally built model railroad. How much of the layout is to be done professionally? What level of finish? Does it include room preparation, or a lighting valance, or trains, or ongoing maintenance? What type of control system? Signaling system? Provision for nighttime operation? How many structures? Scratch-built or plastic kits? Plastic 25c trees or hand-crafted $10 trees? Where is it to be located? These considerations and hundreds of other factors will affect the cost. It’s no good just specifying “average” this and “typical” that, because one person’s idea of “average” or “typical” may be vastly different from another’s. Furthermore, one builder may bid four or five times as much as another if given an identical set of specs. That’s because some will do a much better job than others; some think their time is worth more than others; and some will deliberately low-ball the initial estimate in an underhanded attempt to get the job. If you are in the market for a professionally-built layout, you may need to come up with a budget and then ask what that will buy. It’s exactly the same when buying a house - the very first thing a realtor will ask you is “what’s your budget?”
@jgalexander510
@jgalexander510 4 года назад
mpeterll I appreciated that detailed response. Given your parameters, perhaps a more specific question is in order? How much would it cost for the materials to build the bench work, and to purchase the track/turnouts (without the cost of switch machines), foam, glue, and whatever other basic building materials to get the track plan built, minus scenery, trains, electronics, etc. Thanks, Josh
@fredharvey5284
@fredharvey5284 6 лет назад
Don't feel too bad, in the end most times cost is the overriding factor. It would have been nice if you could have put up the other drawing they gave you so we could see the differences. I do agree with Brent, too much track and also I personally don't like access hatches so the 8 foot wide peninsula would not work for me and the yard takes up almost half the layout which I think is overwhelming. I can see how people into operations would like this....PS a 90' turntable won't fit a DD40 as it is 98 feet long unless you don't mind the overhang but you seem to despise these sort of compromises in your modeling.
@mpeterll
@mpeterll 6 лет назад
Sorry, but I never had possession of the other drawing. I only saw it briefly on a computer screen. I followed the specs I was given exactly. I was told the customer wanted a large yard along the 26' wall. The other design had only tiny yards, suitable for very short trains. Of course, 'large' and 'small' are very subjective - maybe a 5-track yard about six feet long is 'large' to some people. I was told that most of the main line should be double track (there was no double track on the other plan). I don't favor access hatches either, but when only needed for construction and occasional maintenance, they're not too bad. The hatch on the peninsula could have been avoided by bending the backdrop around in a teardrop shape, but this would have ruined the spectacular scenic possibilities of the signature scene. The hatch behind the engine terminal could simply have been left open, but the "brick canyon" possibilities in this area were too tempting to forgo when I drew that section. I was not aware of the length of a DD40, so thank-you for educating me. On a commercial layout build, economic considerations dictate that a ready-to-install turntable be used instead of a scratchbuilt one, leaving the choices at 90' or 130'. The 130' version with a 6-stall roundhouse would have used up too much space (the other designer evidently thought so as well). If the customer were ever to get a DD40 and didn't like the overhang, he could just park it in the diesel house instead.
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