Ex-FLDS Reaction to "Keep Sweet, Pray & Obey" - Part 4 Finale 

(Melissa) Aww thank you so much! =)

His big smile at her when he looks at her in the intro. Love them. Also love how as they are each talking they look and pay attention to each other. So genuine!

They are adorable!

I always skip that part out of annoyed jealousy lol they're so lucky

​@@TheBeatlesRoooockme too. Me too

Thank you so much.

@Treble Trouble I apologize that my statement made it sound like I viewed Naomi as 100% victim. As I said she was and is very culpable for what she did, but I do stand by the fact that she was brainwashed and from her interview, I do not believe she has completely deconstructed. She did not come across as a woman who has eliminated her past beliefs. Of course you could just believe she is such a good liar, but tbh I don't have enough emotional space to look at someone so unrelated to my life with that much suspicion. She could have just kept quiet as she has til now, so why speak at all if she is that concerned about legal troubles or lying. My comment was based on my experience and my opinions tho. When I was in an abusive relationship, I did things that I would never have done if I wasn't under the undue influence of someone who I thought loved me and who had physical and psychological power over me. I feel deep shame over some of the things that I did and ask myself constantly why I wasn't strong enough to do the right thing during that time. If you never had to experience that type of situation, I am honestly, grateful. No one should face that type of abuse.. I never did anything close to the crimes and immoral things that Naomi did, but I do empathize with her. I truly believe that, for me, being a good person means that I do my best to empathize with everyone, even murderers. I think its a mark of emotional growth and maturity to be able to view people as multifaceted beings who I can empathize with for the trauma they faced AND hold them accountable for the things they have done wrong. Black and white thinking is quickest way to allow hate into your life. I hesitate to get into the hidden misogyny in your response, but I am going to mention it in case you aren't aware of how your response comes across. It almost sounds like you are treating Naomi like Eve tricking Adam into original sin, which almost sounds like you hold her more accountable for the abuse than Warren. Examples: she was cheating on Rulon, she helped Warren get power, she wore gentile clothes, she spoke about sex with her sister wife. Idk what was normal conversation between flds wives and I understand that those things were scandalous in that culture, but Warren and his other handlers also wore regular clothes so I'm not sure why that bothers you so much about Naomi. Also, how do any of us know if she cheated on Rulon? Because one of her sister wives said so? Why is she to be believed if she is making money off gossip? I personally don't care she makes her money that way but the hypocrisy is deafening🤭. Idk if you are currently in a high demand, patriarchal group, then it may be scandalous to you, but if you aren't currently in that type of group, then it might be worth exploring why you feel so much disgust for Naomi, but can speak of abusers like Warren and Rulon without that same disgust. And finally, even if Naomi is some psychopath, born evil (which I do not believe happens) and was the catalyst behind the whole awful situation, it is not my place to be judge and jury over her. I am not Christian, but Jesus was right about one thing, don't judge others lest ye be judged. No one is perfect. Should she face legal repercussions, it isn't for me to decide. I imagine if they could have charged her, they would have. On a legal note, I doubt they could convict her because of the level on undue influence a cult leader has even in his favorite wife, so why force her sister to relive that trauma if the state knows they would not likely win the case?

@@starrynyte158 great response and I believe you're right about Naomi. Warren Jeffs was absolutely the mastermind behind all of this and he used his power and wealth to achieve it. Long before Naomi came around he was working his way up the ladder and fine tuning his techniques of abuse, deception, and manipulation. One of the striking things Naomi talked about was when Warren Jeffs showed her the pornography. What's striking is that Rachel Jeffs ( warren daughter) talks about her sexual abuse at the hands of warren and how he would show her pornography and then later have her engage in what she saw. It's just very striking for many reasons.

Our pleasure!

You two are awesome

After he got out of jail him and his 3 remaining wives joined the Kingston group/The Order....he died of Covid and his wives were remarried.

Thanks!

Maybe it's their method of denial, in the sense that they did not witness the weddings and so they did not see it. They noticed and they knew, but they did not see. My guess is it's a play on lexical semantics, but what do I know...

Thank you so much Diane!

(Melissa) Aww thank you =)

M- That's a great point. I think it's because they would have had to find evidence first before arresting an adult. Taking children can happen just under suspicion...just my guess.

@@GrowingUpinPolygamy it’s fascinating that our laws allow for children to be taken away under suspicion but not adults.

Not to mention her comments about - well, she was mature and wanted to be married. Yeah, no.

Just dug this up, Warren recorded this in his priesthood records about Janet's labor struggles and directly names Sally, her mother. “All through the afternoon and evening I was in contact with R17, having the report as I called there that Janet Jessop, Raymond Jessop’s wife, was struggling. She had been in labor for three days. Sally Nielsen, Wendell’s wife, has been appointed of the Lord to be the midwife to help deliver the babies. She is a woman that the Lord has blessed with a natural gift to work with expecting mothers, but she has taken on a doubt and fear against herself. In my conversation in the afternoon with Brother Wendell, Sally had feared and turned to Doctor Lloyd Barlow to make the decisions. I detected that. The Lord showed me this is one reason they were having such difficulty, because they didn’t turn to the Lord, they turned to the doctor. But the doctor had turned to the Lord, and that was a blessing. So all through Friday, I was yearning unto the Lord, even offering myself as an atonement for her to be blessed and deliver the child. I knew that the girl being sixteen years old, if she went to the hospital, they could put Raymond Jessop in jeopardy of prosecution as the government is looking for any reason to come against us there. I last called at 11:30 p.m. and told them I was praying for them. The Lord assured me that she would bring forth a little girl, but He would give them experience.” “Uncle Merril made note that Sister Janet, wife of Brother Ray had been in labor for two to three days and was having a very difficult time. The Prophet had Uncle Wendell, Uncle Merril, and Brother Ray join in a prayer circle for her. The Prophet…told those attending that, because of her age and the associated government pressures against the Prophet and those who abide the laws of God, going to the hospital was not an option…Sister Sally W. Nielsen, Dr. Lloyd, and nurse Sarah Jessop were attending.”

Wow! Thank you so much for sharing so much insight!

I still can’t believe Oprah gave them such a huge platform to spread their lies. They interviewed Elisa before the raid and knew the type of treatment she endured! For them to take the side of the FLDS without any question was awful. They even interviewed the midwife to many of the underaged girls and took her lies of “never seeing an underaged marriage” as fact! 😡 they could have at least brought in Elisa to check if the people they were talking too were actually telling the truth! While I don’t agree with how they took every child off the compound, they did have evidence that children were being abused! I don’t know what they could have done differently in the case because there was a risk to every child on that compound with Warren Jeffs as their leader.

The sad thing was, Alicia had been separated from her children even longer than that. She was part of a lawsuit filed against Warren and said this: "On September 27, 2003, Alicia gave birth to her daughter R.R. in Short Creek. Then in February of 2005, LeRoy Jeffs returned from a long absence with orders from Defendant Jeffs, who was now the Prophet, instructing her that the Prophet did not consider her qualified to be a mother and that she had to give R.R. away. LeRoy then took R.R. against Alicia’s will and, without further explanation as to where R.R. was going or why, disappeared. Alicia, sickened and distressed over the loss of R.R. and her disqualification to be a mother, was ordered to move to Mesquite, Nevada. At the time, she was nearly 6 months pregnant with her second daughter, R.R." It went to say that after LeRoy got kicked out, she was reassigned to his brother Seth and while her oldest daughter was moved into the house, Alicia wasn't allowed any contact with her. And after Seth came back from his own reprimand, he separated Alicia from her younger daughter too. I just feel so bad for her.

@@piratesswoop725 that makes me sick. In THAT culture a women’s only worth is being a mother and caregiver. To imagine that these women grow up dreaming of the day they will become a mother and then even if they’re married to someone terrible most of them are glad for children. Then to have your only purpose and happiness just ripped away from you without any explanation and without knowing if your children are safe or who they’re with, it’s absolutely cruel!

Thank you

I believe you're correct. That 12 year old was also her sister. She refuses to deal with any guilt and trauma that she has regarding r@pe and underage marriage. She's ready to and has confronted herself about the easier less traumatic things she's done and admitted to it. Such as aiding and abetting warren. However she refuses to talk and shuts down whenever she's confronted with anything to do with Warren's heavenly sessions or underage marriages.

The YFZ raid is largely considered a failure of epic proportions, just like the original Short Creek raid - just because it was largely abandoned out of fear, doesn't make it a win.. The fact that the warrant alone was executed thanks to a false call immediately set up any charges to be thrown out, due to a violation of Fourth Amendment Rights. Were there some wins? Yup. But the way it was handled, and the way those women and children were warehoused only caused a further doubling down. That's not 'unfortunate', that's crappy planning and execution (law enforcement didn't even give those who'd lived in the community and left the time of day on best practices until it was too late), and no matter how we feel about the FLDS, they have the exact right to the same Constitutional protection that anyone else on US soil does, by LAW.

They knew exactly what they were getting into. They already raided Short Creek and removed over 260 children in 1953 and arrested their parents. They kept those kids in state custody for over two years. CPS and the state knew well of this previous raid and what would be involved. They didn’t go in blind. What they didn’t anticipate was the public backlash by MSM and social media. That’s what overwhelmed them, not the actions of the raid.

@@pansprayers pedophiles shouldn’t have any rights when children can be saved instead!

@@fehyndana7725exactly! Religious beliefs do not override the safety of the children

Amen.

I agree, Naomie is definitely an accomplice. Merrianne wasn't even the only sister she "trained" either--her youngest full sister, Ida, married Warren at 13, and she was present at the marriage of Veda Keate, another of Warren's underage wives.

Thanks!

@@GrowingUpinPolygamy I'm pretty sure Prey and Obey also has the answer as to who made the false report to they police and why she did it. That book is good overall and I highly recommend it.

M- It is absolutely sickening what was done. The children were definitely groomed to ignore that it felt wrong and that is what we meant when we said that they believed r*pe was ok because Warren said so. It isn't that they feel that r*pe is ok, it is that they have been groomed to believe that what was happening wasn't r*pe at all.

@@GrowingUpinPolygamy My heart hurts for these women and children. 💔❤️‍🩹 the men too God bless the men!

We will look her up and try to reach out! Thank you for the great recommendations. The interview with Eskel was awesome, and we can't wait to share it next week. =)

What happened to her family as she testified in court.

So interesting. Thank you so much for sharing!

Thank you! I always thought that Flora Jessup was the one who called. That was because she’s a badassed advocate for the women and found out her sisters were there.

@@herminadepagan3407 Flora actually received some of the calls from “Sarah” during the investigation and advocated that the Eldorado police investigate. The callers identity was confirmed as a woman named Rozita Swinton, who had previously been arrested for similar reports.

Has Warren Jeffs been the only one found culpable of the multiple crimes, or have other adults been convicted for abuse, trafficking, etc?

@@jillcombs9749 there were 12 FLDS leaders charged with various crimes related to the CSA and polygamy on the ranch, most of whom plead “no contest” to their charges, and were found subsequently guilty by juries. You can find the information if you do enough googling. The media was calling them the “dirty dozen”.

Amen! Or recorded.

She kind of did--it was a woman in Colorado named Rozita Swinton. She had a history of making these kinds of calls and I think it was determined she suffered from a mental illness. Hoax or not though, it definitely broke this whole thing wide open and I'm glad it happened.

She saved others!

Thank you so much!

M- No he was not.

@@GrowingUpinPolygamy thank you for answering my question.

This is exactly what I thought of when I learned about the FLDS temple sessions.

Definitely a top tv show. I just finished all 5 seasons recently for probably the 4th time. Worth a watch!

Oh ps also, I think Melissa would have some really interesting views on the show too, having married a former FLDS guy and been LDS. Just wanted to make that clear if it wasn't in my original post haha

I asked this question previously….and how they plan to raise their children.

(Melissa) We are slowly becoming more comfortable with these topics and may vocalize them a little more. The honest answer is that we are still in the middle of our journey and don't know exactly where we are going to end up. We have become comfortable with saying that we "don't know" which has moved us to a more agnostic mindset, but we haven't really announced where we are with our beliefs because we want to have the freedom to continue to change and shift our beliefs without judgment. =)

@@GrowingUpinPolygamy it can take A Long time!! I consider myself pretty much a strictly bible believing Christian ( not pentecostal, Lutheran etc. Hilsong and bethel are garbage) who goes to a church where we crack open the bible every sunday.I grew up culturaly and religiously Mennonite. There are things I am proud of ie: a second language, knowing who some of my second cousins are. But some things make no sense but may have 2 hundred years ago ie: style of dress ( sound familiar??) And some still drive horse and buggy ( not in Canada or US that I know of) or fear/ or not wanting to follow government rules like school ( again sound familiar?) For example. So i was a very confused teenager who was too outgoing for Mennonite life where even though i didn't grow up with the examples above they were all around me. And worst of all.. not showing my emotions 😕 couldn't deal with that. In that way i was the black sheep. I now live the farthest away. 9hours! End of story... again take your time.

@@ANNEWHETSTONE very interesting upbringing. I’m in southern IN and we have a fairly large Old Order Amish and Mennonite community nearby

(Melissa) Thank you so much! You just made my whole day!

I am a mother to a 3 yr old son, Luke. You are a awesome wonderful mother to look up to!

Yes, I would love for them to watch Prophet's Prey! They play a much more damning version of the audio, it was super difficult to listen to.

We will put both of those on the list! =)

The A&E Prophet of Evil documentary also has more interviews with former FLDS members including Warren’s daughter Rachel Jeffs and Elissa Wall. Might also be a good addition to the list.

@Treble Trouble thank you for the information :)