Examining The Croquet Kid Schoolhouse! 

Small wood houses were sometimes built with used lumber from shipping crates that were carried on trains or even the train box cars,My great great uncle lived in northern texas and his house/barn were both built using lumber from 2 or 3 damaged box cars that came from the railway going thru texas...nobody actually 'ordered' boards or planks from a sawmill in places where adobe was the norm,But if you could find a source of used lumber,cheap..some people would build wood houses,Nothing fancy or multi story but small,comfy and plane..usually wherever the boards or planks came from would dictate the size and shape of the house

You made an excellent case for disputing the alleged location depicted in the photo.

I don't believe this is the location for the photo, based primarily on the hill ridge(s) behind the image, especially the right side behind the trees. The person that is believed to be Billy, while the photo is from some distance is compelling. Keep up the awesome work Mike, appreciate your passion.

Thanks Michael and contributors, this is great info and analysis. 😊

Hi Michael, fantastic research so interesting , great effort thank you

I've always thought that the building sat on John Chisums land. In the documentary about the photo they went to the spot where the building sat and the foundation rocks were still there

Hey MAG, congrats on the 3000 sub. Way to go, buddy. I have so many questions now after watching this video. I agree, though. Probably the Regulators but near Ft. Sumner. Many more questions though.

These are a pretty good group of commenters. Refreshing that there are only a few scoffers/didactic sorts. I think in these sorts of matters, that it’s important to remember that none of us have watched this area, constantly, for 150 years. Never a need to imply that anyone’s guess is invalid. Bravo to the many commentators that have remained open and respectful. Sadly, in regard to many Old West photos, this is a rare thing to see.

That woman who is suppose to be Paulita Maxwell looks like she is in her 40s, Paulita was a young teenager in 1878. The woman who is suppose to be Sallie Chisholm also looks older. Thanks for having another look at this photo!

Hi Michael! I've never been a believer in this photo. I just felt something about it wasn't quite right! Glad to see you doing an in depth examination of it. The fact all the faces of the main players are so blurred doesn't help it's case in my opinion. Great show as always!👏👏👏👏

MAG, thanks for this presentation. Based on the information that you have found, it seems unlikely that the wooden school house was taken down after the croquet-Billy photo, so as not to appear in the survey, then rebuilt on the same site as the subsequent 1930s adobe building. I think that it makes sense that it's not the same location.

There were a few videos where a guy explained how they photoshopped it to make it LOOK like a tintype & he even went in & showed the shadowing in each edit the person made.He also showed the original pictures that was used for the faces. Unfortunately,I can no longer find the videos anymore.& The History channel originally aired the picture & backstory on a special & I remembered thinking,yeahhhh okayyyyy 🤣I trust the history channel about as much as any mainstream news outlets 🤣🤣Good day folks!

Great analysis Mags, I can't help notice the similarity of location of the croquet photo and the photo of Randy is holding, although the hill is higher in the background of Randy that could be the angle.....what does this prove besides nothing? that possibly Randy is standing in front of a building built in a similar location I guess, just an observation.🤠

I agree that the location has to be elsewhere. Great examination again.

I'm wondering if maybe it was in White Oaks or I think it's Tularosa that's close to Lincoln but closer to Roswell I think. Both of those towns are in small valleys like that appears to me to be in. Those trees may no necessarily be dead and gone either. If they still existed I would think it would be a little easier to locate that site....

Love your channel. Regarding Randy and Linda's photo, I am pretty sure, that is a stucco on wood frame building, not adobe. I have some background in both construction methods, and as a third generation New Mexican, i have lived in both types of homes through the years. Can Randy provide GPS coordinates. If so I'll go check it out. On the topic of John Miller, In two weeks, I intend to take a drive over to Miller Canyon and see if there is public access to the site of the old Miller homesite. Cheers!

I agree with your opinion about the location.

I swear it looks like a small patch of tire tracks just before the road ends on the upper side of the road,

The trail/dirt-road at the front of the photo looks as if it has tire tread patterns in it if you look closely.

Isn’t the photo turned backwards because the lady should be mounting the horse on the left side?

Hiya MAG I am eager to start reading Back to Billy and am wondering if you will be releasing them on Kindle as has been done with Empty Graves which is in my Kindle Library at this very moment. Thanks for a wonderful channel and keep up the excellent work! Regarding the Croquet photo: I think the one they claim is Tom O'Folliard must have had a really hot bath one day and shrunk in the wash as they say, considering Frank Coe described him as being over six foot tall! He is only slightly closer to the camera than Billy and they are both quite close to one another. So, if that be the young fellow Tom, then Billy must have been much taller than 5'7"! I'm no naysayer so I will give this photo the benefit of the doubt with Tom for it could be Tom, Tom Pickett.

Definitely not the same building. Croquet photo roof definitely has a steeper pitch. Unless, they changed rafters when they changed from shake to metal. Also, that's assuming they re-sided with Adobe. . They could have possibly repurposed the croquet building in 1935 if it were falling apart.....

I think it really could be him. Just incorrect location.

On the documentary weren't they looking at the comparison of the mountain range behind the cabin?

Thanks Michael, very interesting. This picture has been a thorn in my side since I saw it. I've spent hours upon hours looking at this through a magnifying glass, I have more questions about it than I've had cups of tea. First I agree with you, in my opinion, I don't think it's where Randy says it is. The building also looks like it's being held up with wire coming from a tree, and is that a moon that someone has painted amongst those branches on some kind of backdrop, the shadows are falling to the right, but there's a shadow of branches on the roof, if you look through the right window there seems to be very little depth through to the other side. It looks like it's been tampered with. Having said that, I think the people in the picture could well be who we think they are, true, faces are hard to make out, but the figure of the Kid resembles him, even with the same hat on from the authenticated pic, we can all make out its Bowdrie on the horse, there is a ringer for Sally in there too, and Tom., the key for me is there are too many similar in the same picture. By the way we don't know who is behind the camera do we, could those children belong to who is behind the shot. The child with hair missing, I think he has very blonde hair, I detect a fringe halfway down his forehead, I am pretty sure it's a he, all the girls have dresses on. In a nutshell I think it's a different place, picture may have been touched up, but I do think it could be the kid and some of the regulators. Just my opinion guys.

I thought the topography of the backdrop is the same as present day. Also, I thought there were remnants of the foundation of this home that sat there at one time. We have no idea how old the house is in the picture that Billy is in. Could it have burnt down? New Mexico has lightening storms all the time.

It is in Las Vegas, New Mexico ...

My cousin lives in the current jingle bob ranch house where you think Sally would be ,and that definitely not the topography of that property either.

They are like night and day. Nothing matches.

Sure doesn't look like the typical type of vegetation found around south central NM. not many places with that many deciduous trees mainly Pinion, or Ponderosa Pine. a few oak now and then but never that tall. Just doesn't look like NM. I may be wrong just a thought,

Who said its on tunstall ranch ? Randy ? He bought the pic in a flea market for 2 dollars ,,It could ve been taken anywhere in new mexico from ft sumner to lincoln theres many questions to b answered before it can b authenticated ! Hey question can you film billypalooza and sell the video for us that cant make it ??

Is there a real wanted poster of Billy out there

I'd question the time of your as well. Their lawn is definitely more well manicured than mine 🤣🤣🤣

??? Where do they say are when the couple has photi made in front if the House???

could have been burned to the ground, maybe lightening strike soon after it was built? New adobe built on same foundation site? building in croquet photo looks brand new, fancy windows and everything! School was in session when photo was taken? IDK

We had Parties in high school and we used to camp out in that house. It is private property no access.

It's pretty clear to me that the croquet picture was taken in Lincoln across the street from the Tunstall Store.

Wow...I never realized there was more to this picture...apparently all I've ever seen was a close-up of the guy pointing and "BTK".

So much quicker and easier than adobe.

Roof pitch is different

A nice basic examination. But really, the point about there being a problem with wood construction? Just look at all the trees around! These were tough Cowhands, who probably were skilled at constructing all manner of structures. Now, as to the many other problem issues-they are certainly fair to point out. I think it’s valid to think that they point to a different conclusion. So I would never criticize one’s opinion in that regard. But I also think there could be rational explanations for those difficulties. For instance, heavier clothes could be dawned on a cooler, end of Summer day, especially when windy, in the high desert. And it’s clear that evening was approaching, and perhaps there were plans to sit around a campfire, once the Sun went down. So the clothing could be rather more anticipatory in nature. But one big question-During what dates were the Surveyors operating at that specific part of the Ranch? If before early September, that could account for why the building isn’t included. That building could have been erected quickly, as the Amish have made famous doing, for example. It does look rather brand new. I also mention that perhaps Surveyors were coerced into 39:23 keeping their secret meeting place a secret!

Maybe if it is the pic is the back of it

It’s not Billy.

Wood buildings are known to burn down

Wasn't the original photo found and bought at an antique shop in fresno california?? Why do these people think the picture Wasn't taken in fresno County 1880?? These people are obviously very confused about geography and why do people really think this is the real Billy the kid anyway..

Some of the people in the group have been identified by facial recognition. Easy to do.

the two buildings have different pitch roofs. they are different buildings.

Hi all

I originally saw this on a 1-minute short video, ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VF5iZZnM1JI.html . If you find my comments there, I thought exactly the same thing - don't know if this is Billy the Kid, but it's not the same building. The short states that it is. According to that short, the sale of the photo has already been made, for $5_million.

I mean the hat the pose I mean maybe

Since it's African-American History Month: Which one of the Regulators that rode with Billy the Kid Kid was African-American?

That’s not the same building

Dont think its the same building. The roof pitch is not the same ,the building is not same size . Most definitely not in the same place. ITS NOT THE SAME!!!

What is looks like is that the building itself had been moved further from the lower hillside.

Would be funny if Billy the Kid and Dan Dietrich photo shopped it as an alibi while they did other things…

This is not of the kid, nor any of his friends. None in fact even look a like. And the provenance is lacking too. The only thing that is right is the time period, it is around 1880. It is a cool photo too. Not many other photos show a croquet game in the old west around 1880. Clearly worth a lot more than the $2 paid for it.

I want to believe I is really do, but it is photoshopped. I worked as an advanced user in photoshop every day for years, and it isn't easy to do this at all, but someone did. There are numerous things in the image that scream photoshop to me. There are videos on RU-vid to show you how we would do this.

Somehow you cannot put adobe atop of a wooden structure? Pfft

Identification of the building is irrelevant. It's a possible clue as to who could have been at a place that looks like a hundred other places all under the assumption that something that someone wrote about a group of people meeting up at a particular place and time might be accurate. The point is identifying one person. There's no body of facts or credible evidence here. Just conjectures, assumptions, opinions and theories of possibilities. And a second (or third) picture of Billy the Kid is a historical curiosity, not the Holy Grail. If that actually exists.